Super Smash Bros. Infinite Project (Finally Finished!???)

[Wario Wario Wario]

I don't really see how a quadruped could do most of the things that RH characters tend to do... (play tennis or punch for example)

I also don't really like the idea of forcing a rhythm gimmick.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

The barista never really crossed my mind as a viable cannidate in the past, but then I saw this mock-up and I was instantly sold.

This isn't a submission btw, but I do think we could take some inspiration from this as a starting point.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

The barista never really crossed my mind for a viable cannidates in the past, but then I saw this mock-up and I was initially sold.

This isn't a submission btw, but I do think we could see heavy inspiration from this as a starting point.

Yeah, this video is pretty much the reason I voted for him. TBH I always saw a Rhythm Heaven rep as a character who would incorporate an ensemble of characters from the series in their movesets rather than just one individual one (which is why I chose Barista and Rhythm Girl because I thought they would be the best fit for those types of movesets).

 

[Golden Icarus]

The barista never really crossed my mind for a viable cannidates in the past, but then I saw this mock-up and I was instantly sold.

This isn't a submission btw, but I do think we could see heavy inspiration from this as a starting point.

Wow. It's tempting to just submit that as our entire moveset. It's pretty much exactly what I would want from a Rhythm Heaven character.

 

[Commander_Alph]

I don't really see how a quadruped could do most of the things that RH characters tend to do... (play tennis or punch for example)

I also don't really like the idea of forcing a rhythm gimmick.

Well, I mean the requirement says that we have to incorporate the rhythm gimmick and I tried my best to do that without being too flashy or heavily gimmicky

 

[GoodGrief741]

The barista never really crossed my mind as a viable cannidate in the past, but then I saw this mock-up and I was instantly sold.

This isn't a submission btw, but I do think we could take some inspiration from this as a starting point.

That is precisely the kind of moveset I wanted to avoid... It isn't really a Barista moveset if he's just summoning other characters to fight for him, and it gives the impression that you can't make a fighter for RH without it being an assortment of random attacks.

 

[Golden Icarus]

That is precisely the kind of moveset I wanted to avoid... It isn't really a Barista moveset if he's just summoning other characters to fight for him, and it gives the impression that you can't make a fighter for RH without it being an assortment of random attacks.

I get that, but the main appeal to Rhythm Heaven is all of the different minigames. You could make an interesting karate based moveset for Karate Joe, or a moveset for the Chorus Kids that utilizes them as a trio. But the true essence of Rhythm Heaven lies in all of the wacky rhythm based minigames. Having a character who can reference as many minigames as possible, while also incorporating a neat rhythm mechanic is exactly what a Rhythm Heaven character should be, in my opinion.

 

[Commander_Alph]

That is precisely the kind of moveset I wanted to avoid... It isn't really a Barista moveset if he's just summoning other characters to fight for him, and it gives the impression that you can't make a fighter for RH without it being an assortment of random attacks.

I mean Rhythm Heaven is basically just Minigame rhythm game with different assortment of character with each of them occupied a specific role (except for the monkeys) having just the Chorus Kids and Karate Joe who never really do anything outside of 1 game is just representing a tiny amount of what the series is all about and it will not really look good for the series if they just use 1 moveset based around that specific character which loses the series' charm, afterall there's no specific main character in the series and unlike ARMS they can't do the same basic stuff.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I get that, but the main appeal to Rhythm Heaven is all of the different minigames. You could make an interesting karate based moveset for Karate Joe, or a moveset for the Chorus Kids that utilizes them as a trio. But the true essence of Rhythm Heaven lies in all of the wacky rhythm based minigames. Having a character who can reference as many minigames as possible, while also incorporating a neat rhythm mechanic is exactly what a Rhythm Heaven character should be, in my opinion.

I'm not opposed to having a character that can reference tons of minigames, far from it. But there's a difference between referencing and outright spawning characters from the minigames. Any character could do that. What I meant to say is that we should have a character that has a unique identity and can pull off a cohesive moveset using those references. Otherwise the character is just a glorified hitbox that uses other characters to attack.

Plus if a character summons every important RH character in their moveset then that would have to be the sole RH character forever, and that would be kinda sad. Even if we won't be making a sequel to Infinite I think movesets should be somewhat future-proofed, to the extent of our abilities.

 

[ahemtoday]

I mean, here's the way I look at it.

I think we all agree that Rhythm Heaven is best represented not with one minigame, but by the sheer variety thereof. As far as I can tell, the disagreement on this point is on how to represent the many minigames. Personally, I'm not opposed to the summoning idea, though I think it could get a little visually crazy if done on attacks that come out too quickly.

I guess I just don't quite understand what GoodGrief741 means by "cohesion". It'll help the conversation if I give what I mean when I say cohesion, so here I go:

The best way I can define an aesthetically cohesive moveset is one where each move fits into one of a few overarching "action concepts" of what the character can do (from the perspective of someone who knows nothing about the character), with a bit of wiggle room for special moves and Final Smashes.

Spoiler: Way More Words on That than Necessary

Let me give an example: I think Bayonetta has a quite aesthetically cohesive moveset with only two of these action concepts: guns on both her hands and feet, and summoning big demons. The odd one out is Witch Time, but that's a special move. They're marked as sort of an exception from the beginning, so having a action concept exclusive to one special isn't the end of the world.

However, the Bayonetta series has a ton of different weapons besides just quadruple-guns. You could fit a lot more references in if you had her use a snake whip, or fire and lightning claws, or a katana, right? Well, that would reference a lot more stuff from the Bayonetta series, but those weapons aren't very important compared to Scarborough Fair or Love is Blue. Suddenly, you're adding more action concepts that aren't really necessary to convey who Bayo is, and it all gets a little muddled.

Now, the human mind is very good at categorizing things, and it's not as simple as "use as few weapons as possible". If you had a character whose forward tilt used a sword, and their down tilt used a scythe, and their up tilt used a spear, and so on and so on with a different medieval weapon for every attack, I don't think people would see that as forty different action concepts. They sort of all glaze over into one - this character isn't a swordwielder and a scythewielder and an axewielder; it's much easier to see them as a "master of many weapons", and all the different weapon types fold under that concept instead. In fact, if you did have a moveset like that, I'd call it very cohesive - assuming it fit the character, of course!

Now, we've had characters who use a variety of implements to attack before, Byleth uses four different strange, bonelike weapons, which are all associated with a direction. Villager uses a variety of mundane implements like slingshots, potted plants, and bowling balls. Mega Man has probably the most disparate arsenal, but they're typically fired from his arm cannon, they're usually cartoonish but still look like actual things that are intended to hurt.

I don't think an RH character can be cohesive in that way, though. The movesets I've listed all have their various elements agree on whether or not they're weapons (for Byleth and Mega Man they are, for Villager they're not). I'm not sure, however, how you can make the same character reenact Rhythm Rally and Samurai Slice. There's nothing tying those together despite source material, which we can't rely on familiarity with. I suppose we could choose only minigames with similar concepts - like all sports ones or all fighty-like ones - but I don't think that would be the best representation of the series.

As I type this, I'm coming to a realization that I think a summoning-based moveset would be more cohesive, because then we're working with the broader action concept of "summoning other characters to do their thing" rather than trying to get the audience to figure out the vibe of a character who plays table tennis and also has an iaido slice attack. Honestly, I think that's kind of the structure of RH in general - because it's portioned off into distinct minigames that share basically nothing in common, it can change its feel dramatically if it so desires. You can represent that by having different characters in Smash doing the different things.

"Okay, but why the Barista?"

It is true that you could put the summoning thing on any RH character, but I think the Barista is the absolute best choice.

In every RH game, the Barista's role is to give you advice on a minigame, and also allow you to skip minigames that are too difficult. He's effectively a Super Guide-like mechanic that the RH series turned into a character. I'm pretty sure he also lets you watch a demonstration of the minigames, too, in Fever.

So in other words, he's... kinda like another player, right? He plays the minigames for you if you find them too hard.

I'm not sure if anyone else sees it that way, but if you look it like that, I think it makes perfect sense for him to be the character leading all the others.

Also, he's a cute doggo that appears in all four games. There's that too.

 

[cashregister9]

I have a quick question before I submit my moveset.

Are we gonna have a homestage for Barista? I have a perfect idea for one.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

That Barista moveset video has tons of cool references, but is a terrible idea from a game design standpoint given the absurd disjoints.

 

[chocolatejr9]

That Barista moveset video has tons of cool references, but is a terrible idea from a game design standpoint given the absurd disjoints.

Ah, we can let future Nintendo deal with that. We're too far in the past to do anything ourselves.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I’m glad this has been “spawning” a lot of good discussion. I’ll jump in and hopefully help out explain somethings:

As for the the Rhythm mechanic ordeal, it’s hard to include a RH character and not include some sort of rhythm mechanic. That being said, it doesn’t have to be a huge elaborate affair. It could be as simple as a rhythm button push that will give Barista a stat buff.
Or utilize the neutral special that summon the Conductor who “plays” a song for which attacks inputted on the button prompt deal more damage.

As for the idea of summoning characters, we can also reuse characters to be summoned as well if we want to “future proof” the moveset. For example, up smash is the Rhythm Girl summon where she claps upwards while down tilt is a stomp forward. There’s tons of characters from RH that really we can incorporate just about anyone.

As for GoodGrief’s grief with the moveset, perhaps we can also incorporate various elements of RH not partial to one character. This includes menus and icons which would kind of “break the fourth wall”. He could also utilize various items found in the series like the Conductor Wand and such.

The hitboxes would probably be pretty disjointed and I have a feeling that Barista would be very low-tier/low hype but everyone can’t be high tier. I say we keep the hitboxes fairly close to Barista in an attempt to make it somewhat manageable.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

The hitboxes would probably be pretty disjointed and I have a feeling that Barista would be very low-tier/low hype but everyone can’t be high tier.

I don't think you understand the problem with disjoints....

 

[GoodGrief741]

I mean, here's the way I look at it.

I think we all agree that Rhythm Heaven is best represented not with one minigame, but by the sheer variety thereof. As far as I can tell, the disagreement on this point is on how to represent the many minigames. Personally, I'm not opposed to the summoning idea, though I think it could get a little visually crazy if done on attacks that come out too quickly.

I guess I just don't quite understand what GoodGrief741 means by "cohesion". It'll help the conversation if I give what I mean when I say cohesion, so here I go:

The best way I can define an aesthetically cohesive moveset is one where each move fits into one of a few overarching "action concepts" of what the character can do (from the perspective of someone who knows nothing about the character), with a bit of wiggle room for special moves and Final Smashes.

Spoiler: Way More Words on That than Necessary

Let me give an example: I think Bayonetta has a quite aesthetically cohesive moveset with only two of these action concepts: guns on both her hands and feet, and summoning big demons. The odd one out is Witch Time, but that's a special move. They're marked as sort of an exception from the beginning, so having a action concept exclusive to one special isn't the end of the world.

However, the Bayonetta series has a ton of different weapons besides just quadruple-guns. You could fit a lot more references in if you had her use a snake whip, or fire and lightning claws, or a katana, right? Well, that would reference a lot more stuff from the Bayonetta series, but those weapons aren't very important compared to Scarborough Fair or Love is Blue. Suddenly, you're adding more action concepts that aren't really necessary to convey who Bayo is, and it all gets a little muddled.

Now, the human mind is very good at categorizing things, and it's not as simple as "use as few weapons as possible". If you had a character whose forward tilt used a sword, and their down tilt used a scythe, and their up tilt used a spear, and so on and so on with a different medieval weapon for every attack, I don't think people would see that as forty different action concepts. They sort of all glaze over into one - this character isn't a swordwielder and a scythewielder and an axewielder; it's much easier to see them as a "master of many weapons", and all the different weapon types fold under that concept instead. In fact, if you did have a moveset like that, I'd call it very cohesive - assuming it fit the character, of course!

Now, we've had characters who use a variety of implements to attack before, Byleth uses four different strange, bonelike weapons, which are all associated with a direction. Villager uses a variety of mundane implements like slingshots, potted plants, and bowling balls. Mega Man has probably the most disparate arsenal, but they're typically fired from his arm cannon, they're usually cartoonish but still look like actual things that are intended to hurt.

I don't think an RH character can be cohesive in that way, though. The movesets I've listed all have their various elements agree on whether or not they're weapons (for Byleth and Mega Man they are, for Villager they're not). I'm not sure, however, how you can make the same character reenact Rhythm Rally and Samurai Slice. There's nothing tying those together despite source material, which we can't rely on familiarity with. I suppose we could choose only minigames with similar concepts - like all sports ones or all fighty-like ones - but I don't think that would be the best representation of the series.

As I type this, I'm coming to a realization that I think a summoning-based moveset would be more cohesive, because then we're working with the broader action concept of "summoning other characters to do their thing" rather than trying to get the audience to figure out the vibe of a character who plays table tennis and also has an iaido slice attack. Honestly, I think that's kind of the structure of RH in general - because it's portioned off into distinct minigames that share basically nothing in common, it can change its feel dramatically if it so desires. You can represent that by having different characters in Smash doing the different things.

"Okay, but why the Barista?"

It is true that you could put the summoning thing on any RH character, but I think the Barista is the absolute best choice.

In every RH game, the Barista's role is to give you advice on a minigame, and also allow you to skip minigames that are too difficult. He's effectively a Super Guide-like mechanic that the RH series turned into a character. I'm pretty sure he also lets you watch a demonstration of the minigames, too, in Fever.

So in other words, he's... kinda like another player, right? He plays the minigames for you if you find them too hard.

I'm not sure if anyone else sees it that way, but if you look it like that, I think it makes perfect sense for him to be the character leading all the others.

Also, he's a cute doggo that appears in all four games. There's that too.

You nailed what I mean when I speak of cohesion, I doubt I could've explained it better myself. However I disagree that it's impossible to make a cohesive moveset out of Rhythm Heaven. It might be hard, but not impossible. My suggestion would be that all the references are included in a way that it's actually the Barista using them; being a small cartoon dog, that automatically defines there's certain things he can do that wouldn't fit any other character, and would be unique within the contexts of Smash and of Rhythm Heaven.

Say for example that a move references Karate Man. Karate Joe would probably just punch a flower pot forward, but other characters might reference it in different ways. Maybe Rhythm Girl would ballet kick a bomb instead, or maybe the Chorus Kids would stack on top of each other to imitate Joe. This is just a dumb example, but I think it would be better if we looked for a way to reference the minigames in moves that are still idiosyncratic to Barista's character and design.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I don't think you understand the problem with disjoints....

I understand about the disjointed but that was a possible remedy. I honestly don’t think it’s that big of a problem but how would you address this issue and what sort of work around would you implement to avoid making them disjointed?

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I understand about the disjointed but that was a possible remedy. I honestly don’t think it’s that big of a problem but how would you address this issue and what sort of work around would you implement to avoid making them disjointed?

So you're saying you want Barista to be an intentionally bad character? That's just bad game design, I'm really not understanding you right now. Is there some miscommunication going on right now? If you're talking about how the disjoints should be closer to Barista that doesn't do much with a tiny dog who spawns humans.

The only possible solution I can think of for Barista's disjoints is shapeshifting, which does not fit him in the slightest.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Me thinks this could have been a good compromise between multiple characters and a single character. I didn't submit it since I didn't want to cannibalize votes from the Rhythm Girl or the Chorus Kids submissions, and it was just a fan concept, but yeah, multiple characters have certainly been a fixture of Rhythm Heaven speculation due to how varied and diverse the cast was.

Source

 

[ahemtoday]

You nailed what I mean when I speak of cohesion, I doubt I could've explained it better myself. However I disagree that it's impossible to make a cohesive moveset out of Rhythm Heaven. It might be hard, but not impossible. My suggestion would be that all the references are included in a way that it's actually the Barista using them; being a small cartoon dog, that automatically defines there's certain things he can do that wouldn't fit any other character, and would be unique within the contexts of Smash and of Rhythm Heaven.

Say for example that a move references Karate Man. Karate Joe would probably just punch a flower pot forward, but other characters might reference it in different ways. Maybe Rhythm Girl would ballet kick a bomb instead, or maybe the Chorus Kids would stack on top of each other to imitate Joe. This is just a dumb example, but I think it would be better if we looked for a way to reference the minigames in moves that are still idiosyncratic to Barista's character and design.

Hm. Yeah, maybe you're right. I mean, I think a summoning-based moveset should have some moves like that anyway. Jabs are way too quick for a whole 'nother character to come out during the startup.

 

[Otoad64]

I don't have a moveset idea right now, but this is pretty much how I always envisioned a rhythm gimmick working:

Hm. Yeah, maybe you're right. I mean, I think a summoning-based moveset should have some moves like that anyway. Jabs are way too quick for a whole 'nother character to come out during the startup.

I mean, does every move need to reference a minigame?

I was thinking to just do that mainly with the specials and maybe a handful of other moves

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

So you're saying you want Barista to be an intentionally bad character? That's just bad game design, I'm really not understanding you right now. Is there some miscommunication going on right now? If you're talking about how the disjoints should be closer to Barista that doesn't do much with a tiny dog who spawns humans.

The only possible solution I can think of for Barista's disjoints is shapeshifting, which does not fit him in the slightest.

No, I just don’t think it’s that big of an issue but I do understand the importance of it.

I would agree that Barista would look strange shapeshifting. So the only possibly alternative is to not allow Barista to use characters from RH, correct?

Also, sorry if I seem disconnected but I’m currently doing several things at once as we are getting ready to have people over another garage sell. I’ll probably be out again for most of the day.

 

[Golden Icarus]

I honestly think that Barista shapeshifting into different characters would work fine. Mr. Game & Watch already does this, though it isn’t as extreme. Although it may take away from Barista’s “identity” even more so than spawning characters. But like I said before, I’d prefer for this character’s identity to be more “Rhythm Heaven,” rather than “Barista.”

 

[Honest Slug]

One of the things that comes up in the Geno community is timed hits, the idea that if Geno was in Smash his attacks could do more damage if you time a second button press at the correct time.

When trying to think of a way to incorporate a rhythm mechanic in a way which was not too intrusive, this is an idea I keep going back to. I feel like some of Barista's moves could have a beat to them, and depending on whether you can press the button in a way that correlates with the rhythm of that move, the attack would be more successful. It would be a similar concept to Geno's timed hits idea, but instead of the timing relating to it hitting your opponent, it would correlate to a rhythm.

Would this be an idea worth exploring, or does anyone have a more imaginative idea? I want to get an idea if this is a concept worth exploring in a moveset before I begin to dig deep.

Edit: A problem with this could be that Barista would be unplayable to players who are deaf or have poor hearing, I think a remedy to this could to have music notes show up on his UI so that he can still be accessible to this players.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I'd like to present another topic to discuss about Barista (that could be settled by a poll): will Barista be 2D like G&W or will he be 3D?

Personally I think the flat aesthetic of RH would make a strong impact on people and might help to make the precision and fast movement required of a rhythm-based character clearer visually, but there is an argument to be made for finally translating the characters to models.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I don't have a moveset idea right now, but this is pretty much how I always envisioned a rhythm gimmick working:

I mean, does every move need to reference a minigame?

I was thinking to just do that mainly with the specials and maybe a handful of other moves

No, every move doesn’t have to be a reference. I would imagine a tilt or two, Smash attacks, specials, and a few aerials. Even then, Barista could probably also utilize a few of the items or content from these mini games personally instead of having to summon the character to use them.

I'd like to present another topic to discuss about Barista (that could be settled by a poll): will Barista be 2D like G&W or will he be 3D?

Personally I think the flat aesthetic of RH would make a strong impact on people and might help to make the precision and fast movement required of a rhythm-based character clearer visually, but there is an argument to be made for finally translating the characters to models.

I was planning on having the character be a 2D model like Game & Watch. We will probably be doing with that unless enough people object to it

 

[chocolatejr9]

I'd like to present another topic to discuss about Barista (that could be settled by a poll): will Barista be 2D like G&W or will he be 3D?

Personally I think the flat aesthetic of RH would make a strong impact on people and might help to make the precision and fast movement required of a rhythm-based character clearer visually, but there is an argument to be made for finally translating the characters to models.

Depends. Does anybody have any sort of comparison image between 2D Barista and 3D Barista?

 

[cashregister9]

Whelp, Here is my moveset. It leans into the summoning thing I feel like that fits the best ATM.

Spoiler: Long

--Gimmick--

The Barista is a 2D character

The Barista has a lot of Summons, they all appear behind them and are also 2D, When in the moveset I say “In front” or “In the back” they are still behind Barista

The Barista will bounce up and down, hitting any attacks on the beat, will increase their power, there is a speaker next to Barista's hud that also bounces in time with the attacks. For example Letting go of a smash attack on beat deals 5-10% more damage then it would normally.

Due to the complexity of changing the Barista's rhythm to match the current song, Whenever Barista is on screen a drum track is playing 70 beats per minute at 4/4 time and that is the BPM that the Barista follows. If the drum track is too distracting there is also a counter that counts up to 4 beats and an option to disable the drum track.


--Stats-

Speed: Same as Duck Hunt

Weight: Same as Duck Hunt

Fall speed: Same as Diddy Kong

Air Speed: Same as Game & Watch

Initial Dash: Same as Pikachu

Run Speed: Same as Duck Hunt

--Basic Attacks--


Jab: Muscle Doll appears and punches once and after that you hear an announcer say the word "Jab" on every off beat, timing your a-press properly Muscle Doll will punch forwards, This can go as long as you want as long as you're not damaged

Side tilt: The Wandering Samurai appears and slices forwards

Up tilt: A Cheer Reader is summoned and spins her sign above her head, the image on the sign is randomly generated from one of several other Rhythm heaven characters like Hair Vegetables and JJ Rocker among many others.

Down tilt: The Sneaky Spirit arises from the ground in front of the Barista

Dash Attack: A Widget tumbles forwards (this is an actual disjoint)

Get Up: A Sumo Brother stomps the ground around Barista

Ledge Get Up: A Tiny fork from Sick Beats, attacks a virus on the ground at the ledge

Side Smash: The Reporter Stands behind the Barista in the back of him and the Wrestler in the front, The reporter does her "Whoa you go big guy" cue from the game, Releasing the Side Smash with the proper timing the Wrestler's Arm flexes hitting the opponent and knocking them slightly upwards

Up Smash: One of the Clappy Trio appears and claps their hands above their head

Down Smash: 2 Blue Birds appear in front of and behind the barista and once the button is released they dig their beaks into the ground, grounding any opponents hit by the beak and then they're launched once the birds flip their beaks up.

Neutral air: The barista enters the background and summons a Stepswitcher and performs the pose seen in that minigame dealing damage, pressing the a button in time while in air will deal more damage on each hit

Forward Air: A Golfer from Hole In One hits their club downwards

Back Air: Baxter or Forthington will appear behind Barista and swing their racket downwards

Up Air: A Monkey Rides the Barista and Hits upwards like in Monkey Watch

Down Air: one of the See Saw characters stomps down on the ground, this is a stall and fall

--Specials--

Neutral: Karate Man, Karate Joe (Or Karate Joe Senior) Appear. If you press the button once you hit a flower pot projectile forwards, pressing the button 3 times will hit 3 projectiles in a row and holding the button will cause KJ to hit a volley of projectiles ending with a barrel that does a lot of damage and Knockback but has little range. Performing these attacks not in time with Barista's bounces will be worse. To assist with Barista's bounces there are visual and audio cues they are "1,2" "Hit 3" and "Combo"

Side: Glee Club, Holding the button causes up to 3 Chorus kids to appear in a line, letting go has them sing dealing damage.

Down: Tap Trial, The Barista recedes into the background and the Tap Trial Girl appears in the front, Tapping the B button gain once has the girl tap her left foot on the ground, dealing damage, Tapping it twice she taps her foot twice on the right side, Tapping the button 3 times has her tap her feet 3 times dealing damage on both sides, Holding the B-button has her charge up a jump and jumps in the air, dealing damage on liftoff and landing. Performing these attacks not in time with Barista's bounces will be worse. To assist with Barista's bounces there are visual and audio cues Their will be a monkey sound that is either "1" "2" "3" "Hold"

Up: Launch Party, The Barista hold onto a rocket from launch party, each rocket has timer and letting go at the right time will launch the rocket there are 4 rockets

-Red, counts down from 3 every beat

-Blue, Counts down from 5 very quickly

-Green, Counts down from 7 at a fast pace

-Grey, Counts down from 1 at a very slow pace but launches the farthest

Final Smash: Beat The Beat, The Barista drinks coffee and dashes forwards, it knocks them into a cutscene where the opponents are caught in a rainbow and pressing the B button in time with Barista's bounces will cause more and more rhythm heaven character from all across the series to appear dealing more and more damage. ending with a rainbow explosion.

--Grabs--

Basic grab: The guy from Packing Pests grabs the opponent

Pummel: Marshal jumps on the opponent's head

F-throw: The DJ Student from DJ school will Scratch the opponent forwards

B-throw: The Packing Pests guy transforms into Munchy Monk and the opponent is hit backwards

U-throw: A dough Dude launches the opponent upwards

D-throw: The fork from Fork lifter will stab the opponent into the ground

--Misc--

The Screen KO animation is the Barista's Stamp

The Barista turns into A seal from flipper flop for his roll

 

[Yiptap]

I honestly think that Barista shapeshifting into different characters would work fine. Mr. Game & Watch already does this, though it isn’t as extreme. Although it may take away from Barista’s “identity” even more so than spawning characters. But like I said before, I’d prefer for this character’s identity to be more “Rhythm Heaven,” rather than “Barista.”

I get where you're coming from, and yes, a Rhythm Heaven fighter should represent Rhythm Heaven as a whole, but I feel that a clear difference from Mr. Game and Watch and Barista is that Mr. Game and Watch's minigames can easily be recreated by himself, but for many of Barista's minigames, it would only work if the characters themselves would be summoned, as Game and Watch is basically the same Game and Watch, except he looks different. I would prefer if the minigames referenced were games that could easily be recreated by Barista himself such as Air Rally, Hole in One, The Clappy Trio, Space Soccer, etc. Shapeshifting could still work but I just think that it wouldn't feel right. But that's just my opinion, I'm just happy that Rhythm Heaven has earned a spot in this hypothetical Smash Game.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Depends. Does anybody have any sort of comparison image between 2D Barista and 3D Barista?

If I recall, there isn’t a 3D Barista that I could find. There is a render of Rhythm Girl, Clap Monkey, and Chorus Kid though.

In regards to movesets, if people want make one that fully uses the summoning aspect to the T, that’s fine. If people want to do a moveset that includes a few summoning, that’s alright to. If someone wants to make a moveset that doesn’t incorporate summoning in anyway but, instead, wants to incorporate RH content in another manner; that’s fine too. I’m also interested to see what Commander_Alph submits (besides the video as we don’t allow video submissions, we do textual content) as they put forth the character. We can then vote what we feel as a community that best represents both Barista and RH.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Whelp, Here is my moveset. It leans into the summoning thing I feel like that fits the best ATM.

Spoiler: Long

--Gimmick--

The Barista is a 2D character like Game & Watch

The Barista has a lot of Summons, they all appear behind them and are also 2D, When in the moveset I say “In front” or “In the back” they are still behind Barista

The Barista will bounce up and down, hitting any attacks on the beat, will increase their power, there is a speaker next to Barista's hud that also bounces in time with the attacks. For example Letting go of a smash attack on beat deals 5-10% more damage then it would normally.

Due to the complexity of changing the Barista's rhythm to match the current song, Whenever Barista is on screen a drum track is playing 70 beats per minute at 4/4 time and that is the BPM that the Barista follows. If the drum track is too distracting there is also a counter that counts up to 4 beats and an option to disable the drum track.


--Stats-

Speed: Same as Duck Hunt

Weight: Same as Duck Hunt

Fall speed: Same as Diddy Kong

Air Speed: Same as Game & Watch

Initial Dash: Same as Pikachu

Run Speed: Same as Duck Hunt

--Basic Attacks--


Jab: Muscle Doll appears and punches once and after that you hear an announcer say the word "Jab" on every off beat, timing your a-press properly Muscle Doll will punch forwards, This can go as long as you want as long as you're not damaged

Side tilt: The Wandering Samurai appears and slices forwards

Up tilt: A Cheer Reader is summoned and spins her sign above her head, the image on the sign is randomly generated from one of several other Rhythm heaven characters like Hair Vegetables and JJ Rocker among many others.

Down tilt: The Sneaky Spirit arises from the ground in front of the Barista

Dash Attack: A Widget tumbles forwards (this is an actual disjoint)

Get Up: A Sumo Brother stomps the ground around Barista

Ledge Get Up: A Tiny fork from Sick Beats, attacks a virus on the ground at the ledge

Side Smash: The Reporter Stands behind the Barista in the back of him and the Wrestler in the front, The reporter does her "Whoa you go big guy" cue from the game, Releasing the Side Smash with the proper timing the Wrestler's Arm flexes hitting the opponent and knocking them slightly upwards

Up Smash: One of the Clappy Trio appears and claps their hands above their head

Down Smash: 2 Blue Birds appear in front of and behind the barista and once the button is released they dig their beaks into the ground, grounding any opponents hit by the beak and then they're launched once the birds flip their beaks up.

Neutral air: The barista enters the background and summons a Stepswitcher and performs the pose seen in that minigame dealing damage, pressing the a button in time while in air will deal more damage on each hit

Forward Air: A Golfer from Hole In One hits their club downwards

Back Air: Baxter or Forthington will appear behind Barista and swing their racket downwards

Up Air: A Monkey Rides the Barista and Hits upwards like in Monkey Watch

Down Air: one of the See Saw characters stomps down on the ground, this is a stall and fall

--Specials--

Neutral: Karate Man, Karate Joe (Or Karate Joe Senior) Appear. If you press the button once you hit a flower pot projectile forwards, pressing the button 3 times will hit 3 projectiles in a row and holding the button will cause KJ to hit a volley of projectiles ending with a barrel that does a lot of damage and Knockback but has little range. Performing these attacks not in time with Barista's bounces will be worse. To assist with Barista's bounces there are visual and audio cues they are "1,2" "Hit 3" and "Combo"

Side: Glee Club, Holding the button causes up to 3 Chorus kids to appear in a line, letting go has them sing dealing damage.

Down: Tap Trial, The Barista recedes into the background and the Tap Trial Girl appears in the front, Tapping the B button gain once has the girl tap her left foot on the ground, dealing damage, Tapping it twice she taps her foot twice on the right side, Tapping the button 3 times has her tap her feet 3 times dealing damage on both sides, Holding the B-button has her charge up a jump and jumps in the air, dealing damage on liftoff and landing. Performing these attacks not in time with Barista's bounces will be worse. To assist with Barista's bounces there are visual and audio cues Their will be a monkey sound that is either "1" "2" "3" "Hold"

Up: Launch Party, The Barista hold onto a rocket from launch party, each rocket has timer and letting go at the right time will launch the rocket there are 4 rockets

-Red, counts down from 3 every beat

-Blue, Counts down from 5 very quickly

-Green, Counts down from 7 at a fast pace

-Grey, Counts down from 1 at a very slow pace but launches the farthest

Final Smash: Beat The Beat, The Barista drinks coffee and dashes forwards, it knocks them into a cutscene where the opponents are caught in a rainbow and pressing the B button in time with Barista's bounces will cause more and more rhythm heaven character from all across the series to appear dealing more and more damage. ending with a rainbow explosion.

--Grabs--

Basic grab: The guy from Packing Pests grabs the opponent

Pummel: Marshal jumps on the opponent's head

F-throw: The DJ Student from DJ school will Scratch the opponent forwards

B-throw: The Packing Pests guy transforms into Munchy Monk and the opponent is hit backwards

U-throw: A dough Dude launches the opponent upwards

D-throw: The fork from Fork lifter will stab the opponent into the ground

--Misc--

The Screen KO animation is the Barista's Stamp

The Barista turns into A seal from flipper flop for his roll

May I suggest that we add a Home Stage for Barista? if we aren't already that is.

Thanks for the moveset! It’s looking like Barista will be taking up a lot of our time and energy so I’m holding off on deciding on the home stage until we get this figured out.

Edit: @cashregister lol sorry for the ? Meant to put !

 

[Krookodilian]

Personally I'm on the side of making the rhythm Heaven characters 3D, albeit with a thick outline, since the WarioWare characters were made 3D and have the same art style as Rhythm Heaven. I also think it would slightly take away from Game & Watch's gimmick to have another character be 2D.

 

[CheeseAnton]

Yeah, being 2D is kinda a big deal. In fairness, the main reason I might want a 3D Barista is because 3D Good Boys are cuter than 2D Good boys. Barista has the rhythm mechanic, why should he also steal G&Ws? Unless being 2D is core to the character (like Paper Mario) I say we should make them 3D.

 

[Mamboo07]

I love how a dog with headphones got in this roster over 3 screaming guys who were so requested due to a leak back in Smash 4 and a flower pot kicking karate guy.

 

[ahemtoday]

Okay, so here's my idea regarding a rhythm mechanic. I'll do the rest of the moveset later this weekend, but I just want to bring this up for now.

Let's go over some issues I think this mechanic needs to dodge.

1. Alolan Whip has never made me feel like I was playing a rhythm game, so I'm uninterested in trying to convey it through moves like that. After all, this beat is non-stop; it isn't just contained to when you do things.
2. Now, Barista's moves can't go to the actual song, unfortunately. After all, there's a lot of those, and we would have to sync up each one. What happens when it plays Environmental Noises? How does this work in a tournament setting? What if players have the sound off? There's a lot of structural iffiness there.
3. The problem is, if you have any sense of rhythm, it'll feel wrong to go to a separate beat from that of the music. So we're in a bit of a pickle.

I think I have a solution, however.

What if we put the tempo in the players' hands?

Using a special move, players could press the B button twice. One for the first beat, and one for the second beat. That's all that's necessary to determine a tempo. The time between those two button presses will be the time between any two beats. From that point on, Barista will move to that beat, heralded by a ticking noise taken from Rhythm Heaven.

The faster the tempo, the less damage Barista's moves will do, but the quicker they'll be. The slower the tempo, the slower his moves, but they'll be more powerful.

Attacking on the beat will boost an attack's power. Attacking on an offbeat will boost the power a little less. Attacking completely out of time will make Barista's moves quite ineffective. And it'll play a silly "doink" noise. To humiliate you.

Also, if you set it way too low or way too high, it'll make use of the fact it's not really possible to distinguish between a BPM and half that BPM. If it's too slow, it'll multiply the BPM by 2 (or 4, or whatever power of 2 makes the BPM reasonable). If it's too fast, it'll divide the BPM by 2.

Oh, and if there's multiple Baristas, they share a BPM. It's a weird matchup quirk, but things get real screwy if there's two different BPMs going on.

Okay, but what's the benefit of this?

Well, it quite clearly fixes issue #1, so I don't think I need to elaborate on that.

But actually, I think this weaves its way between issues #2 and #3 perfectly. The tempo can't automatically match the current song, but a player can set it to match if they want to. It can even match music from outside the game this way.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Yeah, being 2D is kinda a big deal. In fairness, the main reason I might want a 3D Barista is because 3D Good Boys are cuter than 2D Good boys. Barista has the rhythm mechanic, why should he also steal G&Ws? Unless being 2D is core to the character (like Paper Mario) I say we should make them 3D.

I would be opposed to using a 3D model but, for the life of me, I can’t seem to find a 3D render anywhere for Barista.

 

[Krookodilian]

I'm not familiar with modeling, so I dont really know what this is but I found this.

Custom / Edited - Rhythm Heaven Customs - Barista - The Models Resource

Custom / Edited - Rhythm Heaven Customs - Barista - The #1 source for video game models on the internet!

www.models-resource.com

I don't feel that strongly that Barista should be 3D, but I think we should at least vote on it.

 

[cashregister9]

I went with 2d because if the character uses summons and transformations it makes more logistical sense and it matches the artstyle of rhythm heaven better. But I totally get the reasoning for 3D.

I think the decision should come down to whoever's moveset gets picked.

 

[airConditioner]

if it matters, maybe we could have barista using the non sentient items like built to scale and the fork?

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

if it matters, maybe we could have barista using the non sentient items like built to scale and the fork?
View attachment 305343View attachment 305345

That’s certainly a pathway someone could take for a moveset. Incorporating RH elements doesn’t immediately mean a summoning fighter. It could easily be a mix of the two.

EDIT: If they accept requests/commissions, perhaps we could scrounge up some money to pay TeamDestination to make a render...