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[Metal Shop X]

JOHN AND BOB
WINS

It's always "John and Bob" and never "Bob and John"!

brb going to complaint on twitter about this.

 

[Deleted member]

but because you guys won't actually give me any solid factual data to prove your own point.

bruh sound effect

Let's be simplified about it then.
4 special moves + 3 tilts + jab + rapid jab + 5 aerials + grab + pummel + 4 throws + final smash = 21 seperate moves to decide.
Then you have to factor in how to balance those moves, how to make their animations flow, what to reference, how to make them stand out, a ridiculous amount of bug testing and how to make the chracter enjoyable to play.
Seriously, there nearly 80 characters, and for each new one you have to bug test how those moves interact with every other move.
And that's not factoring taunts, idle animations, victory poses, model development and everything else.

 

[Deleted member]

WAIT WAIT
HOW DID I NOT SEE THIS YET

MORGANA HAT
MORGANA HAT

 

[Deleted member]

I suppose that Smash having some kind of presence at E3 is possible.

I don’t think we may get something before that event, since I don’t remember any big holidays going on during that period.

I don’t count on Smash news at E3 completely doh, but maybe we could get a teaser of Brave or something minor.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

Erdrick and fighter pack 3 reveal at E3, quite possibly. Then in August or September we get fighter pack 4, then they announce “THE FINAL BROADCAST” and then at that broadcast we get the last big update and the last character reveal. Just like Sm4sh’s DLC.

 

[Deleted member]

only 5 of those stages are actually new.

I'll give you assist trophies and bosses.

Items, how many of those are actually new again? I forget.

Every stage also requires hours of modelling, design and programming while also requiring bug testing with each and every character and each and every unique move to make sure it actually works, alongside any extras like backround NPCs or travelling stages.
I feel like you're underestimating how much time is actually required for bug testing.

 

[ClaTheBae]

Erdrick and fighter pack 3 reveal at E3, quite possibly. Then in August or September we get fighter pack 4, then they announce “THE FINAL BROADCAST” and then at that broadcast we get the last big update and the last character reveal. Just like Sm4sh’s DLC.

edit: nvm lmao

 

[Pyra]

Let's be simplified about it then.
4 special moves + 3 tilts + jab + rapid jab + 5 aerials + grab + pummel + 4 throws + final smash = 21 seperate moves to decide.
Then you have to factor in how to balance those moves, how to make their animations flow, what to reference, how to make them stand out, a ridiculous amount of bug testing and how to make the chracter enjoyable to play.
Seriously, there nearly 80 characters, and for each new one you have to bug test how those moves interact with every other move.
And that's not factoring taunts, idle animations, victory poses, model development and everything else.

Easy peasy
Just take a shortcut 4head

 

[osby]

I do! All the time!

you know what, forget it. We've had this argument before and it went the exact same way. I'm not going to put in the effort cause it's not worth it. I can't be convinced, not because my opinion is inflexable, but because you guys won't actually give me any solid factual data to prove your own point.

With all due respect, your opinion is inflexible. People are giving you perfectly good reasons on why making Smash is so taxing and you ignore them all just because the fighters have less commands than Mortal Kombat.

Excuse me but I think you can't be convinced because you simply don't want to change your opinion (which is fine) but I personally think it's really rude to act like someone's hard work is in vain when it's really not.

 

[Deleted member]

you skipped fighter pass 2

he's implying that Erdrick is Fighter Pack 2
even tho it's obviously Chocobo

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Every stage also requires hours of modelling, design and programming while also requiring bug testing with each and every character and each and every unique move to make sure it actually works, alongside any extras like backround NPCs or travelling stages.
I feel like you're underestimating how much time is actually required for bug testing.

Stages are especially important for the ones with randomized layouts and Ridley's command grab too

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

It seems the inane repetitive ramblings of me and Scoliosis Jones have convinced some of you to actually consider Resident Evil a possible character despite no evidence and exactly one clearly fake text leak.

Yeeeeeeesssss it's working...

I wouldn’t go that far with the pessimism.

I think there’s more than enough reasoning to include a Resident Evil character. The genre defining, money making, “pants ****ting”, multimedia franchise is known around the world. It’s more profitable than Street Fighter and Mega Man combined. It provides unique gameplay potential. It brings in an entirely new playable genre into Smash.

The reason people haven’t talked about it likely boils down to:

1) They haven’t played it before
2) No one expected it because of violence, gore and the “no gun” rule.

While people probably haven’t played it as much, we’ve supplied ample evidence of potential and relevance to gaming over the last few weeks, I feel. The gun rule is now dead because of Joker. That’s one more obstacle knocked down for the series. The gore can be basically made into something that isn’t quite “gory” (MvC2 made any blood spots look like green ooze).

Before Ryu was confirmed, no one on here expected him. Before Cloud was confirmed, no one on here expected him. Both are icons of a particular genre.

I think Resident Evil could absolutely be next.

 

[Deleted member]

he's implying that Erdrick is Fighter Pack 2
even tho it's obviously Chocobo

Seeing that the Tails and Knuckles costumes are back...

I am a bit worried about Chocobo sharing a similar fate.

 

[Deleted member]

Easy peasy
Just take a shortcut 4head

just thanos snap half their moves to shorten development time

not like it's gonna lessen the overall product or go completely against sakurai's development philosophy

 

[ThatOneAnon]

I would keep in mind that Erdrick is decidedly less likely now thanks to the 5ch leak being debunked, as well as that we need to stop automatically assuming “oh datamines mean this thing is coming” now that Poniko is deconfirmed.

 

[praline]

WAIT WAIT
HOW DID I NOT SEE THIS YET
View attachment 209479
MORGANA HAT
MORGANA HAT

How could you miss this, you weirdo

 

[osby]

only 5 of those stages are actually new.

I'll give you assist trophies and bosses.

Items, how many of those are actually new again? I forget.

You still have to make sure new items and stages work correctly with new characters and mechanics.

Also 64, Melee and 3DS stages can't simply ported over. If putting old stages into Ultimate was no work, don't you think we'd get Rainbow Road or Pokefloats?

 

[Deleted member]

How could you miss this, you weirdo

mmmmmmmMORGANA HAAAAAAAT

 

[Raxxel]

Convince me that one character in smash isn't equivelent work to at most half of a single Mortal Kombat or Street Fighter character. They just do way less.

I think you're not considering the fact that Smash works on a much wider plane than either SF or MK do. SF and MK have their fighters put in a relatively strict playing field, with even terrain, no platforms or edges, etc. So there is relatively not a lot of playtesting and bug fixing involved with those games. Smash however has hazards, platforms, edges, uneven terrain and the like that means every character needs to be tested and programmed to interact with all of that properly.

 

[Coricus]

When other developers turn out fighters where the characters do way more and are way more detailed in 2 years, it makes me raise an eyebrow when sakurai complains.

I. . .I'm wincing just reading this.

Smash Bros gameplay is anchored around knockback and platforming, a cocktail of physics that most normal fighters don't even go near touching. And each character and every character has to be simultaneously balanced around that and each other, in a roster of 70. Several moves in every character's moveset have to be balanced around not spontaneously tossing them through the stage or innumerable other bugs, something which the literal flat line that is traditional fighting game stages doesn't even have to concern itself about. And the whole thing has to run with 4-8 player controlled characters on screen simultaneously without lagging, while the vast, vast majority of fighters only have to worry about two. Never mind that you've been openly reductive about the number of moves and animations Smash characters have during past rounds of this conversation and that the mindset of a developer having it "easy" is misguided and openly disrespectful towards ALL developers.

I just. . .holy hell, this kind of attitude is beyond disappointing.

 

[Deleted member]

I wouldn’t go that far with the pessimism.

I think there’s more than enough reasoning to include a Resident Evil character. The genre defining, money making, “pants ****ting”, multimedia franchise is known around the world. It’s more profitable than Street Fighter and Mega Man combined. It provides unique gameplay potential. It brings in an entirely new playable genre into Smash.

The reason people haven’t talked about it likely boils down to:

1) They haven’t played it before
2) No one expected it because of violence, gore and the “no gun” rule.

While people probably haven’t played it as much, we’ve supplied ample evidence of potential and relevance to gaming over the last few weeks, I feel. The gun rule is now dead because of Joker. That’s one more obstacle knocked down for the series. The gore can be basically made into something that isn’t quite “gory” (MvC2 made any blood spots look like green ooze).

Before Ryu was confirmed, no one on here expected him. Before Cloud was confirmed, no one on here expected him. Both are icons of a particular genre.

I think Resident Evil could absolutely be next.

RE in Smash just makes a lot of sense for me.

The franchise is for some like the Final Fantasy of Survival Horror games or close, and had a clear presence on Nintendo’s consoles.

It would make as much sense as Dragon Quest or Ninja Gaiden.

 

[Iridium]

This explains something.

Spoiler

Art credit: https://mobile.twitter.com/TekNicale/status/1118347757188722688

You still have to make sure new items and stages work correctly with new characters and mechanics.

Also 64, Melee and 3DS stages can't simply ported over. If putting old stages into Ultimate was no work, don't you think we'd get Rainbow Road or Pokefloats?

Watch people remake Poké Floats with the Stage Builder. Will not feel the same, but eh.

 

[Deleted member]

Finally joker and his mom are reunited at last

Sonic is their pet btw if you don’t know why he’s there

 

[praline]

I would keep in mind that Erdrick is decidedly less likely now thanks to the 5ch leak being debunked, as well as that we need to stop automatically assuming “oh datamines mean this thing is coming” now that Poniko is deconfirmed.

This doesn’t really change much. He still has a good chance of being playable.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

This doesn’t really change much. He still has a good chance of being playable.

Yeah, but before people were treating him as a lock, and I don’t think he is one now.

 

[Deleted member]

Watch people remake Poké Floats with the Stage Builder. Will not feel the same, but eh.

oh **** we have moving stage parts now hell yeah

we can now either remake poke floats or make expanding dong stages

 

[Pyra]

just thanos snap half their moves to shorten development time

not like it's gonna lessen the overall product or go completely against sakurai's development philosophy

In a Quality over Quantity mindset, the obvious first step is to take shortcuts so that way you can’t actually perfect what you’re doing

It’s the true bamboozle of the game development career path

If you don’t, you are legally required to not be in pain or talk about it if you are
I don’t make the rules, sorry Chief

 

[Deleted member]

I would keep in mind that Erdrick is decidedly less likely now thanks to the 5ch leak being debunked, as well as that we need to stop automatically assuming “oh datamines mean this thing is coming” now that Poniko is deconfirmed.

As long as there’s hope for Dragon Quest stuff in Smash, I won’t give up.

 

[praline]

Yeah, but before people were treating him as a lock, and I don’t think he is one now.

No character is a lock unless you’re dumb lol

This explains something.

Spoiler

View attachment 209480

Art credit: https://mobile.twitter.com/TekNicale/status/1118347757188722688


Watch people remake Poké Floats with the Stage Builder. Will not feel the same, but eh.

I expected another stupid Yoshi tax evasion meme and I was pleasantly surprised.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

oh **** we have moving stage parts now hell yeah

we can now either remake poke floats or make expanding dong stages

With great power, comes great responsibility

 

[Ultomato]

W'ellp, I got a third Smashboards-user Blocked today.
Cut the toxic out of your Life, as they say

 

[Deleted member]

In a Quality over Quantity mindset, the obvious first step is to take shortcuts so that way you can’t actually perfect what you’re doing

It’s the true bamboozle of the game development career path

If you don’t, you are legally required to not be in pain or talk about it if you are
I don’t make the rules, sorry Chief

honestly it still boggles my mind that sakurai went "quality? quantity? why not both?" when making this hell of a game

 

[osby]

oh **** we have moving stage parts now hell yeah

we can now either remake poke floats or make expanding dong stages

Everyone asks "can I do this" but nobody asks "should I do this".

 

[praline]

oh **** we have moving stage parts now hell yeah

we can now either remake poke floats or make expanding dong stages

Someone’s gonna make a stage involving 2 people ****ing within the day.

 

[Deleted member]

Using the Switch touch screen without a styles feels kind of awkward for me doh.

I just hope that I can use my 3DS’s stylus or something regarding that.

 

[KMDP]

Finally joker and his mom are reunited at last
View attachment 209481
Sonic is their pet btw if you don’t know why he’s there

The SEGA Crew.

Actually, the Smash wiki says that Joker is the second character to have his victory theme pulled from his home game (after Sonic), but I'm pretty sure they've forgotten that Cloud also pulled his victory theme directly from FFVII.

 

[ClaTheBae]

W'ellp, I got a third Smashboards-user Blocked today.
Cut the toxic out of your Life, as they say

what the hell happened

 

[Deleted member]

If Joker only needs one hand to use Rebel's Guard why doesn't he just stab himself while guarding to charge his Persona faster?

 

[Deleted member]

what the hell happened

I have a feeling that it has something to do with the Sakurai and game development debate.

 

[Pyra]

honestly it still boggles my mind that sakurai went "quality? quantity? why not both?" when making this hell of a game

Hell yeah dude
If more developers cared about their stuff half as much as he does then maybe I won’t feel like half of all new games are just reused ideas or remasters