Q&A U WOT M8 - Shulk Q&A (READ THIS MESSAGE: PLEASE READ BEFORE MAKING A THREAD)

[erico9001]

Sometimes when I air slash, I seem to snap the ledge. But when I try to recreate it in training it seems to happen so random to me, more often than not I just fly past the ledge and open myself up for punishes. Got any tips?

http://smashboards.com/threads/snapping-to-the-ledge-with-air-slash.381385/
Bam!

Along these lines, I'd like to discuss approach options; I feel that for Shulk, it's necessary to make your opponent question themselves when you hop towards them, due to the limited abilities of the character to do different things. As DiverseStyle mentioned, empty hop grabbing is great way to do that. By mixing the SH FF NAir and empty hob grabbing, your opponent essentially has to guess whether to shield or to attempt to hit you.
Are there other ways to approach ~? If there are more, it makes the mentioned technique even more coin-flip like, which is always a plus.

Approaching... hmm... Speed mode has decent approaches. Fake them out by throwing your shield up from your run to almost instantaneously stop your momentum. Or you could roll back and go in like that. Doing these sorts of things can cause the opponent to do something that is punishable. Also, Speed Shulk's got a terrific pivot grab.

Although, you mean more neutral Shulk, right? You can approach with a shield out of your dash if you expect them to try to receive your appraoch with an attack. If they do attack then you can punish with like an out of shield air slash.

Sometimes a dash attack can take people by surprise. Esp. if approaching in Monado Shield (approaching in Monado Shield is not usually recommended though). Be sure to space it though.

There's probably more to be said here, though.

 

[Masonomace]

Sometimes when I air slash, I seem to snap the ledge. But when I try to recreate it in training it seems to happen so random to me, more often than not I just fly past the ledge and open myself up for punishes. Got any tips?

I just practiced in Training Mode on Final Destination & on 1/2 speed, I & noticed something that may really help, but remember that some stages have slightly different ledges to sweetspot on.

So basically you first want to know Shulk's default range of grabbing the ledge, & by doing that I was grabbing the ledge & dropping away from it, followed by doublejumping slightly away from the ledge to figure out where shulk can be in mid-air grabbing the ledge. After that you go from there. Once you get an idea of where you can be in range for the regular ledge-grab, practice using Air Slash within that range. To get a visual idea of the Air Slash's startup animation timing, imagine only seeing the three-pronged wind effect, along with your head never being above the ledge's height.

 

[Poppy100]

I decided to pick up Shulk again recently, (My mistake is right there...maybe) how do you punish people who are rolling too much away from him? Seriously, against most people, either I kill them really fast, or they roll so much, the match takes another 2 and a half minutes, (this is EXACTLY why I typically use projectile characters).

I'm losing about 1 out of 12 or so matches with Shulk, whereas with Mega man and Duck Hunt, its more like 1 out of 90, I'm BLATANTLY doing something wrong! (Lets not get weird like in my other topic alright?)

I sometimes use aerials while moving away, but most people won't approach me when I'm doing this.

I usually use buster and try neutral or back air to hit grounded opponents, if you land in front of them when they shielded it, your almost definitely getting grabbed, landing behind them when attacking is usually fine even if they shield, but you typically still won't hurt them doing this. (By which, I mean they'll keep successfully blocking it)

Speed sometimes allows me to safely grab, but I find the damage is...kinda meh...so what the heck do I do? Do I use it anyway? I hate losing to people that are in my "nobody" category, but I recently went against a guy who was using Link and Toon Link, that I SWEAR TO GOD, knew my movements before I made them, (I didn't use Shulk against HIM obviously) which makes me KINDA think winning reliably using anyone might be possible.

 

[Maple42]

Like you mentioned, Speed will help greatly getting in against zoning characters. While the damage is decidedly "meh," patience is key; you can't go in if it's unsafe (i.e. Shielding).
Your approaches must be mixed up; make your opponent predict you, and subsequently make them be a yomi level under or too high. This involves using options like Short hopped NAir and FAir, grabs and pivot grabs, empty hopping, and sometimes, even simply running past them. You can't be predictable; THAT is when it's unsafe.

Regarding the last paragraph, it may be that you're being too predictable. When you're in a match, think.... "Why does he know what I'm doing next? Do I have an autopilot?" Then, you can act upon your opponent's realization and strike back. o w o

 

[DrShankums]

Well the thread title and post are a little confusing. To answer your question about people rolling away, I nair onto them. Speed and jump might be useful for you to chase them down. Once you land a nair you have a few different options to followup. I'd go with a grab if the % permits, it's all very situational. You can all so run past them and throw out out a dsmash. Approaching with shulk is pretty difficult sometimes against good opponents, once the opponent catches on to you approaching with nair it's time to mix it up. Retreating fair is usually safe, as well as retreating bair. Empty hops into grabs, or spacing with ftilt/dtilt are good options. Learn the timing of the monado arts activation and approach with a MAC aerial, it usually throws opponents off when you hit there shield and smash mash their face in with a tilt/smash/grab when they go for a shield grab.

 

[Poppy100]

Well...regarding my last paragraph, that was NOT a normal player...definitely not...

But yeah, hopping and not attacking might work after they think I'm gonna do it, anything about counter attacking though? Probably should've mentioned this before, I can go for 2 and a half minutes through a fight, and then FINALLY use counter, and the players will either not attack at all, or their attack will miss altogether. -_-;

Whats a MAC aerial? I'm not familiar with all this terminology.

 

[DrShankums]

Monado arts canceled aerial. Check out the combo thread, there's a video that goes into pretty good detail about the timing.

 

[1FC0]

Which move is better, Dtilt or Ftilt? They seem like they have the same purposes and I use Dtilt as poke move out of habit with R.O.B. but I wonder is Ftilt good for anything too?

 

[Masonomace]

Which move is better, Dtilt or Ftilt? They seem like they have the same purposes and I use Dtilt as poke move out of habit with R.O.B. but I wonder is Ftilt good for anything too?

F-tilt is usually used for pivoting, following up after landing with a N-air connecting (N-air > F-tilt [turned around is optional]), & your best tilt for wearing down shields. Mainly though it's pivoting F-tilt since it's a movement option.

F-tilt
Speed: Pivoted F-tilt becomes amazing
Shield: Ground speed reduction makes F-tilt more precise, but overall worse
Buster: Deals much more shield damage on block, pushing them farther away as well (aka you become safer)
Smash: Knockback to F-tilt increases, allowing your F-tilt to KO at a lower percent

D-tilt's range goes farther than F-tilt naturally, but characters having different hurt-boxes affect the result (big nose is better for F-tilt for example). D-tilt is also considered a better move to use for the smaller characters that are able to crouch F-tilt or crouch low enough to avoid being hit. Because D-tilt has low cooldown it's used more for zoning someone with ground approaches & is nice for landing N-air > D-tilt to keep them out.

D-tilt
Buster: Combo-heavy tilt out of D-throw

That's all I got.

 

[DrShankums]

It's done.

I'm surprised at how long video editing takes. I have a new found respect for people who do a lot of this. Although, I'm sure most people aren't using freeware (virtualdub/windows movie maker).


@ Masonomace can you stick this in the op?

I'm dumb, it was in the meta game thread

 

[Zatchiel]

Which move is better, Dtilt or Ftilt? They seem like they have the same purposes and I use Dtilt as poke move out of habit with R.O.B. but I wonder is Ftilt good for anything too?

I like down tilt better since it keeps them near me for easier following up. F-tilt is better for dealing damage, killing, or edgeguarding/setting up an edgeguard. D-tilt is better in the three most commonly used art stances (I think it's fair to say that Jump, Speed, and Buster are those three), and it's safer on shield than f-tilt. It works pretty fabulously combined with n-air.

 

[Berserker.]

Moved @ P Poppy100 's thread to the FAQ

 

[NoMarthLeftBehind]

Welp, the new update destroyed all my replays.

Gonna have to get new ones.

 

[Masonomace]

A question for the sake of being a question for this thread: the OP.

Should the FAQs be more fleshed out? Like per-say these:

Q: How many B presses does it take to deactivate arts?
A: 3 button presses

Shouldn't this go more in-depth about how to de-activate the Monado Arts? For an example:
Q: How do you de-activate Arts?
A: Press B rapidly three times, or hold the B button for 1 full second

 

[Zatchiel]

A question for the sake of being a question for this thread: the OP.

Should the FAQs be more fleshed out? Like per-say these:

Shouldn't this go more in-depth about how to de-activate the Monado Arts? For an example:
Q: How do you de-activate Arts?
A: Press B rapidly three times, or hold the B button for 1 full second

The FAQ should concisely answer frequently asked questions, which it already does perfectly. The "extended" answer to the question you gave is just saying there's another way to deactivate arts, but that should be there anyway since those are the only two ways to deactivate them manually. It'd be adding missing information rather than adding depth.

 

[JuanM]

I've been playing in For Glory and I've noticed that I keep losing to heavier, slower characters. How do I beat Dedede,DK, and Ganon? Should I just spam Vision? Haha

 

[Maple42]

The Monado Sword affords you huge range; you can mid zone quite easily, due to their lack of projectiles (well, Bowser kiiinda has a projectile, but meh).
Furthermore, the mobility arts, Speed and Jump, allow you to play rushdown-esque; not to say that you should be going in a lot, as Shulk is a defensive character, but generally heavies have a hard time dealing with getting juggled.
Be patient; heavies rely on you to make a mistake to get in, and the counter to that is simply being more patient. You have the tools to constantly put pressure on them; don't be reckless.

 

[JuanM]

Thank you,and I've realised that I do try to challenge their smash attacks with a b-air, but I end up losing a stock because of that

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Have you guys tried Jab1 or Jab 1+2 followups into Air Slash? I'm wondering if that's a worthy mixup or even kill option when Smash arts is equipped. Since air slash is a special, you don't have to wait for any precise frame to input the move after the jab, pressing upB while the jab animations play with buffer air slash to perform as soon as possible.

 

[Zatchiel]

Thank you,and I've realised that I do try to challenge their smash attacks with a b-air, but I end up losing a stock because of that

You can use Vision counter against smash attacks and aerials that you see incoming, and that can kill them so very early. Just don't spam it. That's the worst thing you can do since the counter window deteriorates vastly if you use the move repeatedly, whether the counter gets activated or not. If they are throwing out smash attacks willy nilly then throw on Smash and make them regret it with Vision.

Have you guys tried Jab1 or Jab 1+2 followups into Air Slash? I'm wondering if that's a worthy mixup or even kill option when Smash arts is equipped. Since air slash is a special, you don't have to wait for any precise frame to input the move after the jab, pressing upB while the jab animations play with buffer air slash to perform as soon as possible.

I remember discussing this earlier in the thread. At best this is an okay mixup, but it's not a true combo and is very easy to escape. If that happens you're either getting punished hard or dying. So it can work, but I wouldn't call it a reliable kill option. Air Slash out of shield is much more reliable, and the difference between that by itself and the aforementioned jab mixup is 2-4% (even less in Smash art).

 

[ICXCM]

..moved to amiibo thread

 

[KittyKyat]

I have been playing a hell lot of Shulk since I bought the game, love playing him, practicing in training and the like, but I feel like I'm stuck in a rut. I feel like my nairs and fairs are way too easy to punish after I fast fall against fast characters or characters with good aerial games if my aerials are blocked. Is it due to incorrect spacing or am I just bad or something? I've been told his Nair and Fair is good, but I dunno. Any ideas?

 

[Maple42]

Spacing is a big part of that; if you're getting shield grabbed, then you're too close. You want to hit with the very tip of the Monado, so when you retreat in the air, they won't be able to reach you with a punish.

 

[Masonomace]

I have been playing a hell lot of Shulk since I bought the game, love playing him, practicing in training and the like, but I feel like I'm stuck in a rut. I feel like my nairs and fairs are way too easy to punish after I fast fall against fast characters or characters with good aerial games if my aerials are blocked. Is it due to incorrect spacing or am I just bad or something? I've been told his Nair and Fair is good, but I dunno. Any ideas?

I've ran into the same rut & got out of that path by mixing up how I use N-air & F-air. As a reminder, N-air starts hitting from behind while F-air starts hitting from above.

Reversing your direction to face away from your opponent in Neutral while using SH > N-air FF is effective for me because you're only using what's really necessary about N-air as a hit to connect or stop them from approaching you with dash-shield-canceling for normally punishing your landing with grab. Spacing this kind of N-air not only deals the 8% you want, but also drifting away with this N-air from them grants even more spacing (thank you @ Maple42 ). Spacing heavily affects F-air, as the range in front of you reaches farther than N-air does in front of you anyhow, so that's always good to know. SH > F-air FF while drifting backwards becomes very safe & walls out an opponent greatly.

Remember that Monado Arts only make these tactics better (with the exception of Smash):
Jump = your air speed combined with faster falling speed & spaced aerials while drifting away will slide a good distance across the ground

Speed = your air speed on top of reduced jump height makes FF'ing less necessary, but still effective if you add in FF'ing

Shield = reduced jump height with the reversed N-air or front-facing F-air makes your walling nice

Buster = your additional shield-damage on bubble shields makes your hits safer as they also take additional shield-stun

Smash = Avoid this as your damage on bubble shields is decreased, along with dealing less shield-stun

 

[KittyKyat]

I've ran into the same rut & got out of that path by mixing up how I use N-air & F-air. As a reminder, N-air starts hitting from behind while F-air starts hitting from above.

Reversing your direction to face away from your opponent in Neutral while using SH > N-air FF is effective for me because you're only using what's really necessary about N-air as a hit to connect or stop them from approaching you with dash-shield-canceling for normally punishing your landing with grab. Spacing this kind of N-air not only deals the 8% you want, but also drifting away with this N-air from them grants even more spacing (thank you @ Maple42 ). Spacing heavily affects F-air, as the range in front of you reaches farther than N-air does in front of you anyhow, so that's always good to know. SH > F-air FF while drifting backwards becomes very safe & walls out an opponent greatly.

Remember that Monado Arts only make these tactics better (with the exception of Smash):
Jump = your air speed combined with faster falling speed & spaced aerials while drifting away will slide a good distance across the ground

Speed = your air speed on top of reduced jump height makes FF'ing less necessary, but still effective if you add in FF'ing

Shield = reduced jump height with the reversed N-air or front-facing F-air makes your walling nice

Buster = your additional shield-damage on bubble shields makes your hits safer as they also take additional shield-stun

Smash = Avoid this as your damage on bubble shields is decreased, along with dealing less shield-stun

So, just keep this in mind as I play and practice? It probably takes a while, as the fast pace of the game makes spacing kinda hard to get used to, but I can try to practice and do better. Thank you.

I feel as though despite the amount of time I've put into the smash bros games (although I literally haven't played another Smash game for about 2 years and came back because 4 came out) I'm still quite a noob, so I think I've got a long way to go.

 

[Masonomace]

So, just keep this in mind as I play and practice? It probably takes a while, as the fast pace of the game makes spacing kinda hard to get used to, but I can try to practice and do better. Thank you.

I feel as though despite the amount of time I've put into the smash bros games (although I literally haven't played another Smash game for about 2 years and came back because 4 came out) I'm still quite a noob, so I think I've got a long way to go.

No worries, progression comes in due time . The main two ingredients to safe aerials are mainly spacing & Fast Falling. How high you jump matters, but the more spacing & amount of Fast falling you put into your aerials, the safer they become.

 

[Linkmario00]

Can Shulk B reversal monado arts?

 

[Berserker.]

Can Shulk B reversal monado arts?

Yes, he can. You just need to wait for the activation to happen while moving the control stick backwards

 

[NoMarthLeftBehind]

Considering that alot of people here come looking for things more precision oriented, why not share around a few friend codes so that the Shulk-sperts can train the aspiring mains?

A question from me: Does air-slash have a sweetspot, and if it does, where is it located?

 

[Masonomace]

A question from me: Does air-slash have a sweetspot, and if it does, where is it located?

Technically yes, Air Slash does have a sweet & sourspot but only in the 1st hit of Air Slash. The 2nd hit will always deal 5.5% regardless. As for the 1st hit's sweet & sour, I typed up about it in the Metagame Thread. Here's the quote:

About Air Slash's 1st hit
The sweet & sourspot within the 1st hit of Air Slash is mostly determined by the height your attack connects, not the B & B rule. The sweetspot deals 6% when the opponent is close to Shulk or is within the same height as Shulk, while the sourspot deals 5% If Shulk hits anyone higher than his standing height on the floor. More is to be discovered about this move.

 

[Zatchiel]

Can you cycle through/deactivate arts while you're being footstooled?

 

[Pikalink]

Can you cycle through/deactivate arts while you're being footstooled?

My hypothesis was that you can still change the Monado arts while being footstooled.
First, I tested it with my self on the ground. The result of the most"accurate" times was you can't change MA while being footstooled on the ground. I'm not sure if it is totally accurate but I got more "evidence". So for test two I got my friend to help me test. To see if you can change MA in mid air. I did it multiple times to make sure. I also checked deactivating MA. After the many footstools I came to this conclusion.
You can not change or deactivate Monado arts while being footstooled.(Mid-air and on the ground)

Keep in mind I'm not the most accurate resource. I'm pretty sure somebody will get more accurate results. But you got my curiosity so I tested myself. I'm highly sure that you can't.

Also please note I was testing the action of being footstool(The time when the little yellow lines appear by the character's head that's doing the footstooling on the other characters head), while also pressing the B button. I wasn't testing the time afterwards(the time that the character tumbles down).
Edit:I might try this with monado Kirby sometime but I think the result will be the same.

 

[Masonomace]

Can you cycle through/deactivate arts while you're being footstooled?

@ Pikalink 's post above me is well-done, & I'm only posting to clarify a few things about this question.

If a character is within range to footstool Shulk & both Shulk & the other character press their respective inputs at the exact same time, both inputs will go through. Visually, the Art Shulk cycled to (let's say it was Jump) & the footstool's yellow V with the two stars appear at the same time. Oh yeah, & Shulk cannot deactivate an Art at the same time he's footstooled despite the grayed-out kanji Art being displayed, which is the evidence of the attempt of it (Unless you mash B at super sonic speed or something).

Edit: I forgot to mention that Shulk can be grounded or airborne while being foostooled & can still cycle to an Art, but only if you cycle to that Art exactly at the same time you're foostooled.

Note: Shulk's Monado Art activation moment does not help him cancel the forced footstool animation.

I wasn't testing the time afterwards(the time that the character tumbles down).

I came to the conclusion that when Shulk tumbles to the floor, he cannot cycle or deactivate his current Art at that moment. However, when Shulk chooses his floor option whether it be a floor attack, floor roll, or a floor get-up, Shulk can buffer deactivating the Art.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I've got some mechanical questions about Shulk's vision. When you hold forward on a counterattack, what exactly changes about it?

Also, the frame data for his vision claims that the move is unblockable (goes through shields) can anybody confirm that from experience?

 

[Berserker.]

I've got some mechanical questions about Shulk's vision. When you hold forward on a counterattack, what exactly changes about it?

Also, the frame data for his vision claims that the move is unblockable (goes through shields) can anybody confirm that from experience?

The animation, damage and knockback. Forward vision deals 13% damage, and the animation boosts Shulk through the opponent instantly. The range of forward vision is behind Shulk though, but it still covers a huge amount of area behind him

Also, yes. Vision is unblockable

 

[Zatchiel]

@ erico9001 (or anyone else of course, I just wanted his attention)

Since you can buffer art deactivation out of shield, is it possible to buffer art deactivation just before getting grabbed, so that the moment your opponent grabs you out of your shield the art deactivates? If that's possible it'd really help with reducing damage taken from being in certain arts, or potentially dying from a grab with Smash on.

 

[Masonomace]

@ erico9001 (or anyone else of course, I just wanted his attention)

Since you can buffer art deactivation out of shield, is it possible to buffer art deactivation just before getting grabbed, so that the moment your opponent grabs you out of your shield the art deactivates? If that's possible it'd really help with reducing damage taken from being in certain arts, or potentially dying from a grab with Smash on.

Sadly you cannot buffer an Art deactivation out of shield while being grabbed. That would of been cool & vital

Edit: @ Zatchiel However, if you're fast enough, you could buffer the Art deactivation oos faster if you jump during that moment just before getting grabbed.

Explanation: You guys know how you can change your direction during the startup of Back Slash & Back Slash Charge right?

Question: So, can Back Slash Leap change direction during the rising animation? I'm not near my WiiU atm so I can't test it myself

Edit: Answer: Yes it can. Nice.

 

[Berserker.]

@ Masonomace

Merged

 

[kj22]

Is anybody familiar with the sweet spot on shulks sword? I'm guessing it provides extra safety on shield since more damage and knock back, but IoI find it difficult to tell when I've hit with it/to space.
Does anybody have the sweet spot spacing down pretty well, similar to how Marth's know their tipper range?

 

[MarioFireRed]

Is anybody familiar with the sweet spot on shulks sword? I'm guessing it provides extra safety on shield since more damage and knock back, but IoI find it difficult to tell when I've hit with it/to space.
Does anybody have the sweet spot spacing down pretty well, similar to how Marth's know their tipper range?

I heard the sweetspot is on the base of the Monado where the art symbol would appear. Most of Shulk's attacks are either sweeping one-hits or two-hit attacks where the first hit always leads into the second, the latter category (including FSmash, USmash, and Dair) is where the sweetspot would be the most noticeable.

Although there are some rare cases where the tip of the Monado is actually the sweet spot (Nair).