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Q&A U WOT M8 - Shulk Q&A (READ THIS MESSAGE: PLEASE READ BEFORE MAKING A THREAD)

vegeta18

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How does monado arts and damage dealt change how safe your moves are? I was reading that in buster mode your moves are safer on shield because the increased damage output, but in speed or smash they are less safe.

Is it because of shield pressure?
 
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How does monado arts and damage dealt change how safe your moves are? I was reading that in buster mode your moves are safer on shield because the increased damage output, but in speed or smash they are less safe.

Is it because of shield pressure?
The more damaging your attacks are, the safer they are on shield. The shield stun or "shield pressure" is much greater when your attacks deal more damage (and lesser when they deal less damage)
 

Watchful_Eye

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I ocasionally face opponents which hide from me or spend more time on the ledge when I am in a certain art they don't like. The most obvious situation is when both are at high percents and I am just using the shield art. I am too slow following them, so it is quite easy to win quite a few seconds on bigger stages. Do you think that is a good idea against shulk and how do you react on it?
 
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MarioFireRed

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To be honest I'd go more aggressive against Shield Shulk because he isn't as mobile. Unless he deactivates or switches to Jump/Speed, I treat him as I would a Little Mac and go for grab punishes to get him off the edge. Because of his reduced overall speed it's rather difficult for Shield Shulk to recover, especially with a linear recovery and if the opponent happens to gimp you.

As for being the Shield Shulk there are two options available to you: Deactivate Shield and/or switch to another Monado Art to risk sealing the kill on your opponent or stay in Shield and try to slowly inch towards them while throwing Nairs/Fairs to beat out any projectiles they throw at you. If they get to the ledge wait for the invincibility frames to wear off and get them off with a Fair or, if you can time it, a downward tilted FSmash.
 

ampatron

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When should I pick Speed or Jump Monado? Recently I've been mostly using Speed but I'm aware that both modes are good for attacking, followups, spacing, and other neutral game shenanigans. I'm having a hard time knowing when to go for Jump in instances other than just edgeguarding or recovery.
 

InfinityZERO

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What percent are you asking for? I always go Speed since you just lose damage, whereas Jump decreases your defense.
 

Virum

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I'd say it's match-up dependent. Against the majority of characters I typically opt for Speed personally in neutral. Superior ground and air speed as well as the lowered jump height make your ground level approach more threatening as it expands your ground options and mix-ups. Short hop aerials are arguably better as you can land from them faster, and of course the various pivot options Shulk has become substantially better.

However, against projectile based characters, zoners or fast characters that fare better on the ground than in the air (most notably Mac and Sonic) I like to opt for Jump in neutral as it allows me to easily soar over a lot of their tools in neutral and them mix them up upon landing. I also prefer Jump on platform based stages such as Battlefield, Town and City and Duck Hunt as it allows me to manoeuvre around them with greater efficiency.
 

ArccJPO

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Hello there fellow Bronados, how are you guys doing in this fair day?

I'm having some problems with Shulk lately, as the game starts to age, and meta is getting more and more evident, I'm start to lose control over the Monado. No puns intended. I can't control the starting and ending lag in basically all his moves, be it attacks or specials. Everything is so easily "punishable" that every single time I try to hit someone, I end up getting hitted instead. I try to be as unpredictable as possible by mixing air (Fair and Nair), and ground (jabs and tilts), but a powershield, or a spot dodge just beats me, like, they are really feeling it? I know the future is ours to decide but... This doesn't look good.

Any tips on how to improve, I would be thankful.
 
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Hello there fellow Bronados, how are you guys doing in this fair day?

I'm having some problems with Shulk lately, as the game starts to age, and meta is getting more and more evident, I'm start to lose control over the Monado. No puns intended. I can't control the starting and ending lag in basically all his moves, be it attacks or specials. Everything is so easily "punishable" that every single time I try to hit someone, I end up getting hitted instead. I try to be as unpredictable as possible by mixing air (Fair and Nair), and ground (jabs and tilts), but a powershield, or a spot dodge just beats me, like, they are really feeling it? I know the future is ours to decide but... This doesn't look good.

Any tips on how to improve, I would be thankful.
Yooooo. Moved your thread. If you have any problems, just post it here

Also, is it okay if you can get more into the specifics with what the problem is? I can't really give a clear specific answer other than "Space more" or "Keep practicing" or "Hit the lab" dude.

The best answer I can give atm is, know the limitations of Shulk's attacks, and use them properly.
 
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ArccJPO

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It's ok to move, thanks for calling it out.

The problem is, with faster MU's like Marth, Sonic, or any other, it's seems I just get camped, I engage the enemy, but every time I hit them, I end up getting punished. Shulk's just too easy to punish due his lag. Is it a problem of mine? Should I just hit the lab?
 
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It's ok to move, thanks for calling it out.

The problem is, with faster MU's like Marth, Sonic, or any other, it's seems I just get camped, I engage the enemy, but every time I hit them, I end up getting punished. Shulk's just too easy to punish due his lag. Is it a problem of mine? Should I just hit the lab?
Well, this is a matter of spacing then. Make use of Shulk's range and avoid whiffing your attacks to make your attacks safe. Well, unless you're in buster then your attacks are mostly safe anyway. Avoid rushing down too much with Shulk because smart opponents will just shield grab them all. Take advantage of your range to maintain distance. Don't try going CQC against them. Focus on mid-range. Being between long range and close quarters is your main territory unless you go into speed art. Also, hitting the lab is always nice and it helps in developing your skill and strategies with Shulk (and with any character). For all you know, you might find something that's worth sharing in the meta game thread
 

ArccJPO

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Thanks, I think I'm being to "Ikeish" with Shulk. I'll try to work my spacing better, keeping in mind that the blade is more powerful then the beam. Once again, thanks.

About meta, I always try to help out, specially in the MU threads when I think I have a fair knowledge on the subject.
 

ampatron

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I'd say it's match-up dependent. Against the majority of characters I typically opt for Speed personally in neutral. Superior ground and air speed as well as the lowered jump height make your ground level approach more threatening as it expands your ground options and mix-ups. Short hop aerials are arguably better as you can land from them faster, and of course the various pivot options Shulk has become substantially better.

However, against projectile based characters, zoners or fast characters that fare better on the ground than in the air (most notably Mac and Sonic) I like to opt for Jump in neutral as it allows me to easily soar over a lot of their tools in neutral and them mix them up upon landing. I also prefer Jump on platform based stages such as Battlefield, Town and City and Duck Hunt as it allows me to manoeuvre around them with greater efficiency.
A solid response, thanks.
My only concern is that the lowered defences from Jump make me a bit nervous when fighting a heavy hitter like Little Mac. If my opponent is making me worry, should I still go for Jump?
 
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A solid response, thanks.
My only concern is that the lowered defences from Jump make me a bit nervous when fighting a heavy hitter like Little Mac. If my opponent is making me worry, should I still go for Jump?
If you feel that you're taking too much damage and pressure, just switch off the art.
 

ArccJPO

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Hello my Bronados, how are you guys feeling?

I must ask, how do you guys fair against Diddy and Rosalina? Yeah, I read the MU thread on Diddy (wow, spot dodge, you can't win by dodging you know?) I dropped Sm4sh competitve yesterday due this duo. Not matter what char I used, I always ended up beated. Shulk? Beated. Ganon? Beated. Ike? Beated. Link? Beated. Simple as that. Diddy just spam monkey flip for easy 15% damage every single time basically, it's even roll-proof. Higher %, just d-throw + Uair. Rosalina I think it's even worse, you can touch Diddy, but Rosalina is just bulls***. Luma just soaks all damage, you can't grab Rosalina, really really strong edge-guard with a pretty OP recovery (really, I meteor smashed her, and she still recovered, dou****e, Sakurai-sama?).

It's pretty sad to see that top 5 characters just rule in the current meta, without space for other fighters to make their way to the top. I'm a pretty solid guy when it comes to fighting games. I'm in the competitive scene of Street Fighter since SF4 came out
(7 years), I main Abel, which is a double sided coin, some call him OP, other says he is D-tier, No matter the MU, in SF4 you can always do the come back, every fighter is really well balanced, and everyone can fair pretty well against one another, thing that doesn't happen in Sm4sh due it's gimmicks, which, with all my heart and soul, it's just dumb to have fighters with meat shields and invicible-half-screen-grabs.

You guys can say I'm terrible in Sm4sh, or to git gud, but in the end, when you guys see that some fighters just don't work against another due balance issues, and no matter how hard you try, you just can't win, leading yourself to change your main just to beat a said fighter, even if you have to pick that one fighter you despise, you guys will see that Sm4sh will never be Melee.

I'm sorry if I'm posting this in the wrong section or thread, fell free to move it if needed.
 
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I must ask, how do you guys fair against Diddy and Rosalina? Yeah, I read the MU thread on Diddy (wow, spot dodge, you can't win by dodging you know?) I dropped Sm4sh competitve yesterday due this duo. Not matter what char I used, I always ended up beated. Shulk? Beated. Ganon? Beated. Ike? Beated. Link? Beated. Simple as that. Diddy just spam monkey flip for easy 15% damage every single time basically, it's even roll-proof. Higher %, just d-throw + Uair. Rosalina I think it's even worse, you can touch Diddy, but Rosalina is just bulls***. Luma just soaks all damage, you can't grab Rosalina, really really strong edge-guard with a pretty OP recovery (really, I meteor smashed her, and she still recovered, dou****e, Sakurai-sama?)
You're suppose to spot dodge Diddy's monkey flip (That's your best and also your only option). Spamming monkey flips? That's really easy to punish because it gets predictable. Also, you should be DI'ing d-throw -> u-air and that way, you shouldn't even be taking a u-air to the face off from d-throw at higher percentages.

As for Rosalina, you should really approach the match up differently. Take the luma out first and take care of Rosalina. Instead of whittling its HP down, you should just outspace the luma and knock it off stage then go attack. Rosalina loses 2 specials, and her zoning in general. Also, luma cannot attack when you perform a throw on Rosalina.

Whelp, you dropped Smash 4 competitively, I guess this might not matter. Good luck, I guess :S
 
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ArccJPO

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You're suppose to spot dodge Diddy's monkey flip (That's your best and also your only option). Spamming monkey flips? That's really easy to punish because it gets predictable. Also, you should be DI'ing d-throw -> u-air and that way, you shouldn't even be taking a u-air to the face off from d-throw at higher percentages.

As for Rosalina, you should really approach the match up differently. Take the luma out first and take care of Rosalina. Instead of whittling its HP down, you should just outspace the luma and knock it off stage then go attack. Rosalina loses 2 specials, and her zoning in general. Also, luma cannot attack when you perform a throw on Rosalina.
"Hm, let's put a half-screen grab where your only course of action is spot dodge it. Brilliant! BRILLIANT!" How's that a good design? You speak as it was completely normal to have such bad jokes. Or, "Let's put this meat shield in here, you need to deal with it first so you can get the actual player. Oh, let's add a 10 sec respawn for it." If Luma acted like Lala (died, won't come till Rosalina respawn), or acting like Shulk's MA (you could call Luma for a limited time), it would be far more interesting, once again, who was the genious that thought a constant 2x1 was a good idea?

Anyway, no matter how hard I try to describe how stupid a couple of things are in this game, you will just talk me off with it. In the end, Sm4sh is just a party game.
 
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Since you see this game as a party game, then alright

Like I said, good luck with whatever you plan on doing
 

spiderfreak1011

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"Hm, let's put a half-screen grab where your only course of action is spot dodge it. Brilliant! BRILLIANT!" How's that a good design? You speak as it was completely normal to have such bad jokes. Or, "Let's put this meat shield in here, you need to deal with it first so you can get the actual player. Oh, let's add a 10 sec respawn for it." If Luma acted like Lala (died, won't come till Rosalina respawn), or acting like Shulk's MA (you could call Luma for a limited time), it would be far more interesting, once again, who was the genious that thought a constant 2x1 was a good idea?

Anyway, no matter how hard I try to describe how stupid a couple of things are in this game, you will just talk me off with it. In the end, Sm4sh is just a party game.
Well, we acknowledge that Smash is a party game, it has its competitive aspects and is very technical for a "party game" when you strip away items and casual play. We also know that some things in this game are broken and flawed in design, but we just deal with them because if we're going to play the game competitively, that's the only thing to do. Whining about isn't going to help, we just try to work around/through it and help others do the same. :\
 

Locke 06

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So... Just finally started experimenting with Shulk and just wanted to confirm a few things about the Monado Arts.

1. Monado Arts switching cannot be buffered
2. Monado Arts switching cannot be used while locked into an animation
3. Monado Arts switching cannot be used to interrupt animations (most notably with dtilt's first actionable frame)
4. Monado Arts canceling CAN be buffered
5. You can switch Monado Arts at a rate of 1 switch per frame

I kind of tested these myself (with the exception of the 5th)... but just to make sure.
 
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Zatchiel

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Thanks for sharing.

4. Monado Arts canceling CAN be buffered
This is REALLY good out of Buster or Speed from my experience.

In Buster, once you feel like they're at kill percent you can knock/throw them away, buffer the art cancel, and:

- Kill them in vanilla (generally the most obvious one)
- Retreat (or advance if you're brazen enough) with a jump + a quick switch to Smash
- Same as above but instead of Smash switch to Shield (if you're at high percents and feel like an opponent in rage is a big enough threat)
- Switch to Speed or Jump and harass them

Besides that, when you're in Speed you can pivot grab -> b-throw them offstage and buffer your art cancel. You now have your unbridled kill power at your disposal and your opponent is offstage. A switch to Jump gives you even better potential, especially offstage, but you can do pretty much whatever you want from this position since control of the stage is (in most match-ups, presumably) now completely yours.

This post is probably better suited for the metagame thread though.
 
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Rawbinator

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Hey guys, first post.

I was watching Sodreks matches in the video thread and saw him do some jab cancel thing. ( Can't post links, look at his match vs Leffen at 2:04 )

How is this done? It's a lot faster then if I tap A twice and wait

Edit: found a video about this, you just crouch right after jab? At school so I can't test it out
 
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Masonomace

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Hey guys, first post.

I was watching Sodreks matches in the video thread and saw him do some jab cancel thing. ( Can't post links, look at his match vs Leffen at 2:04 )

How is this done? It's a lot faster then if I tap A twice and wait

Edit: found a video about this, you just crouch right after jab? At school so I can't test it out
The Jab clip at 2:04 - 2:06 wasn't jab canceling. What went on there was Sodrek held the A button to do Jab-1 while Diddy charged forward running into it, but because Diddy was hit from a far range, Jab-2 whiffs & Sodrek still holding down the A button reset the Jab combo to start back to Jab-1.
 
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erico9001

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So... Just finally started experimenting with Shulk and just wanted to confirm a few things about the Monado Arts.

1. Monado Arts switching cannot be buffered
2. Monado Arts switching cannot be used while not locked into an animation
3. Monado Arts switching cannot be used to interrupt animations (most notably with dtilt's first actionable frame)
4. Monado Arts canceling CAN be buffered
5. You can switch Monado Arts at a rate of 1 switch per frame

I kind of tested these myself (with the exception of the 5th)... but just to make sure.
1) yeah
2) "cannot be used while not locked into an animation"? Did you mean "cannot be used while locked into an animation"? That makes sense then.
3) yeah
4) yeah, and the buffering for cancelling is unique. What I found is there is a time after you buffer the Mart cancel where you can then also input a run, walk, or jump which is buffered and does not get rid of the Mart cancel's buffer. I find this most convenient to do buffering while in a shield, a dodge, or the animation that goes when you activate an art without moving (because that animation is not cancelled by Mart cancelling but is cancelled by everything else). What's so great about it is you can be walking at the speed of Monado speed's walk speed while Vanilla/Neutral Shulk, Jump with Monado Jump's height and air speed, and run initially at Monado Speed's run speed (but then it slows down). The Speed mode walking is the most useful. Umm I feel like I worded this all confusingly so I'm just going to post a video later demonstrating it.
5) So 60 times a second? Interesting, I wonder how this was tested.
 

Locke 06

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4) yeah, and the buffering for cancelling is unique. What I found is there is a time after you buffer the Mart cancel where you can then also input a run, walk, or jump which is buffered and does not get rid of the Mart cancel's buffer. I find this most convenient to do buffering while in a shield, a dodge, or the animation that goes when you activate an art without moving (because that animation is not cancelled by Mart cancelling but is cancelled by everything else). What's so great about it is you can be walking at the speed of Monado speed's walk speed while Vanilla/Neutral Shulk, Jump with Monado Jump's height and air speed, and run initially at Monado Speed's run speed (but then it slows down). The Speed mode walking is the most useful. Umm I feel like I worded this all confusingly so I'm just going to post a video later demonstrating it.
5) So 60 times a second? Interesting, I wonder how this was tested.
I'm a little confused about how the MA cancel buffering works. So, say you're in Jump. You ftilt, and then buffer the art cancel and then jump. Do you jump with Vanilla Shulk height, or Jump Shulk height? Also, does MA cancel buffering require a movement or can you buffer it with another attack?

A side question off of the buffering is how the MA cancel works. When you buffer it, does it only take 1 frame to deactivate? or does it take however long 3 switches take?

The 1 frame per switch is a hypothesis. I do not have the resources to test that. Really the only reason why I'm interested in that is the question above.

And thanks for #2. Edited. :)
 

erico9001

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I'm a little confused about how the MA cancel buffering works. So, say you're in Jump. You ftilt, and then buffer the art cancel and then jump. Do you jump with Vanilla Shulk height, or Jump Shulk height? Also, does MA cancel buffering require a movement or can you buffer it with another attack?

A side question off of the buffering is how the MA cancel works. When you buffer it, does it only take 1 frame to deactivate? or does it take however long 3 switches take?

The 1 frame per switch is a hypothesis. I do not have the resources to test that. Really the only reason why I'm interested in that is the question above.

And thanks for #2. Edited. :)
If you buffer the cancelling of the MA during the Ftilt (press B 3 times near the end of the animation) then jump right away when the Ftilt animation is over, then you your jump height will be Monado Jump's jump height. Instead of timing that jump, you can input the jump slightly before the animation is over (buffering it) and still get the effect. I think the technique works best when shielding though, as you can simply press 3 times then jump out of the shield while still getting the effect. I've actually just finished recording a video demonstrating this. I should have it uploaded a few hours from now.

If you do an attack like up smash or something then the MA wont cancel. I believe it takes 1 frame to cancel, or at least it does it very fast. It's not the amount of time between the 3 presses of B.

I can't answer whether it's 1 frame or not, but it's at least faster than the frequency at which humans are capable of pressing it at.
 
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Maple42

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Regarding the timing of the activation of the Monado Arts:
After the KO of my opponent's first stock, when is the optimal timing for activating a new one? Usually, I'm in either Jump or Smash, and I'd like to switch to Speed, for the longest time possible. I used to immediately cancel my current Art once I KO'd the opponent, and then go to the new Art once they respawned. However, this takes off three to five seconds of time I could have had in that Art.
Alternatively, we could switch once the opponent's out of respawn invincibility, but at that point, we're most likely fighting for position and it may not be possible to change. Is it worth the risk to have those four to five seconds, or is it better to take it safer and change while they're respawning to ensure my position and Art?
 

FOcast

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Regarding the timing of the activation of the Monado Arts:
After the KO of my opponent's first stock, when is the optimal timing for activating a new one? Usually, I'm in either Jump or Smash, and I'd like to switch to Speed, for the longest time possible. I used to immediately cancel my current Art once I KO'd the opponent, and then go to the new Art once they respawned. However, this takes off three to five seconds of time I could have had in that Art.
Alternatively, we could switch once the opponent's out of respawn invincibility, but at that point, we're most likely fighting for position and it may not be possible to change. Is it worth the risk to have those four to five seconds, or is it better to take it safer and change while they're respawning to ensure my position and Art?
I like switching immediately to speed or jump in order to avoid the opponent's invincibility frames. Changing arts while the opponent isn't present removes the risk of screwing up the switch under pressure, and losing a few seconds of possible speed time is worth less on the margin than the risk of taking 15-30% from a hit or combo due to bad positioning.

Another thing you can do is cycle through the stances slowly to delay the activation, and then select the proper art as soon as your opponent drops from the respawn platform. Ideally, this should give you the best of both worlds.
 

Masonomace

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Regarding the timing of the activation of the Monado Arts:
After the KO of my opponent's first stock, when is the optimal timing for activating a new one? Usually, I'm in either Jump or Smash, and I'd like to switch to Speed, for the longest time possible. I used to immediately cancel my current Art once I KO'd the opponent, and then go to the new Art once they respawned. However, this takes off three to five seconds of time I could have had in that Art.
Alternatively, we could switch once the opponent's out of respawn invincibility, but at that point, we're most likely fighting for position and it may not be possible to change. Is it worth the risk to have those four to five seconds, or is it better to take it safer and change while they're respawning to ensure my position and Art?
FOcast's reply is solid, & I'm just replying to give insight on the matter.

It takes 2 seconds for them to be KO'd & return descending on the revival platform, & when they drop from the platform instantly or wait on top of the platform, they get 2 seconds of invincibility. If they're aware of your next MArt you'll use, they could stall it out (take for example you being at very high % & you want to use Shield after KO'ing them) and make you waste good seconds of time in Jump Speed or Shield (these Arts are the common ones used). This doesn't normally occur if per-say you have the lead, however if you're currently losing the lead & they're KO'd, they may definitely wait it out & stall for sure so it's something to think about in case they do this. And if they're fully waiting after they've been KO'd, it's 8 seconds of waiting + invincibility, so it's not always best to instantly deactivate the Art & cycle to another asap.

To optimize your timing of activating a new Art from deactivating your former, take FOcast's advice of using a mobility Art such as Jump or Speed & be safe avoiding their 2 seconds of aggressive invincibility, and / or slow cycling to the Art you want to help time it successfully for avoiding them in case they drop from the revival platform. If they're stalling you out, don't let the Art you want activate itself, so use a movement option like walking, running, or jumping while maintaining the Art cycle to position yourself better before knowing for sure to activate it after they drop from it.
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EDIT:
If they immediately drop from the revival platform, I would think it's fine to keep the Art you had on before you KO'd them, but it's moment-dependent. However if they do stall waiting on the revival platform, it would be a greater decision to stay in the Art you were in & wait for them to drop from it.

For another insight, it takes roughly 0.75 seconds for a MArt to activate itself, meanwhile it can take 0.25 seconds to deactivate an Art if your mashing B 3 times very quickly. So you're not at a total disadvantage if you stay in the Art that's still active after KO'ing them.
 
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Zatchiel

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Regarding the timing of the activation of the Monado Arts:
After the KO of my opponent's first stock, when is the optimal timing for activating a new one? Usually, I'm in either Jump or Smash, and I'd like to switch to Speed, for the longest time possible. I used to immediately cancel my current Art once I KO'd the opponent, and then go to the new Art once they respawned. However, this takes off three to five seconds of time I could have had in that Art.
Alternatively, we could switch once the opponent's out of respawn invincibility, but at that point, we're most likely fighting for position and it may not be possible to change. Is it worth the risk to have those four to five seconds, or is it better to take it safer and change while they're respawning to ensure my position and Art?
If you're on Smash, switch it off immediately; in one-on-one it can usually only work against after you take a stock. Although it may help you get out of some mid percent combos thanks to the increase in knockback taken.

If you're on Jump, there's nothing wrong with keeping it on for evasive maneuvering or switching it off for something else depending on what you want/need for the situation. You can even still use Jump to your advantage regardless; just jump away from your opponent and switch the art off, and switch to another in mid-air (@ erico9001 erico9001 made a really good video demonstrating how to do this out of shield with a buffered deactivation). During the switch you can protect yourself with an aerial if they chase you.

Personally, I almost never wait anywhere near center stage for them to respawn. If I want to switch to a different art after killing them, I'll deactivate my current one and wait in vanilla until they pursue me to the ledge attempting to make the most of their invulnerability, then I just avoid them (making use of the ledge itself as an option is great in general; you're invincible while they were probably expecting you to stay onstage and roll/shield/jump). From there, I find or make an opening to switch to another art, which isn't wasteful at all in comparison to a preemptive switch.

Unless you're at a percent where Shield would be favorable, if you aren't in Jump or Speed already it's not a bad idea to bide your time with vanilla until their frames are exhausted. But if you don't mind shaving a few seconds off of your art's use for offensive purposes then there's no point in waiting.
 
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Chickenmcdonky

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 30, 2014
Messages
34
So I've been spending tons of time with Shulk since i got the game, but I find i'm really hitting a wall when it comes to punishing effectively. I focus on tilts, grabs, jabs, and sometimes my fair and bair for quick ones. Smashes and Vision for hard reads.

The problem is fast characters like ZSS, Diddy, Fox, and well played Links and Marths have powerful attacks that can strike near instantly with barely enough cooldown for a jab. If they're in tilt range they can escape that before I land the hit, and even in speed mode a running grab isn't always fast enough. I focus on hitting them from the air most of the time, but shields make that difficult even if it's my only real option.

To add to the frustration, characters like Link, Yoshi, and Mario can basically DSmash almost for free against me. When characters are rolling a lot I'm hesitant to use it because it's been baited out of me by good players pretending to be rolltards.

TLDR: Every move with Shulk feels like a commitment while faster characters can walk away from blatant whiffs unpunished against him. How do I cope with this? What are my best options against these characters? I know i have reach and arts and holy hell i'm trying please help me.
 
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