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[osby]

I think a lot of it comes from the fact that this series is surprisingly still going and seems to not be stopping any time soon. It's a fascinating case when you consider that almost half the games in the series are poorly designed. While I think the whole "ha ha sonic sucks" joke is stale, I do think it's interesting to really take a good look at.

I think it's called Critical Dissonance. Just because a game isn't mechanically sound from a critical stand point doesn't mean people can't enjoy it. Just look at Brawl.

 

[Gentlepanda]

huh, Ive never seen that costume before

iirc it's the P4 arena shadow operatives gear

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I think a lot of it comes from the fact that this series is surprisingly still going and seems to not be stopping any time soon. It's a fascinating case when you consider that almost half the games in the series are poorly designed. While I think the whole "ha ha sonic sucks" joke is stale, I do think it's interesting to really take a good look at.

It's cause Sonic still has his appeal that drew us to him as kids. Forces sold surprisingly well and I believe was said to be made for kids who want to just go fast. While we tend to dislike some of the stuff that happens, kids usually end up loving it anyway. Same as how the movie will sell well on brand recognition alone

 

[Metal Shop X]

IMO Sonic peaked with Colors.

Huh, didn't like Sonic Mania I guess?

 

[CannonStreak]

It's cause Sonic still has his appeal that drew us to him as kids. Forces sold surprisingly well and I believe was said to be made for kids who want to just go fast. While we tend to dislike some of the stuff that happens, kids usually end up loving it anyway. Same as how the movie will sell well on brand recognition alone

Wait, how do you know Forces sold that well?

 

[Deleted member]

Colors and Mania are the only recent Sonic games that are more than just decent

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Huh, didn't like Sonic Mania I guess?

Mania brought back Oil Ocean so no, that alone makes it far from perfect

 

[Deleted member]

Huh, didn't like Sonic Mania I guess?

Was more talking about 3D Sonic. Haven't played Mania yet; it's on my list, though.

 

[Gentlepanda]

It only adds to the "Kasumi is basically female Joker" angle. It's crazy how this topic is still not disconfirmed yet.

tbh if kasumi is still around and part of the thieves by the end of royal, i've got a feeling they're going to play her in future spinoffs as a main character alongside joker; a way of sort of 'canonizing' a feMC as an actual character in the continuity while avoiding the alt-universe shenanigans required for the P3P protagonist's existence

the number of design parallels she has with him border on ridiculous

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Wait, how do you know Forces sold that well?

Sega themselves said they were pleased with the sales. I wonder if Forces was made primarily for the new Hedgehog Engine 2

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

man its gonna be hard to see peeps reactions if Kasumi ends up being a one off

 

[Gentlepanda]

man its gonna be hard to see peeps reactions if Kasumi ends up being a one off

bold of you to assume atlus won't pull a marie and sell her as DLC in every game after royal including strikers

 

[ClaTheBae]

It's cause Sonic still has his appeal that drew us to him as kids. Forces sold surprisingly well and I believe was said to be made for kids who want to just go fast. While we tend to dislike some of the stuff that happens, kids usually end up loving it anyway. Same as how the movie will sell well on brand recognition alone

Yeah actually a lot of people don't realize kids still like sonic. My mom texted me yesterday and said "I didn't know jim carrey would be in the sonic movie. Your brother is really excited to see it."
I totally forgot until that moment that sonic IS a kids series. I don't think it's an excuse for poor game design, but still.

 

[CannonStreak]

Yeah actually a lot of people don't realize kids still like sonic. My mom texted me yesterday and said "I didn't know jim carrey would be in the sonic movie. Your brother is really excited to see it."
I totally forgot until that moment that sonic IS a kids series. I don't think it's an excuse for poor game design, but still.

When is anything ever a good excuse for poor game design, anyway?

 

[Metal Shop X]

Mania brought back Oil Ocean so no, that alone makes it far from perfect

Yeah, but the story in Colour wasn't really noteworthy too imo, lots of jokes and not alot of style, or anything that interesting from what I remember. I know story isn't the number 1 reason to play a Sonic game, but I feel like it it's still a problem in Colour case.

Was more talking about 3D Sonic. Haven't played Mania yet; it's on my list, though.

Ah, OK, my , moving on then.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Choke: Sonic is bad
Woke: Sonic games are actually good if divisive.
Bespoke: STFU AND LISTEN TO THE MUSIC

No matter the quality of the game itself, the music in Sonic is almost always top notch Whenever I play a Sonic game, at least a couple of the tracks will be ingrained in my memory. Even Sonic 06 has some killer tracks. The themes of Aquatic Base, Crisis City, and Kingdom Valley give me the chills every time.

It's not just the instrumental tracks, the vocal themes in Sonic are great too. Notable shout outs to City Escape, Fight the Knight, and E.G.G.M.A.N.

 

[Deleted member]

bold of you to assume atlus won't pull a marie and sell her as DLC in every game after royal including strikers

Strikers? They're making a Persona football game?

 

[Gentlepanda]

Strikers? They're making a Persona football game?
View attachment 214320

it was the natural progression after persona 5 dancing and persona 5 hot wheels

 

[TewnLeenk]

Strikers? They're making a Persona football game?
View attachment 214320

This reminds me, we need a new Mario Strikers game already.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Holy **** guys.

We were all fools.

 

[CannonStreak]

Speaking of sports games, how about a Smash Bros. spin off where the Smashers play a sport like soccer?

 

[Deleted member]

Not sure if this is any kind of hot take or not, buuuuuut I actually think Forces' music was pretty bad.

 

[Deleted member]

Speaking of sports games, how about a Smash Bros. spin off where the Smashers play a sport like soccer?

I have a better solution:

Anyone up for some Smashketball?

 

[Metal Shop X]

Not sure if this is any kind of hot take or not, buuuuuut I actually think Forces' music was pretty bad.

I say it's just mediocre, which is pretty much what you could say about the whole game....beside everything related to Classic Sonic, he just suck, especially when compared to Mania Sonic.

 

[KMDP]

Sonic's just such an easy target to dunk on. There's so much material you can chose from.

The problem, really, is that people continue ****ting on Sonic even when the franchise does things right (also that Sonic Team keep listening to vocal minorities).

Generally this is because the fanbase is so huge (and so fractured) that Sega has left Sonic Team with no "right answer" for pleasing the fanbase, even the Sonic Golden Boy, Sonic Mania, had detractors.

Say what you will about Nintendo, but Mario has had a very consistent tone and playstyle for pretty much 3 decades at this point, if Super Mario does something wrong all they need to do is go back to basics and fans will be happy (this was the core idea behind New Super Mario Bros. ...you know before New Super Mario Bros. became same-y). Even when the playstyle is different with Mario (i.e. the Spinoffs), the tone is kept in tact.

Sonic's tone and playstyle has been all over the place from, like, 1997. By that time we not only had the three (and a half) original Games (Sonic 1, 2, 3 and & Knuckles), but Sonic CD (which has a different core design to the others while still using the same engine), Sonic 3D, Knuckles Chaotix, Sonic R, the Master System/Game Gear titles, Sonic Labyrinth, the two Tails Games. Not to mention two entirely tonally different TV Series (SATAM and Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog), along with two different Comic Book series (Archie, adapting SATAM, and Sonic the Comic) along with the anime OVA, which is, again. tonally different from any of the others.

And this was just within 6 years of Sonic's inception. Five different continuities (the Games/Japanese canon, the OVA, AoSTH, Archie/SATAM and Sonic the Comic), all with their own fans.

After that you got Sonic Underground (another tonally different tv series), as well as Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic Heroes, all of which use slightly different playstyles with Sonic. And then the Boost Formula comes along. And then there's Sonic Boom. And now the Sonic Movie.

Even the much-maligned Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic '06 have their fans.

Where do Sonic Team go with Sonic? Do they go back to Classic Gameplay? That'll just frustrate the people who like the 3D games. Do they go back to the Adventure style? That'll piss off people too. The Boost Gameplay is a huge tax on resources, Sonic Lost World had problems.

TL;DR is that the reason there is so material to "dunk on" Sonic with is because Sonic, as a franchise, is some kind of Eldritch Monstrosity that no one fan can agree on.

 

[osby]

Yeah actually a lot of people don't realize kids still like sonic. My mom texted me yesterday and said "I didn't know jim carrey would be in the sonic movie. Your brother is really excited to see it."
I totally forgot until that moment that sonic IS a kids series. I don't think it's an excuse for poor game design, but still.

I mean. A lot of adults here think Sonic Adventure games were enjoyable, even though they aren't exactly pinnacles of game design.

I think most people just grow out of Sonic, rather than series hitting the rock-bottom, even though I still think SEGA can return to form in a few things.

 

[TheMightyP]

So did you guys see that new Japanese Mario Maker trailer? It's on the Japanese site, and it has some new stuff that was shown off.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

I know what you mean.

SnakeFighter64 I mean, I am a Sonic fan, but I know Sonic is in a bad place, and you don't see me complaining about those roasting the Sonic movie. I do think that the criticism towards the Sonic series in general is over the top and full of overreacting, well, a lot of it, anyway, as a lot of Sonic games are not actually that bad. Still, it is hard to control those who pick on Sonic, if it is even possible at all. Sometimes, you just have to live with things, ya know.

Except criticizing and not supporting the franchise isn’t going to make anything better. It’s just going to kill the franchise because the studios aren’t going to see it as profitable anymore. If this keeps up, we’ll live in a world where Sonic media just doesn’t happen anymore. Because SEGA tried and nobody bit the line. That’s how studios work. Sure, sometimes you get lucky and things turn around and a brand makes a comeback, or even gets resurrected from the crypt. But how often does that actually happen. I don’t want Sonic to die. I don’t want to have to go to the plumber for my platforming fix. I don’t want to have to feed my kids to the Nintendo machine. But that’s where this is headed if people don’t stop.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

bold of you to assume atlus won't pull a marie and sell her as DLC in every game after royal including strikers

which is funny because people are already calling her a Marie

and people realllly dont like Marie

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

This reminds me, we need a new Mario Strikers game already.

I'm honestly surprised there hasn't been more mario sports games on switch, I guess games take more time/money to develop than they did 10 years ago, but it would be nice to know if they were working on a Mario golf/baseball/strikers.

I still play Mario Golf: Toadstool tour on gamecube with my parents, would be nice to get one on switch.

 

[Gentlepanda]

tfw rewatching those two critical hit gifs side by side and they even do the exact same side-up-down slashing combo

what does it mean, atlus?
what does it mean?

 

[Deleted member]

and people realllly dont like Marie

are we talking about Splatoon Marie
because if so
what world are you living in

 

[osby]

Except criticizing and not supporting the franchise isn’t going to make anything better. It’s just going to kill the franchise because the studios aren’t going to see it as profitable anymore. If this keeps up, we’ll live in a world where Sonic media just doesn’t happen anymore. Because SEGA tried and nobody bit the line. That’s how studios work. Sure, sometimes you get lucky and things turn around and a brand makes a comeback, or even gets resurrected from the crypt. But how often does that actually happen. I don’t want Sonic to die. I don’t want to have to go to the plumber for my platforming fix. I don’t want to have to feed my kids to the Nintendo machine. But that’s where this is headed if people don’t stop.

But Sonic games do sell well. SEGA isn't going to stop making Sonic just because some people with too much free time in their hands trash talk it on the internet.

 

[Deleted member]

Hot take: people who act so enlightened about not caring about spoilers and not understanding why someone wouldn't want to be spoiled are really annoying.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

are we talking about Splatoon Marie
because if so
what world are you living in

Oh no Persona 4 Golden Marie lol

Still Not sure why people hate her but they do

 

[ClaTheBae]

Except criticizing and not supporting the franchise isn’t going to make anything better.

Are you honestly suggesting that criticizing a game won't make the developers change the way they design a game? Critical reception is one of the biggest reasons game designers switch up design philosophy in any subsequent games.

 

[Metal Shop X]

tfw rewatching those two critical hit gifs side by side and they even do the exact same side-up-down slashing combo

View attachment 214322

what does it mean, atlus?
what does it mean?

All of those squares make a circle.

All of those squares make a circle.

All of those squares make a circle...

 

[osby]

which is funny because people are already calling her a Marie

and people realllly dont like Marie

Some people don't. Other people are either okay with her or love her, especially in Japan.

 

[Deleted member]

I say it's just mediocre, which is pretty much what you could say about the whole game....beside everything related to Classic Sonic, he just suck, especially when compared to Mania Sonic.

I think what I personally hate most about Forces is the lack of any effort whatsoever from the dev team. The stiff, lazy animations, the mediocre to sometimes bad music, Classic Sonic having some of the the worst physics of any Sonic game ever, and level design so bad that people uploaded footage of themselves making and eating a sandwich while the level completed itself in a double boost segment.

I honestly consider Forces to be one of the worst Sonic games. Only good things about it IMO is Aqua Road is the one good song and the OC creator is neat.

 

[KMDP]

Not sure if this is any kind of hot take or not, buuuuuut I actually think Forces' music was pretty bad.

Sonic Forces's music wasn't bad, per se.

There are remixes of the Classic Stage songs that sound great, and all they really did was change the sound font.