Q&A U WOT M8 - Shulk Q&A (READ THIS MESSAGE: PLEASE READ BEFORE MAKING A THREAD)

[Masonomace]

Like, just neutral Shulk. I've seen some players use him without anything until high damage, then just use smash; or shield for themselves if THEY'RE at high. I can understand some of the advantages, but honestly I kind of feel like if you're not in a MArt, you're wasting Shulk's potential, you know?

So am I misunderstanding him? That's entirely possible - I'm still fairly new to the character.

(So what was your thread's title question before it got moved here?)
I look at Shulk as a very, very versatile character. One MArt can adapt entirely to a situation that another would or wouldn't. Honestly there's so many ways to play Shulk that perhaps in hindsight not having a MArt active can look like a waste of potential, except all of the MArts have setbacks that could keep someone from absolutely using them until they're absolutely needed. I can sympathize with you about this, but I feel you could try the character out more & know if you're really feeling him or not.

I bet my entire post I just typed could be completely different if I knew what you're Thread Title said.

 

[aguyuno]

(So what was your thread's title question before it got moved here?)
I look at Shulk as a very, very versatile character. One MArt can adapt entirely to a situation that another would or wouldn't. Honestly there's so many ways to play Shulk that perhaps in hindsight not having a MArt active can look like a waste of potential, except all of the MArts have setbacks that could keep someone from absolutely using them until they're absolutely needed. I can sympathize with you about this, but I feel you could try the character out more & know if you're really feeling him or not.

I bet my entire post I just typed could be completely different if I knew what you're Thread Title said.

Yeah, sorry. I asked when a good time to NOT use an MArt is. Like, just go neutral, like I said.

 

[Zatchiel]

Like, just neutral Shulk. I've seen some players use him without anything until high damage, then just use smash; or shield for themselves if THEY'RE at high. I can understand some of the advantages, but honestly I kind of feel like if you're not in a MArt, you're wasting Shulk's potential, you know?

So am I misunderstanding him? That's entirely possible - I'm still fairly new to the character.

I do this to start the game sometimes, just to feel my opponent out and consider what art would be a good pick to use against them. Still, it's also to avoid the drawbacks of using monado arts. You take more damage in buster, you take more knockback in smash, you deal a bit less damage while in speed, etc.

I try to keep from relying on them if I don't feel like a need them or they would somehow promise less utility than harm in a given circumstance. Vanilla Shulk is awesome, and I think often underestimated. You don't always need an art equipped.

 

[Masonomace]

Yeah, sorry. I asked when a good time to NOT use an MArt is. Like, just go neutral, like I said.

Well then. MArts have setbacks, & those setbacks can make it obvious when not to use them. Vanilla Shulk can be competent enough on his own without augmenting yourself with MArts, & you don't necessarily need a MArt equipped at all times. However, the reason someone would cycle to a certain MArt instead of staying in Vanilla is to utilize the buffs / increased stats effectively so that the drawbacks / decreased stats aren't a problem, or the least the buffs could do is alleviate their problems. And some of the drawbacks to the MArts can become advantageous if we utilize them differently over being Vanilla. Take Smash for example:

Smash mode reduces your weight, which also reduces your knockback defense by a large margin as well. This means that this drawback can help Shulk deal with being combo'd from a throw > tilts, by escaping out much easier & quicker than Vanilla Shulk or any of the other MArts would.

But anyways, a good time to stick with Vanilla Shulk would be on-stage & playing out Neutral Game to feel the opponent out. There's actually decent times to stick with Vanilla over MArts, but I look at the MArts as a trade-off for the given situation.

It's kind of difficult for me to truly answer this, because there are stats that MArts increase by so much, that Vanilla gets diluted from them as you use them more. Sorry if none of this helped.

 

[Gidy]

Everytime I use backslash I keep finding myself getting punished.

What do you use it for?

 

[Berserker.]

Moved @ Gidy 's thread to the FAQ thread

 

[KuroganeHammer]

What do you use it for?

Nothing.

 

[Berserker.]

Everytime I use backslash I keep finding myself getting punished.

What do you use it for?

Punishment but you have better options so... you don't really get to use it that much

 

[MarioFireRed]

Everytime I use backslash I keep finding myself getting punished.

What do you use it for?

There's Back Throw > Back Slash if you read their tech/roll. That's just about the only semi-situational use I can ever find for the move. In fact I've gone through tens of matches literally forgetting I even have Back Slash.

A lot of other moves in Shulk's arsenal (namely Nair, Fair, grabs, and tilts) can punish much better and are overall better moves to use in those situations than Back Slash.

 

[Zatchiel]

In friendlies I like to use speed and land run through -> backslash sometimes on grounded opponents once I've made assessments of how they react to my dash-ins. It usually nets me a kill from center stage at the higher percents, or it just sends them offstage backwards, which can be a pretty ****ty situation for characters that can't turn around in the air somehow without being completely defenseless. From there I can just switch to jump and ledgeguard.

Aside from that the only other way I use it is what has been said above. Buster b-throw -> backslash can do remarkable damage and feels great to land.

Moreover, I have landed surprising backslash KOs near the ledge with smash equipped, hitting their front. Tends to happen if we just traded and I'm tumbling in the air while they are recovering from offstage. It's silly, but it happens; just thought I should mention that.

TL;DR: Backslash is mainly just for style points. There's always a better option, from my experience.

 

[Berserker.]

I think I've seen enough "How do you use back slash?" questions for it to be in the FAQ

So I think this will be added to the OP:

Q: When do you utilize back slash?
A: Possibly, you won't ever touch back slash. It's okay for punishing but you have better options

 

[Masonomace]

Everytime I use backslash I keep finding myself getting punished.

What do you use it for?

The usage department is low, but you want to use it for the back-hitting reward. This can be applied to moments such as characters who use B-air against you to zone / approach you from either doing a RAR or Perfect Pivoting to it. Another example is if you stand too close to the ledge while edge-guarding / zoning the ledge, the player will ledge-roll onto stage, so that you can net a Back Slash hit on their back nicely.

You may find using it for punishing as Berserk mentioned, & for following up from a B-throw as MarioFire & Zatch mentioned, or even not using it all like Aero mentioned. Personally, I feel Back Slash is best used with Speed or Buster. Speed's movement can place you in the right position to time your Back Slash in a similar explanation Zatch mentioned above, & Buster to go for a shield break attempt; hitting a bubble shield from behind with Buster augmenting your Back Slash does a lot of shield damage & can potentially break their shield if you've brought it down enough, but yeah.

 

[riskyjones]

Is It possible to chain shulk nair to make a sorta of how to explain "attacking dash" and example dash shffnair repeat

 

[Masonomace]

Is It possible to chain shulk nair to make a sorta of how to explain "attacking dash" and example dash shffnair repeat

To actually chain N-air > N-air together, I would say no, but maybe if you SH N-air FF, & then RAR or Perfect Pivot your second N-air so that the back-side of N-air hits, it might work since N-air's start-up & hit-box are behind Shulk.

I don't see this happening with Vanilla though. You'll probably need Jump or Speed's mobility to grant that chain & try it out.

 

[Berserker.]

Updated the OP. Changed some outdated answers and added more questions

 

[vegeta18]

Seems to happen to me quite often, people will do crazy dash attacks or whiff other laggy attacks, and i cant seem to get the right punish. My first instinct is usually shield grab, but im often out of range. What are some other good options? How well is air slash oos? can you use it in a similar way to marth`s ds oos?

Dtilt and jab are pretty much his quickest moves right? are those good options in a lot of cases then?

 

[Berserker.]

Moved @ vegeta18 's thread to the FAQ thread

 

[Farkle the Oddly Shaped]

Seems to happen to me quite often, people will do crazy dash attacks or whiff other laggy attacks, and i cant seem to get the right punish. My first instinct is usually shield grab, but im often out of range. What are some other good options? How well is air slash oos? can you use it in a similar way to marth`s ds oos?

Dtilt and jab are pretty much his quickest moves right? are those good options in a lot of cases then?

If they're close and just whiffed, drop shield and use f-tilt forward or backward (depending on if they're behind you or not). Shulk's grab is really bad for punishing unless they're right on top of you, and f-tilt will deliver a lot more damage anyway. I tend to shy away from OoS Air Slash because it isn't as quick as Marth's, and if you whiff you'll receive some heavy punishment as a result. Jab is a great move if you think (or know) they have an option that will come out very fast, because like Ike's jab, it comes out on a very early frame. From there, you can either do the second hit of the jab or trot forward to get the grab.

 

[BSP]

Do you guys think solo Shulk is tourney viable? If not, who are the MUs that require a secondary?

 

[Berserker.]

Do you guys think solo Shulk is tourney viable? If not, who are the MUs that require a secondary?

Yeah. He's tourney viable. You can still place well even without a secondary. It's obviously easier though if you have a secondary to cover up some of his negative match ups (which are mostly doable, but still uphill) ~ Sheik, Ness, and Diddy come into mind

 

[Freikugel]

What advantages does d-throw have over f-throw? Both combo into f-air, but d-throw deals less damage and more knockback (I think), making it harder to follow up. Only thing I can think of is it prepares you for off-stage kills slightly better and can kill on its own with Smash.

So anybody have any suggestions when to incorporate d-throw?

 

[InfinityZERO]

From watching Jerm/DistantKingdom play, Dthrow looks only viable as a kill. So mostly near a ledge with high percent or high percent with Smash MA on.

 

[Masonomace]

What advantages does d-throw have over f-throw? Both combo into f-air, but d-throw deals less damage and more knockback (I think), making it harder to follow up. Only thing I can think of is it prepares you for off-stage kills slightly better and can kill on its own with Smash.

So anybody have any suggestions when to incorporate d-throw?

F-throw is a reliable damage throw while D-throw is more-less your KO throw, which becomes more clear when augmenting your D-throw with Smash mode. We can say that both throws grant stage control, though D-throw is more stage controlling because it deals more knockback & the angle they're launched at, rather than F-throw having less knockback & a lower angle. The knockback increase & frame advantage from D-throw also makes it more easier to combo with more-so than F-throw as well. It varies with what MArt you have active too, but again results will vary.

TL;DR F-throw for damage, D-throw for combos & KO'ing

 

[Yellowpikmin476]

OBJECTION!

Back Slash is very useful for this:

Buster Art, Back Throw forces them to be in position so if you're fast enough you can back slash them, this does a LOT of damage.

 

[Nammy12]

OBJECTION!

Back Slash is very useful for this:

Buster Art, Back Throw forces them to be in position so if you're fast enough you can back slash them, this does a LOT of damage.

But even then, it's still a situational move sinice they can just tech the throw.

 

[Yellowpikmin476]

But even then, it's still a situational move sinice they can just tech the throw.

However situational =/= unreliable
Not everyone can tech easily, and even those who are good can't necessarily do it every time
Plus, you can't tech in midair! If you get them before they land it works if they don't air dodge

All I know is this trick works 75% of the time for me, online or CPU

 

[Berserker.]

Just don't use back slash that much unless you're up against, say projectile users. When they use projectiles and you're sure back slash will hit, go ahead and use it. Noticed this when I found myself using this against Link

 

[Attila the Hun]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufGJxy-CKns

Anyone understand how 9B switches to Buster to quick? Possibly custom controls, or?

Or am I just a really slow art switcher? xD

ALSO HOLY BALLS THAT LAST KILL

 

[Berserker.]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufGJxy-CKns

Anyone understand how 9B switches to Buster to quick? Possibly custom controls, or?

Or am I just a really slow art switcher? xD

ALSO HOLY BALLS THAT LAST KILL

I don't know. I guess he presses fast? I don't switch at that extreme speed because I might miss at the art I want to activate

And yeah, wow that fair->fair->air slash combo

 

[FlareHabanero]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufGJxy-CKns

Anyone understand how 9B switches to Buster to quick? Possibly custom controls, or?

Or am I just a really slow art switcher? xD

ALSO HOLY BALLS THAT LAST KILL

Switching is all based on the button press, so for example switching to Buster requires four presses. With muscle memory at tow you can press the exact amount to get the right art every time, hence why this player was able to do it so fluidly.

 

[Kaladin]

So, I intend to main Shulk and I'm actually getting pretty good with MArts/punishes/kills/winning, but I can't consistantly FF out of SH Nair for some reason. I'm using a gamepad with tap jump off. Any pointers on the timing?

 

[Funkermonster]

Bread and butter combos or followups worth learning? Trying to expand my damage racking options a bit. Also, how to switch to Jump when recovering if I already have an Art activated?

 

[Kaladin]

Bread and butter combos or followups worth learning? Trying to expand my damage racking options a bit. Also, how to switch to Jump when recovering if I already have an Art activated?

Mash B 4 times without any directional input.

 

[Masonomace]

So, I intend to main Shulk and I'm actually getting pretty good with MArts/punishes/kills/winning, but I can't consistantly FF out of SH Nair for some reason. I'm using a gamepad with tap jump off. Any pointers on the timing?

The timing of your SH N-air may have to do with how quick you're buffering the input, because buffering a SH N-air is literally a rising N-air, since a rising N-air takes longer to FF it rather than a SH & then N-air once you reach your SH's peak height or around its max height. This is mostly all about the SH & timing when you can FF, not so much the N-air, so once you have down the timing of FF'ing after the SH alone, you'll be good. Hope this helped.

Bread and butter combos or followups worth learning? Trying to expand my damage racking options a bit. Also, how to switch to Jump when recovering if I already have an Art activated?

BnB combos worth learning. . .hmm. . .I'd say that Vanilla Shulk has little combo game, & that his combo game increases once you put on Jump Speed or Buster on, but you may have to check the Metagame Thread, because I don't remember all the combos. As for the second question, *GenericHandle* gave the right answer, but it matters more that you de-activate the Art asap to switch to Jump mode during the hit-stun when you're being launched, because it actually can make a lot of difference the faster you're mashing B from that possible KO throw on your Shield mode. Hoped this helped.

 

[Kaladin]

This may depend on your controls because perhaps setting the R-stick as Attack may be the issue. (Unless you're not using the R-stick, my bad)

Other than that, the timing of your SH N-air may have to do with how quick you're buffering the input, because buffering a SH N-air is literally a rising N-air, since a rising N-air takes longer to FF it rather than a SH & then N-air once you reach your SH's peak height or around its max height. This is mostly all about the SH & timing when you can FF, not so much the N-air, so once you have down the timing of FF'ing after the SH alone, you'll be good. Hope this helped.

BnB combos worth learning. . .hmm. . .I'd say that Vanilla Shulk has little combo game, & that his combo game increases once you put on Jump Speed or Buster on, but you may have to check the Metagame Thread, because I don't remember all the combos. As for the second question, *GenericHandle* gave the right answer, but it matters more that you de-activate the Art asap to switch to Jump mode during the hit-stun when you're being launched, because it actually can make a lot of difference the faster you're mashing B from that possible KO throw on your Shield mode. Hoped this helped.

Perhaps I'm a total noob, but what does the right stick have to do with it? At any rate, it's set to smash. I'll definitely work on the timing once I get home. Thanks!

 

[Masonomace]

Perhaps I'm a total noob, but what does the right stick have to do with it? At any rate, it's set to smash. I'll definitely work on the timing once I get home. Thanks!

Actually idk why I posted about that, there's nothing wrong with having your R-stick set to Attack. Carry on~

 

[AnotherDerp]

I'm not too sure if I'm the first one to find this, but I thought I'd just show this to some people if they haven't. Is there any sort of practical way to use this in a match?.

 

[Zatchiel]

Combat walking. Pretty sure you can jump out of Shulk's before he resets back to jab 1, or at least interrupt with a speedy aerial. Because of that I don't see the use. You can just read their reactions out of jab 1 and potentially deal more damage than you would with a combat walk from center stage.

 

[NQuad1Zero]

Ohhh Ike's Brawl Combat Walk Exists in Smash 4?! Im gonna look into this
But this in itself is super situational because Im pretty sure you can't deliberately set this up anymore (Jab1 cancel into Jab 1 Jab 2 cancel into hold A etc)

 

[Berserker.]

Moved @ A AnotherDerp 's thread to the FAQ thread. Also, welcome to Smashboards