Social Two Sides of the Same Aegis: The Pyra & Mythra Social thread

[Arthur97]

You...don't want them to be good? I want Pyra to be better, but I'm biased. Fearing potential nerfs is a thing, but I don't think they're nerf worthy.

Also, the helpless thing might not be a glitch. I think Kirby can also be pushed off into a helpless state.

On a less serious note, how about their taunts? Yeah, Mythra has the meme line, but overall I probably prefer Pyra's. Shocking, isn't it? Though Mythra's are still alright.

 

[Teeb147]

You...don't want them to be good? I want Pyra to be better, but I'm biased. Fearing potential nerfs is a thing, but I don't think they're nerf worthy.

Also, the helpless thing might not be a glitch. I think Kirby can also be pushed off into a helpless state.

On a less serious note, how about their taunts? Yeah, Mythra has the meme line, but overall I probably prefer Pyra's. Shocking, isn't it? Though Mythra's are still alright.

Well that's exactly it, they're not nerf worthy so I don't want people to think they're overpowered.
(I do think the up-b and foresight are a bit beyond normal good tho ;p)

It's definitely a bug, it makes no sense that she's on the ground and then she gets pushed off and is in freefall.

 

[Arthur97]

I don't know, the Kirby thing can be delayed I think. Might just be easier to push her.

Hmm, I don't think they're overpowered, but that doesn't mean they can't be good (even if it's disproportionately in Mythra's favor). If they do touch them, I hope it's more to rebalance them to each other (or just buff Pyra). Though, at least it seems that Pyra's role is already shifting somewhat. Give it time. Will likely be several months before a new balance patch so the hype can die down. That said, Mythra being insanely fast is already a massive boon for them. They are probably good. Maybe even really good.

 

[Teeb147]

I don't know, the Kirby thing can be delayed I think. Might just be easier to push her.

Hmm, I don't think they're overpowered, but that doesn't mean they can't be good (even if it's disproportionately in Mythra's favor). If they do touch them, I hope it's more to rebalance them to each other. Though, at least it seems that Pyra's role is already shifting somewhat. Give it time. Will likely be several months before a new balance patch so the hype can die down. That said, Mythra being insanely fast is already a massive boon for them. They are probably good. Maybe even really good.

Oh I think Mythra alone puts them close to top tier. I just don't like seeing the headline of multiple pro player videos saying they're The the best character in the game or op.

 

[Arthur97]

Well, best is actually hard to pin down in Ultimate. Tiers in general tend to be more vague it seems. A testament to this game's balance. I'm not really sure you can actually legitimately pick a best.

 

[Teeb147]

Well, best is actually hard to pin down in Ultimate. Tiers in general tend to be more vague it seems. A testament to this game's balance. I'm not really sure you can actually legitimately pick a best.

Well it's complicated, but Joker was considered the best character by many many pro players. And Pikachu is considered a contender due to having no bad matchups and being top tier.

 

[Arthur97]

I think Pikachu is a weird case as people say that Pikachu is really good...but kind of lacks evidence to back it up. Even if Joker is really good, I'm not sure if he can definitively be called the best. It's not like Brawl and Smash 4 where you have a fighter that clearly outclasses the others. In addition to this, best is not as great a title as it may have been in the past. If Joker is the best, he's far from unbeatable. Perhaps past games have given a somewhat more prestigious reputation to title of best than is warranted here. Even if the girls are the best, then that doesn't mean they are necessarily over powered.

 

[Teeb147]

Well, it's just the pro assessment. Personally, I don't find pikachu 'that' great, but I can see why in theory it is, because of great frame data, combos, and more.
Joker.. it could be skewed by mkleo having played him and being the best player in the world, but it's definitely a great character.

I think the thing is if a character has bad match ups or not. And both joker and pikachu do well against most characters, so that's a pretty big thing.

 

[Arthur97]

The main thing holding Pikachu back I think is the lack of results. Joker has a better case for the title, but, again, is being best really that good in Ultimate?

 

[meleebrawler]

Well it's complicated, but Joker was considered the best character by many many pro players. And Pikachu is considered a contender due to having no bad matchups and being top tier.

Remember that time before Pichu got nerfed and stole all of Pikachu's attention? Even when he had stuff like the forward tilt of doom, some top level players just couldn't stomach how fragile he was and eventually moved somewhere else, despite all the amazing stuff he could do better than Pikachu, and still can to some extent today. We'll see how committed these players are once the Aegis girl's lackluster recoveries cost them a few games.

I think Pikachu is a weird case as people say that Pikachu is really good...but kind of lacks evidence to back it up. Even if Joker is really good, I'm not sure if he can definitively be called the best. It's not like Brawl and Smash 4 where you have a fighter that clearly outclasses the others. In addition to this, best is not as great a title as it may have been in the past. If Joker is the best, he's far from unbeatable. Perhaps past games have given a somewhat more prestigious reputation to title of best than is warranted here. Even if the girls are the best, then that doesn't mean they are necessarily over powered.

He gets his reputation from the "perfect play" fallacy where he seems to have all the attributes (small, good frame data, burst movement) that can allow one to be untouchable without mistakes... but the truth is very, very few players can do that consistently, or keep up the mental fortitude. This is a problem that notably plagues Sheik in this game, lacking reliable ways to end stocks early without relying on gimps in a game where recoveries don't (usually) suck. And she actually has a good recovery and projectiles to use; frankly I don't see Mythra having a sword making up for those shortcomings if she were by her lonesome.

 

[Teeb147]

Pichu and Sheik are lightweights. As good as they can be, one small mistake and you're gone.
I really like mythra's weight class. It makes a big difference and I'm glad I can afford a few mistakes compared to pichu.

 

[Arthur97]

Well, they're heavier, but with a worse recovery. Though, Chrom (and Roy if you count his) and Cloud have done well with bad recoveries.

 

[Teeb147]

Personally I think Roy is top tier. And really he's fast and with a sword too. So I don't think it's all too much different from our new girls.
just imo

 

[Arthur97]

OH yeah, Roy is generally thought of as pretty good (Chrom to perhaps a slightly less result). Bad recovery isn't necessarily a sentence to low tier, and the girls don't even have that bad of one. Not great, but they can manage at least.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

One thing that does seem odd to me is that if Mythra excels in speed, she should've at least been made fast enough to outrun Captain Falcon; Sonic has to be the fastest runner for obvious reasons.

 

[Arthur97]

Captain Falcon's dash speed is also kind of a staple. I can see them not wanting to push him further down. Plus, there's more to speed than dashing.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Captain Falcon's dash speed is also kind of a staple. I can see them not wanting to push him further down. Plus, there's more to speed than dashing.

Perhaps. I just think that in the case of Mythra, she feels like she should've been made fast enough to give Captain Falcon a run for his money, but Sonic would still outrun her by a massive amount.

On a side note, I would also argue that Mytha's air speed probably should've been made stronger, just to make her overall recovery a tad better; it's not exactly great, due to her high falling speed, combined with the linear movements of her two recovery moves.

 

[HypnoMaster372]

Captain Falcon's dash speed is also kind of a staple. I can see them not wanting to push him further down. Plus, there's more to speed than dashing.

Like how Mythra happen to have the fastest Initial Dash in the game, allowing her to more efficiently turnaround.

 

[Arthur97]

Photon Edge is linear, but without a projectile or counter (if it would hit) it doesn't seem like something that is super easy to intercept. I think her speed is fine, though I'm not sure about Pyra's offense. I've mentioned it before, but for it to be her apparent Foresight equivalent, Pyra's f-smash isn't that impressive. It's big, sure, but not even the strongest in the game. Compare that to Foresight.

 

[AnEasterEgg]

As long as your shield isn't already significantly weakened, it pretty much counters Photon Edge, and the endlag leaves Mythra wide open. I feel like it's actually a pretty easy move to deal with.

 

[Arthur97]

As long as your shield isn't already significantly weakened, it pretty much counters Photon Edge, and the endlag leaves Mythra wide open. I feel like it's actually a pretty easy move to deal with.

Sure...on the ground. As a recovery, it's potentially a bit trickier. There is a potential issue with Mythra potentially going past the ledge before...going back to the ledge when it's done, but going out to meet Photon Edge in the air may not be so easy.

 

[Teeb147]

Pyra is strong enough XD A bit too strong considering her range. But her slowness still make her just average as a character.. again besides up-b XD
Down air to up-smash is great too.

 

[Arthur97]

I mean, if it's her "gimmick" that one move could stand to be stronger. Either way, just average is...average.

 

[Teeb147]

I mean, if it's her "gimmick" that one move could stand to be stronger. Either way, just average is...average.

I don't really care since she has plenty that's strong. But for an f-smash it's definitely strong, and quicker than other ones that are that strong or stronger.

 

[Arthur97]

Had it just been a move, then, yeah, sure. But they hyped it up as some special thing even giving it it's own moveset tab when it's just not that impressive or even really unique. It's just...an above averagely strong forward smash. It seems like something they called special so she'd technically have something to mirror Mythra even if it's not really all that special. Like, don't pretend this is special. Even if there was nothing to replace it, it's not really warranting being considered a special attribute. Really though, she seemed to need something more than Mythra if they had to give out extra gimmicks. Problem is, the game didn't really give her much of anything to use for one.

 

[Teeb147]

Had it just been a move, then, yeah, sure. But they hyped it up as some special thing even giving it it's own moveset tab when it's just not that impressive or even really unique. It's just...an above averagely strong forward smash. It seems like something they called special so she'd technically have something to mirror Mythra even if it's not really all that special. Like, don't pretend this is special. Even if there was nothing to replace it, it's not really warranting being considered a special attribute. Really though, she seemed to need something more than Mythra if they had to give out extra gimmicks. Problem is, the game didn't really give her much of anything to use for one.

You gotta let it go XD

 

[jahkzheng]

Don't think this warrants it's own thread or anything, so I'll just mention it here. I've been wondering.... where's our Mythra stock icon "smiley" for Smash Ultimate?

We have Pyra of course..
..but not her other half.

PT has all three pokemon so I imagine Mythra will happen eventually, but just want to point out her absence.

Tbf, seems as if in the game itself that the default icon for Pyra and Mythra is Pyra. In replays, even if you started the match as Mythra and never switch, it previews the combatants with Pyra's icon. Likewise, it's Pyra's portrait alone in the character records screen, representing both. The stock icons do change when you switch during a match, however.

Anyways, hopefully we get the Mythra icon soon in our emotes to go with the Pyra we have already.

 

[meleebrawler]

Had it just been a move, then, yeah, sure. But they hyped it up as some special thing even giving it it's own moveset tab when it's just not that impressive or even really unique. It's just...an above averagely strong forward smash. It seems like something they called special so she'd technically have something to mirror Mythra even if it's not really all that special. Like, don't pretend this is special. Even if there was nothing to replace it, it's not really warranting being considered a special attribute. Really though, she seemed to need something more than Mythra if they had to give out extra gimmicks. Problem is, the game didn't really give her much of anything to use for one.

The flashiest thing about Pyra is the amount of burst damage she can do with a level 3, and we got that, plus her specials being more impressive.

 

[Arthur97]

The flashiest thing about Pyra is the amount of burst damage she can do with a level 3, and we got that, plus her specials being more impressive.

I get that, but I still don't think they should have listed that f-smash as something special. It's less unique than other f-smashes like Mega Man's. It's just...not very unique or worthy of being called a gimmick. They should have just been more upfront that she doesn't really have a particular gimmick to match foresight. She doesn't have to have one, but don't try to sell me something so standard as an f-smash as something special. It's also the borderline false advertising. Or at least bizarre advertising. It'd be like calling Ganondorf's forward smash a special attribute. It kinda screams they wanted them to match or something whether they actually did or not.

 

[Teeb147]

I get that, but I still don't think they should have listed that f-smash as something special. It's less unique than other f-smashes like Mega Man's. It's just...not very unique or worthy of being called a gimmick. They should have just been more upfront that she doesn't really have a particular gimmick to match foresight. She doesn't have to have one, but don't try to sell me something so standard as an f-smash as something special. It's also the borderline false advertising. Or at least bizarre advertising. It'd be like calling Ganondorf's forward smash a special attribute. It kinda screams they wanted them to match or something whether they actually did or not.

You've already said this like 10 times. Might be time to drop it. We know you don't like the advertising.

 

[meleebrawler]

You've already said this like 10 times. Might be time to drop it. We know you don't like the advertising.

He's just mad because this is Pyra we are talking about.

 

[Arthur97]

He's just mad because this is Pyra we are talking about.

Okay, let's not get personal, yes, I'm biased, but this would be a weird move on anyone. Like I said, it's not special. Why say it is when it isn't? Again, she doesn't have to have something to replace it, but this just screams at a poor way to give them symmetry.

 

[meleebrawler]

Okay, let's not get personal, yes, I'm biased, but this would be a weird move on anyone. Like I said, it's not special. Why say it is when it isn't? Again, she doesn't have to have something to replace it, but this just screams at a poor way to give them symmetry.

Well, I'm sorry that Monolith Soft couldn't read your mind to find out you, personally, don't consider high power a noteworthy attribute.

Just watch as they make Smash Flare a canon move in the next game they make featuring her.

 

[Dukefire]

From my experience, of course Pyra is power and Mythra is speed.

To me, they are a little sluggish as switching characters from power to speed or vice versa. I'm not used to both fighter's moveset yet (especially Pyra's Blazing End on how the blade spin and unable to attack until it finishes.) with how I can maneuver around.

Any tips on using the duo better?

 

[Arthur97]

Well, I'm sorry that Monolith Soft couldn't read your mind to find out you, personally, don't consider high power a noteworthy attribute.

Just watch as they make Smash Flare a canon move in the next game they make featuring her.

Okay, insult aside, I'm not sure you're getting the whole point. A strong f-smash, isn't particularly special. Dr. Mario has one of the strongest forward smashes in the game, but you don't really hear people talk about it much. We know Pyra is stronger. She's a strong fighter with strong moves. Again, that's like pointing and Ganondorf and saying his power is a gimmick. No, those are his attributes. That's just how he is. Conversely, it'd be like if they said Mythra's gimmick was having a fast smash attack. And, if they take the burst damage as Pyra's thing, fine, but that doesn't really fit as a gimmick, at least how they did it. Being strong or fast is not a gimmick. I know Pyra didn't really have anything like Foresight, so they either could have just said, "yeah, she's strong but doesn't really have her own gimmick" or they could have made something up. An f-smash is not a gimmick even if they want you to think it is for some reason. Or, if they still wanted to go with it, actually at least give it a distinction as strongest. Not like it isn't slow anyway. Even then, probably shouldn't get it's own tab on the moveset list. Take a look at those. Most if not all of them are for somewhat unconventional moves or mechanics.

Flare Smash just really isn't that special, yet they hyped it up. Why claim a gimmick that isn't really a gimmick? For symmetry? Does she need one? Not necessarily maybe, but, come on, if you don't have something just admit it.

 

[Teeb147]

A Arthur97 the thing is what's done is done. Pyra is strong, and even if she doesn't have a special attribute like Mythra besides being strong in general, you're just complaining over and over about something you can't change. Either learn to appreciate her or find another way to process those feelings. Nintendo has never been perfect, I don't know why you expect everything to be well aligned. We're lucky to have them and what we got is what we got.

 

[Lamperouge]

It might not be anything special but Smash Flare is probably my favorite side smash attack to land because of the effects and the extremely satisfying sound it makes.

 

[Teeb147]

So apparently Mythra's air dodge was programmed to grab the ledge like a teleport, so if you time it right you're invincible all the way with it to grab the ledge (can't be two framed).

Void made a video about it (it's not that interesting), he's been playing the character like crazy so it'll be interesting to see what else he finds with them.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

This week's commemorative tournament concerns fighters than can "transform" themselves, mainly by wearing different outfits or swapping characters.

【トーナメントイベント】
3/12(金)から3日間、「百花繚乱！ いろんな姿のファイターたち」を開催！カラーチェンジによって変身したり、別人になったり、身に着けているものの形が変わるファイターのみ出場できるトーナメントです。 勝ち進むほど、豪華なスピリッツが手に入ります。#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/wDorl5Ti09

— 大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ【スマブラ公式】 (@SmashBrosJP) March 10, 2021

Fancy stuff, really.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The funny thing about Pyra's f-smash is that even though its knockback strength can be scary, it's not a unique trait; Bowser's and Incineroar's f-smash are just as mighty with their knockback if you land the sweetspots. But what does work in Pyra's favor is that her sword gives her a longer reach, while Bowser and Incineroar (without a Revenge boost) both risk getting shield-grabbed if their f-smashes are blocked.