Social Ultimate Social Thread: Under Construction. Be Back Soon!

[staindgrey]

Oh. Reggieboards is over.

I missed it.

 

[PLATINUM7]

It took me a minute to remember the context of what that line refers to and... yeah.

Jesus.

So, that whole part with Dyne and Barret. All I can say is that genuinely, that was powerful.

Now I'm starting to get to the parts where people say this game is really good, cause **** man. That definitely is a classic I won't forget.

It's not uncommon for FF characters to think they're providing a favour doing things like that but I think it's more imapctful here given the relationships between all the characters.

If what I said is confusing, I kept things vague to avoid spoiling things for anyone.

That said, it is a rather small part of the game and perhaps unfairly, largely forgettable. Still, it's character and world building like that which often shine in FF games.

 

[Idon]

Anyway, that leaves Persona 5 M and Persona 5 B for trademarked Persona 5 titles that haven't been announced yet-

on top of the oft rumored "Persona 5 Ultimax" fighting game developed by Arc Sys.

 

[Shroob]

And so Reggieboards come to an end.

And yet I'm still a weird ****ing cat.

 

[PsySmasher]

https://p5s.jp/

Another new P5 project has been confirmed to have information coming this month.

Either Persona 5 Switch or Persona 5 Arena comes to mind.

They could also announce something completely new as well.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Anyway, that leaves Persona 5 M and Persona 5 B for trademarked Persona 5 titles that haven't been announced yet, on top of the oft rumored "Persona 5 Ultimax" fighting game developed by Arc Sys.

Persona 5 Maker for Switch and Persona 5 Battle Royale for PC/Mobile. Calling it now.

 

[Idon]

Either Persona 5 Switch or Persona 5 Arena comes to mind.

They could also announce something completely new as well.

Personally, I don't think it's Persona 5 Arena considering the multiple leaks that are talking about the arena being "Persona 5 Ultimax" and how Arcsys are currently too busy with Granblue Fantasy Versus at the moment to work on that just right now.

 

[QuiqueST]

Not one for baseless assumptions, but it has to be Persona 5 Switch, right?

Noipoi begins to shake in hype.

 

[osby]

Anyway, that leaves Persona 5 M and Persona 5 B for trademarked Persona 5 titles that haven't been announced yet, on top of the oft rumored "Persona 5 Ultimax" fighting game developed by Arc Sys.

One of them can be a fighting game, I guess. Though I imagine it'd be p5u.

And so Reggieboards come to an end.

And yet I'm still a weird ****ing cat.

You're an adorable cat.

 

[Shroob]

One of them can be a fighting game, I guess. Though I imagine it'd be p5u.



You're an adorable cat.

D-doshio, senpai....



Oof that was cringe-worthy to type.

 

[Hinata]

Ohohohoho, your girl Hinata has some even better info for y'all. Apparently, there's a "calling card" hidden in the P5S website. And a translation of the card (thanks to MysticDistance on Twitter) reads as follows.

"We will show you new Phantom Thieves that will overturn the world's cognition and perceptions. We are vigorous with voices that seek satisfaction."

"new Phantom Thieves"

 

[MainJPW]

And so Reggieboards come to an end.

And yet I'm still a weird ****ing cat.

That cat may look like someone’s grandma, but I hope it found a nice home.

 

[Deleted member]

Ohohohoho, your girl Hinata has some even better info for y'all. Apparently, there's a "calling card" hidden in the P5S website. And a translation of the card (thanks to MysticDistance on Twitter) reads as follows.

"We will show you new Phantom Thieves that will overturn the world's cognition and perceptions. We are vigorous with voices that seek satisfaction."

"new Phantom Thieves"

That's cool and all but I won't be able to play any Persona 5 stuff unless they port P5 to Switch so hurry up already Atlus!

 

[Idon]

Ohohohoho, your girl Hinata has some even better info for y'all. Apparently, there's a "calling card" hidden in the P5S website. And a translation of the card (thanks to MysticDistance on Twitter) reads as follows.

"We will show you new Phantom Thieves that will overturn the world's cognition and perceptions. We are vigorous with voices that seek satisfaction."

"new Phantom Thieves"

Interesting, a potential ARG.

 

[Deleted member]

DaybreakHorizon
It is time.

Spoiler: Improved Essay

Ever since that “Brave” leak, predictability for the next DLC character increased, or so they say.



Codename Brave: A user named “jam1garner” datamined Ultimate to find a character named “Brave”. Brave can be anything, but it has been closely related to Erdrick, because of a “Brave” class in that Japanese Dragon Quest game. Apparently they can not wall jump, are heavier than Mii Sword Fighter but lighter than Mega Man, and is slower than Young Link, but faster than Kirby. You could point to it being “armor Erdrick”, but armor is usually slow, and Young Link is fast. It can be linked to “child Erdrick”, but I do not think Erdrick as a child can not be heavier than Mii Sword Fighter. I think Brave can be a lot of stuff, like Edea or Agnes. “Brave” is quite a vague word. It is a name of a class in that Dragon Quest name, but Brave is a lot of things too. Codenames are supposed to be only loosely tied, not too connected to the character. “Brave” is actually a really loose term that we do not know if they are using it to describe a character’s actions in that game, a character’s personality or title. A lot of characters can connect to “Brave”. Sans is brave for fighting Frisk at the Genocide Route, knowing that he will eventually die. Geno was inspired by Pinocchio, and Pnocchioo wants to be a real boy by being “brave”. The insiders and leakers got ahold of the “Jack” codename before we did. They were confused and did not know what to think. It was eventually settled on “Jack Frost”, as Jack Frost is the mascot of Atlus. If “Jack” was obtained before Joker, the leakers would have no clue what this would be. “Jack” can be a ton of names or references. So we can say the same about “Brave”, perhaps.





Leaking: Leakers have also went zig-zag in terms of leaking Erdrick. There is so many conflicting information throughout all of the leakers and the people, what is their to believe? Most agreed that Erdrick may be 2nd or 3rd, but Tasnut claims it will be “later”. That is pretty vague, but it hints to 4th or 5th. Two 5Chan leaks claimed that Alucia and Female Erdrick will be alternates for Erdrick. That is not really the case, because Pac-Man has one character, one stage, two songs and four spirits. Namco even took a big role in creating Smash 4 and Ultimate. In terms of the “Square list” leak, where potential representatives were shown, Dragon Quest got three representatives. Something that Kingdom Hearts or any other Square representative did not. No one in that list had more than one, and yet Dragon Quest did. That is pretty suspicious, would you think? All of these leaks are quite different and strange. Why should we think leaks are guaranteed? Only a handful have ever been right, and most of those was because of datamining. Erdrick is quite similar to one character in terms of leaking: Steve. Steve was very likely to get in according to a lot of people before Ultimate, and we did not get Steve. There has been a lot of rumors about Steve, like how Steve was in the Early Build of the game. Both have been leaked immensely, due to the circumstances they were in. To those leakers leaking Erdrick, there are some flaws. Tansut may of saw the direct early, that direct being the one in which Cloud was released in Smash 4. Tansut posted that leak a few hours before the direct. Vergeben is said to be the “most accurate leaker”, after he got a lot of characters correct. However, he got the February 2019 Direct completely wrong. Vergeben claimed there would be no remake of Link’s Awakening, and Link’s Awakening was confirmed right at the end. It was even hinted right at the beginning. We trust leakers too much in my opinion, they tend to be incorrect quite often. Polar Panda’s Source claims we will get two fan favorites. Geno fits that in a way, as he is a fanservice character. Even the most talented ones. Look how the Grinch leak went out. These were my opinions on the whole leaking process.




Marketing and Fanservice: Erdrick is not really a special “something” anyway. What I mean by is Sakurai’s choices in terms of DLC. I think Sakraui chooses options based off of promotion, fanservice, ballots, joke characters, and personal choices by Sakurai and his team. Erdrick does not really fit off of those beside promotion and perhaps personal pick, but that latter is unsure of. Dragon Quest on the Switch could be counted as promotion, but think of other games that are coming, games that we may not know, or more. Erdrick is not heavily requested or known, he would not make a “shock” in terms of the audience. Maybe in Japan, but the Westerners would really not see fit. Erdrick is not a surprise factor, and Dragon Quest is huge in Japan, but not in Europe nor the Americas. Characters like Geno, Sora and Banjo were requested so much, it would make sense to use them. Steve would truly highlight Nintendo and Xbox’s relationship. Slime is even more of an icon than Erdrick is in terms of Square. Speaking of Banjo, Sora and Geno, they would appeal to the audience more than Erdrick. They can still maintain hype in Japan, while appealing to Europe and the Americas, which helps more. Plus, they were far more requested than Erdrick was. In terms of marketing, Steve is the best choice. In terms of popularity overall and icons, there is a ton. Steve, Master Chief, Ryu Hayabusa, Doomguy, Heihachi Mishima and many more are iconic or popular choices for DLC, something that Erdrick can be applied to, but not as much. Reggie said that DLC is “Unexpected”. Erdrick is an icon in Japan. When a game of Dragon Quest releases, it is like a national holiday. Erdrick outside of the Smash Bubble would probably by the most expected Newcomers in Japan. In the Americas and Europe, people respect Dragon Quest. Dragon Quest is also the grandfather of all modern JRPGS and RPGS, as well as being influential in gaming and culture. Erdrick is so expected, that Geno, Chrono and Sora are written off, and they become unexpected. Almost all square representative at this point would be “unexpected”. Erdrick is so expected. Like he is practially a symbol for Dragon Quest, and Dragon Quest is super popular in Japan. Geno has been forgotten by many mainstream people, and never really got a revival. Sakurai is a fan of him, so Geno may be that Square representative. Or consider Sora, as KHIII was released and it could be used to promote KHIII in the Switch. Geno is not the only example. A lot of characters would be unexpected at this point, as Erdrick seems quite likely and is an icon.



Complications: Square is stingy. Cloud only has two spirits, one mii costume, one stage and two songs. Cloud got less content, as the summons from Midgar were removed. Square could drop off another character, but who? Other Square characters are easier to put in than Erdrick. Take Geno for example. Geno fits the role of being heavier than Mii Sword Fighter but lighter than Mega Man, and faster than Kirby but slower than Young Link. In Palutena’s Guidance, a Super Mario RPG reference can be found. “Megasmilax” is mentioned, which is an enemy in Super Mario RPG. Mallow’s spirit is in, as well as Geno’s spirit. That whole “Spirits as DLC or not” debate is unsolved, for now. Piranha Plant’s image is also a reference to Super Mario RPG, and Super Mario RPG’s composer is on the team as well. Geno is also easier to obtain and he would please more people worldwide. This does not only apply to Geno, as some other square characters are also relevant.




“You’ll Never See it Coming”: Joker. No one expected Joker to arrive in the Game Awards. Vergeben stated that we would get a Square representative next, but even Vergeben was blown away by Joker arriving into the scenes. Sure, someone actually datamined the game, but what if it is leak bait? What if Nintendo knew this would happen? Nintendo likes to keep things a surprise, so I think we can not expect anyone, really. Nintendo has used leakbait in the past before, for example Star Fox: Grand Prix. Same thing with Namco and Tekken 7. Okay sure, the file was found, but that was only descriptions of the character and “Brave”. We will probably not see it coming. This “Brave” leak is not as diabolical as the Roy and Ryu cutscenes being datamined, anyway.




My thoughts on Erdrick? I apologize to any Erdrick fans reading this, but in my opinion, Erdrick is not guaranteed. Despite Dragon Quest coming on the Switch, despite the leaks, we should not have the mentality that we can expect Erdrick at anytime. Persona 5 is not on the Switch as of yet, and Joker has already been confirmed. Nintendo will give us a nice and fun surprise when the next character gets revealed. These were my thoughts on “Erdrick for Smash Bros”.


Big thanks to

ShotoStar for helping me out!

Frankly mate, I dont appreciate the effort as a lot of this stuff is riddled with bad arguments, bad info and poor examples.

-Jack Frost wasn't the character that was considered by the dataminers, there was another Jack being considered. Jack The Ripper from MGS aka Raiden. Jack Frost only relation to Jack so far is that he is rumored to be part of Joker's moveset.

-If you wanted to use arguments for other characters that can be considered brave, why the hell did you moved from a Bravely default character to ****ing Geno or Sans. The examples you gave with them are ****ing stretches.

-You're giving your own interpretation to info from Tansut. He only said he will not be revealed soon back on December, dunno how long is not soon by Tansut standards.

-You're comparing characters from different companies when explaining why its impossible for Erdrick to have alts by your logic since Pac-Man has one character, one stage, two songs and four spirits. Pac-man apart from the 3 songs he has, there are a lot of Namco music tracks included from classic Namco series in addition to his like Mappy and Galaga. Pac-man also had a 2nd stage that was removed for implementation issues. Both Bayo and Cloud have alts so that doesn't make Erdrick unlikely to have them.

-Leaker-wise you're making your own suppositions facts. Tansut reliability comes from apparently having actual ties with SE as he predicted Cloud, gave the release date of Cloud and also called the Grinch leak a hoax. While his prediction is not guaranteed and you can have doubts about it, rejecting it 100% is premature given that we don't have any reasons to doubt when his track record is going well.

-Can you show me the ballot results that show what is appealing? Probably not, and the only way to go is by the online polls which are frankly unreliable as hell given Sakurai comments regarding how votes were taken and the positioning of characters. Since the reveal of K. Rool, there seems to be a sentiment from the fanbase that the polls are 100% correct. Plus Erdrick is only expected since the leaks.

-One stage is the common from third parties and DLC. The summons from Midgar are still there, and there are no Mii costumes from third parties. Do your research well or don't do it.

-You know very well that pretty much the rest of your argument is pretty much how Geno fits the stats and that how everything is supposed to be an indication that Geno is coming when you should be focusing in the possibility of the character to not be a Erdrick as you're just making a theory based on stretches and references that most likely were planned? (plus I could make an argument that the only reason why there's Geno and Mallow spirits is because they came with Cloud) Also, it doesn't take into consideration that a lot of stats are changed and don't necessarily reflect the characters 100%. Mewtwo is supposed to be heavy in the Pokemon games but here it's quite light, plus Piranha Plant stats were changed from the discovery of its files to release from being the 2nd slowest character to medium speed and that it became heavyweight just when it was released.

-If you're assuming this info was leakbait, wouldn't that make Geno's info a leakbait? This argument is again reaching, plus nobody would have seen Erdrick coming if not for the leakers. Pretty much this just becomes a conspiracy theory, it's even sillier since you end up giving up on this immediately afterwards which makes it pointless.

Finally, I'm leaning on Erdrick as very likely just like pretty much every other Erdrick fan. I doubt most of the fans are putting the 100% on him, and frankly your argument would have been better if it wasn't co-written by a pretty much biased Genofan and you actually done your research or your writing wasn't this poor. Seriously this made me facepalm a couple of times.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Didn’t do **** here so I gotta fix that


...**** y’all and peace /s

Also Makoto for Smash

 

[KarneraMythos]

Well I guess everyone who’s on a first name basis towards me just kinda started doing it

Well

It’s only @faygoshill and @Arigarmy but still

Heh, people refer to me by "Karnera" when it's the only thing they know me by. I don't know why I expect to be referred to as "Mythos" like a last name. Why do I expect formality online?

 

[PsySmasher]

Personally, I don't think it's Persona 5 Arena considering the multiple leaks that are talking about the arena being "Persona 5 Ultimax" and how Arcsys are currently too busy with Granblue Fantasy Versus at the moment to work on that just right now.

While I agree that is probably not P5 Arena, I've never been fully convinced w/ the "too busy with Granblue Fantasy Versus" argument.

To put it shortly (b/c I've talked about this multiple times in the Square thread):

Arc Sys has 2 different development "teams" for fighting games:
-One for sprite based characters (Blazblue, Persona 4 Arena, Persona 5 Arena (presumably))
-One for model-based characters (Guilty Gear, Granblue Fantasy VS (presumably))

So I'm not entirely sure that the development of one would have a major effect on the other, unless there are a lot of notable people working on both teams (although that kinda defeats the purpose of having 2 teams)

 

[Idon]

Heh, people refer to me by "Karnera" when it's the only thing they know me by. I don't know why I expect to be referred to as "Mythos" like a last name. Why do I expect formality online?

Honestly, I don't even know what a Karnera is. Google tells me nothing, and I am left in the dark.

 

[osby]

Ohohohoho, your girl Hinata has some even better info for y'all. Apparently, there's a "calling card" hidden in the P5S website. And a translation of the card (thanks to MysticDistance on Twitter) reads as follows.

"We will show you new Phantom Thieves that will overturn the world's cognition and perceptions. We are vigorous with voices that seek satisfaction."

"new Phantom Thieves"

Color me intrigued. ATLUS knows how to hype up their games with mystery.

At least, it works for me.

 

[Opossum]

Mario > Spyro
Crash > Sonic

List me off a game and I’ll tell you why I haven’t played it

Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon.

 

[Idon]

While I agree that is probably not P5 Arena, I've never been fully convinced w/ the "too busy with Granblue Fantasy Versus" argument.

To put it shortly (b/c I've talked about this multiple times in the Square thread):

Arc Sys has 2 different development "teams" for fighting games:
-One for sprite based characters (Blazblue, Persona 4 Arena, Persona 5 Arena (presumably))
-One for model-based characters (Guilty Gear, Granblue Fantasy VS (presumably))

So I'm not entirely sure that the development of one would have a major effect on the other, unless there are a lot of notable people working on both teams (although that kinda defeats the purpose of having 2 teams)

Well... could be that Atlus specifically requested Team Red take the reigns over Team Blue, or perhaps that Team Blue is still doing some stuff with BBTAG.

 

[Alternis]

https://p5s.jp/

Another new P5 project has been confirmed to have information coming this month.

Finally we're out of March!
...Now to wait through April.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh, wow. Atlus actually used their trademarks and domains. I was of the assumption that they wouldn't. Things get more interesting...

But if Atlus of all people can do it, THEN HOW ABOUT YOU TOO, SQUARE.

YOU GOT COLLECTION OF MANA RIGHT THERE. ****ING DO IIIIIIIIT.

 

[Deleted member]

Frankly mate, I dont appreciate the effort as a lot of this stuff is riddled with bad arguments, bad info and poor examples.

-Jack Frost wasn't the character that was considered by the dataminers, there was another Jack being considered. Jack The Ripper from MGS aka Raiden. Jack Frost only relation to Jack so far is that he is rumored to be part of Joker's moveset.

-If you wanted to use arguments for other characters that can be considered brave, why the hell did you moved from a Bravely default character to ****ing Geno or Sans. The examples you gave with them are ****ing stretches.

-You're giving your own interpretation to info from Tansut. He only said he will not be revealed soon back on December, dunno how long is not soon by Tansut standards.

-You're comparing characters from different companies when explaining why its impossible for Erdrick to have alts by your logic since Pac-Man has one character, one stage, two songs and four spirits. Pac-man apart from the 3 songs he has, there are a lot of Namco music tracks included from classic Namco series in addition to his like Mappy and Galaga. Pac-man also had a 2nd stage that was removed for implementation issues. Both Bayo and Cloud have alts so that doesn't make Erdrick unlikely to have them.

-Leaker-wise you're making your own suppositions facts. Tansut reliability comes from apparently having actual ties with SE as he predicted Cloud, gave the release date of Cloud and also called the Grinch leak a hoax. While his prediction is not guaranteed and you can have doubts about it, rejecting it 100% is premature given that we don't have any reasons to doubt when his track record is going well.

-Can you show me the ballot results that show what is appealing? Probably not, and the only way to go is by the online polls which are frankly unreliable as hell given Sakurai comments regarding how votes were taken and the positioning of characters. Since the reveal of K. Rool, there seems to be a sentiment from the fanbase that the polls are 100% correct. Plus Erdrick is only expected since the leaks.

-One stage is the common from third parties and DLC. The summons from Midgar are still there, and there are no Mii costumes from third parties. Do your research well or don't do it.

-You know very well that pretty much the rest of your argument is pretty much how Geno fits the stats and that how everything is supposed to be an indication that Geno is coming when you should be focusing in the possibility of the character to not be a Erdrick as you're just making a theory based on stretches and references that most likely were planned? (plus I could make an argument that the only reason why there's Geo and Mallow spirits is because they came with Cloud? Also, it doesn't take into consideration that a lot of stats are changed and don't necessarily reflect the characters 100%? Mewtwo is supposed to be heavy in the Pokemon games but here it's quite light, plus Piranha Plant stats were changed from the discovery of its files to release from being the 2nd slowest character to medium speed and that it became heavyweight just when it was released.

-If you're assuming this info was leakbait, wouldn't that make Geno's info a leakbait? This argument is again reaching, plus nobody would have seen Erdrick coming if not for the leakers. Pretty much this just becomes a conspiracy theory, it's even sillier since you end up giving up on this immediately afterwards which makes it pointless.

Finally, I'm leaning on Erdrick as very likely just like pretty much every other Erdrick fan. I doubt most of the fans are putting the 100% on him, and frankly your argument would have been better if it wasn't co-written by a pretty much biased Genofan and you actually done your research or your writing wasn't this poor. Seriously this made me facepalm a couple of times.

Okay since I helped them with the Essay I feel like it's my duty to defend them a little bit:

- That Geno example for "Brave" was my fault so I take the blame for that and I used that as a little theory someone had over on the Geno Thread. Same with the Sans thing that was a poor example on my part but I was using it solely as an Example.

-I mentioned that Insiders were confused about the "Jack" Codename before Joker was revealed and I mentioned that the closest relation to "Jack" Joker had was Jack Frost but we didn't know that before hand and so Insiders would've thought it to be a different Character like Raiden from MGS or whatever, They were likely confused about that.

- The Namco = Square comaprison was originally from my own Essay which they were inspired by so again, My Fault. They just ran with that Idea.

- I used Geno as an example quite a few times when helping them with the Essay so most of the stuff they mentioned about Geno came from me. They only mentioned Geno in relation to what would appeal to the Core Audience, Everything else was my fault.

I will admit that I am heavily Biased towards Geno and I need to work on that, I know that's one of my very severe flaws when it comes to Speculation. They probably could've done better without me you're right though I was only trying to help, It didn't work out too well I guess.

 

[Deleted member]

Let me tell you all on why the next DLC character is from the Fate series.

Spoiler

Because I said so. I'm bored, lol.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

So, if anyone wants a life waster I just watched this dude trying to catch a Cold in Metal Gear Solid 3 for 5 minutes.

 

[Deleted member]

Ohohohoho, your girl Hinata has some even better info for y'all. Apparently, there's a "calling card" hidden in the P5S website. And a translation of the card (thanks to MysticDistance on Twitter) reads as follows.

"We will show you new Phantom Thieves that will overturn the world's cognition and perceptions. We are vigorous with voices that seek satisfaction."

"new Phantom Thieves"

Biggest Plot Twist

Jane will be revealed here and wasn't the same girl we saw from The Royal trailer, this leading into a huge spiral mind****.

BUT ALL THAT AND MORE WILL BE REVEALED WHEN WE'LL HAVE MORE INFO IN JUNE, BABY! THANKS FOR YOUR 45 SECONDS AGAIN!

 

[Shroob]

I can't even talk about Atlus in my main circle of friends without them reminding me how #problematic they've been lately.

Like, dudes, I just wanna talk about Joker in Smash, that's all.

 

[Deleted member]

Okay since I helped them with the Essay I feel like it's my duty to defend them a little bit:

- That Geno example for "Brave" was my fault so I take the blame for that and I used that as a little theory someone had over on the Geno Thread. Same with the Sans thing that was a poor example on my part but I was using it solely as an Example.

-I mentioned that Insiders were confused about the "Jack" Codename before Joker was revealed and I mentioned that the closest relation to "Jack" Joker had was Jack Frost but we didn't know that before hand and so Insiders would've thought it to be a different Character like Raiden from MGS or whatever, They were likely confused about that.

- The Namco = Square comaprison was originally from my own Essay which they were inspired by so again, My Fault. They just ran with that Idea.

- I used Geno as an example quite a few times when helping them with the Essay so most of the stuff they mentioned about Geno came from me. They only mentioned Geno in relation to what would appeal to the Core Audience, Everything else was my fault.

I will admit that I am heavily Biased towards Geno and I need to work on that, I know that's one of my very severe flaws when it comes to Speculation. They probably could've done better without me you're right though I was only trying to help, It didn't work out too well I guess.

Pretty much my issue here is that while someone can make a pretty good and genuine argument regarding that brave is not Erdrick, this doesn't help when a lot of info here is being based on faulty research from whatever party. A faulty research only brings faulty results, and a lot of stuff right now are only theories that pretty much don't have that much evidence towards them either for or against.

 

[Idon]

Meanwhile SMT fanbase:

 

[KarneraMythos]

Honestly, I don't even know what a Karnera is. Google tells me nothing, and I am left in the dark.

It means nothing. It's literally my main OC's name.

 

[Shroob]

It means nothing. It's literally my main OC's name.

Wait, is that who's in your avatar?

 

[Idon]

Wait, is that who's in your avatar?

No that's a XC2 Blade.
Kasandra

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

DaybreakHorizon
Ever since that “Brave” leak, predictability for the next DLC character increased, or so they say.



Codename Brave: A user named “jam1garner” datamined Ultimate to find a character named “Brave”. Brave can be anything, but it has been closely related to Erdrick, because of a “Brave” class in that Japanese Dragon Quest game. Apparently they can not wall jump, are heavier than Mii Sword Fighter but lighter than Mega Man, and is slower than Young Link, but faster than Kirby. You could point to it being “armor Erdrick”, but armor is usually slow, and Young Link is fast. It can be linked to “child Erdrick”, but I do not think Erdrick as a child can not be heavier than Mii Sword Fighter. I think Brave can be a lot of stuff, like Edea or Agnes. “Brave” is quite a vague word. It is a name of a class in that Dragon Quest name, but Brave is a lot of things too. Codenames are supposed to be only loosely tied, not too connected to the character. “Brave” is actually a really loose term that we do not know if they are using it to describe a character’s actions in that game, a character’s personality or title. A lot of characters can connect to “Brave”. Sans is brave for fighting Frisk at the Genocide Route, knowing that he will eventually die. Geno was inspired by Pinocchio, and Pnocchioo wants to be a real boy by being “brave”. The insiders and leakers got ahold of the “Jack” codename before we did. They were confused and did not know what to think. It was eventually settled on “Jack Frost”, as Jack Frost is the mascot of Atlus. If “Jack” was obtained before Joker, the leakers would have no clue what this would be. “Jack” can be a ton of names or references. So we can say the same about “Brave”, perhaps.





Leaking: Leakers have also went zig-zag in terms of leaking Erdrick. There is so many conflicting information throughout all of the leakers and the people, what is their to believe? Most agreed that Erdrick may be 2nd or 3rd, but Tasnut claims it will be “later”. That is pretty vague, but it hints to 4th or 5th. Two 5Chan leaks claimed that Alucia and Female Erdrick will be alternates for Erdrick. That is not really the case, because Pac-Man has one character, one stage, two songs and four spirits. Namco even took a big role in creating Smash 4 and Ultimate. In terms of the “Square list” leak, where potential representatives were shown, Dragon Quest got three representatives. Something that Kingdom Hearts or any other Square representative did not. No one in that list had more than one, and yet Dragon Quest did. That is pretty suspicious, would you think? All of these leaks are quite different and strange. Why should we think leaks are guaranteed? Only a handful have ever been right, and most of those was because of datamining. Erdrick is quite similar to one character in terms of leaking: Steve. Steve was very likely to get in according to a lot of people before Ultimate, and we did not get Steve. There has been a lot of rumors about Steve, like how Steve was in the Early Build of the game. Both have been leaked immensely, due to the circumstances they were in. To those leakers leaking Erdrick, there are some flaws. Tansut may of saw the direct early, that direct being the one in which Cloud was released in Smash 4. Tansut posted that leak a few hours before the direct. Vergeben is said to be the “most accurate leaker”, after he got a lot of characters correct. However, he got the February 2019 Direct completely wrong. Vergeben claimed there would be no remake of Link’s Awakening, and Link’s Awakening was confirmed right at the end. It was even hinted right at the beginning. We trust leakers too much in my opinion, they tend to be incorrect quite often. Polar Panda’s Source claims we will get two fan favorites. Geno fits that in a way, as he is a fanservice character. Even the most talented ones. Look how the Grinch leak went out. These were my opinions on the whole leaking process.




Marketing and Fanservice: Erdrick is not really a special “something” anyway. What I mean by is Sakurai’s choices in terms of DLC. I think Sakraui chooses options based off of promotion, fanservice, ballots, joke characters, and personal choices by Sakurai and his team. Erdrick does not really fit off of those beside promotion and perhaps personal pick, but that latter is unsure of. Dragon Quest on the Switch could be counted as promotion, but think of other games that are coming, games that we may not know, or more. Erdrick is not heavily requested or known, he would not make a “shock” in terms of the audience. Maybe in Japan, but the Westerners would really not see fit. Erdrick is not a surprise factor, and Dragon Quest is huge in Japan, but not in Europe nor the Americas. Characters like Geno, Sora and Banjo were requested so much, it would make sense to use them. Steve would truly highlight Nintendo and Xbox’s relationship. Slime is even more of an icon than Erdrick is in terms of Square. Speaking of Banjo, Sora and Geno, they would appeal to the audience more than Erdrick. They can still maintain hype in Japan, while appealing to Europe and the Americas, which helps more. Plus, they were far more requested than Erdrick was. In terms of marketing, Steve is the best choice. In terms of popularity overall and icons, there is a ton. Steve, Master Chief, Ryu Hayabusa, Doomguy, Heihachi Mishima and many more are iconic or popular choices for DLC, something that Erdrick can be applied to, but not as much. Reggie said that DLC is “Unexpected”. Erdrick is an icon in Japan. When a game of Dragon Quest releases, it is like a national holiday. Erdrick outside of the Smash Bubble would probably by the most expected Newcomers in Japan. In the Americas and Europe, people respect Dragon Quest. Dragon Quest is also the grandfather of all modern JRPGS and RPGS, as well as being influential in gaming and culture. Erdrick is so expected, that Geno, Chrono and Sora are written off, and they become unexpected. Almost all square representative at this point would be “unexpected”. Erdrick is so expected. Like he is practially a symbol for Dragon Quest, and Dragon Quest is super popular in Japan. Geno has been forgotten by many mainstream people, and never really got a revival. Sakurai is a fan of him, so Geno may be that Square representative. Or consider Sora, as KHIII was released and it could be used to promote KHIII in the Switch. Geno is not the only example. A lot of characters would be unexpected at this point, as Erdrick seems quite likely and is an icon.



Complications: Square is stingy. Cloud only has two spirits, one mii costume, one stage and two songs. Cloud got less content, as the summons from Midgar were removed. Square could drop off another character, but who? Other Square characters are easier to put in than Erdrick. Take Geno for example. Geno fits the role of being heavier than Mii Sword Fighter but lighter than Mega Man, and faster than Kirby but slower than Young Link. In Palutena’s Guidance, a Super Mario RPG reference can be found. “Megasmilax” is mentioned, which is an enemy in Super Mario RPG. Mallow’s spirit is in, as well as Geno’s spirit. That whole “Spirits as DLC or not” debate is unsolved, for now. Piranha Plant’s image is also a reference to Super Mario RPG, and Super Mario RPG’s composer is on the team as well. Geno is also easier to obtain and he would please more people worldwide. This does not only apply to Geno, as some other square characters are also relevant.




“You’ll Never See it Coming”: Joker. No one expected Joker to arrive in the Game Awards. Vergeben stated that we would get a Square representative next, but even Vergeben was blown away by Joker arriving into the scenes. Sure, someone actually datamined the game, but what if it is leak bait? What if Nintendo knew this would happen? Nintendo likes to keep things a surprise, so I think we can not expect anyone, really. Nintendo has used leakbait in the past before, for example Star Fox: Grand Prix. Same thing with Namco and Tekken 7. Okay sure, the file was found, but that was only descriptions of the character and “Brave”. We will probably not see it coming. This “Brave” leak is not as diabolical as the Roy and Ryu cutscenes being datamined, anyway.




My thoughts on Erdrick? I apologize to any Erdrick fans reading this, but in my opinion, Erdrick is not guaranteed. Despite Dragon Quest coming on the Switch, despite the leaks, we should not have the mentality that we can expect Erdrick at anytime. Persona 5 is not on the Switch as of yet, and Joker has already been confirmed. Nintendo will give us a nice and fun surprise when the next character gets revealed. These were my thoughts on “Erdrick for Smash Bros”.

I'm not even going to kid with you. This argument is pathetic. Especially for all the hype you gave it.

Let's tear this apart.

Spoiler: Wall of Text Incoming

• Codename Brave
  • You're basically just speculating on what "Brave" could be. You fail to refute the claim that Erdrick could be Brave and claim that "Brave can be other names you guys!" In doing this, you accomplish nothing.
    • Of course we know Brave can be other names. However, the association between "Brave" and "Yuusha," the class of Erdrick/Dragon Quest Heroes, is one of the strongest connections.
    • When referring to the stats you're literally just going off of your own interpretation. There is no evidence other than your speculation. You literally use the phrase "I think." Do you think, or do you know what these stats mean? Do you even care?
    • In providing alternatives I'm surprised you failed to mention Yuri Lowell since he is the leader of "Brave Vesperia," and is the next closest codename association. Something like "Brave" being a Bravely Default character isn't out of the question, but it seems too obvious. The rest of your "parallels" are superfluous filler to prove a point you've already made.
• Leaking
  • I can't take this section seriously between all the false information and lazy argumentation.
    • Leakers haven't really been "zigzag"-ing with Erdrick. It's been the consensus for quite some time now. Similar to Incineroar and Ken before they were revealed.
    • This is just a reminder that Tansut said "I wouldn't expect a (DQ) reveal soon" 3 months ago. That's plenty of time for them to develop Erdrick, especially since Joker's gone from not having anything to being completely playable in ~4 months.
    • You didn't even quote Tansut correctly either. Don't use quotation marks if you're not quoting a statement.
    • Did you actually just take parts of @ShotoStar's argument? Like, actually. I went over most of these points with him personally and refuted them.
      • You know that Plagiarism is illegal, right? Even if @ShotoStar gave you permission you should've mentioned the ideas came from him. This genuinely makes me disappointed.
    • Regardless, comparing Bandai Namco to Square Enix is comparing apples to oranges given that they're two completely different companies. Of course Namco's going to be more restrictive with their golden boy. It doesn't mean anything for Erdrick's inclusion.

    • Why should we think leaks are guaranteed? Only a handful have ever been right, and most of those was because of datamining.

      • False. See Gematsu, Ninka/Vaanrose, ChaosZero, NyaseNya, ShadowXOR, ESRB, Vergeben, the Ken Leak, and the Piranha Plant DLC Leak
      • Furthermore, asking the reader these questions is lazy. It's your job to convince us, not the reader's.
    • Once again, you compare apples to oranges by comparing Erdrick to Steve. Steve only ever had Vergeben and Hitagi for him. Erdrick has not just Vergeben, but also Polar, Tansut, Ryce, and a living 5chan leak among others going for him. There's a difference.
      • Also since when did Polar's source say we'd get "two fan favorites?" Polar hasn't claimed anything like that to my knowledge.
        • Also, is this an argument for Geno? Because it kinda reads like one.
          • You actually plagiarized part of @ShotoStar's argument for this section.
    • Vergeben's LoZ debacle comes down to Verge trusting a faulty source at the last second. He knew about the remake and teased it two weeks prior to the direct, only saying it wouldn't be the remake a literal day before. Leakers are people, they make mistakes.
• Marketing and Fanservice
  • I feel like I'm back in the Square Enix thread fending off rabid Geno fans reading this. Not only have your arguments have already been refuted before you even posted, but you refute your own arguments.
    • You argue that Erdrick doesn't fit supposed selection criteria of "promotion, fanservice, ballots, joke characters, and personal choice," when it's easy to see how he'd fit 4 out of those 5
      • Promotion for Dragon Quest XI S in Japan and the Dragon Quest series as a whole in the West
      • Fanservice to long time fans of the series and people knowledgable about Dragon Quest (core JRPG fans)
      • Did you say Ballots? What do you mean? You don't mean to tell me you think Sakurai and his team actually look at fan polls, do you?
        • >uses fan polls as evidence
          • 
      • Given Dragon Quest's mass popularity in Japan and decent popularity in the West, it's not unreasonable to think that Dragon Quest performed better on the official Ballot than we think it did. Remember, Castlevania (and Simon) sneaked past us, and it's possible that Dragon Quest (and Erdrick) did the same
      • Sakurai himself is a fan of Dragon Quest, so I believe Erdrick would have Sakurai bias on his side as well.
    • What's even your argument? You're saying that Erdrick is unlikely because he seems likely? Did you not recognize the obvious contradiction in this?
      • Furthermore, there is no correlation between how "likely" a character is perceived to be and how likely they actually are.
    • I don't understand why you keep bringing up other characters. You're arguing why Erdrick is unlikely, not why x character is likely. By using other characters to make Erdrick seem unlikely, you really make it seem more that you just don't like Erdrick because he'd get in over your favorite.
    • >Taking marketing statements seriously
      • 
    • >Thinking that leaks make characters less unexpected in the eyes of Nintendo
      • 
      • You do realize a majority of Smash players aren't aware of leaks unless they get really big, right?
        • Especially the Japanese, whose knowledge about leaks spreads around niche communities on chan sites.
• Complications
  • Oh boy, I love me the "stingy Square Enix" argument. If I had a dollar for every time someone on this site made that claim I'd have at least enough to buy myself a copy of Dragon Quest XI S: Echoes of an Elusive Age - Definitive Edition releasing Fall 2019 for the Nintendo Switch.
    • We don't know why Cloud came with so little. For all we know it could've been that the budget for DLC characters was running low when Cloud began development (which it was) and they weren't able to get much considering how Square Enix independently contracts their artists and composers for each game (which is the opposite of stingy) and how they had to split funds between Cloud, Corrin, and Bayonetta, and when it came time for Ultimate, Sakurai and co. decided not to re-open negotiations considering they already had what was important, that being Cloud.
    • Again, this reads more like an argument for Geno. Between this and @ShotoStar's piece on the same topic he actually manages to come off as less biased. How do you be more biased than the guy who says he's biased in his own post?

    • Geno is also easier to obtain and he would please more people worldwide. This does not only apply to Geno, as some other square characters are also relevant.

      • 
      • 
      • Literally what? Where's your evidence for this? How do you know Geno would please more people worldwide? How do you know Nintendo is going for all picks with worldwide appeal?
      • As much as Geno fans don't want to admit it, Geno is a niche pick to appeal to the core fanbase. He appeals to very little outside of that. Erdrick would draw in a much larger casual crowd within the Japanese market, and that is not to be underestimated.
• "You'll Never See It Coming"
  • Cliche name aside, this section accomplishes little.
    • Again, leakers make mistakes. It is a blow to Verge that he failed to predict Joker first, but everyone was predicted a Square Enix rep at The Game Awards.
    • Did you actually link to some sources? Consider me impressed. Maybe if you'd done that for the rest of your essay it'd have been better.
    • Additionally, the point about leakbait is valid. Or at least, it would be valid if so many people with different sources hadn't all heard about Erdrick. It seems you, and most people here, don't really understand how leakbait works. Leakbait is never just a blanket misinformation campaign. It is targeted towards specific groups to prevent or discredit leaked information. The Square Enix list is leakbait. Erdrick being heard by multiple people is not.
    • You do know the saying is, "save the best for last" and not the worst, right? Why would Nintendo order Sakurai and co. to insert false data into the game for dataminers to find? That's just a hassle for the developers. Furthermore, why would Brave's data be leakbait and not Jack's, who was added shortly before Brave? The idea of Brave's data being leakbait is as asinine as this argument.

You've got a lot of work to do if you want to write good speculation pieces.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

https://p5s.jp/

Another new P5 project has been confirmed to have information coming this month.

Mm, Persona 5 S huh?

Hmmmmmmm

I wonder what S could stand for?

Y'know, there was another company that's releasing an exclusive version of a game with an added S to the title... and it's exclusive to a console that STARTS with an S

Suspicious.

 

[KarneraMythos]

Wait, is that who's in your avatar?

No, that's my wife Kasandra from Xenoblade 2. My OC's in my, errr, deviantart page. Largely outdated though since that move-set list I conducted roughly two weeks ago describes me as someone in a suit. Thus, I have plans on how to go about the redraw to move away from the high-fantasy appearance to something covert. That drawing will come about at some point... but when that is... I have no idea.

 

[Hinata]

Mm, Persona 5 S huh?

Hmmmmmmm

I wonder what S could stand for?

Y'know, there was another company that's releasing an exclusive version of a game with an added S to the title... and it's exclusive to a console that STARTS with an S

Suspicious.

Please, NSG. We all know the truth.

P5S stands for

Persona
5
Still not coming to Switch

 

[Mythra]

Imagine the Stone Cold Steve Austin entrance but with Jane instead.


If you don't know about Stone Cold, search the video.


Now imagine it.


Yeah, just that.

 

[Idon]

Mm, Persona 5 S huh?

Hmmmmmmm

I wonder what S could stand for?

Y'know, there was another company that's releasing an exclusive version of a game with an added S to the title... and it's exclusive to a console that STARTS with an S

Suspicious.

What if Jane's codename is...

Spade

BECAUSE SHE'S THE ACE IN THE HOLE.