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Social Two Sides of the Same Aegis: The Pyra & Mythra Social thread

Garo

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Does anyone know if there's a character chart that shows who you should use Chroma Dust against instead of Ray of Punishment for max damage?
 

meleebrawler

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Does anyone know if there's a character chart that shows who you should use Chroma Dust against instead of Ray of Punishment for max damage?
Unless your opponent, regardless of size, ends up very close to Mythra after the jump, you are almost never doing more damage with Dust. It has a better knockback angle for Edge guarding, though.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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It's also worth noting that although the Chroma Dust projectiles have stronger BKB, Ray of Punishment has stronger KBG with its clean hit projectile. Also, the Ray of Punishment projectile has a larger hitbox, so it's less likely to miss the target if it was launched by the first hit.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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Mushroomguy12

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Netolabo did a survey asks for your most favorite character from Smash Ultimate.
There was a total of 19,757 participations from March 27th to April 10th.
https://nlab.itmedia.co.jp/research/articles/172655/

1. Pyra/Mythra - 1318
2. Ganondorf - 982
3. Joker - 963
4. Kirby - 839
5. Byleth - 590
6. Cloud - 554
7. Terry - 495
8. Sephiroth - 459
9. Captain Falcon - 456
10. Hero - 404
11. Ness - 373
12. King K. Rool - 328
13. Ike - 327
14. Snake - 323
15. Corrin - 320
16. Mr. Game & Watch - 315
17. Zelda - 311
18. Pikachu - 303
19. Jigglypuff - 300
20. Lucas - 297
21. Lucina - 295
22. Link - 292
23. Robin - 289
24. R.O.B. - 272
25. King Dedede - 269
26. Greninja - 264
27. Yoshi - 254
28. Sonic - 251
29. Bowser - 243
30. Marth - 228
31. Incineroar - 223
32. Inkling - 218
33. Donkey Kong - 216
34. Mario - 211
35. Bayonetta - 210
35. Roy - 210
35. Meta Knight - 210
38. Dark Pit - 203
39. Wolf - 192
40. Ridley - 183
41. Banjo & Kazooie - 167
42. Shulk - 164
42. Little Mac - 164
44. Mewtwo - 163
45. Wii Fit Trainer - 162
46. Palutena - 161
47. Lucario - 153
48. Piranha Plant - 151
49. Samus - 147
50. Zero Suit Samus - 145
51. Pac-Man - 139
52. Mega Man - 135
53. Isabella 134
54. Pokemon Trainer - 131
55. Ice Climbers - 128
56. Pit - 127
57. Villager - 124
57. Steve - 124
59. Luigi - 121
59. Ken - 121
61. Chrom - 116
62. Pichu - 114
63. Falco - 110
64. Mii Gunner - 109
65. Toon Link - 105
66. Richter - 104
66. Bowser Jr. - 104
68. Fox - 102
69. Min Min - 101
70. Sheik - 97
71. Ryu - 96
72. Rosalina & Luma - 81
73. Young Link - 76
74. Duck Hunt - 72
75. Simon - 65
76. Wario - 62
77. Dark Samus - 57
77. Mii Brawler - 57
79. Dr. Mario - 55
80. Peach - 52
81. Olimar - 49
82. Daisy - 48
83. Mii Swordfighter - 43
84. Diddy Kong - 28
Saw this on the newcomer thread. Pyra and Mythra seem to be quite popular.
 

DanganZilla5

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I am coming in here to say that I'm super grateful that Pyra/Mythra are in Smash. Not just because they are fun and brought some cool content with them, but it got me to play Xenoblade 2 the day after they were announced and last night I made it to the end of chapter 7. For those of you who have played the game, you know just how heartwarming, emotional, and beautiful that whole ending sequence is. I was already enjoying the game a lot up to that point, but the ending to this chapter solidified the themes of this game and it solidified my love for the game. And to think that I still got 3 more chapters and a whole DLC story to get immersed in. This is truly a phenomenal game and I love the characters so much. I can't wait until later on today when I have the time to play this game.

"I love this world because you are in it."

God my heart.
 
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DanganZilla5

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Excuse the double post.

I present to you all my 17 page essay on Xenoblade 2. Don't read unless you finished the whole game. Spoilers ahoy. I hope you enjoy reading it as much as it was for me to make it. I'm so grateful this game exists. Let me know what you think.
 

Attachments

meleebrawler

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Does anyone find the treatment Razewing Ratha gets in Monster Hunter Stories reminiscent of a lot of XC2's early moments?

 

DanganZilla5

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I just beat Torna The Golden Country last night and yep, I cried again. What an ending. Torna is truly an experience on it's own and a great compliment to the main game. Once you get the entire picture of the story and the characters and their motives, it's something truly special. God I love Xenoblade 2 so, so much.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Still pretty much waiting for the day when the next DLC fighter is revealed, but during the wait, I did tweak Pyra's and Mythra's attributes a bit more.

Code:
--------------------
Pyra

            walk_accel_mul: 0.11 -> 0.105
            walk_accel_add: 0.09 -> 0.105
            walk_speed_max: 0.92 -> 1.21
              ground_brake: 0.08 -> 0.102
                dash_speed: 1.69 -> 2
             run_accel_mul: 0.11 -> 0.16
             run_accel_add: 0.015 -> 0.02
             run_speed_max: 1.38 -> 1.8
            jump_initial_y: 14.728 -> 15.68
                    jump_y: 26.3 -> 28
               mini_jump_y: 15.2 -> 15.5
             jump_aerial_y: 29 -> 30
           air_accel_x_mul: 0.055 -> 0.09
        air_speed_x_stable: 1.1 -> 1.26
               air_brake_x: 0.009 -> 0.03
               air_accel_y: 0.078 -> 0.075
        air_speed_y_stable: 1.62 -> 1.65
damage_fly_top_air_accel_y: 0.074928 -> 0.073125
               air_brake_y: 0.009 -> 0.015
              dive_speed_y: 2.592 -> 2.64
                    weight: 98 -> 95
    air_ground_speed_brake: 0.027 -> 0.09
      shoot_walk_accel_mul: 0.088 -> 0.084
      shoot_walk_accel_add: 0.072 -> 0.084
      shoot_walk_speed_max: 0.92 -> 1.21
        shoot_dash_speed_f: 1.352 -> 1.6
        shoot_dash_speed_b: 1.0816 -> 1.28
--------------------
Mythra

            walk_accel_mul: 0.13 -> 0.21
            walk_accel_add: 0.11 -> 0.105
            walk_speed_max: 1.42 -> 1.7
              ground_brake: 0.121 -> 0.14
                dash_speed: 2.45 -> 2.6
             run_accel_mul: 0.12 -> 0.2
             run_speed_max: 2.41 -> 2.8
            jump_initial_y: 17.248 -> 18.48
                    jump_y: 30.8 -> 33
               mini_jump_y: 15.6 -> 16
             jump_aerial_y: 33 -> 35
           air_accel_x_mul: 0.06 -> 0.11
        air_speed_x_stable: 1.22 -> 1.4
               air_brake_x: 0.012 -> 0.06
               air_accel_y: 0.137 -> 0.125
        air_speed_y_stable: 1.87 -> 1.95
damage_fly_top_air_accel_y: 0.072912 -> 0.073125
              dive_speed_y: 2.992 -> 3.12
                    weight: 92 -> 95
    air_ground_speed_brake: 0.036 -> 0.18
         star_attack_power: 14 -> 15
      shoot_walk_accel_mul: 0.104 -> 0.168
      shoot_walk_accel_add: 0.088 -> 0.084
      shoot_walk_speed_max: 1.42 -> 1.7
        shoot_dash_speed_f: 1.96 -> 2.08
        shoot_dash_speed_b: 1.568 -> 1.664
--------------------
 

~The Koopa King~

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are there just a lack of pyra/mythra players or something?

noticed the Pyra/Mythra discord is very quiet and doesn't have a lot of people in it
 

DanganZilla5

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are there just a lack of pyra/mythra players or something?

noticed the Pyra/Mythra discord is very quiet and doesn't have a lot of people in it
Most likely it's because the hype has moved over to Kazuya. Although if it's dedicated Pythra players it could simply be because interest has died down which naturally happens.
 

RawkHawk2010

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SW-5576-5912-4888
i was looking at the one linked by smashcord
Yeah, that's the problem. The Pyra/Mythra Discord with 9K people finally delisted themselves after they were repeatedly accused by Smashcords owner and self-proclaimed XC2 hater "Lewdcario" of allowing NSFW art in the server (the definition for "NSFW" in this case turning out to mean basically any Pyra art whatsoever).


You can read more about it here.
 

~The Koopa King~

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Yeah, that's the problem. The Pyra/Mythra Discord with 9K people finally delisted themselves after they were repeatedly accused by Smashcords owner and self-proclaimed XC2 hater "Lewdcario" of allowing NSFW art in the server (the definition for "NSFW" in this case turning out to mean basically any Pyra art whatsoever).


You can read more about it here.
ooof well can't blame me for not knowing that....but from what I'm understanding that Pyra/Mythra discord is now more of a general xenoblade discussion discord according to a tweet i found and the new Pyra/mythra discord is for smash players

so i wouldn't really be getting much from the old one at this point
 
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Mario & Sonic Guy

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In other news, the following drawings did pop up a few days ago...

 

Bobthealligator

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I'm trying to work out if I should stick as an Aegis main. I love Xenoblade 2 and they're a lot of fun, plus they were my most wanted (besides Phoenix but he doesn't really have a chance). But I'm better as zoners and my small brainedness only really allows me to remember how to play one character at a time.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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A few days ago, I did a modification to Pyra and Mythra, which fixes up a rather notable weakness that they have with their flurry attacks; they're easily countered by shield-grabs, due to their long start-up. I decreased the start-up by 3 frames, which in return, makes Pyra's flurry attack hit on frame 6, while Mythra's flurry attack hits on frame 5.

PyraMythraFlurryStartupReduction3a.png


PyraMythraFlurryStartupReduction4a.png


Of course, while the mod helps to counter shield-grabbing, it doesn't prevent perfect shielding; if any of the first two neutral attack hits get perfect shielded, then Pyra and Mythra will become highly vulnerable to punishment.

Anyway, you can check out the mod itself at the following link...


I also made some animations that show the edits in action...


 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Mythra already has a difficult enough time making KOs (especially when most of her attacks can't KO until you're nearing sudden death levels and beyond), so it seems a bit odd that one of her KO move options ended up getting nerfed in the knockback department.

Maybe it was done so that players are more prone into having to switch over to Pyra?
 
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meleebrawler

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Mythra already has a difficult enough time making KOs (especially when most of her attacks can't KO until you're nearing sudden death levels and beyond), so it seems a bit odd that one of her KO move options ended up getting nerfed in the knockback department.

Maybe it was done so that players are more prone into having to switch over to Pyra?
The move was a bit too strong considering the range and speed it has. There is still Lightning Buster.

But the notion that people only see Pyra as a burden needs to stop, just look at this:

I wasn't sure if I was going to make this post, but after talking about this a bit with @Thinkaman I thought I'd throw my impression on the table.

I was (and am, in some ways) probably one of the biggest Pyra/Mythra doubters on the planet, but I am now fully in support of nerfs for them. It's just a silly design that Mythra can win neutral with 0 commitment in so many matchups and then ledgetrap you so hard by switching to Pyra.

Before, it seemed to me that it was mostly Mythra who was overtuned, and that Pyra balanced her out. I've fallen out of this opinion over the last few months.

The things that Mythra can do on reaction are alone pretty excellent, similar to Fox but with better burst range and a disjoint. Sometimes when I watch Cosmos vs. Nairo it looks like Nairo is actually frozen because of how fast Mythra is. During Mainstage, I saw Leo using double jump mixup in neutral just to avoid landing in a space where Mythra could dash attack. At Port Priority, I saw Tweek run to the corner and try to fake a banana pull so that he doesn't get dash attacked for starting his gameplan.

Beacuse of this, I had been thinking for a while that top-level Aegis looks mostly like the Mythra show with a bit of Pyra sprinkled in. It just made sense from a theory perspective and when I was watching matches.

But whenever I was playing against good players (offline), this wasn't working that well for me. Mythra was winning neutral for free, but there were so many times past 50% where Mythra's reward just wasn't there. Mythra would catch a roll from ledge with what, b-air or back hit of d-smash? That's nothing, just leads to neutral reset soon after if not right away. All the opponent needed was one good offstage read and I lost all my progress.

To my surprise, I realized that I was doing better piloting mostly Pyra despite not having "free" neutral, and I tried to come up with a way to focus on Pyra over Mythra. Have Mythra act as a ferry and get Pyra to where she needs to be, then swap with a short hop and start swinging giant hitboxes.

It turns out that Sparg0 does exactly this a lot, but instead of swapping immediately and risking a read on his swap, he waits to get a hit with Mythra before bringing out the Pyra. And from that point, the character's real strength is clear.

People are dramatically underestimating Pyra.

You've all seen d-air -> up-smash. It starts from a big move that covers many options and is pretty safe, and kills early. The risk-reward on it is amazing. But this (very good) kill confirm isn't the focus of this post. The real focus of this post is Pyra's other great moves. jab, f-tilt, up-tilt, up-air, n-air, f-air... Pyra oozes quality moves for ledge and neutral. Comparisons are drawn to Ike or to Ganon, but while Ike and Ganon have some good moves, Pyra both outnumbers them in options and has way better options. Ganon dash attack and up-air are some of the best moves in the game, but Pyra n-air alone is just in a different league. A big disjointed hitbox starting behind Pyra, then covering all sides of her, that not only can reverse disadvantage but can kill you for trying to bait an airdodge.

And while you might think that Pyra having high startup balances it, this is what happens on frame 10 of her d-air, for example:

View attachment 337978

View attachment 337977

A crazy hurtbox shift that has allowed sparg0 to fastfall land with a kill confirm in disadvantage in bracket several times. And I don't even think this move is comparable to f-tilt.

This is without Mythra. The worst/best thing about it is, if committing to any of Pyra's (very safe) tools puts you in a bad position where you don't have stage, you can just go back to Mythra!

I literally saw Pyra double f-tilt at ledge like 7 times this weekend without punishment, and then when she failed the ledgetrap, there were sometimes no consequences for losing stage because Mythra was back forcing the opponent into the corner from center stage. That's entirely silly.

The representation is definitely there, and top player attitudes towards picking the duo up say a lot to me. I don't know how serious all the top players are, but it's telling that Fatality is considering secondarying the character, and Leo said in an interview, "I've been practicing Pyra/Mythra because I know I will need them eventually."

While I don't think they're broken or necessarily even the best in the game at top level, there are parts of Pyra/Mythra's design that just feel too suffocating and too replicable. I would like to see a handful of touchups to some of their best moves, or to Swap so that Pyra -> Mythra is more of a commitment.
tl;dr Using too much Mythra past low percents can actually hurt your damage output in the long run, and she kind of lets Pyra circumvent the usual "heavy has busted moves in a vacuum held back by mobility" thing.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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The move was a bit too strong considering the range and speed it has. There is still Lightning Buster.
Ironic, considering that when you compare Mythra's f-smash to Yoshi's f-smash, both attacks hit on frame 14, but the latter deals more damage and knockback overall. And of course, Yoshi's head is intangible during the attack. But when you think it over, Mythra's f-smash does have more range, so I guess being less powerful makes some sense.

In terms of Lightning Buster, it does need to be fully charged to gain the best possible KO potency. Not many players are going to let Mythra pull that off.
 
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