Q&A U WOT M8 - Shulk Q&A (READ THIS MESSAGE: PLEASE READ BEFORE MAKING A THREAD)

[Masonomace]

Guys, when would fair be a much better choice than nair?

F-air at this point is better than N-air. The reduced landing lag & it's combo potential frankly made its usage skyrocket but even now both aerials are good. F-air starts high & ends low, so F-air is ofc the better choice for aerial approaches or stuffing their options airborne, while N-air starts from behind Shulk & goes around the world ending behind him again, so it's more grounded & used to keep your landing relatively safe. Although N-air used airborne can be a nice pseudo-frame-trap, it's better off that N-air is used for grounded moments, & F-air for aerial moments.

What's shulk optimal oos options?

Not all of the bulletins I list below are optimal, because the end-lag on attack moves hitting your shield do vary, & not to mention that OoS options become more optimal if you Perfect-Shield then input a move after. So:

• Jump Canceled Air Slash OR Shield Dropped Air Slash (whichever's more comfortable with you plus timing)
• Forward tilt
  
• any Uncharged smash attack
• Dash Attack
• Grab
• Rapid Jab-1

I'd answer your question about advice for the Mega Man MU, but I'm fairly exhausted to type that, & Berserk has you covered.

Just wondering, but how do you guys approach sudden deaths? Of the few times I've gone into SD on For Glory I've lost most of them.

How to not approach Sudden Death mode:
Don't activate Shield Buster or Smash, they're all useless especially Smash & Buster. Shield doesn't help at all but SOMETIMES moves that can barely KO don't KO you with Shield on. 98% of the time Shield won't save you, but maybe HShield can. . .

How to approach Sudden Death mode:
Activate Jump or Speed, you NEED a mobility-increasing MArt to sneak in some quick hits or make your opponent chew their nails in suspense of what you're doing.

 

[Berserker.]

F-air at this point is better than N-air. The reduced landing lag & it's combo potential frankly made its usage skyrocket but even now both aerials are good. F-air starts high & ends low, so F-air is ofc the better choice for aerial approaches or stuffing their options airborne, while N-air starts from behind Shulk & goes around the world ending behind him again, so it's more grounded & used to keep your landing relatively safe. Although N-air used airborne can be a nice pseudo-frame-trap, it's better off that N-air is used for grounded moments, & F-air for aerial moments.

Everything else, I agree with.

Bolded part. Not exactly. N-air is still better just for that certain aspect solely because the landing lag is obviously less than f-air's. F-air is more of a poking tool. A really good poking tool. Honestly, you don't have to rely on n-air for a defensive aerial when f-air can do a better job acting as a wall

 

[Masonomace]

I feel dumb forgetting about testing this with Shulk from last night playing with friends, but some questions:

• Which MArt / DMArt / HMArt is the fastest swimmer? Maybe it's Speed??
  
• Which MArt / DMArt / HMArt is the slowest swimmer? Maybe it's Shield??
  
  BONUS QUESTIONS:
• Which MArt / DMArt / HMArt sinks the fastest? Maybe it's Jump??

• Which MArt / DMArt / HMArt sinks the slowest? Maybe it's Speed or Shield??

Everything else, I agree with.

Bolded part. Not exactly. N-air is still better just for that certain aspect solely because the landing lag is obviously less than f-air's. F-air is more of a poking tool. A really good poking tool. Honestly, you don't have to rely on n-air for a defensive aerial when f-air can do a better job acting as a wall

I meant to refer aerial approaches as Full Hopped ones, because FH > F-air is dope for that low hit majorly making contact on most of the cast while they put up their bubble shield, whereas a FH > N-air is very bad because its cooldown airborne is the worst & leaves you wiiiiiiiide open.

For SH aerial approaches, it's space-dependent, but ofc spacing N-air is win-win while spacing F-air is okay-win because reasons, but I too agree that N-air is better suited due to its lower lag upon landing, & it's coverage is godlike in all honesty. Though again, backward DI'd F-air is pretty good for walling & F-air pokes nicely for being a F-air. N-air has that air speed flow when you DI your SH forward or backward if that makes sense, yet I much prefer backward DI'd N-air for that good feeling.

 

[Farkle the Oddly Shaped]

Another question:

• Does the MArt B-Reverse's distance change when switching to or from a mobility-altering MArt like Jump Speed or Shield? (If Buster & Smash differ too then damn)

I've been playing with them in training mode and it doesn't look like the max B-reverse distance is any different between the arts, but it does seem like you have to time the reverse differently for each one

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

What are shulk's best neutral and cp stages and what stages should be banned as shulj?

 

[Masonomace]

What are shulk's best neutral and cp stages and what stages should be banned as shulj?

This will vary between the 3DS & WiiU sorta not really but anyways. Shulk generally does well on any stage with platforms since his U-tilt & his N-air covers a lot of area through the platforms, including F-air as well. U-air & U-smash do well for the same cause too. I'm not exactly aware of the Neutrals CPs & Banned stages list officially, but here's some good WiiU stages Shulk can play on:

Battlefield
Town and City
Kongo Jungle 64
Final Destination
Smashville
Delfino
Wuhu Island

Idk what stages I would ban or CP because my lack of awareness of an official stage list that's been adopted by the tournament scene entirely, but yeah hope that helped.

 

[Berserker.]

Not sure if Shulk likes FD/Omega stages. He doesn't get a lot of mileage out of them. Shulk's best neutrals and cp's are basically anything with platforms. Like Yoshi's Island (3DS) or Town and City

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

This will vary between the 3DS & WiiU sorta not really but anyways. Shulk generally does well on any stage with platforms since his U-tilt & his N-air covers a lot of area through the platforms, including F-air as well. U-air & U-smash do well for the same cause too. I'm not exactly aware of the Neutrals CPs & Banned stages list officially, but here's some good WiiU stages Shulk can play on:

Battlefield
Town and City
Kongo Jungle 64
Final Destination
Smashville
Delfino
Wuhu Island

Idk what stages I would ban or CP because my lack of awareness of an official stage list that's been adopted by the tournament scene entirely, but yeah hope that helped.

Yeah I was at a tourney yesterday and wasn't really sure what to cp with or what I should ban. But I guess that stuff will come up later?

 

[Masonomace]

For sure, Shulk doesn't get much mileage out of flat stages, more-so for platform-friendly stages than FD / Omegas, but I included it because flat is decent, & it's not like Chaingrabs are in Smash 4 so flat stages are more appealing again.

Yeah I was at a tourney yesterday and wasn't really sure what to cp with or what I should ban. But I guess that stuff will come up later?

I'd CP any stage you're comfortable with for now. There's a good amount of potential legal stages in Smash 4 & regardless Shulk does well with platforms, but yeah until APEX rolls around this is still in the air for now.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

For sure, Shulk doesn't get much mileage out of flat stages, more-so for platform-friendly stages than FD / Omegas, but I included it because flat is decent, & it's not like Chaingrabs are in Smash 4 so flat stages are more appealing again.

I'd CP any stage you're comfortable with for now. There's a good amount of potential legal stages in Smash 4 & regardless Shulk does well with platforms, but yeah until APEX rolls around this is still in the air for now.

Well i just figured I'd ask my opponent already had his bans ready when I played him and get more to thinking. I understand different tournaments will have different stages and rules. I'm trying to figure out what to avoid and where to take my opponents character.

 

[Masonomace]

Well i just figured I'd ask my opponent already had his bans ready when I played him and get more to thinking. I understand different tournaments will have different stages and rules. I'm trying to figure out what to avoid and where to take my opponents character.

Do you recall what the tournament's stage list consisted of? I'm hoping I can give more answers if I get this answer

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Do you recall what the tournament's stage list consisted of? I'm hoping I can give more answers if I get this answer

Unfortunately I don't remember they just read the stage list to us.

 

[Masonomace]

Unfortunately I don't remember they just read the stage list to us.

Bummer. . .well without knowing the stage list, I'll list off some not-so-impressive stages for Shulk based on a lack-of stage discussion about Shulk:

Bad stages:

• Boxing Ring
• Gaur Plain
• Wily Castle
• Flat Zone X
• Gamer
• Garden of Hope
• Kalos Pokemon League
• Mario Galaxy
• Mushroom Kingdom U
• Orbital Gate Assault
• Pac-Land
• Palutena's Temple
• Pyrosphere
• Wii Fit Studio
• Wrecking Crew
• Hyrule's Temple
• Yoshi's Island (Melee)
• 75 m
• Bridge of Eldin
• Pokemon Stadium 2
• Skyworld

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Bummer. . .well without knowing the stage list, I'll list off some not-so-impressive stages for Shulk based on a lack-of stage discussion about Shulk:

Bad stages:

• Boxing Ring
• Gaur Plain
• Wily Castle
• Flat Zone X
• Gamer
• Garden of Hope
• Kalos Pokemon League
• Mario Galaxy
• Mushroom Kingdom U
• Orbital Gate Assault
• Pac-Land
• Palutena's Temple
• Pyrosphere
• Wii Fit Studio
• Wrecking Crew
• Hyrule's Temple
• Yoshi's Island (Melee)
• 75 m
• Bridge of Eldin
• Pokemon Stadium 2
• Skyworld

Pretty sure all those stages were banned. Starters were obviously fd sv bf lc and omega stages.

 

[Masonomace]

Pretty sure all those stages were banned. Starters were obviously fd sv bf lc and omega stages.

LC BF & SV are for sure the starters you want.

I'm humoring all these stages being CPs for now: Town & City, Big Battlefield, Jungle Hijinx, Duck Hunt, & Kong Jungle 64

These stages are more stages to look forward to if you want more stage variety to choose from. I still don't know about Bans.

 

[Berserker.]

Yeah... Shulk isn't BAD on omega stages. That's something I want to clarify. He's still decent

And most of those stages are banned btw

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I'm thinking castle seige and halberd maybe good cps for shulk.

 

[Funkermonster]

Best situations to use Back Slash? Haven't really found too many uses for this move other than mixing things up and surprise attacks (and neither have many other Shulk players I've faced), but it seems like people in the custom moves thread are saying that the custom substitues aren't much better. I know its a situational move, but still.

 

[Berserker.]

Best situations to use Back Slash? Haven't really found too many uses for this move other than mixing things up and surprise attacks (and neither have many other Shulk players I've faced), but it seems like people in the custom moves thread are saying that the custom substitues aren't much better. I know its a situational move, but still.

Not much. Just punishment really. Back slash is pretty much forgettable atm

 

[Masonomace]

Yeah... Shulk isn't BAD on omega stages. That's something I want to clarify. He's still decent

And most of those stages are banned btw

For sure. Omegas are decent, but if we really want to get specific with Omegas, we'd want to ban the ones with walls on the sides, to prevent other characters utilizing them for the wall-jump to net better success in case we're edge-guarding. My bad on the stages in bulletins, I thought Wii Fit Studio was okay, just that walk-offs are frowned upon but that may change.

I'm thinking castle seige and halberd maybe good cps for shulk.

For sure, the stage hazards from Halberd are easy & telegraphed & besides that Marts can favor us completely for that transition. Castle Siege would be my 2nd CP choice if it was between Halberd & CS.

Best situations to use Back Slash? Haven't really found too many uses for this move other than mixing things up and surprise attacks (and neither have many other Shulk players I've faced), but it seems like people in the custom moves thread are saying that the custom substitues aren't much better. I know its a situational move, but still.

From my experiences, as the same as Berserker said, the best situation is for Punishing.

There's a bit more options you can do with Back Slash, but mainly you try Back Slash for punishing bad landings, zoning the ledge, going aggro towards RAR B-air walls or just B-air'ing in general since they turn their back on us for free.

The Customs Back Slash Charge aka BSC & Back Slash Leap aka BSL are, well not much more favoring but there are advantages BSC or BSL have. Mainly BSC is a reliable horizontal recovery option when facing aggressive edge-guarding off-stage because your Super Armor you have for the majority of your attack plows through, edge-guard breaking your opponent while trading damage inthe process. BSC also bypasses through zoning projectiles but the damage & knockback are piss-poor & you have to rely on getting the Back-side damage to make it as viable as the regular Back Slash.

I have less to say about Back Slash Leap because I did not invest much time into it but that's going to change. For now I'll say that BSL is good for edge-guarding with if you read their ledge-jump option, ledge-climb, ledge-attack, or ledge-roll if you turn your BSL backward for the free back-damage =D.

Hope this helped

 

[DiverseStyle]

I haven't really noticed anything like this, at least on here, yet, but recently I've been having massive trouble with characters that are crazy with throws like or who use their d-throws to start crazy combos and rack up huge damage. Attempting to spot-dodging the grabs didn't always work and I had been told spacing is the best way to deal with it. First I tried spacing with F-air but they always dash grabbed through it anyway.

Then the only other spacing tool I remember Shulk having was d-tilt. So I tried swatting at their feet a few games and I was shocked how effective it was! It was so amazing keeping those dash grabbers off me.

I don't know if I'm actually improving in my strategies or if those were just lucky matches, but still I thought I'd ask other ways to effectively space as Shulk against throwy/slick characters. I know spacing is something you have to learn as you go, but couldn't hurt.

 

[Berserker.]

I haven't really noticed anything like this, at least on here, yet, but recently I've been having massive trouble with characters that are crazy with throws like or who use their d-throws to start crazy combos and rack up huge damage. Attempting to spot-dodging the grabs didn't always work and I had been told spacing is the best way to deal with it. First I tried spacing with F-air but they always dash grabbed through it anyway.

Then the only other spacing tool I remember Shulk having was d-tilt. So I tried swatting at their feet a few games and I was shocked how effective it was! It was so amazing keeping those dash grabbers off me.

I don't know if I'm actually improving in my strategies or if those were just lucky matches, but still I thought I'd ask other ways to effectively space as Shulk against throwy/slick characters. I know spacing is something you have to learn as you go, but couldn't hurt.

Captain Falcon? Just zone him out and space. No really. That's the best strategy against him. Not a hard match up at all imo as long as you abuse your range. If he gets into your zone, you're gonna have to jab, counter or Air slash OoS or U-smash OoS

Diddy. The answer is don't get grabbed. Diddy will be a hard match up you might as well have to deal with learning how to not get grabbed. Easier said than done but that's the strategy for ALL characters against Diddy atm


Just practice spacing you attacks in general. Especially f-tilt, n-air, b-air and f-air. Those are really important for Shulk's spacing. D-tilt is amazing for spacing so you got that right

 

[Masonomace]

I haven't really noticed anything like this, at least on here, yet, but recently I've been having massive trouble with characters that are crazy with throws like or who use their d-throws to start crazy combos and rack up huge damage. Attempting to spot-dodging the grabs didn't always work and I had been told spacing is the best way to deal with it. First I tried spacing with F-air but they always dash grabbed through it anyway.

Then the only other spacing tool I remember Shulk having was d-tilt. So I tried swatting at their feet a few games and I was shocked how effective it was! It was so amazing keeping those dash grabbers off me.

I don't know if I'm actually improving in my strategies or if those were just lucky matches, but still I thought I'd ask other ways to effectively space as Shulk against throwy/slick characters. I know spacing is something you have to learn as you go, but couldn't hurt.

Spoiler: Off-topic but effective for their throws

This is off the topic of spacing, but MArts can help you combat these grabs by altering their knockback thanks to the weight / knockback defense of Shield & Smash mode. You usually DI toward Diddy if he D-throws you, & for Falcon's D-throw you want to DI depending how fast he throws you; if he grabs & instantly D-throws, you DI toward him, & if he grabs & D-throws gradually slow after he pummels, DI away. Shield can ruin Falcon's D-throw > U-air setup while Smash can too, however it's much more unsafe to have Smash on against Falcon than Diddy since U-air > Knee is a thing & you'll most likely die to Knee. I haven't played against Diddy so I can't give advice on the throw scenario.

Anyway, I retreat B-air for spacing while poking them at the same time. Another thing I do is holding A to do a rapid Jab-1 flurry to keep them out if they dash+gab me because of grab armor being removed from Smash 4. Other than that I got nothing.

EDIT: Berserk 'd me. I dig it

 

[DiverseStyle]

Captain Falcon? Just zone him out and space. No really. That's the best strategy against him. Not a hard match up at all imo as long as you abuse your range. If he gets into your zone, you're gonna have to jab, counter or Air slash OoS or U-smash OoS

Diddy. The answer is don't get grabbed. Diddy will be a hard match up you might as well have to deal with learning how to not get grabbed. Easier said than done but that's the strategy for ALL characters against Diddy atm


Just practice spacing you attacks in general. Especially f-tilt, n-air, b-air and f-air. Those are really important for Shulk's spacing. D-tilt is amazing for spacing so you got that right

You're right, I dont remember the matchup being that hard before, it's just the recent run-in with that fast dash grabs and my inexperience spacing. And Diddy's not a problem at all without his throws so I'll follow you on that one.

Spoiler: Off-topic but effective for their throws

This is off the topic of spacing, but MArts can help you combat these grabs by altering their knockback thanks to the weight / knockback defense of Shield & Smash mode. You usually DI toward Diddy if he D-throws you, & for Falcon's D-throw you want to DI depending how fast he throws you; if he grabs & instantly D-throws, you DI toward him, & if he grabs & D-throws gradually slow after he pummels, DI away. Shield can ruin Falcon's D-throw > U-air setup while Smash can too, however it's much more unsafe to have Smash on against Falcon than Diddy since U-air > Knee is a thing & you'll most likely die to Knee. I haven't played against Diddy so I can't give advice on the throw scenario.

Anyway, I retreat B-air for spacing while poking them at the same time. Another thing I do is holding A to do a rapid Jab-1 flurry to keep them out if they dash+gab me because of grab armor being removed from Smash 4. Other than that I got nothing.

EDIT: Berserk 'd me. I dig it

DI-ing after the throw was actually the first place I went to, but since there are true combos, I thought spacing would be better. Still, I wondered if a particular Art would help that, even though I couldn't switch into it while grabbed.

I didn't know jabbing can be effective either, I'll start rapidly punching the air more.

Also, is a retreating f-air/n-air generally the best way to spac those moves?

 

[Masonomace]

DI-ing after the throw was actually the first place I went to, but since there are true combos, I thought spacing would be better. Still, I wondered if a particular Art would help that, even though I couldn't switch into it while grabbed.

I didn't know jabbing can be effective either, I'll start rapidly punching the air more.

Also, is a retreating f-air/n-air generally the best way to spac those moves?

It would be cool if we could activate MArts while being grabbed, but the solution to that is already having Shield or Smash on before the grabs happen. Because of Shield making you slow all-around anyhow people go for grabs against Shulk a lot, or in Diddy's case he wouldn't have to approach & throw a Banana + shoot Peanuts. Smash used early in the match can disrupt throw setups allowing you to escape them easier, maybe it can disrupt Diddy's D-throw albeit I haven't tried it out so I can only hope it does.

And yeah retreating your F-air & N-air favor you greatly, especially a frontward-facing N-air while drifting backwards airborne.

 

[Zatchiel]

When it comes to neutral sometimes I feel the urge to just go rampant with n-air and f-air (not necessarily approaching with them, but I'm sure you guys know what I mean). For obvious reasons I'm wondering what I should be doing/how I should be reacting in general from neutral. I can deal with/approach against projectiles to where they aren't a considerable issue.

 

[Masonomace]

When it comes to neutral sometimes I feel the urge to just go rampant with n-air and f-air (not necessarily approaching with them, but I'm sure you guys know what I mean). For obvious reasons I'm wondering what I should be doing/how I should be reacting in general from neutral. I can deal with/approach against projectiles to where they aren't a considerable issue.

(Hi Zatch<3)
As Vanilla Shulk, N-air & F-air have reasonably low landing lag, but the issue with his move-set is it all has an amount of slow start-up. Regardless, one thing you want to react to is when a player suddenly rushes in to shield-grab or another OoS punish for your attack as you're landing. MArts involved will alter & affect Neutral game, but overall it's the same with either more patience into the mix, or more aggression.

Buster augmenting your N-air & F-air make your hits on block safer because of the additional shield damage it deals, but like I mentioned earlier above, the player will try rushing in either to spot-dodge the attack & avoid the shield-stun from Buster, or dash-shield-cancel in hopes to powershield your attack. If you're hitting someone's powershield with Buster, it becomes very unsafe & chances are you''ll be punished. Baiting their spot-dodging or attempts of powershield-grabbing your Buster hits is what you may want to react to, & luckily Buster Shulk's grab-game is a menace. Another decent tactic to add onto this is retreating B-air.

Hope that helped.

 

[Farkle the Oddly Shaped]

@ Masonomace it did help, but how do you stay safe/win the neutral when almost all of Shulk's options can be punished by a shield-grab? I find myself getting shut down repeatedly (at least online, which doesn't really count because lag) by campers with fast, repeated projectiles and people who like to shield. Shulk's grab range is so minuscule so the only way out is Speed (for grabs) or Buster (for shield pressure) but I can't commit to both and as a result, I get read. They can also shut down landing behind with a fair with an OoS pivot f-tilt. Besides including more empty jumps, how should I deal with these people?

 

[Masonomace]

@ Masonomace it did help, but how do you stay safe/win the neutral when almost all of Shulk's options can be punished by a shield-grab? I find myself getting shut down repeatedly (at least online, which doesn't really count because lag) by campers with fast, repeated projectiles and people who like to shield. Shulk's grab range is so minuscule so the only way out is Speed (for grabs) or Buster (for shield pressure) but I can't commit to both and as a result, I get read. They can also shut down landing behind with a fair with an OoS pivot f-tilt. Besides including more empty jumps, how should I deal with these people?

Staying safe in Neutral can involve some backward drifting to your airborne aerials while you're landing so that you're not getting punished too hard by any shield-grab. Again Buster helps you stay safe against the shield-grab option because of the shield-stun & pressure it inflicts upon bubble shields, but always keep a wary strategy of handling powershield OoS options against your Buster.

Some ways to handle players who like shielding:

• Patience by standing still not doing anything when you're relatively nearby. Speed on the ground is home-field-advantage & you can be anywhere you want to be, including just running past them & analyze how they're reacting to it. Mixing up your movement & placement to your Speed game can also put more pressure on their shields such as:

1. Running > Pivoted F-tilt on shield (hitting their shield from behind while sliding past them)
2. Foxtrotting > dashing-shield cancel
3. Perfect Pivoting (Harder technique, but is worthy with Speed on if you're really close by)

• With Buster you do setups like Full Hop & drift towards them to F-air their shield as you're rising in your Full Hop, & then cross them up from behind by still drifting towards them to the point you're above airborne & input B-air with some FastFalling for the timing to hit their bubble shield to deal a good chunk of shield damage & stun. It may condition them to not rely on using their shield as much. That or D-smash by connecting all of the 3 frontal attacks to potentially break their shield.

Some ways to handle projectile camping (It varies whether that character has an item Shulk can pick up to use against them):

• Speed walking approach & shielding projectiles on-the-go, & jump over / spot-dodge other projectiles you can't catch & throw
• N-air or F-air to deal with projectiles while you Full Hop or Short Hop
• Buster rapid Jab-1 punches destroy petty uncharged projectiles if they doesn't explode on hit, which for exploding items roll out of the way or do the next bulletin ▼
• Vision countering projectiles / traps with Buster on when the opponent is close by in reach of Vision to deal tons of damage
• Shield foxtrotting or dash-shield-canceling constantly to handle the projectiles on-shield since your bubble shield is stronger

Hoped any of this helped.

 

[Sandwiches]

And why? Are there any you just feel aren't worth it?

Personally I rarely use shield, I just can't stand slow characters. So much so that I have no real opinion on whether it's good or not, I just avoid it.

 

[Masonomace]

And why? Are there any you just feel aren't worth it?

Personally I rarely use shield, I just can't stand slow characters. So much so that I have no real opinion on whether it's good or not, I just avoid it.

I oddly don't use Speed that much. I use it from time to time, & with the recent v1.0.4 patch, Speed's damage was buffed directly (Damage multiplier was 0.72x, now it's 0.80x) & indirectly (most of Shulk's attacks increased by +1 damage, some by +2 or +3).

There's some setbacks the MArts put on Shulk that make me use them less, such as Smash's weak damage on bubble shields thus dealing weak shield-stun which can leave you open to punishment. I'm a little surprised that Shield isn't used that much. Shield imo is too much of a help for me, especially with what you can do with Shield to survive & the attacks you can block with your stronger bubble shield, it's a great asset to have living to the 200+% if you're performing exceptionally well.

EDIT: but for the 2nd question, I think all 5 MArts are worth it.

 

[Berserker.]

@ S Sandwiches ' thread moved to the FAQ thread

 

[Farkle the Oddly Shaped]

I'm a little surprised that Shield isn't used that much. Shield imo is too much of a help for me, especially with what you can do with Shield to survive & the attacks you can block with your stronger bubble shield, it's a great asset to have living to the 200+% if you're performing exceptionally well.

I think that most people don't use it because it makes you into combo fodder at any percent below about <80%. From watching videos of the majority of Shulk players, they often get killed before Shield becomes a good choice. I definitely agree with you that it's a good Art, especially for dealing with shield pressure and building rage for a good Vision Counter, but enough Shulk players (including myself) don't live long enough to make proper use of it

 

[Masonomace]

I think that most people don't use it because it makes you into combo fodder at any percent below about <80%. From watching videos of the majority of Shulk players, they often get killed before Shield becomes a good choice. I definitely agree with you that it's a good Art, especially for dealing with shield pressure and building rage for a good Vision Counter, but enough Shulk players (including myself) don't live long enough to make proper use of it

This is true. Shield does lead to yourself getting caught in a grab or being combo'd by aerials, but there are ways of avoiding this other than spacing yourself & "Don't get hit". We can avoid this by deactivating Shield asap during the throw & have it canceled before they connect a hit on us, or it can be canceled during the combo even while Shulk's flinching from the repeated tilts, or aerial combos, & jump out or try Vision / Air Slash & go from there. Of course you just deactivated your Art that helps you survive, but I'm sure we can live for 10 more seconds until Shield comes off from cooldown.

 

[Farkle the Oddly Shaped]

That's interesting...can you cancel an Art while being held in a grab/pummeled? I know you can cancel during hitstun but I haven't tried during an actual grab

I'll have to go try it.

 

[Masonomace]

That's interesting...can you cancel an Art while being held in a grab/pummeled? I know you can cancel during hitstun but I haven't tried during an actual grab

I'll have to go try it.

You cannot deactivate a MArt during their pummeling or grab. Only when you're thrown is when you can start mashing B to deactivate the Art. Although Idk if Shulk can deactivate a grab during a grab release, but probably not. I could be wrong about the grab release though.

 

[BlueSuperSonic1]

What situations should I be using Jump in? It's probably my least used Monado Art, and I feel I should try to incorporate it more into my game. I know it's good for recovering and edgeguarding, but are there any other situations where Jump is a good option?

 

[Masonomace]

What situations should I be using Jump in? It's probably my least used Monado Art, and I feel I should try to incorporate it more into my game. I know it's good for recovering and edgeguarding, but are there any other situations where Jump is a good option?

• Aerial combos / setups on or off-stage (Example: connect a F-air, you'll likely be able to follow-up with another F-air)
  
• You can use Jump to get some breathing air from a pressuring situation & choose to deactivate it for another Art you need
  
  
• Approaching with Jump on, you can Full Hop F-air & drift forward to cross-up from behind with B-air + a smidgen of FF landing
  
  
• On-stage, you can space your aerials very well with Jump on, because you can approach airborne with SH N-air, or you can just do stationary SH > N-air & drift it backwards to be super-safe. If you're drifting all the way with the aerial, you'll slide a portion of distance across the floor which makes it even harder to punish
  
  
• You can use Jump to FF much quicker to the ground so that you don't stay airborne for too long. This can be applied in feint jumps when you Full Hop & FF to the ground & dash grab them while they shield

Other than those situations, recovering & edge-guarding are the two biggest factors that Jump excel at. You're already aware of them, but the extreme situations that you put Jump Shulk under recovering & edge-guarding can be eye-opening. You could literally start recovering when at the bottom corner of the blast area & drift + DoubleJump + Air Slash & still recover back, which is amazing. Edge-guarding-wise, you could be zoning someone off-screen so hard & bait an edge-guard-break move like a counter or an aerial, & just drift towards them to F-air or have your RAR + B-air ready to punish to seal that stock.

 

[aguyuno]

Like, just neutral Shulk. I've seen some players use him without anything until high damage, then just use smash; or shield for themselves if THEY'RE at high. I can understand some of the advantages, but honestly I kind of feel like if you're not in a MArt, you're wasting Shulk's potential, you know?

So am I misunderstanding him? That's entirely possible - I'm still fairly new to the character.

 

[Berserker.]

Moved @ aguyuno 's thread to Q&A thread