(Un)Official Pikachu Tier list discussion

[Tagxy]

So the first official tier list is out.
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=192028

Top
Metaknight
Snake
King DDD
Mr G&W
Falco
ROB

High
Marth
Wario
Lucario
DK
Diddy
Pikachu
IC
Kirby
Pit
Wolf

Middle
Toon Link
Olimar
Fox
Zelda
Zamus
Bowser
Luigi
Peach
Ike
Shiek

Low
Lucas
Ness
Mario
Pokemon Trainer
Samus
Yoshi
Sonic
Jigglypuff
Ganondorf
Link
Cptn. Falcon

Obviously even though theres been a lot of diliberation on this, it's still early in Brawl's lifetime so we can probably expect a lot of change. That, and the fact that there seems to be a lower amount of disparity between characters probably means this will get shifted around for a bit.

As for Pikachu, even though I wish he were ranked higher, after the pika melee experience I actually feel a bit relieved about where he is now, that he wasn't undervalued heavily, and think more or less he's been appropriately placed. That said, I think Pika moreso then most of the characters above and below him has a ton of unexplored potential and feel that he can definitely move up. But we need to work at it! And bring more people to the Pika cause. For some sad reason in spite of his potential most people tend to avoid pikachu, I think mainly because hes viewed as a spammy character, and we've missed out on a lot of growth that characters like falco, metaknight, DDD, and others have recieved. But in the meantime, lets do all we can to showoff all of pikachus tricks and techniques.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

Actually i have noticed a general spike in new pika users to the boards this past month, most not the noobish spamming kind. i have great hopes for pikas future. perhaps even........ MOVE UP THE TIER LIST?

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I actually think pikachu cannot move either up or down. He will stay 12th for the whole duration. The only character(s) i can POSSIBLY see going above him are pit and IC (12th is pretty ****ing good in my opinion)

 

[Anther]

Fortunately for pika he owns all the matchups above him ;p. So being 12th doesn't really matter in the end cause he pwnz the better chars.

And he pwnz the chars below him too.

 

[gallax]

its great cuz pika can wreck snake and DDD who are top tiers. GaW can be beaten. ROB and falco are hard matchups though. but other than that i think pika does have hope to move up more. i really do. the pika community is becoming more and more popular (and more experienced). who knows. someone could come out and revolutionize pika. it is relatively young but the fact is pika can seriously pown some of the characters above him.

 

[Spyckie]

lol @ marth being above pikachu... all I can think about is anther QACing around their heads...

 

[Peregrinus Falconidae]

Well I'm quite happy about Pikachu's placing, just not sure how he'd get higher than anyone there except Donkey Kong, I guess.

 

[therofl]

I think pika should be below marth but above wario.

If i could rearrange the high tier list i would do it like this

High
Marth
Pikachu
Wario
Pit
Lucario
Diddy
Kirby
Wolf
Toon Link
IC

that would make him 8th.

 

[Kitamerby]

I think pika should be below marth but above wario.

If i could rearrange the high tier list i would do it like this

High
Marth
Pikachu
Wario
Pit
Lucario
Diddy
Kirby
Wolf
Toon Link
IC

that would make him 8th.

Excuse me? Lucario's behind PIT why?


Pikachu's good, but he's not uber good like Marth. Honestly, his placing seems kinda generous, but I guess it's warranted.

 

[tha_carter]

He can easily be behind Wolf, Pit, Kirby and ICs. Im happy with his placement.

Although, i think its ridiculous to put lucario above pika.....
Pikachu is ALWAYS supposed to be the best pokemon! o_O

 

[therofl]

Excuse me? Lucario's behind PIT why?


Pikachu's good, but he's not uber good like Marth. Honestly, his placing seems kinda generous, but I guess it's warranted.

Pit's 5 jumps and far superior recovery makes him better than lucario. Furthermore, his arrows are more spammable than lucario's power orbs. Also im pretty sure pit has more priority than lucario

 

[neji32]

Always thought pikas owned DK. I fault some pretty tough DKs like Axelol but i have never lost to them with pika. As for diddy, hes neutral in my book. I think it should be
either
Pikachu
Diddy kong
Donkey kong

diddy kong
pikachu
donkey knog

or
pikachu
donkey kong
diddy kong

but i dont think pika is lower than dk. I would have ignored the tier list completely if IC were above pika.
As for everyone else, i can see them above pika



EDIT: i really want to fight D3. I have never fought one that looked top tier material. If anyone here is a good ddd please play me

 

[gallax]

yeah pika shouldnt be lower than DK. what i assume happened is that Dk can challenge MK better than most and has an even matchup with amrth. due to his heavier weight, better priority, and longer range he may have been seen as better. his cargo stage spike is pretty darn amazing though. i can see why he would have been placed higher. but i do not agree with it. pika has better matchups imo.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

The tier list isn't based on matchups (it somewhat is) so us saying "Oh pikachu can beat DK" doesn't mean that pikachu>DK. Dk has more range, is stronger, heavier, and really gay gimpy kills (cargo stage spike). The one thing that pika has over him is speed and comboability. DK has a lot of good matchups, as does pikachu.

 

[Anther]

I think he's just fine =]. He's in High tier so that means he's very win worthy/capable without getting ***** out of the game by certain drawbacks, and all of the characters around him are also capable of doing the same, but do it less likely than the ones in top. Seems good to me. ;B

 

[Van Jones]

HOOORRRAYYY. Wait, I just remembered that I don't care about the tier list. *Goes back to playing*

 

[Shy Guy 86]

You should be thaknful that he moved about 12 ranks above in the tourney results, otherwise he would be placed under TL.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

he only moved up 4 according to the post in the thread. recently pikas have been placing high.

 

[gallax]

thas because they are actually developed now. pika really takes skill to use. not like MK. now that we have actually learned we are doing better and showing what we can do.

 

[Pikaville]

I think his placing is right as of now.

He has potential to move up but it's going to require a more technical pika metagame.Im sure the better tech skill we all get will possibly see him moving up to 10th by the next tier list.He will supass the Kongs!

He's a pretty mindgame based character(IMO)with a little rhape factor on the side and he recovery is SO versatile.

 

[Tagxy]

I actually think pikachu cannot move either up or down. He will stay 12th for the whole duration. The only character(s) i can POSSIBLY see going above him are pit and IC (12th is pretty ****ing good in my opinion)

I can see him moving up if people actually pick him up. Even if more people have been playing with Pika lately i still rarely see people using him.

 

[Peregrinus Falconidae]

I can't see him over many of the other characters, and easily see some of those below him above him. I think that he could rise above Donkey Kong and perhaps even Wario, but as stated before, we wold need to improve Pika's technical game more for there to be any chance of that occurring. We must also improve, however, if we are to keep our placing. If we are even a little slack, we will easily drop rankings.

 

[Pikaville]

Well I win all the tournaments/fests here in Ireland using Pika(and the odd G&W/Marth as counters) so that could help boost his rank a tiny bit.Thats is to say if I was bothered gathering all the data and posting it.Plus the tournies are only around 20-30 people at most so the "points thing" the character would gain would be miniscule.

 

[Muhznit]

I KNEW IT, I KNEW FALCO WOULD BE PLACED LIKE THIS! Either I just suck as Pikachu or this explains why Falco tends to screw me over so badly...

 

[neji32]

I think he's just fine =]. He's in High tier so that means he's very win worthy/capable without getting ***** out of the game by certain drawbacks, and all of the characters around him are also capable of doing the same, but do it less likely than the ones in top. Seems good to me. ;B

we knew that with out tier list though

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I KNEW IT, I KNEW FALCO WOULD BE PLACED LIKE THIS! Either I just suck as Pikachu or this explains why Falco tends to screw me over so badly...

The tier list has nothing to do with how well you can do against a certain character. Yoshi is almost even with MK in the matchup, and yoshi is one of the worst and metaknight is the best...

 

[gallax]

if only yoshis CG produced more damage...

 

[Pikaville]

If only Yoshi had a black costume.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

If only Yoshi had a black costume.

That would be awesome, like the black yoshi from Yoshi's Story.

 

[Thunderbolt333]

peekachoo is fun chracter to play.Taunts are extreamly obnoxious and funny ^_^

 

[Roller]

Fortunately for pika he owns all the matchups above him ;p. So being 12th doesn't really matter in the end cause he pwnz the better chars.

And he pwnz the chars below him too.

Anther my friend, you make a persuasive argument. lol

SQUIRRELS FTW!

 

[Anther]

Thrlrlrlrlrlrlrlrlrr!!!

 

[Zylar]

Stupid fluctuating tiers

If tiers are ment to show the current metagame, then forget it because it'll change. If tiers are ment to show the ranking of characters from tourneys, better, but still (kinda) depends on the metagame, it's informing. Tiers are ment to show potential, potential is subjective to the person (Mostly a pika or non-pika player), and to the metagame anyways, so the tier is pointless.

Why can't it just be, "Oh, your a pikachu, lets see how good you are." instead of "Oh, your a pikachu, all pwn you with marth or somebody" The point is on the individual player. Low tier characters should never EVER be counted out, try your hardest no matter what tier they are.

he only moved up 4 according to the post in the thread. recently pikas have been placing high.

Pika will be kickbutt regardless of tier. So let the tier die already, who cares. And yes pikas will place high, because pi pika pikachu pika pi chu aahhh pika!!!

 

[Stealth Raptor]

lol looks like we got a new pika player for the boards :D. an overzealous one too O.o and yes tiers shouldnt influence you at all they are there for the knowledge of players.

 

[gallax]

wow...nice first post. i congradulate you.

 

[Veil2222]

Tiers are a collective representation of the characters overall ability, placement, ease of play, potential, and metagame. Not all of those are quantifiable, which is why experts have to collaborate to weigh each subject against the others for their overall influence on their placement. Tiers are a great reference for a lot of things, but they have nothing to do with player skill, specific matchups, and playstyle matchups. All of those variables are what go into determining the battle, and they have much more influence than tier does.

With that said, Pikachu does have some good matchups above him on the listing, meaning he has a lot of mobility in rankings depending on the outside variables involving matchup and skill. He ranks under some of his good matchups due to other variables within the subjects that go into determining tier, which attempts to give an overall ranking of how "good" the character is, void of player variables. This is why Pikachu has such upward mobility, he has good player/matchup variables outside of tier placement

So yeah. don't let tier misguide you on what's important, most people barely even know what tiers are or how to use them as a reference. Really most of what they're for is determining how hard it is to play a character at a competitive level, how high they can reach in placing, and how much practice it will take to be competitive with them.

Fortunately for most people here, Pikachu is well up there in placement, still has metagame findings to go, and he has plenty of mobility among his high tier peers.

 

[gallax]

yes. exactly. as the old captain would say from pirates of the carribean(if he were here). "Tiers are more like guidelines."