Social Ultimate Social Thread: Under Construction. Be Back Soon!

[NonSpecificGuy]

Lovin' the new poll.

Glad to see there's an even number of people loving the Devil May Cry 5 reference and telling me to shut up.

 

[Hinata]

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View attachment 203758
Once again, your argument is based on opinions and circumstantial evidence. Several of your points hold no water, so let us take the time to go through each and every one of them, shall we?

Spoiler

"Codename Brave"

Your argument for this point is that Brave does not match the parameters for someone like Erdrick, and is too generic a term to attribute to any one character, correct? However, let us look at it this way. The character we are specifically talking about when we refer to Erdrick is the protagonist of Dragon Quest III. Said character is of average height and build, equating to about the size of a teenager. With that in mind, I would say it is quite likely for them to have all the stats you have listed. A teenager would certainly be slower than a child (Young Link). Furthermore, the reason we have linked "Brave" to this particular version of Erdrick is because their Japanese name translates to Brave, as you have mentioned. Such a fact cannot be denied.

"Leaking"

Leakers are naturally going to disagree. Not all of them have the same info, and some either have no info at all and simply wish to mislead us, or are being fed lies without even realizing that fact. As such, I agree that we cannot trust most leakers. However, those with clear track records have given their reasons as to why Erdrick will be in Smash. To get into specifics, your assertion that Vergeben getting the Link's Awakening remake wrong means very little in the grand scheme of things. One mistake does not erase the myriad of other things he has gotten right. Ken and Incineroar being the final two characters, Simon and Ridley being in the game, and so forth. While yes, he has not, to my knowledge, named any specific character in his claims of "a Square Enix character is coming", I believe the evidence that points to Erdrick without Vergeben's word is reason enough to assume Erdrick is who he refers to.

"Marketing and Fanservice"

Sakurai had a say in what characters would be added as DLC to Ultimate, yes, but he did not create the list himself. The list of potential characters was bestowed unto him by Nintendo, and he simply chose from who was listed. Furthermore, a character being "unpopular in the West" means nothing. A character being unpopular in any given region means nothing. First off, Smash is developed in Japan, so obviously Sakurai will have his home country's interests in mind first and foremost. Second, characters such as Shulk in Smash 4, Marth and Roy in Melee, and Dark Samus and King K. Rool in Ultimate shows that Sakurai is willing to add characters that will appeal primarily to a single market. Furthermore, I would say Erdrick counts as "unexpected", since, as you have listed, many Westerners do not know of the character. Tell me, would you expect a character you have no knowledge of?

"Complications"

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All I'll say here is that Square being stingy with one property does not mean they will be completely and utterly adverse to adding another. Cloud's lackluster inclusion has no bearing on Erdrick's chances.

"You'll never see it coming"

Using Joker's reveal as a basis for your argument seems foolish. Furthermore, the idea that Nintendo would add data for an entire character simply to throw off dataminers is even more foolish. You speak of the same company that added Roy and Ryu's data to Smash 4 in an update well before they were supposed to be added, and saw no problem. Clearly, they have not learned from that mistake, and those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. This was simply another unfortunate case of them adding a character to the game's data before they were ready to reveal them, only this time they tried to be coy and put them in under a codename, as if that would help matters at all.

View attachment 203769

In conclusion, your argument relies on second-hand accounts, personal assumptions, and evidence you cannot back up. While I do not think Erdrick is guaranteed, none of your reasons have swayed me in the slightest. I applaud the effort you put into this essay, however.

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And so, the prosecution rests.

Also, since counters to Shiny's posts are the talk of the hour, here's mine again. It's not as good, but I'm proud of the effort I put into it.

 

[Penroze]

The S stands for Squidward.

 

[staindgrey]

With that said I'll have to look back and prioritize my outlook on Smash and what Characters I want, I really want Geno badly but I feel like he's at the worst position to be in when it comes to DLC and his chances. It's at an all-time low for Smash Ultimate to say the very least.

I don't know if I should push for him or not, I may want to push Banjo more than I do in that case cause he's leagues more likely than Geno.

Maybe I want to expand my horizons and look for other Characters to root for as most of my other wants have no Chance (Duster and Jimmy T.) or are deconfirmed (Isaac, Skull Kid, Etc.).

I'll have to change my priorities in that case.

Geno's not impossible. But you need to keep your hopes realistic.

He has more of a chance than, say, Jace from Gears of War 3. Why? Because Jace was only in Gears 3 and they didn't even bother bringing him back for Gears 4, and Gears is Marcus Fenix's game; adding anyone other than him would be bizarre.

Geno may be unlikely, but, he's unique, has a history with Mario and has no one from his game to upstage him. Whatever percent chance he has at being DLC, it's at least not zero like many other characters.

 

[Koopaul]

You can't put aside bias.

Every action you take and every thought you have is a result of some form of bias. From the type of home you grew up in to your taught family values. From the entertainment you enjoy to the entertainment you've been exposed to. You look at life through your own personal lens and, while you can take up a profession that requires you to be impartial and learn to separate your work and personal lives, the very way you see things is a result of your own biases.

It's not necessarily negative. Just something to keep in mind when looking at these things. I never would have guessed Joker, not in a million tries. You know why? I don't play Persona. I didn't even know his name was Joker. I only found out through this forum that SMT and Persona aren't the exact same thing.

Why can't I guess the whole fighters pass? Because not the whole fighters pass will cater to my tastes. Smash fans would do well to remember that.

While bias can have an impact I atleast try not to let that influemce me when speculating. Most of the characters I want or every wanted I always knew were unlikely and never counted on them. I usually try to base my speculations based on things Sakurai has said on why certain characters were chosen for the game. I also take note on when certain characters get in the game but Sakurai made it seem like it was a challenge to do.

Like for example, Ridley was quite clearly a challenge. It was obvious from the Wii U that Sakurai struggled to realize him as a character but thanks to incredible fan demand he finally made it. What does that mean? If certain characters are too difficult to make it is unlikely they will get in the game unless fan demand is on a massive enough scale. This is kind of how my speculation works. Maybe bias is still influencing me. But I was always a Ridley suppprter but I acknowledged the odds were stacked against him.

 

[Deleted member]

On the topic of Smash and DLC fighters, if I could promote anyone in a way to convince y'all, here's my thoughts. Who should you support? Banjo & Kazooie!
Why? Lemme tell ya!

• uhhh good music?
• uhhh more animals?
• uhhh I guess notable leakers?
• The whole reason for this account.

I rest my case, now go and support the bear and bird! totally not because of a bet or anything!

 

[Penroze]

On the topic of Smash and DLC fighters, if I could promote anyone in a way to convince y'all, here's my thoughts. Who should you support? Banjo & Kazooie!
Why? Lemme tell ya!

• uhhh good music?
• uhhh more animals?
• uhhh I guess notable leakers?
• The whole reason for this account.

I rest my case, now go and support the bear and bird! totally not because of a bet or anything!

I have literally no past or current connections to Banjo-Kazooie. I have never played a Banjo-Kazooie game. I have never had the intent of playing a Banjo-Kazooie game. I'm not even interested in the characters Banjo or Kazooie.
But I still really want them in...

 

[DevaAshera]

Gimme PSG season 2. Ugh.

If that's Panty & Stocking with Garterbelt..I sadly doubt it'll ever happen considering almost all of the talent at Gainex went and formed Studio Trigger instead, including PSG's creators, so if they did a season 2, it probably wouldn't be very good unless they commissioned Trigger to do it.

The S actually stands for Salt, because I'm going to ****ing die before Atlus remembers they have any other games.

Atlus remembers they have other games. Various Etrian Odyssey games, Dragon Crown Pro, SMT Strange Journey Redux, and Catherine Full Body have all released between Persona 5 and now.
However, its still not really Persona's or Atlus' fault Shin Megami Tensei V hasn't gotten more information out or released yet considering the Persona and the Shin Megami Tensei Teams are different..so its the SMT team's 'fault', as it were, for not getting it done fast enough.
Honestly, to be upset at Persona for no SMTV info is like being upset at Yakuza for no Bayonetta 3 info or NieR Automata for no Final Fantasy VII Remake info.

That said, I can very much understand why Atlus would promote Persona so much..its by and far their most popular series, so it makes sense that they'd promote it more similarly to how Nintendo promotes Mario more then any other series, even Zelda, aside from maybe Pokémon..but that also has its own Company and massive popularity behind it.

 

[Deleted member]

Geno's not impossible. But you need to keep your hopes realistic.

He has more of a chance than, say, Jace from Gears of War 3. Why? Because Jace was only in Gears 3 and they didn't even bother bringing him back for Gears 4, and Gears is Marcus Fenix's game; adding anyone other than him would be bizarre.

Geno may be unlikely, but, he's unique, has a history with Mario and has no one from his game to upstage him. Whatever percent chance he has at being DLC, it's at least not zero like many other characters.

I'll be the first to admit it, Geno is super unlikely. He's not a 0% chance nor even a 5% but it's drastically lower than his perceived chances for base game I would give him a 20% chance maybe and 40% on a good day.

That said the situation he is in is both a good thing and a bad thing, He's a unique piece of history from the Mario franchise like you said and he could represent the last big Square-Nintendo crossover before the fallout between the two and it being sweet irony if he ever did get in it would wrap things up (even though that's not necessarily a point for or against him.)

His unique status is also bad for him because the legal rights are very messy for him and Square doesn't care about anything except for their relevant franchises.

So yeah he's not impossible but he's not necessarily likely either, Erdrick is drastically more likely than Geno but Geno is not impossible.

Anyways I'll need to rethink my priorities for whom I want in Smash though I may still be able to root for Geno. Any suggestions on any games I should play? cause I might root for the main character or some character from those games if I like them.

 

[Shroob]

If that's Panty & Stocking with Garterbelt..I sadly doubt it'll ever happen considering almost all of the talent at Gainex went and formed Studio Trigger instead, including PSG's creators, so if they did a season 2, it probably wouldn't be very good unless they commissioned Trigger to do it.

Atlus remembers they have other games. Various Etrian Odyssey games, Dragon Crown Pro, SMT Strange Journey Redux, and Catherine Full Body have all released between Persona 5 and now.
However, its still not really Persona's or Atlus' fault Shin Megami Tensei V hasn't gotten more information out or released yet considering the Persona and the Shin Megami Tensei Teams are different..so its the SMT team's 'fault', as it were, for not getting it done fast enough.
Honestly, to be upset at Persona for no SMTV info is like being upset at Yakuza for no Bayonetta 3 info.

That said, I can very much understand why Atlus would promote Persona so much..its by and far their most popular series, so it makes sense that they'd promote it more similarly to how Nintendo promotes Mario more then any other series, even Zelda, aside from maybe Pokémon..but that also has its own Company and massive popularity behind it.

Hey I found your icon.

 

[DevaAshera]

I'll be the first to admit it, Geno is super unlikely. He's not a 0% chance nor even a 5% but it's drastically lower than his perceived chances for base game I would give him a 20% chance maybe and 40% on a good day.

That said the situation he is in is both a good thing and a bad thing, He's a unique piece of history from the Mario franchise like you said and he could represent the last big Square-Nintendo crossover before the fallout between the two and it being sweet irony if he ever did get in it would wrap things up (even though that's not necessarily a point for or against him.)

His unique status is also bad for him because the legal rights are very messy for him and Square doesn't care about anything except for their relevant franchises.

So yeah he's not impossible but he's not necessarily likely either, Erdrick is drastically more likely than Geno but Geno is not impossible.

Anyways I'll need to rethink my priorities for whom I want in Smash though I may still be able to root for Geno. Any suggestions on any games I should play? cause I might root for the main character or some character from those games if I like them.

I'm constantly surprised by how much love and support Geno has.
When I play Super Mario RPG back in the day, he was always immediately out of the party once I got Bowser & Peach and I didn't really care about him being in the game at all since those three were the ones I knew and enjoyed having in my party...but now I'd love to see Geno.

Is it just love for Super Mario RPG..is it love for the character..or is it both?

 

[Deleted member]

I'll be the first to admit it, Geno is super unlikely. He's not a 0% chance nor even a 5% but it's drastically lower than his perceived chances for base game I would give him a 20% chance maybe and 40% on a good day.

That said the situation he is in is both a good thing and a bad thing, He's a unique piece of history from the Mario franchise like you said and he could represent the last big Square-Nintendo crossover before the fallout between the two and it being sweet irony if he ever did get in it would wrap things up (even though that's not necessarily a point for or against him.)

His unique status is also bad for him because the legal rights are very messy for him and Square doesn't care about anything except for their relevant franchises.

So yeah he's not impossible but he's not necessarily likely either, Erdrick is drastically more likely than Geno but Geno is not impossible.

Anyways I'll need to rethink my priorities for whom I want in Smash though I may still be able to root for Geno. Any suggestions on any games I should play? cause I might root for the main character or some character from those games if I like them.

Even if I'm playing FFVII at the moment, ever since I played Final Fantasy IX, after I got done with it, I moved on from the Geno Gang to the Zidane Tribe. I really recommend it and it's worth every penny.

Also for Dark Messenger in Smash Ultimate's OST.

 

[Koopaul]

If there's one thing I learned it's that no character is impossible. None. However some characters have more hurdles in front of them. I know that 3rd party characters have legal hurdles and even Sakurai himself questioned whther or not they could get Cloud. But I think Sakurai is willing to jump those hurdles if he thinks those characters are worth it. I know he thought Cloud was worth it, because he's one of the most iconic video game characters of all time. So you have to ask yourself: "How big is the hurdle for this character? And will Sakurai be willing to jump for it?"

 

[Deleted member]

I'm constantly surprised by how much love and support Geno has.
When I play Super Mario RPG back in the day, he was always immediately out of the party once I got Bowser & Peach and I didn't really care about him being in the game at all since those three were the ones I knew and enjoyed having in my party...but now I'd love to see Geno.

Is it just love for Super Mario RPG..is it love for the character..or is it both?

There's no specific reason for the love people have for the Character as it differs from Person to Person. I assume most of it is because people love the game and the unique and charming feel the game brings.

It has Unique Characters, Locations and a Unique story that the Mario Franchise hasn't seen since then and I think people are appealed to that. I love the game and the Characters cause they're unique from what the rest of the Mario franchise has to offer.

Geno is a Stoic yet Dorky Character with a Design we haven't seen the likes of since SMRPG.

Mallow has a unique Look and Feel to the Character that some people are really attracted to.

The NPC's and bosses all have a unique look and feel to them too. The Game over-all isn't something we've seen the likes of since SMRPG, It's Unique feel is appealing to people and most can agree that Geno would be the best representative of that.

Even if I'm playing FFVII at the moment, ever since I played Final Fantasy IX, after I got done with it, I moved on from the Geno Gang to the Zidane Tribe. I really recommend it and it's worth every penny.

Also for Dark Messenger in Smash Ultimate's OST.

I don't know I feel like the only Square rep I'll ever support is Geno. Maybe Sora or Erdrick if something unexpected happens but Geno has a unique feel that separates him from the rest of the Square Characters, It's the Mario feel mixed with a hint of Square that makes me appealed to the Character. He has a Unique Personality, Design and Character that neither Square nor Nintendo could replicate.

I feel like if I don't support Geno I won't support any other Square Character and that I'll just move on from Square in it's entirety, I don't care much about Square I just care about Geno.

 

[Gentlepanda]

so i don't know when this happened and don't particularly feel like looking too far back, but did we mention P5S getting more info on the 25th

edit: i see we did, carry on folks

 

[Idon]

Atlus remembers they have other games. Various Etrian Odyssey games, Dragon Crown Pro, SMT Strange Journey Redux, and Catherine Full Body have all released between Persona 5 and now.
However, its still not really Persona's or Atlus' fault Shin Megami Tensei V hasn't gotten more information out or released yet considering the Persona and the Shin Megami Tensei Teams are different..so its the SMT team's 'fault', as it were, for not getting it done fast enough.
Honestly, to be upset at Persona for no SMTV info is like being upset at Yakuza for no Bayonetta 3 info.

That said, I can very much understand why Atlus would promote Persona so much..its by and far their most popular series, so it makes sense that they'd promote it more similarly to how Nintendo promotes Mario more then any other series, even Zelda, aside from maybe Pokémon..but that also has its own Company and massive popularity behind it.

Let me rephrase, any original games.

As much as I love playing updated ports of games released prior (unironically, I've bought both DSJ ans RHPC), they don't exactly whet my appetite for what Atlus can actually do, especially when the Pro version of Dragon's Crown is mostly a Vanillaware game. (Disregarding EON which I'm only aware of its reused assets and being a big remix of previous games on top of its own thing)

Make no mistake, waiting is completely fine. P5, took 3-4 years past announcement to exist. My issue is purely a marketing one, especially considering P5 and other games have at the VERY least maintained a once-a-year trailer if not more trailer release with plenty of interviews and news between. The only exception being TMS#FE, which isn't a very hopeful standard considering its end product.

The fact that we have seen multiple games announced, released, and teased for the future of just Persona 5 spinoffs alone with zero news, future dates, or even developer comment on a game franchise that is getting its first mainline console release in 15 years is both worrisome and irksome, especially considering its last game in the franchise was a budget 3DS title that couldn't afford to make 3D models or even get concept art standardized. That seems to imply a level of far less attention and money being spent on that project.

(Also the gap between Bayo 3 has been about a year less so I'm not feeling the same drought quite just yet. At least I have knowledge Astral Chains exists)

 

[Icedragonadam]

The S stands for Persona 5 Ahhh Shaddup with this off topicness!!

 

[Idon]

The S stands for Persona 5 Ahhh Shaddup with this off topicness!!

>Joker is coming in April
>P5R and P5S are also coming in April
It's relevant, bay-beeeeeeeee

 

[Deleted member]

Sup my bros, what are we discussing? Seeing a lot of lengthy posts here.

 

[DevaAshera]

Let me rephrase, any original games.

As much as I love playing updated ports of games released prior (unironically, I've bought both DSJ ans RHPC), they don't exactly whet my appetite for what Atlus can actually do, especially when the Pro version of Dragon's Crown is mostly a Vanillaware game. (Disregarding EON which I'm only aware of its reused assets and being a big remix of previous games on top of its own thing)

Make no mistake, waiting is completely fine. P5, took 3-4 years past announcement to exist. My issue is purely a marketing one, especially considering P5 and other games have at the VERY least maintained a once-a-year trailer if not more trailer release with plenty of interviews and news between. The only exception being TMS#FE, which isn't a very hopeful standard considering its end product.

The fact that we have seen multiple games announced, released, and teased for the future of just Persona 5 spinoffs alone with zero news, future dates, or even developer comment on a game franchise that is getting its first mainline console release in 15 years is both worrisome and irksome, especially considering its last game in the franchise was a budget 3DS title that couldn't afford to make 3D models or even get concept art standardized. That seems to imply a level of far less attention and money being spent on that project.

(Also the gap between Bayo 3 has been about a year less so I'm not feeling the same drought quite just yet. At least I have knowledge Astral Chains exists)

True enough..though I'm wondering if that was lack of money or lack of interest on Atlus/SMT Team's part.
I'm curious if the SMT series is just not doing well financially..if it perhaps needs a Fire Emblem Awakening style revival of interest.
Considering they once used its name to help promote the English releases of Persona titles, like Persona 3 & 4 being released as Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3 and Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 4 originally, it had to have been a fair enough seller here at some point but interest waned.
Granted, I also forsee a similar fan reaction to the series if it gets a Fire Emblem Awakening-esque revival to get broader appeal..though I bet they could probably get more interest in it by having a crossover of some sort akin to the situation that spawned the "Featuring Dante from Devil May Cry" meme, but that would still be a polarizing decision.

 

[Deleted member]

Sup my bros, what are we discussing? Seeing a lot of lengthy posts here.

I and a few others were discussing Bias which turned into me discussing about how I should change my priorities for my Wanted Characters which turned into what I should do with my support for Geno.

Everyone else is just ****posting and talking about Persona/SMT.

 

[KarneraMythos]

Sup my bros, what are we discussing? Seeing a lot of lengthy posts here.

The S virus overtook the thread. Getting a bit of a deja vu there, eh?

 

[Idon]

The S virus overtook the thread. Getting a bit of a deja vu there, eh?

Persona 5 S stands for Saturation.

"Complete. Global. Saturation"

 

[osby]

True enough..though I'm wondering if that was lack of money or lack of interest on Atlus/SMT Team's part.
I'm curious if the SMT series is just not doing well financially..if it perhaps needs a Fire Emblem Awakening style revival of interest.
Considering they once used its name to help promote the English releases of Persona titles, like Persona 3 & 4 being released as Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3 and Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 4 originally, it had to have been a fair enough seller here at some point but interest waned.
Granted, I also forsee a similar fan reaction to the series if it gets a Fire Emblem Awakening-esque revival to get broader appeal..though I bet they could probably get more interest in it by having a crossover of some sort akin to the situation that spawned the "Featuring Dante from Devil May Cry" meme, but that would still be a polarizing decision.

SMT IV and Apocalypse already felt like series making an attempt to attract broader audience ala Awakening: Streamlined mechanics, more exposition on world building, more focus on characters etc. But the marketing wasn't enough.

As for whether it's a lack of money or interest... don't want to speculate about developers' feelings, so I'll go with money. SMT merchandise is few and far in-between and series don't have much conventional spin-offs. Persona 5 made possible thanks to multiple side-games, numerous media adaptations and a ton of P4/P3 merchandise.

Persona 5 S stands for Saturation.

"Complete. Global. Saturation"

Wait until you hear about this thing called Pokemon.

 

[KarneraMythos]

Persona 5 S stands for Saturation.

"Complete. Global. Saturation"

Well it's still Capcom, so it checkS out.

Edit: Oh hey, my first 1337 comment. I feel like a true Maverick Hunter!

 

[Gentlepanda]

so what's the actual layout of the concert? i'd always assumed it was just on the 24th and had announcements stacked throughout, but then P5S is scheduled for the second day on the 25th

 

[Deleted member]

Anyways, the S stands for SDear god Atlus what the **** is your fetish for making people wait holy ****.

 

[KarneraMythos]

Funnily enough, the thread abruptly slowed down.

 

[Idon]

Well it's still Capcom, so it checkS out.

Edit: Oh hey, my first 1337 comment. I feel like a true Maverick Hunter!

Y'know what I expected only staindgrey to get that reference, so hats off to you.

Anyway, fulfull your duty as the resident X fan and hunt down the resident Maverick Sigma fan @Onereasonanddone .

 

[osby]

Funnily enough, the thread abruptly slowed down.

That's too bad, now who will finish the joke that thread title started?

 

[Deleted member]

That's too bad, now who will finish the joke that thread title started?

A Noipoi, Osby, and NonSpecifcGuy walk into a bar. Noipoi is immediately kicked out because he’s 17 and the legal drinking age is 21.

 

[KarneraMythos]

That's too bad, now who will finish the joke that thread title started?

A Noipoi, Osby, and NonSpecificGuy walk into a bar...

 

[Diem]

Persona 5 S stands for Saturation.

"Complete. Global. Saturation"

I've never played Persona or Resident Evil 5, but if there was a Persona game starring Albert Wesker, I'd be so down for that ****

 

[Idon]

I've never played Persona or Resident Evil 5, but if there was a Persona game starring Albert Wesker, I'd be so down for that ****

The trench-coat warfare would be too much for mortal eyes. No one could comprehend the high fashion on display.

 

[Ultomato]

Noone:
Litterally Noone:
Actually absolutely Noone:
Trust me, Noone:
DC comics:

 

[PLATINUM7]

Noone:
Litterally Noone:
Actually absolutely Noone:
Trust me, Noone:
DC comics:
View attachment 203811

I don't know how a sentient street is more ridiculous than sentient planets that comics have done but it is.

 

[Shroob]

Noone:
Litterally Noone:
Actually absolutely Noone:
Trust me, Noone:
DC comics:
View attachment 203811

Don't mind me.

I'm just waiting on the asteroid to take us all out.

 

[Penroze]

Noone:
Litterally Noone:
Actually absolutely Noone:
Trust me, Noone:
DC comics:
View attachment 203811

 

[Deleted member]

Noone:
Litterally Noone:
Actually absolutely Noone:
Trust me, Noone:
DC comics:
View attachment 203811

You sure you didn't take this from the Jojo wiki?

 

[Ultomato]

You sure you didn't take this from the Jojo wiki?

Insert joke about him becomming Danny the Ambulance at some point