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Social Two Sides of the Same Aegis: The Pyra & Mythra Social thread

meleebrawler

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If they did that this comic would have a VERY different tone.
At the moment I'm not digging the probably unintentional yet unfortunate tone that average weight is overweight for females. They could've just given them undershirts for the sake of this comic (you know, like you do during a checkup?), because at the moment WFT kind of looks silly not seeing that Mythra is clearly wearing lighter clothing that could explain her lower weight.
 
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Mario & Sonic Guy

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Not related to Pyra and Mythra, but today marks a full year since I first started playing Super Smash Bros. Ultimate (or at least at my own home). Boy has time flown by since then.
 

Gamma Ray

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There's only a measly two-point difference in weight between Pyra and Wii Fit, though. And aren't you supposed to take most of your clothes off to get an accurate reading?
Pyra's weight is 98 and Mythra's is 92, so it's actually 6. Still doesn't make any sense if you disregard character balancing, but then again they're also way taller in Smash than they are canonically.

Edit: Ignore me I misread. Characters heights and weights are interesting though lol.
 
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Lamperouge

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Been messing around with Pyra more lately (Mythra is just too much fun and sees the bulk of use) and I've come to realize that Flame Nova is a pretty great tool for edge guarding. Dunno why I don't see more people trying to use it to bait get up attacks and rolls back onto stage.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Considering that edge attack hitboxes are active before the intangible period ends, they would pierce right through Flame Nova and hit Pyra; edge attacks have transcendent priority. So while the idea of edge-guarding with Flame Nova may seem good on paper, it's not a fool-proof tactic if fighters are recovering low, and Pyra's hurtboxes are within range of the edge attack's hitboxes.
 

Teeb147

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I find myself not using Flame Nova at all except to experiment. It can ko when you charge it.. but it's pretty commital and I think trying to find openings for other moves is better.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Yeah, Flame Nova is what one would consider a situational attack, and Pyra does have KO moves that don't require you to have to charge them up.

Whereas, for Mythra's Lightning Buster, it's a more potent attack when compared to Flame Nova, thanks to its longer attack range; it can even counter Dedede's Gordos, shutting down that kind of attack plan if Dedede doesn't get in close.
 

Teeb147

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Lightning Buster also has a hitbox on top when you charge it. Some people us it to combo from down tilt and up tilt, it's a bit hard to pull off, but the move is definitely useful, especially that she doesn't have many otehr good ko moves.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Things are slowing down a bit I think now :p
Amazing how a thread can turn into a ghost town after the characters are finally available to play.

With that said, the amount of time that I've spent playing around with Pyra and Mythra ended up placing them as my 2nd most used fighter in my game records; Rosalina is my most used. In contrast, Bayonetta is my least used fighter, and that's partially because I don't like her all that much.

And because I'm able to mod my game, I did a bit of a what-if scenario on Pyra's and Mythra's attributes.
Code:
Pyra

            walk_accel_mul: 0.11 -> 0.105
            walk_accel_add: 0.09 -> 0.105
            walk_speed_max: 0.92 -> 1.21
              ground_brake: 0.08 -> 0.102
                dash_speed: 1.69 -> 2
             run_speed_max: 1.38 -> 1.8
           air_accel_x_mul: 0.055 -> 0.09
        air_speed_x_stable: 1.1 -> 1.26
               air_brake_x: 0.009 -> 0.0275
               air_accel_y: 0.078 -> 0.075
        air_speed_y_stable: 1.62 -> 1.65
damage_fly_top_air_accel_y: 0.074928 -> 0.073125
               air_brake_y: 0.009 -> 0.015
              dive_speed_y: 2.592 -> 2.64
                    weight: 98 -> 95
    air_ground_speed_brake: 0.027 -> 0.0825
      shoot_walk_accel_mul: 0.088 -> 0.084
      shoot_walk_accel_add: 0.072 -> 0.084
      shoot_walk_speed_max: 0.92 -> 1.21
        shoot_dash_speed_f: 1.352 -> 1.6
        shoot_dash_speed_b: 1.0816 -> 1.28
--------------------
Mythra

            walk_accel_mul: 0.13 -> 0.21
            walk_accel_add: 0.11 -> 0.105
            walk_speed_max: 1.42 -> 1.7
              ground_brake: 0.121 -> 0.14
                dash_speed: 2.45 -> 2.6
             run_speed_max: 2.41 -> 2.8
           air_accel_x_mul: 0.06 -> 0.11
        air_speed_x_stable: 1.22 -> 1.4
               air_brake_x: 0.012 -> 0.06
               air_accel_y: 0.137 -> 0.125
        air_speed_y_stable: 1.87 -> 1.95
damage_fly_top_air_accel_y: 0.072912 -> 0.073125
              dive_speed_y: 2.992 -> 3.12
                    weight: 92 -> 95
    air_ground_speed_brake: 0.036 -> 0.18
         star_attack_power: 14 -> 15
      shoot_walk_accel_mul: 0.104 -> 0.168
      shoot_walk_accel_add: 0.088 -> 0.084
      shoot_walk_speed_max: 1.42 -> 1.7
        shoot_dash_speed_f: 1.96 -> 2.08
        shoot_dash_speed_b: 1.568 -> 1.664
Pyra becomes less sluggish overall, but is still much slower than Mythra, despite running slightly faster than Mythra's walking. The two also share the same weight, resulting in them getting KO'd at roughly the same damage percentages.
 
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It’s interesting to note that since characters like Pikachu and Mario follow their projectiles to put on additional pressure themselves, they can punish you for trying to get a sneaky Foresight in on jolt/fireball.
 

meleebrawler

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Having played Smash Ultimate since launch, it's unlikely any late DLC will actually dethrone my most used characters overall (not that I really keep much track).

What Pyra & Mythra have done for me, though, is immediately rocket to being my highest GSP fighter yet. I've never had a fighter that perfectly blends being one I like as a character and one I enjoy playing as much as this. Stance characters just speak to me. Isn't that right, Aegislash?

 

meleebrawler

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The funniest part of Pyra's attribute differences to me is that she both carries heavy things faster and throws items further than Mythra. So it's not just that her sword and fire pack more of a punch, she is literally more buff too.
 

Firox

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The funniest part of Pyra's attribute differences to me is that she both carries heavy things faster and throws items further than Mythra. So it's not just that her sword and fire pack more of a punch, she is literally more buff too.
Interesting. Maybe Pyra's increased muscle density explains why she weighs more than Mythra. If so, it means that the girls change more than just their hair color/style and clothes when they switch. They actually have physical differences. Now I'm thinking about that guy with the multiple personalities from the movie "Split". Remember how his "Beast" personality gained tons of muscle mass and other abilities?
 

meleebrawler

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Interesting. Maybe Pyra's increased muscle density explains why she weighs more than Mythra. If so, it means that the girls change more than just their hair color/style and clothes when they switch. They actually have physical differences. Now I'm thinking about that guy with the multiple personalities from the movie "Split". Remember how his "Beast" personality gained tons of muscle mass and other abilities?
Said clothes are the actual reason for the difference in weight, even Monolith writers say so. Pyra could end up with a muscle advantage, however slight, lugging comparatively heavy equipment around, though, in addition to not being able to tap into their true element as much forcing more reliance on physical exertion on Pyra's part.
 
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HypnoMaster372

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Interesting. Maybe Pyra's increased muscle density explains why she weighs more than Mythra.
Heh, someone beaten me to the punch.

Tbh I’ve always considered the diffeneces between their bodies as having altered muscle density than anything else.


Edit
Said clothes are the actual reason for the difference in weight, even Monolith writers say so. Pyra could end up with a muscle advantage, however slight, lugging comparatively heavy equipment around, though, in addition to not being able to tap into their true element as much forcing more reliance on physical exertion on Pyra's part.
Seriously? Is there a source for this?
 
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meleebrawler

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Heh, someone beaten me to the punch.

Tbh I’ve always considered the diffeneces between their bodies as having altered muscle density than anything else.


Edit

Seriously? Is there a source for this?
Concept art, apparently. Not that you really need someone to tell you that Pyra is wearing solid metal and Mythra isn't.
 

Firox

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Said clothes are the actual reason for the difference in weight, even Monolith writers say so. Pyra could end up with a muscle advantage, however slight, lugging comparatively heavy equipment around, though, in addition to not being able to tap into their true element as much forcing more reliance on physical exertion on Pyra's part.
An interesting argument under the assumption that Mythra canonically wears less clothing than Pyra, but then again, the "Tights Mythra" costume has been canonized so I'm not sure how well this applies to the Smash incarnation of Pythra.
 

meleebrawler

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An interesting argument under the assumption that Mythra canonically wears less clothing than Pyra, but then again, the "Tights Mythra" costume has been canonized so I'm not sure how well this applies to the Smash incarnation of Pythra.
You missed the post where I mentioned it's not about how much she wears, but rather what those clothes are made of, huh?
 

Teeb147

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More muscle doesn't equal strength XD. Even a trainer once told me strength has as much or more to do with the mental aspect, the connection to the muscles, not just the muscles themselves. And if you have a strong heart, nothing's impossible, like lifting a car in an emergency to save someone.
 

Firox

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You missed the post where I mentioned it's not about how much she wears, but rather what those clothes are made of, huh?
No need to sound so condescending. I didn't miss it, I just wasn't sure how valid a point it was. Logically speaking, more clothing would inherently yield more weight regardless of the material. It's not like either of them are wearing any plate armor or anything. Do you happen to have any sources indicating the composition of their outfits?
 

meleebrawler

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No need to sound so condescending. I didn't miss it, I just wasn't sure how valid a point it was. Logically speaking, more clothing would inherently yield more weight regardless of the material. It's not like either of them are wearing any plate armor or anything. Do you happen to have any sources indicating the composition of their outfits?
As I also mentioned in a previous post, the concept artbook has comments to that effect. There certainly isn't visible difference in their bodies that would explain the discrepancy (which, we should probably remind ourselves, is not that big). And I don't really see how a skintight suit comes close to weighing as much as metal greaves and a chestpiece.

More muscle doesn't equal strength XD. Even a trainer once told me strength has as much or more to do with the mental aspect, the connection to the muscles, not just the muscles themselves. And if you have a strong heart, nothing's impossible, like lifting a car in an emergency to save someone.
Fair enough, it may be more accurate to say Pyra is simply more accustomed to using more of her physical strength than Mythra is.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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In regards to the physical strength ordeal, Pyra and Mythra pretty much share the same body frame (they are one in the same after all), so you can't really tell that Pyra is physically stronger than Mythra, just by looking at their bodies.

This is basically a moment where actions speak better than words.
 

Teeb147

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Pyra's definitely strong anyway XD. Though considering how slow she swings her sword, it kinda feels like the sword flames have a lot to do with it too :p
 

Aussie Kirby

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At first when P&M were revealed, I was personally indifferent. Didn't really care about Xenoblade. When they came out... oh man.
They're honestly one of the most fun additions to Smash for me. And then my friend lent me Xenoblade 2 after hearing I wanted to try it for myself. While I do have my gripes with the game (mainly in the tutorial and compass department), I genuinely had a lot of fun. This only increased my drive to play them more in Smash. Now they're pretty much alongside Kirby, Joker, Dedede, and Sephiroth as my go-to characters now.

and that's the story on how i went from genuine "meh" to "oh my god i love them dearly"
 

Nihilem

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I hope they dont get nerved to low tier ..... saw some pros complaining about them beeing OP and "the new bayonetta".....
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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I hope they dont get nerved to low tier ..... saw some pros complaining about them beeing OP and "the new bayonetta".....
There's not much that's wrong with Mythra, since her limited KO move options balances out her high overall mobility.

Pyra, however, can be considered questionable, since despite being considerably slower on-foot than Mythra, almost all of her standard attacks have KO viability. And there's also a weight imbalance between the two; personally, I feel that they should be sharing the same weight, and be KO'd at roughly the same damage percentages.
 

Nah

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Wouldn't be much point in having them as a duo if they were made to be more similar.

afaik most people consider Mythra the more problematic of the two, but I'd rather not see nerfs to either of them. They're fine as is, there's gross characters out there, and more important issues imo to fix in this game.
 

meleebrawler

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There's not much that's wrong with Mythra, since her limited KO move options balances out her high overall mobility.

Pyra, however, can be considered questionable, since despite being considerably slower on-foot than Mythra, almost all of her standard attacks have KO viability. And there's also a weight imbalance between the two; personally, I feel that they should be sharing the same weight, and be KO'd at roughly the same damage percentages.
The weight difference... really does not make much of one. It's certainly not enough to compel me to switch to Pyra at high percents for survivability the way Charizard does. Keep in mind things like fall speed and gravity also affect how early you get KOed by some moves, this is why Dedede is the hardest character to KO off the top despite not being the actual heaviest character.

It's true that most Pyra's moves have KO ability, but only a select few actually do so at really low percents unless the opponent is already in a bad position to begin with, due to the duo's moves being higher on base knockback than growth. And it's very hard for Pyra to keep opponents in bad spots without Mythra's speed.

Lots of top players have expressed interest in playing them, but I think it goes beyond just them being very good; swapping aside, they're kind of one of the less "gimmicky" DLC fighters.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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The weight difference... really does not make much of one. It's certainly not enough to compel me to switch to Pyra at high percents for survivability the way Charizard does. Keep in mind things like fall speed and gravity also affect how early you get KOed by some moves, this is why Dedede is the hardest character to KO off the top despite not being the actual heaviest character.
I am fully aware that falling speed and gravity do play a factor in how quickly fighters get KO'd vertically; I've done KO percentage recordings while playtesting my own mods. But in Ultimate, that's only really the case if the fighters were launched upwards by a meteor smash. If the fighters were launched vertically by a hitbox that uses an angle between 70 and 110, then their falling speed would temporarily be set to 1.8, and their gravity gets temporarily changed as well.

That universal mechanic means that Pyra would get KO'd slightly later than Mythra (despite being the slower faller) if they're both launched upwards by the very same hitbox, and have the same amount of damage; their normal falling speed and gravity values won't matter, because of that temporary modification.
 

Teeb147

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I find the weight difference really doesn't make much difference since Mythra is better at avoiding attacks anyway.
 
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