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What are you most excited about for E3?

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Opossum said:
Chrom's recovery is absolutely not worse than Little Mac's, as someone who plays both.
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I did not say "the worse" automatically, I said the same.

Chrom can not really recovery horizontally, even with his good air speed and jumps. Mac can counter back on the stage if someone hits him.
I should of not said "worse" though.
 
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TheMightyP said:
Cloud's and Chrom's are just as bad. Cloud relies on his limit which may or may not be available to him if he got knocked of the stage, and Chrom can't recover horizontally at all. And unlike both of them, Mac's doesn't stop his momentum completely, since he can slightly move with his Up-B
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Chrom CAN move left or right during his Up-B, and you really underestimate how much aerial drift they have that Mac lacks
 
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ShinyLegendary said:
:ultchrom:'s recovery is about the same or even worse than :ultlittlemac:'s recovery in terms of making it into the stage, but at least :ultchrom: can cheese someone hard with that recovery.
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TheMightyP said:
Cloud's and Chrom's are just as bad. Cloud relies on his limit which may or may not be available to him if he got knocked of the stage, and Chrom can't recover horizontally at all. And unlike both of them, Mac's doesn't stop his momentum completely, since he can slightly move with his Up-B
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While Chrom and Cloud's Recoveries are just as bad they can at least cheese with them as both have spike/meteor effects and in terms of Cloud's recovery if you have Limit the Recovery isn't all that bad. which Mac doesn't have the privilege of having, Plus they both have some Ariel drift which Mac also doesn't have much of.
 
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Opossum

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ShinyLegendary said:
I did not say "the worse" automatically, I said the same.

Chrom can not really recovery horizontally, even with his good air speed and jumps. Mac can counter back on the stage if someone hits them.
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With Chrom, if you get hit by a strong move, you can immediately airdodge toward the stage and use your higher airspeed to coast toward your optimal recovery point. Chrom has a linear recovery and it's pretty bad, but Little Mac's is outright garbage.

Compared to Chrom, Mac has a significantly lower top air speed, a much faster falling speed, and a much lower weight. On average he not only gets sent further off-stage, but has even more trouble getting back into an optimal recovery position. No one's going to go out of their way to get into Slip Counter range when Mac won't make it back to begin with. Add in the fact that Soaring Slash can at least trade stocks while Mac can get hit out of Jolt Haymaker, and the difference is night and day.

Chrom may not have a good recovery, but Little Mac's is abysmal.
 
Idon

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TheMightyP said:
I knew that Cloud has some drift, but I was unaware about Chrom. With that said though, does it really help Chrom horizontally (like far off) since he plummets straight down anyway?
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Yeah because Chrom has a far better airspeed and disjointed recovery.
 
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TheMightyP said:
I knew that Cloud has some drift, but I was unaware about Chrom. With that said though, does it really help Chrom horizontally (like far off) since he plummets straight down anyway?
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Not TOO much, but Chrom's insane air speed means he can just kinda drift below ledge and Up-B considering how much vertical distance it covers. I'm not saying it's good by any means, if he gets hit out of his double jump he's just done, but you can't compare it to Mac at all.
 
TheMightyP

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Hm.

Then forget everything I just said.

I would argue that Incineroar has a worse recovery, since his air-speed is WAY worse, and also makes him plummet with a not so great vertical range, but then I remembered that it was buffed, and his Side-B works when he is hit out of it.
 
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Idon Idon 's point of Mac needing better air hitboxes...

The problem is that Mac's aeries not only are underwhelming, but they need a little bit more range.

The thing is, Little Mac would have noodle arms, and imagining that is funny.

Mac also needs a better landing option.
Opossum said:
With Chrom, if you get hit by a strong move, you can immediately airdodge toward the stage and use your higher airspeed to coast toward your optimal recovery point. Chrom has a linear recovery and it's pretty bad, but Little Mac's is outright garbage.

Compared to Chrom, Mac has a significantly lower top air speed, a much faster falling speed, and a much lower weight. On average he not only gets sent further off-stage, but has even more trouble getting back into an optimal recovery position. No one's going to go out of their way to get into Slip Counter range when Mac won't make it back to begin with. Add in the fact that Soaring Slash can at least trade stocks while Mac can get hit out of Jolt Haymaker, and the difference is night and day.

Chrom may not have a good recovery, but Little Mac's is abysmal.
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Good point, I will admit you are correct.

The thing is, Chrom is probably in the bottom five out of all the character's recoveries.
 
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Chrom's Up B covers all around him. The intial hit covers his whole sides and upper body and the spin covers him as a whole with a disjoint. It's easy to gimp because it's predictable and linear but Little Mac can't even say that when he's completely vulnerable to his side and Side B might as well be non-existant because lol he loses it if he gets hit.
 
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Michael the Spikester

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Everyone's talking about worst recovery yet doesn't talk about who has the best recovery.

Arguably I'd say my boi:ultkrool:has best recovery especially given it can even damage opponents above him.

And no this ain't bias talk.
 
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Knight Dude

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Little Mac has a rough go of it. If his Side-B at least refreshes if he got hit. Honestly, I think he should have his jumps be a little higher.
 
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Michael the Spikester said:
'd say my boi:ultkrool:has best recovery
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I think you forgot the fact that :ultinkling:,:ultpichu:,:ultpikachu:, :ultmetaknight: and :ultvillager: exist.

:ultvillager: and :ultkrool: are vulnerable when they recover, but :ultvillager: has better distance.

:ultmetaknight: has a handful of options to recover back on stage, and his up b can still kill you if the percent is high enough. MK can also recover in the stage just as fine as KKR can.

:ultpichu: and :ultpikachu:'s recoveries are arguably the best in this game, Good distance, quick and hard to hit.

:ultinkling:'s recovery is a far better version of :ultpit:/:ultdarkpit:'s recovery. :ultinkling: can make it back to the stage just as well as KKR can, but :ultinkling: can actually push away opponents instead of carrying them, and it is far faster. :ultkrool: can carry opponents with his propeller, but it has been nerfed, and opponents can still hit him in the side or bottom.

I almost considered :ultjigglypuff:, but I am unsure.
 
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papagenos

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As someone who plays a lot of mac.

he should have either had a bad recovery OR bad air attacks. Not both, it makes him have way too many weaknesses.

also why he has a terrible grab on top of that I do not know... I guess cause he has boxing gloves on?

honestly not sure why sakurai decided to basically over think mac "he cant attack well in the air because boxers have to be grounded, oh and he probably cant jump much at all boxers dont jump much either, and grabbing someone with those gloves on? he'd be bad at that too!" its like he didnt look at any other characters and get super realistic about specifically what they'd be BAD at, why he did it with mac i'll never know.

shoulda just been a boxing themed character not a character thats DEFINED by their weaknesses. He's my favorite playable character and its rough.
 
Iridium

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Hm, I guess I learned to appreciate :ultkingdedede: this weekend, but I still have my grudge against :ultpichu:.
 
Pakky

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I just wish they would fix online.

Also I've given up on GSP

Got to 3.8 million still no elite Smash...
 
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LetterO

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ShinyLegendary said:
I think you forgot the fact that :ultinkling:,:ultpichu:,:ultpikachu:, :ultmetaknight: and :ultvillager: exist.

:ultvillager: and :ultkrool: are vulnerable when they recover, but :ultvillager: has better distance.

:ultmetaknight: has a handful of options to recover back on stage, and his up b can still kill you if the percent is high enough. MK can also recover in the stage just as fine as KKR can.

:ultpichu: and :ultpikachu:'s recoveries are arguably the best in this game, Good distance, quick and hard to hit.

:ultinkling:'s recovery is a far better version of :ultpit:/:ultdarkpit:'s recovery. :ultinkling: can make it back to the stage just as well as KKR can, but :ultinkling: can actually push away opponents instead of carrying them, and it is far faster. :ultkrool: can carry opponents with his propeller, but it has been nerfed, and opponents can still hit him in the side or bottom.

I almost considered :ultjigglypuff:, but I am unsure.
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You forgot Dedede
 
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papagenos said:
As someone who plays a lot of mac.

he should have either had a bad recovery OR bad air attacks. Not both, it makes him have way too many weaknesses.

also why he has a terrible grab on top of that I do not know... I guess cause he has boxing gloves on?

honestly not sure why sakurai decided to basically over think mac "he cant attack well in the air because boxers have to be grounded, oh and he probably cant jump much at all boxers dont jump much either, and grabbing someone with those gloves on? he'd be bad at that too!" its like he didnt look at any other characters and get super realistic about specifically what they'd be BAD at, why he did it with mac i'll never know.

shoulda just been a boxing themed character not a character thats DEFINED by their weaknesses. He's my favorite playable character and its rough.
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Honestly I actually think Mac's design philosophy is bad game design

Not because he's low tier, but because people love Smash for it's uniqueness in that it has offstage play and focuses on the aerial game. Mac is a character designed with the philosophy of "he can't do any of that", and he's not fun to play because of it imo. You can't have a character that goes against the very fundamentals of your game's design lmao
 
Knight Dude

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Idon said:
Just give Little Mac Bardock's Rebellion spear from DBFZ.
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All I can think of when Bardock is mentioned is "PREPARE TO DIIIIE!"

And how he has some of the best move names in history. REBELLION TRIGGER being the best of them all.
 
Pakky

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faygoshill said:
Honestly I actually think Mac's design philosophy is bad game design

Not because he's low tier, but because people love Smash for it's uniqueness in that it has offstage play and focuses on the aerial game. Mac is a character designed with the philosophy of "he can't do any of that", and he's not fun to play because of it imo. You can't have a character that goes against the very fundamentals of your game's design lmao
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Well said honestly.
 
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Opossum said:
Casual reminder that Marth was actually pretty built in Shadow Dragon.
View attachment 194405
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faygoshill said:
Honestly I actually think Mac's design philosophy is bad game design

Not because he's low tier, but because people love Smash for it's uniqueness in that it has offstage play and focuses on the aerial game. Mac is a character designed with the philosophy of "he can't do any of that", and he's not fun to play because of it imo. You can't have a character that goes against the very fundamentals of your game's design lmao
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Mac is probably the character I play last.

Mac works very well for people who use the an analog stick like the c-stick for smash attacks, but if you use the c-stick for tilting, Little Mac becomes unplayable. I use the c-stick for tilting, so playing Little Mac is very hard.

Little Mac also needs a buff in his air attacks. The range and even damge output is fine, but give it more knockback.

Obviously, buff his recovery too.
 
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