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[Luigi The President]

Most of the start of the thread was pretty much a civil war between pretty much everyone, I arrived mid December and we used to have some pretty awful arguments against Erdrick. You know anime swordsman, right issues being a pain in the ***, Sugiyama, and so on. I actually appreciate Luigi The President since she actually standed for us a lot of the times.

Yea no the Erdrick community are friends of mine. I know how it feels to be attacked like you guys were, so I was happy to get in between that. I'm happy to say that I think it worked a little lol.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

you would be suprised at how many people hold different political views. Just remeber, Sakurai is asking for their work on music, not their politics. If Everyone did that, nothing will get done

While I do agree with you to an extent, at some point we shouldn't ignore genuinely evil behavior just because it's "politics". If anything all that means is we never talk about these things at all and people's lives continue to be ruined.

 

[Deleted member]

Dude, that’s good stuff. May I make a request?

I have a lot of projects lined up for April and I'm not usually one to take requests (I can be really picky with what I like to draw, lol), but if you DM me the details and it seems like something I could do I'll let you know!

 

[Wyoming]

While I do agree with you to an extent, at some point we shouldn't ignore genuinely evil behavior just because it's "politics". If anything all that means is we never talk about these things at all and people's lives continue to be ruined.

Thing is buying music for a Nintendo game isn't going to change anything for the better or worse. This dude's an old man that has no authority whatsoever politically. In a way his music being released in the west may put the spotlight on how much of a despicable person he is to people here who don't know.

He already got his money for this, so no point in turning back.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

While I do agree with you to an extent, at some point we shouldn't ignore genuinely evil behavior just because it's "politics". If anything all that means is we never talk about these things at all and people's lives continue to be ruined.

I dont know what your talkin about because thats not the point I was makin.

 

[Deleted member]

Take it like this:
Nintendo has released Dragon Quest 7 & 8 remakes on the 3DS.

They need Sugiyama to get those orchestral soundtracks.

Those remakes have the orchestral soundtracks in them.

Therefore, Nintendo has already worked with the man for the sake of Dragon Quest.

If they can do it once, they can do it again. The evidence is Dragon Quest 11 S having the orchestral soundtracks.

This is Smash Bros. Sakurai is a reasonable man. Sakurai is probably aware that Sugiyama is a very bad person he must avoid.
Minecraft has removed Notch from their splash text in the title.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

I have a lot of projects lined up for April and I'm not usually one to take requests (I can be really picky with what I like to draw, lol), but if you DM me the details and it seems like something I could do I'll let you know!

I don’t really wanna stress ya, so I’ll you just leave you be

 

[SnakeFighter64]

Thing is buying music for a Nintendo game isn't going to change anything for the better or worse. This dude's an old man that has no authority whatsoever politically. In a way his music being released in the west may put the spotlight on how much of a despicable person he is to people here who don't know.

Professor Pumpkaboo

That's true. It's a weird balance. To some people, paying him and crediting him despite his horrible behavior is a signal that that behavior is okay, which we don't want. Or that Nintendo condones his behavior, or even worse agrees with him, which is obviously not true. That's a kind of power he still has and always will have and needs to be taken into account. It's PR.

 

[Deleted member]

This is Smash Bros. Sakurai is a humble man. Sakurai is probably aware that Sugiyama is a very bad person he must avoid.
Minecraft has removed Notch from their splash text in the title.

Why bring up minecraft when there is approximately 0 overlap between that dev team and smash's dev team?

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

I can confirm that this is valid.

 

[Idon]

Minecraft has removed Notch from their splash text in the title.

That has... nothing to do wi-

y'know what, forget this.
Takes way more energy to refute this than to make this stuff up.

 

[PsySmasher]

While I do agree with you to an extent, at some point we shouldn't ignore genuinely evil behavior just because it's "politics". If anything all that means is we never talk about these things at all and people's lives continue to be ruined.

And how does this point relate to the development of Smash Bros?

I get the point you're making, but it doesn't really correlate to the main argument here.

 

[Arcanir]

I mean unfortunately, the Smash speculation community is:

1) a conglomerate of several different fanbases, made up mostly by people who have mostly Nintendo experience
2) a variety of age groups, with some of the more...vocal, being younger and in some cases less mature or experienced with discussion
3) dictated by favoritism, as in fans will fight everyone else if it means their character gets into Smash.

It’s weird, because that makes Smash fans unique. It includes several different fanbases which means plenty of different perspectives. However, the salt is endless. It’s just extra bad with Smash and while I get why people love the game, the salt seems kind of over the top.

Can’t say I entirely know why though.

The Smash fanbase absorbs the best and the worst of other fanbases. We can have some very negative conversations because people don't care for a certain character or franchise, but we can also have great conversations where we learn more about those characters and other franchises. For instance, many of us became interested in Persona 5 due to not only Joker being put in, but also fans like DaybreakHorizon telling us what they love about the game and explaining what it offers. Similarly, different perspectives can lead to better comparison or different viewpoints on the good or bad elements of the games such as discussing FE Awakening's strong points, what we felt is overstated/understated, and how it compares to others in its franchise or other strategy games like AW Day of Ruin. Moments like that are always worth it in the fandom and I do appreciate that since it means being able to see and understand more outside of the bubble.

Granted, there are low points like the Grinch Leak and we're always going to have those considering how strong opinions are in the fanbase as well as in-fighting over which character 'deserves' inclusion more, but at the end of the day we're all here because we enjoy talking to each other. There may always be salt, but we can always serve fries with ketchup.

Which cinematic villains of 2019 do you guys think will lay on top in terms of performance and praise?

-Doctor Sivana (Shazam!)
-Grimmel the Grisly (How to Train Your Dragon: The Hidden World)
-King Ghidorah (Godzilla: King of the Monsters)
-Mr. Glass (Glass)
-Nimue, the Blood Queen (Hellboy)
-Rex Dangervest (The Lego Movie: The Second Part)
-Pennywise (It: Chapter Two)
-Scar (The Lion King)
-Tethered (Us)
-Thanos (Avengers: Endgame)
-Other

I wish there were Oscars for this kind of thing...

Probably Thanos as he has a lot of build-up to live up to in Endgame and the commercials do imply something big with him. With that said, personal bias goes to King Ghidorah as I always love his matches with Godzilla and I'm looking forward to seeing how it's handled in the movie.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

That's true. It's a weird balance. To some people, paying him and crediting him despite his horrible behavior is a signal that that behavior is okay, which we don't want. Or that Nintendo condones his behavior, or even worse agrees with him, which is obviously not true. That's a kind of power he still has and always will have and needs to be taken into account. It's PR.

Crediting him isnt giving him a pass.
Crediting him is telling everyone the music is his, which it is, which everyone has the right to have credit given.

Separate giving someone a pass over giving people credit on their work

 

[Deleted member]

While I do agree with you to an extent, at some point we shouldn't ignore genuinely evil behavior just because it's "politics". If anything all that means is we never talk about these things at all and people's lives continue to be ruined.

There's a difference between discussing our political views at the table and working towards a collective goal. Are engineers not going to work with people who side on the opposite political spectrum? Well that's going to slow down our development as a society without solving any issue. Are liberal lawyers going to reject their client if they happen to support deportation? First, why would a lawyer even ask that when their job is to defend?

No one is saying we shouldn't talk about politics. We're saying business and politics are typically separate because our diverse societies wouldn't function otherwise.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Would Sakurai really let a homophobe and Holocaust denier work in making orchestral music for Ultimate?
Sakurai is not that type of person. Sakurai or Nintendo will hire people with views that are not like that.

>Holocaust denier
wut

He’s not a holocaust denier, he’s a Japanese war crime denier. It’s a surprisingly common sentiment among older Japanese people.

This isn’t defending him or his views, but I’d just like to clarify the facts.

 

[Deleted member]

This is Smash Bros. Sakurai is a reasonable man. Sakurai is probably aware that Sugiyama is a very bad person he must avoid.
Minecraft has removed Notch from their splash text in the title.

Burden of proof is now on you. When has Sakurai rejected someone at the door because of their political views?

 

[Deleted member]

I don’t really wanna stress ya, so I’ll you just leave you be

Oh, I hope I wasn't implying that it would be stress, it wouldn't be at all! I just don't know if I'll have time to do it in April, as I got three other projects I gotta work on (I got a Squid Sisters drawing I want to do, I have Fluttershy Day over on Equestria Daily, and a project for a relative).

I really do appreciate that you would even consider asking me to draw something, though. Knowing my art is passable enough that people would be interested in making requests is very reassuring that I'm slowly getting better, so I appreciate it.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Oh, I hope I wasn't implying that it would be stress, it wouldn't be at all! I just don't know if I'll have time to do it in April, as I got three other projects I gotta work on (I got a Squid Sisters drawing I want to do, I have Fluttershy Day over on Equestria Daily, and a project for a relative).

I really do appreciate that you would even consider asking me to draw something, though. Knowing my art is passable enough that people would be interested in making requests is very reassuring that I'm slowly getting better, so I appreciate it.

Aighty. I’ll PM ya the details.
Edit: Later not right now

 

[SnakeFighter64]

There's a difference between discussing our political views at the table and working towards a collective goal. Are engineers not going to work with people who side on the opposite political spectrum? Well that's going to slow down our development as a society without solving any issue. Are liberal lawyers going to reject their client if they happen to support deportation? First, why would a lawyer even ask that when their job is to defend?

No one is saying we shouldn't talk about politics. We're saying business and politics are typically separate because our diverse societies wouldn't function otherwise.

But then you end up with racists, homophobes, transphobes, holocaust deniers, climate change deniers, and flat-earthers in positions of power and they just keep ****ing everything up. This behavior isn't politics. It's just being evil. And we can't give evil people a pass for any reason. Letting them work and continue on in life unpunished it morally wrong and a slap in the face to all of the victims their actions and beliefs created.

 

[Wyoming]

Professor Pumpkaboo

That's true. It's a weird balance. To some people, paying him and crediting him despite his horrible behavior is a signal that that behavior is okay, which we don't want. Or that Nintendo condones his behavior, or even worse agrees with him, which is obviously not true. That's a kind of power he still has and always will have and needs to be taken into account. It's PR.

Yeah I get that's a slippery slope, particularly in a well-known series like Smash.

But it's merely crediting someone for their work. If Sakurai came out and said he wanted Erdrick because he's best mates with the composer, then yeah that's a mess. But we know he picked him for the character and series, who are unrelated to the man in question.

I'm sure people will be upset, and I'm left winger, but it's a nothing burger. They had to work for the composer because the series with his music was picked for its own merits, not for the composer's.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

But then you end up with racists, homophobes, transphobes, holocaust deniers, climate change deniers, and flat-earthers in positions of power and they just keep ****ing everything up. This behavior isn't politics. It's just being evil. And we can't give evil people a pass for any reason.

Implying people who have opinions are evil.


They are... interesting opinions but that doesn’t make em’ evil.

 

[Deleted member]

Burden of proof is now on you. When has Sakurai rejected someone at the door because of their political views?

I do not think Sakurai has hired people that have had bad political views, though.

Thing is buying music for a Nintendo game isn't going to change anything for the better or worse. This dude's an old man that has no authority whatsoever politically. In a way his music being released in the west may put the spotlight on how much of a despicable person he is to people here who don't know.

He already got his money for this, so no point in turning back.

While it would be good for him to get exposed to the west more as a bad person, he would also be credited in a game I love and a game that everyone loves. Minecraft erased Notch from the title screen, because it must be for all audiences.

>Holocaust denier
wut

He’s not a holocaust denier, he’s a Japanese war crime denier. It’s a surprisingly common sentiment among older Japanese people.

This isn’t defending him or his views, but I’d just like to clarify the facts.

That still makes it really bad. The Japanese did a ton of terrible things during WW2.

 

[Gentlepanda]

I do not think Sakurai has hired people that have had bad political views, though.

there is literally no proof for this claim in existence other than gut feeling

 

[SnakeFighter64]

Implying people who have opinions are evil.


They are... interesting opinions but that doesn’t make em’ evil.

I'm not trying to defend any of the types of people you mentioned, but I think evil is a very strong word and controversial word that should not be applied to people based on political views alone. I don't think anyone is purely evil. I know that's a very controversial statement I'm making, but there are very few people who I would classify as evil.

Racism. Transphobia. Denying the ****ing holoaust. How is that NOT evil.
This isn't like hating Minecraft. This is actively wanting to make life horrible for a select group of people. That opinion is evil

Yeah I get that's a slippery slope, particularly in a well-known series like Smash.

But it's merely crediting someone for their work. If Sakurai came out and said he wanted Erdrick because he's best mates with the composer, then yeah that's a mess. But we know he picked him for the character and series, who are unrelated to the man in question.

I'm sure people will be upset, and I'm left winger, but it's a nothing burger. They had to work for the composer because the series with his music was picked for its own merits, not for the composer's.

I get that. And like I said, I don't think it's a good reason to disallow Dragon Quest representation. I just wish there was some way around it.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

But then you end up with racists, homophobes, transphobes, holocaust deniers, climate change deniers, and flat-earthers in positions of power and they just keep ****ing everything up. This behavior isn't politics. It's just being evil. And we can't give evil people a pass for any reason.

I'm not trying to defend any of the types of people you mentioned, but I think evil is a very strong word and controversial word that should not be applied to people based on political views alone. I don't think anyone is purely evil. I know that's a very controversial statement I'm making, but there are very few people who I would classify as evil.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Would Sakurai really let a homophobe and Holocaust denier work in making orchestral music for Ultimate?
Sakurai is not that type of person. Sakurai or Nintendo will hire people with views that are not like that.

Also, to return to this point, may I remind everyone that Square Enix still works with him in spite of his views? They could have easily dropped him, but instead they made a press release and called it from there.

Business and politics are two completely different things, regardless of what some people might want.

Furthermore, Erdrick’s inclusion doesn’t represent Sugimiya solely. What about Hori or Toriyama? Are they worthless in this conversation even though they have more influence in the series?

At the end of the day, Sugimiya is an old man with old man opinions and he’ll be gone soon enough. There’s little point in raising a fuss about him now when this issue has already been addressed.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Interesting debate question that could connect to this discussion, “Is it possible or moral to like and support the work of an artist if that particular artist/creator has views that are negative or detrimental to society?”

I mean, not even Dragon Quest guy but stuff like Michael Jackson. I like Michael Jackson’s music, and yes the man is dead, but just because I like his music does that mean I support child molestation or marriage? Of course not.

I feel like society throws out the baby with the bath water. I don’t know if that is a result of outrage culture, or what. Then again, I really do feel that there are plenty of people out there who just want to be mad at something. That isn’t to say that there aren’t real things to be outraged about, but outrage without solutions is just outrage and unhappiness.

Granted, i’m also of the opinion that there are plenty of people on social media who like to tweet things to get likes, like virtue signaling, and then just complain about real issues without presenting actual solutions.

Sorry for the rant, but frankly I think this whole “If you do X then you’re Y” nonsense needs to stop if we ever want to move forward in society.

There are situations in which, yes, a person doing specific things is a not so good thing. But with the big picture, society needs to accept that not all of our leaders are going to be perfect and that there are far bigger problems to deal with. We shouldn’t be shunning people who would be our allies just because they may have done something we disagree with.

This is further away from the original point though. Dragon Quest Guy, from what i’ve been told, is a doodoo head.

 

[Deleted member]

i have amassed ten thousand posts

my soul is now trapped on this hellsite

y'all gonna have to live with these ****posts forever now

 

[Deleted member]

Err...Aren't we supposed to avoid this kind of talk? It doesn't seem like it'll do anything but start problems...

Perhaps it would be best to move on to a different topic?

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Racism. Transphobia. Denying the ****ing holoaust. How is that NOT evil.
This isn't like hating Minecraft. This is actively wanting to make life horrible for a select group of people. That opinion is evil


I get that. And like I said, I don't think it's a good reason to disallow Dragon Quest representation. I just wish there was some way around it.

It’s very, very bad, don’t get me wrong, but I’d consider evil quite a strong word that would be used for like, someone like Hitler, or something.

Also we aren’t supposed to be talking about politics. Can we please get a mod on this? Cyn ?

 

[Deleted member]

Implying people who have opinions are evil.


They are... interesting opinions but that doesn’t make em’ evil.

It does make them evil.
Believing Hitler did nothing wrong is an extremely evil opinion.

there is literally no proof for this claim in existence other than gut feeling

It is a gut feeling, but Sakurai is a good person. Would he really hire people without thinking about them?

 

[Ultomato]

No, it's not...

It's literally just theorizing that Erdrick is not in, because apparently only unreliable leakers are saying he's in (Verg and Tansut already kinda debunks this), and that he can't possibly be brave, because apparently, the chibi design is a no-go, or something.

And in the process, they're claiming that we're getting Sora, instead, for... some reason

Bias at it's absolute finest

Billy is really good at implying a strong point and then burying it in bias and never really explaining what he means so you never really fish out his argument.

He often does have good trains of thoughts so I like to theorize based on his theories. He's biased, but more substantial than most others (safe for Papagenos).

Haven't seen this one though

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

It does make them evil.
Believing Hitler did nothing wrong is an extremely evil opinion.

It is a gut feeling, but Sakurai is a good person. Would he really hire people without thinking about them?

Oh I’ll agree with that certainly. I was more so referring to people who just say it never happened.

 

[PsySmasher]

I do not think Sakurai has hired people that have had bad political views, though.

While it would be good for him to get exposed to the west more as a bad person, he would also be credited in a game I love and a game that everyone loves. Minecraft erased Notch from the title screen, because it must be for all audiences.

That still makes it really bad. The Japanese did a ton of terrible things during WW2.

*Sigh*

Shiny, before this debate continues any further, I want to address you.

I, for the longest time, have been extremely skeptical of Erdrick's chances. Multiple people here can back that up.

I still think his chances are overrated, but it's definitely in the realm of possibility.

Are you trying to prove that he's unlikely or that he's not coming at all?

Beause those are two very different arguments.

And the arguments you are presenting aren't supporting either of them.

 

[Deleted member]

I do not think Sakurai has hired people that have had bad political views, though.

I have given you proof that Nintendo, who chose the DLC and is the company Sakurai works for, has worked with Sugiyama before. Now where is your evidence that Sakurai has not worked with a person with "bad political views."

 

[Deleted member]

i have amassed ten thousand posts

my soul is now trapped on this hellsite
View attachment 205326
y'all gonna have to live with these ****posts forever now

I love your posts, so I will gladly live with them forever.

 

[Iridium]

My brain is hurting at this all.

 

[Wyoming]

Err...Aren't we supposed to avoid this kind of talk? It doesn't seem like it'll do anything but start problems...

Perhaps it would be best to move on to a different topic?

You are right.

Let us discuss why x is a shoe-in for the 17th time with essays.

 

[Noipoi]

I never wanna hear you say I want it that way