Umby
Smash Master
*** I need A LOT more input and feedback; so, I'll have to try and draw the whole community into this. As I list the many options in this thread, I will be listing the most viable as they have been proven either through testing or my own experience. If you believe something does not work, feel free to post about it. It will be discussed and I will update this thread accordingly. ***
Act I: General Theory
When I began playing Melee competitively, I only had my younger brother (decent at the basic game at the time) and CPUs to practice with. When I played in my first tournament, I got wrecked by everyone. Afterward, I went over to SleepyK and asked him to teach me Fox. One thing Sleepy pointed out to me was that I did the same things repeatedly, and that I needed to mix things up. Remember, mixing up relies on having numerous options available to you at any given time.
I've carried over that virtue into my Brawl playing style today, and it's evident in any video I'm in. My brain tells me something isn't working, and I find a new approach. I then quickly force myself to believe that strategy won't work either and change my tactics in the middle of the previous one. I'm mindgaming myself to play mindgames. Cool little concept, but it's a double edged sword.
I frequently mix things up, but ultimately, this can cost time and damage percentage. So, if you find something that works, spam it until it doesn't. You'll only "need" to mix up your moves against smarter opponents.
Now, effective mix ups rely on a couple of things:
Act II: Neutral Stance / Baiting
I use the term "neutral" very loosely. A still Sonic is a dead Sonic. So for now, we'll tie the concept of neutral to when you are distancing yourself from the opponent and luring him into a more comfortable area for you to operate in. Baiting will be used as a more offensive term in which you will be closing the distance to force an attack or approach. In this case you are looking to punish the opponents attacks or movements, start attack strings, and do damage.
I'll present Neutral Stance with a scenario:
Sonic vs Ice Climbers. You don't want to get grabbed. If you attempt to approach often, however, that grab is bound to be landed at some point in time. You can't just sit/run around on the other side of the stage an expect ICs to come at you out of boredom. So you draw them closer to your base of operations until you can setup a defensive at a closer range. That's obviously where baiting comes in. You have to get in closer and inch your way back into a defensive.
Neutral Stance Options:
The general idea here is to use your superior mobility to draw out the opponent's approach. General ground movement tricks often look like easy damage - Sonic's not running straight up to you and he doesn't have an attack thrown out. He's just over there doing some silly stuff. An opponent will generally think he's safe and has a good chance to land an attack. He's probably right unless you are progressively distancing yourself FROM the opponent. Using Spin Shot to accomplish this is a lot riskier and is more affiliated with actual baiting and offense, but I list it because it can get the job done in Neutral as well.
Mixing these options is pretty simple. You probably want to start off with just dashing around. Throw in some screech stops and some dash dances. From whatever position you're in at that point, you can Short Hop to avoid attacks and cancel any momentum you just had on the ground. It's basically your first panic button if you feel you're putting yourself too much at risk. Spring is the second panic button.
When you feel like mixing the timing, you can take to the air before you maneuver on the ground. Sonic's aerial speed is much lower than his ground speed, so slowing down in the air before you speed up on the ground is often a solid idea to get the opponent moving.
Baiting Options:
*All Neutral Stance Options are generally included with Baiting Options. Exclusive to baiting, though:
Similar concept as Neutral, except you want to start getting in the opponent's face and apply pressure. The reason Shield Dashing is included here and not Neutral is that if you have to Shield while dashing, you're getting too close for what counts as Neutral and you're looking to punish OoS. You'll also note that ASC (canceled) is the only Special option here (unless you count Spin Shot and Spring which are carried over from the Neutral Options). Once again, you are looking to force a reaction from the opponent and punish accordingly. You aren't going for a straight out offense here.
One of the keys here is to abuse your OoS options. Getting in close only takes a second, and it takes half that time for the opponent to get insecure about how close Sonic is. Even the most safe moves used out of panic are often easy to punish, so this should be your main goal strictly for racking up damage.
Because of the amount of movement involved with chaining the two processes, you have many options to choose from. Once again, it's best to choose what works. You'll only really need to change your tactics if the opponent catches on, but it's nice to keep the opponent on his feet. That in itself will restrict your opponents decisions on how to deal with your Sonic.
Act III: General Aerial Discussion
This is a very peculiar topic for Sonic indeed. Because the difference in his aerial speed as compared to his ground speed, he's not in the best possible state in the air, but his aerial acceleration and the properties of his attacks allow him to do some pretty tricky things. Sonic's aerial options are generally straightforward (SH Fair, ASC, VSDJ), so I won't bother listing them individually. Instead we can go straight into the meat of Sonic's aerial mixups and attack combinations:
Aerial Mixups:
In the options for VSDJ, I outlined the extensive uair -> Spring chain to emphasize how VSDJ gets you more height than your first jump so that you'll get more height with VSDJ -> DJ than just regularly double jumping. With this you can also "mix-up" the timing in which you would chase someone with a uair, Spring, or any aerial for that matter.
Act IV: Edgeguarding / Gimping / Recovery
Edgeguarding / Gimping
Because of Sonic's low aerial mobility, an opponent can generally read any straightforward gimping tactics you use. That's why it's important to know know just how many ways you can **** people off stage. This section will be a bit different. Since you'll only be using maybe a couple of options before you have to recover for yourself, listing what you can do will be pretty awkward without some sort of explanation.
*Aerials - You aren't really limited to just one or two of your aerials when you meet your opponent off stage. Even uair has a use or two. What you really want to be looking for is placement of these moves. If your opponent is recovering low, you want to either catch him during his second jump, or intimidate him so that he eats his second jump. You can accomplish this by either fast falling an aerial during that jump, or falling low and double jumping an aerial during their second jump. With Charizard and Pit, a similar tactic applies, but you have to be even more aware of Fly and arrows. There is really no need to chase after those hos from Dreamland. They all pretty much have an offensive advantage over you off stage. With Dedede, though, if you force his Super Dedede Jump, you could land a Spring -> Uair for a star KO (or at least extra damage) or a Homing Attack (I'm experimenting). You'll want to attempt this usually when he gets closer to the stage, however. In general, if you're looking for the gimp, FF Fair/ Double Fair and Dair (semispike) get the job done. Nair is cool too but to follow up with it for a true gimp, you may have to risk going REALLY low to follow up. That or the opponent has to be susceptible to Spring. If you're looking for the kill, time a back air. Uair is just a quick decision. The opponent is right under the ledge, so you can't really land a FF Fair, so just FF Uair. It's quick damage, might get a stage spike, and you still have a good amount of room to recover.
* Any Tilt - Dtilt and a downward tilted ftilt are decent options to reach over the ledge, often setting up for a FF Fair or FF Uair. I guess uair is somewhat useful if they're above you. The way Ftilt and Dtilt are disjointed make them viable for just standing there and edgeguarding (somewhat) but with utilt, you might want to surprise attack them out of a screech stop. Since the opponent is trying to land, you can look for an airdodge after utilt hits and punish accordingly. If you can eat up an opponent's jumps by doing that, it makes gimping that much easier. If not, once again - free damage.
* DSmash and USmash - Dsmash punishes spot dodges as the opponent tries to land from above. Run around, fake a Short Hop, land and charge it. None's the wiser. Play around with intimidation tactics that work best for you. You want them to fall right into it, so empty Short Hops or stopping in front of them are often decent ideas. Usmash is for when the opponent closes the distance from off stage to the ledge. The hitbox reaches out over the edge, so if the opponent didn't autograb the ledge, he probably got hit. Mostly for recoveries right above the stage.
* SDJ - Spin Dash Jump is a great way to make your presence known off stage. While keeping your double jump, you get more height and max air speed than a Full Hop. Combine that with the angle at which you are traveling through the air, and you can go to ******** lengths to end your opponent's life just a little earlier. Even if you don't land a hit off stage, just getting in the opponent's face can make them panic. If they do your work for you that's fine too, right?
* VSDJ - I believe this is underused in regards to edgeguarding (and probably underused in general. VSDJ can serve two simple purposes in edgeguarding. The first is situational, in that you can punish double jumped air dodges and create a weak wall at the edge. Think of usmash, except it's one weak hit that reaches further vertically. The other use is timing off stage aerials. VSDJ helps you reach high recoveries and sets up fast fallen aerials. When you're on stage, an opponent can predict the timing in when you're going to intercept them and throw out an aerial to cover themselves. You could always predict them and mix up your timing, but VSDJ makes that A LOT easier. While floating in the air, an opponent below has to guess when you're going to fast fall WHILE compensating for the distance both of you are already closing. Barring that, you also have your second jump as an extra tool for mixing up your timing. Keep that in mind.
* Aerial Spin Dash / Aerial Spin Charge - ASD is great for horizontal distance in the air, and Sonic's recovery means he can go far out of his way to hit opponents and still make it back (One reason why Recovery goes hand in hand with the rest of this section). You can also use the height from the hop combined with your Full or Short Hop and mix up the timing on close-to-ledge gimps. Uses for ASC for edgeguarding are not generally in my field of knowledge, so I'd like to see what the Sonic boards say about this.
* Homing Attack - Normally a bad idea unless you're gimping far from the stage (and even then...), but I'm recently finding that it might be a cool edgeguard on stage if you force Dedede to use all of his midair jumps. Knocks him out of Super Dedede Jump. This one's up for discussion too.
* Spring -
Mixing up your edgeguarding is all about timing. Do you want to go out to the blast line for a gimp? Do you want to eat up all of the opponent's jumps first? Maybe a last second aerial puts the opponent in a more disadvantaged position. In any case, I recommend experimenting with your Specials off stage. Spin Dash's peculiar animation and your aerial speed keep the opponent guessing as well as keep many of your aerial options available to you. VSDJ or SH Spin Dash from the stage also allows you to get considerable height without the use of your double jump. Truly a godsend.
Experiment. Experiment. Experiment. You can really go ape**** with Sonic off stage. Definitely don't be afraid to test the extent at which you can go out and hit someone.
Recovery
Not being able to auto grab the ledge with your Up-B can be a pain, but being able to attack out of it partially makes up for it. That being the case, you really have to make sure your recovery is unpunishable or at least unpredictable to make sure you get screwed.
Your options are pretty clear-cut on this one (Pretty much all your specials and your midair jump) so there's no reason in listing them. Just a general rule of thumb though:
"Homing Attack first. Homing Attack last."
If you're way out by the blast line, you can use HA to get the initial horizontal distance you need for a better-positioned recovery. After that, only use it as a last resort to close the remaining distance by locking on to your opponent. It can be pretty easy to misjudge just how low you already are when using HA, and you could end up too low to recover, even with Spring.
Using Spin Dash to meet your horizontal recovery needs will usually be sufficient enough to work well by itself. Because of the arc and the fact that you can still jump, you're already hard enough to intercept. However, using ASC after momentum canceling is preferable when you're in danger of being KO'd. FF Fair + ASC results in a sort of braking effect and allows you to live a bit longer. (Thanks infzy)
Spin Shot should not be used for long range recovery. Spin Dash gets you where you need to go WITHOUT wasting your midair jump. Occasionally you can recover high with it, if you're sure you can get back to solid ground, but otherwise save Spin Shooting for gimmick tactics like running off the edge and Spin Shooting back on.
A knowledgeable opponent will attempt to force Sonic to recover low so that he can grab gimp him out of Spring. If you're forced to recover low, there are a few things you can do to avoid this.
The first is simply to attack out of your Spring. If you're lucky or have good timing, you'll miss getting caught by Super Armor frames or at least cause enough shield stun to land on the ground before getting grabbed.
Your second option is to air dodge after Spring. Here your main goal is to land on the stage, period. The only possible flaw here is that the opponent may wait for the air dodge before grabbing. They might not even be looking for the grab at all, and instead opt for charging a smash.
Your last, non-stage exclusive resort is Homing Attack. This is merely a surprise attack for those who are waiting to (and adept at) intercept your recovery. A couple of examples of where you'd use HA as a last resort would be:
A) You are far enough below the stage to risk being cypher gimped.
B) You've Spin Dashed toward the stage (saving your second jump) and the opponent is looking to attack you OoS.
Keep in mind, you are still at risk of being punished when using HA as well as at risk of gimping yourself if the opponent is not in HA's range. Make SURE that your other options are NOT (or at least very unlikely to be) viable before resorting to HA. Too much can go wrong at the press of a button. Remember that when recovering, your main goal is to safely land on stage.
Act V: Landing Your Kill Moves
The first issue address when one inquires about Sonic regards his lack of kill moves. The truth is, there are a number of characters who have just as many options for killing as Sonic does. Sonic's real problem is reliably landing those kill moves. Bair is often stale from spacing and abuse (for a lot of players) and fsmash/dsmash just don't start quick enough to use OoS. So the question becomes, "How do I land Sonic's kill moves?"
First, let's bring down some information from the top of this thread:
Neutral Stance Options:
Baiting Options:
*All Neutral Stance Options are generally included with Baiting Options. Exclusive to baiting, though:
Aerial Mixups:
* Lists edited to omit non-killing options or moves that don't lead into those options.
For emphasis, even when regarding Sonic's kill moves, the idea is to bait a reaction from the opponent and punish them for that reaction. The lists above pretty much cover most of what you can do in that regard, but let's shift topics to what is not mentioned.
Sidestep/Air Dodge vs Charged Smashes
*Just a litte note: with the ideas presented here, of course they can apply to usmash (though with the lengthy duration of the move it can work without charging), but our aim is to kill here, so it will be omitted from the rest of the information given.*
When dealing with sidesteps and air dodges, the same idea applies in baiting the actual reaction. Some things that do that effectively (while leaving you in position to use a smash) are Bthrow, Uthrow, dashing, and double taking. Sonic causes fear through his ability to quickly follow up from his moves. However, he can be just as quick to run away and back in and still follow up. That is what generally forces dodges. In the case of opponents recovering above stage they could also air dodge expecting to be intercepted. Whether baiting the dodge or land camping a recovery, you can look for the dodge, and charge away. If you need a move convincing sleight, throw in some empty Short Hops every now and then.
SDR -> Bair
Bair and Platforms
Drop-through Bairs on platforms are solid options for opponents on or below the platform. It can be a quick, strong surprise attack from a defensive position. You could also SDJ/VSDJ to push them off the platform. A missed tech from there could net you a free Bair if you fast fall it quick enough. If not you can always read the wake up.
Star KOs/Anthinus Combo
I need help on this one, guys.
Act I: General Theory
When I began playing Melee competitively, I only had my younger brother (decent at the basic game at the time) and CPUs to practice with. When I played in my first tournament, I got wrecked by everyone. Afterward, I went over to SleepyK and asked him to teach me Fox. One thing Sleepy pointed out to me was that I did the same things repeatedly, and that I needed to mix things up. Remember, mixing up relies on having numerous options available to you at any given time.
I've carried over that virtue into my Brawl playing style today, and it's evident in any video I'm in. My brain tells me something isn't working, and I find a new approach. I then quickly force myself to believe that strategy won't work either and change my tactics in the middle of the previous one. I'm mindgaming myself to play mindgames. Cool little concept, but it's a double edged sword.
I frequently mix things up, but ultimately, this can cost time and damage percentage. So, if you find something that works, spam it until it doesn't. You'll only "need" to mix up your moves against smarter opponents.
Now, effective mix ups rely on a couple of things:
- Having numerous options available to you at any given time.
- The opponent looking for an option different from the one you are currently using.
Act II: Neutral Stance / Baiting
I use the term "neutral" very loosely. A still Sonic is a dead Sonic. So for now, we'll tie the concept of neutral to when you are distancing yourself from the opponent and luring him into a more comfortable area for you to operate in. Baiting will be used as a more offensive term in which you will be closing the distance to force an attack or approach. In this case you are looking to punish the opponents attacks or movements, start attack strings, and do damage.
I'll present Neutral Stance with a scenario:
Sonic vs Ice Climbers. You don't want to get grabbed. If you attempt to approach often, however, that grab is bound to be landed at some point in time. You can't just sit/run around on the other side of the stage an expect ICs to come at you out of boredom. So you draw them closer to your base of operations until you can setup a defensive at a closer range. That's obviously where baiting comes in. You have to get in closer and inch your way back into a defensive.
Neutral Stance Options:
- Dash Dance Pivot
- Normal Dashing (Back and Forth)
- Foxtrotting (Back and Forth)
- Dash In -> Short Hop Out
- Short Hop In -> Dash Out
- Short Hop In -> Short Hop Out
- Spin Shot In -> Dash Out
- Spin Shot In -> Spring
The general idea here is to use your superior mobility to draw out the opponent's approach. General ground movement tricks often look like easy damage - Sonic's not running straight up to you and he doesn't have an attack thrown out. He's just over there doing some silly stuff. An opponent will generally think he's safe and has a good chance to land an attack. He's probably right unless you are progressively distancing yourself FROM the opponent. Using Spin Shot to accomplish this is a lot riskier and is more affiliated with actual baiting and offense, but I list it because it can get the job done in Neutral as well.
Mixing these options is pretty simple. You probably want to start off with just dashing around. Throw in some screech stops and some dash dances. From whatever position you're in at that point, you can Short Hop to avoid attacks and cancel any momentum you just had on the ground. It's basically your first panic button if you feel you're putting yourself too much at risk. Spring is the second panic button.
When you feel like mixing the timing, you can take to the air before you maneuver on the ground. Sonic's aerial speed is much lower than his ground speed, so slowing down in the air before you speed up on the ground is often a solid idea to get the opponent moving.
Baiting Options:
*All Neutral Stance Options are generally included with Baiting Options. Exclusive to baiting, though:
- Shield Dashing (Back and Forth)
- ASC Canceling
- Dash -> Screech Stop
- Any ground attack
- Dash -> Pivot -> Fsmash/Ftilt/Dsmash
- Foxtrot -> Stutter Step Fsmash/Retreating Stutter Step Fsmash
- Foxtrot -> Delayed Dash Attack
- Foxtrot -> Delayed DACUS/Hyphen Smash
- Dash In -> Short Hop in place
- Any ground attack
Similar concept as Neutral, except you want to start getting in the opponent's face and apply pressure. The reason Shield Dashing is included here and not Neutral is that if you have to Shield while dashing, you're getting too close for what counts as Neutral and you're looking to punish OoS. You'll also note that ASC (canceled) is the only Special option here (unless you count Spin Shot and Spring which are carried over from the Neutral Options). Once again, you are looking to force a reaction from the opponent and punish accordingly. You aren't going for a straight out offense here.
One of the keys here is to abuse your OoS options. Getting in close only takes a second, and it takes half that time for the opponent to get insecure about how close Sonic is. Even the most safe moves used out of panic are often easy to punish, so this should be your main goal strictly for racking up damage.
Because of the amount of movement involved with chaining the two processes, you have many options to choose from. Once again, it's best to choose what works. You'll only really need to change your tactics if the opponent catches on, but it's nice to keep the opponent on his feet. That in itself will restrict your opponents decisions on how to deal with your Sonic.
Act III: General Aerial Discussion
This is a very peculiar topic for Sonic indeed. Because the difference in his aerial speed as compared to his ground speed, he's not in the best possible state in the air, but his aerial acceleration and the properties of his attacks allow him to do some pretty tricky things. Sonic's aerial options are generally straightforward (SH Fair, ASC, VSDJ), so I won't bother listing them individually. Instead we can go straight into the meat of Sonic's aerial mixups and attack combinations:
Aerial Mixups:
- SH Fair / Retreating Fair
- DJ Fair / Retreating Fair
- FF Nair
- FF Bair
- ASC
- Spring
- DJ Nair
- FF Nair
- FF Bair
- ASC
- Spring
- DJ ASC
- Nair
- Bair
- Spring
- ASD
- DJ Fair / Retreating Fair
- SH Bair (No Fast fall) / Retreating Bair
- SH Nair
- SH Uair
- VSDJ
- Bair / DJ
BrownyBair - Nair / FF Nair
- Fair (Aerial Chase or on VSDJ Hit)
- Uair
- DJ Uair
- Spring / DJ Spring
- DJ Uair
- Spring
- DJ Spring
- Bair / DJ
- ASC
- DJ Any Aerial
- DJ Spring
- DJ ASC
- Spin Shot
- Any Aerial
- Spring
In the options for VSDJ, I outlined the extensive uair -> Spring chain to emphasize how VSDJ gets you more height than your first jump so that you'll get more height with VSDJ -> DJ than just regularly double jumping. With this you can also "mix-up" the timing in which you would chase someone with a uair, Spring, or any aerial for that matter.
Act IV: Edgeguarding / Gimping / Recovery
Edgeguarding / Gimping
Because of Sonic's low aerial mobility, an opponent can generally read any straightforward gimping tactics you use. That's why it's important to know know just how many ways you can **** people off stage. This section will be a bit different. Since you'll only be using maybe a couple of options before you have to recover for yourself, listing what you can do will be pretty awkward without some sort of explanation.
*Aerials - You aren't really limited to just one or two of your aerials when you meet your opponent off stage. Even uair has a use or two. What you really want to be looking for is placement of these moves. If your opponent is recovering low, you want to either catch him during his second jump, or intimidate him so that he eats his second jump. You can accomplish this by either fast falling an aerial during that jump, or falling low and double jumping an aerial during their second jump. With Charizard and Pit, a similar tactic applies, but you have to be even more aware of Fly and arrows. There is really no need to chase after those hos from Dreamland. They all pretty much have an offensive advantage over you off stage. With Dedede, though, if you force his Super Dedede Jump, you could land a Spring -> Uair for a star KO (or at least extra damage) or a Homing Attack (I'm experimenting). You'll want to attempt this usually when he gets closer to the stage, however. In general, if you're looking for the gimp, FF Fair/ Double Fair and Dair (semispike) get the job done. Nair is cool too but to follow up with it for a true gimp, you may have to risk going REALLY low to follow up. That or the opponent has to be susceptible to Spring. If you're looking for the kill, time a back air. Uair is just a quick decision. The opponent is right under the ledge, so you can't really land a FF Fair, so just FF Uair. It's quick damage, might get a stage spike, and you still have a good amount of room to recover.
* Any Tilt - Dtilt and a downward tilted ftilt are decent options to reach over the ledge, often setting up for a FF Fair or FF Uair. I guess uair is somewhat useful if they're above you. The way Ftilt and Dtilt are disjointed make them viable for just standing there and edgeguarding (somewhat) but with utilt, you might want to surprise attack them out of a screech stop. Since the opponent is trying to land, you can look for an airdodge after utilt hits and punish accordingly. If you can eat up an opponent's jumps by doing that, it makes gimping that much easier. If not, once again - free damage.
* DSmash and USmash - Dsmash punishes spot dodges as the opponent tries to land from above. Run around, fake a Short Hop, land and charge it. None's the wiser. Play around with intimidation tactics that work best for you. You want them to fall right into it, so empty Short Hops or stopping in front of them are often decent ideas. Usmash is for when the opponent closes the distance from off stage to the ledge. The hitbox reaches out over the edge, so if the opponent didn't autograb the ledge, he probably got hit. Mostly for recoveries right above the stage.
* SDJ - Spin Dash Jump is a great way to make your presence known off stage. While keeping your double jump, you get more height and max air speed than a Full Hop. Combine that with the angle at which you are traveling through the air, and you can go to ******** lengths to end your opponent's life just a little earlier. Even if you don't land a hit off stage, just getting in the opponent's face can make them panic. If they do your work for you that's fine too, right?
* VSDJ - I believe this is underused in regards to edgeguarding (and probably underused in general. VSDJ can serve two simple purposes in edgeguarding. The first is situational, in that you can punish double jumped air dodges and create a weak wall at the edge. Think of usmash, except it's one weak hit that reaches further vertically. The other use is timing off stage aerials. VSDJ helps you reach high recoveries and sets up fast fallen aerials. When you're on stage, an opponent can predict the timing in when you're going to intercept them and throw out an aerial to cover themselves. You could always predict them and mix up your timing, but VSDJ makes that A LOT easier. While floating in the air, an opponent below has to guess when you're going to fast fall WHILE compensating for the distance both of you are already closing. Barring that, you also have your second jump as an extra tool for mixing up your timing. Keep that in mind.
* Aerial Spin Dash / Aerial Spin Charge - ASD is great for horizontal distance in the air, and Sonic's recovery means he can go far out of his way to hit opponents and still make it back (One reason why Recovery goes hand in hand with the rest of this section). You can also use the height from the hop combined with your Full or Short Hop and mix up the timing on close-to-ledge gimps. Uses for ASC for edgeguarding are not generally in my field of knowledge, so I'd like to see what the Sonic boards say about this.
* Homing Attack - Normally a bad idea unless you're gimping far from the stage (and even then...), but I'm recently finding that it might be a cool edgeguard on stage if you force Dedede to use all of his midair jumps. Knocks him out of Super Dedede Jump. This one's up for discussion too.
* Spring -
Other than that, Spring-and-let-gimp.
Mixing up your edgeguarding is all about timing. Do you want to go out to the blast line for a gimp? Do you want to eat up all of the opponent's jumps first? Maybe a last second aerial puts the opponent in a more disadvantaged position. In any case, I recommend experimenting with your Specials off stage. Spin Dash's peculiar animation and your aerial speed keep the opponent guessing as well as keep many of your aerial options available to you. VSDJ or SH Spin Dash from the stage also allows you to get considerable height without the use of your double jump. Truly a godsend.
Experiment. Experiment. Experiment. You can really go ape**** with Sonic off stage. Definitely don't be afraid to test the extent at which you can go out and hit someone.
Recovery
Not being able to auto grab the ledge with your Up-B can be a pain, but being able to attack out of it partially makes up for it. That being the case, you really have to make sure your recovery is unpunishable or at least unpredictable to make sure you get screwed.
Your options are pretty clear-cut on this one (Pretty much all your specials and your midair jump) so there's no reason in listing them. Just a general rule of thumb though:
"Homing Attack first. Homing Attack last."
If you're way out by the blast line, you can use HA to get the initial horizontal distance you need for a better-positioned recovery. After that, only use it as a last resort to close the remaining distance by locking on to your opponent. It can be pretty easy to misjudge just how low you already are when using HA, and you could end up too low to recover, even with Spring.
Using Spin Dash to meet your horizontal recovery needs will usually be sufficient enough to work well by itself. Because of the arc and the fact that you can still jump, you're already hard enough to intercept. However, using ASC after momentum canceling is preferable when you're in danger of being KO'd. FF Fair + ASC results in a sort of braking effect and allows you to live a bit longer. (Thanks infzy)
Spin Shot should not be used for long range recovery. Spin Dash gets you where you need to go WITHOUT wasting your midair jump. Occasionally you can recover high with it, if you're sure you can get back to solid ground, but otherwise save Spin Shooting for gimmick tactics like running off the edge and Spin Shooting back on.
A knowledgeable opponent will attempt to force Sonic to recover low so that he can grab gimp him out of Spring. If you're forced to recover low, there are a few things you can do to avoid this.
The first is simply to attack out of your Spring. If you're lucky or have good timing, you'll miss getting caught by Super Armor frames or at least cause enough shield stun to land on the ground before getting grabbed.
Your second option is to air dodge after Spring. Here your main goal is to land on the stage, period. The only possible flaw here is that the opponent may wait for the air dodge before grabbing. They might not even be looking for the grab at all, and instead opt for charging a smash.
Your last, non-stage exclusive resort is Homing Attack. This is merely a surprise attack for those who are waiting to (and adept at) intercept your recovery. A couple of examples of where you'd use HA as a last resort would be:
A) You are far enough below the stage to risk being cypher gimped.
B) You've Spin Dashed toward the stage (saving your second jump) and the opponent is looking to attack you OoS.
Keep in mind, you are still at risk of being punished when using HA as well as at risk of gimping yourself if the opponent is not in HA's range. Make SURE that your other options are NOT (or at least very unlikely to be) viable before resorting to HA. Too much can go wrong at the press of a button. Remember that when recovering, your main goal is to safely land on stage.
Act V: Landing Your Kill Moves
The first issue address when one inquires about Sonic regards his lack of kill moves. The truth is, there are a number of characters who have just as many options for killing as Sonic does. Sonic's real problem is reliably landing those kill moves. Bair is often stale from spacing and abuse (for a lot of players) and fsmash/dsmash just don't start quick enough to use OoS. So the question becomes, "How do I land Sonic's kill moves?"
First, let's bring down some information from the top of this thread:
Neutral Stance Options:
- Dash Dance Pivot
- Normal Dashing (Back and Forth)
- Foxtrotting (Back and Forth)
- Dash In -> Short Hop Out
- Short Hop In -> Dash Out
- Short Hop In -> Short Hop Out
- Spin Shot In -> Dash Out
- Spin Shot In -> Spring
Baiting Options:
*All Neutral Stance Options are generally included with Baiting Options. Exclusive to baiting, though:
- Shield Dashing (Back and Forth)
- ASC Canceling
- Dash -> Screech Stop
- Any ground attack
- Dash -> Pivot -> Fsmash/Ftilt/Dsmash
- Foxtrot -> Stutter Step Fsmash/Retreating Stutter Step Fsmash
- Dash In -> Short Hop in place
- Any ground attack
Aerial Mixups:
- SH Fair / Retreating Fair
- DJ Fair / Retreating Fair
- FF Bair
- ASC
- DJ Nair
- FF Bair
- ASC
- DJ ASC
- Bair
- ASD
- DJ Fair / Retreating Fair
- SH Bair (No Fast fall) / Retreating Bair
- VSDJ
- Bair / DJ Bair
- Uair
- DJ Uair
- Spring / DJ Spring
- DJ Uair
- Spring
- DJ Spring
- ASC
- DJ Any Aerial
- DJ ASC
- Spin Shot
- Any Aerial
* Lists edited to omit non-killing options or moves that don't lead into those options.
For emphasis, even when regarding Sonic's kill moves, the idea is to bait a reaction from the opponent and punish them for that reaction. The lists above pretty much cover most of what you can do in that regard, but let's shift topics to what is not mentioned.
Sidestep/Air Dodge vs Charged Smashes
*Just a litte note: with the ideas presented here, of course they can apply to usmash (though with the lengthy duration of the move it can work without charging), but our aim is to kill here, so it will be omitted from the rest of the information given.*
When dealing with sidesteps and air dodges, the same idea applies in baiting the actual reaction. Some things that do that effectively (while leaving you in position to use a smash) are Bthrow, Uthrow, dashing, and double taking. Sonic causes fear through his ability to quickly follow up from his moves. However, he can be just as quick to run away and back in and still follow up. That is what generally forces dodges. In the case of opponents recovering above stage they could also air dodge expecting to be intercepted. Whether baiting the dodge or land camping a recovery, you can look for the dodge, and charge away. If you need a move convincing sleight, throw in some empty Short Hops every now and then.
SDR -> Bair
I connect it at as low as 45ish percent.
Idk when it kills fresh cause I use it lots for damage racking.
Use your best judgement, but it'd be appreciated if you guys discussed or confirmed the best usage for this.
Bair and Platforms
Drop-through Bairs on platforms are solid options for opponents on or below the platform. It can be a quick, strong surprise attack from a defensive position. You could also SDJ/VSDJ to push them off the platform. A missed tech from there could net you a free Bair if you fast fall it quick enough. If not you can always read the wake up.
Star KOs/Anthinus Combo
I need help on this one, guys.
