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Twin Christmas Parties 3+4 Mafia {The Matryoshka Scandal.} ~ Over! Who had the merriest Christmas? Who got lumps of coal?

#HBC | Joker

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I think JTBscum is definitely still on the table.

Dunno why people think Circus is clear either. J/Ran flipped Indy, not Mafia. Would definitely be in Circusscum's best interest to lynch IndyJ yesterday, especially if it meant saving himself, which it did.

Still think Kantrip is in J's Indy faction too, but it's kind of a moot point since the mafia already sealed his fate.
 

#HBC | Kary

Fiend of Fire
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그루그 화산
ok. spent so long thinking about this. here's how this goes down. i'm

Shadowy Shadow Skipdiddly-do Mitsuru of Shadows, Shadow Ice-Executioner


toDay i'm kingmaker


i'm tired of this game.

mafia, would you like to win right now? if so please vote swords. this obviously involves trusting me, so ehh.

i think that's everything?
 

#HBC | Dancer

The nicest of the damned.
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
1,390
Location
Orlando, Fl
Kary you tramp, you're forcing me to make a judgement call.

My result said that you're mafia Kary, but you're claiming indy.

If you're telling the truth, then town has lost this game. We need to quick lynch you. I can't risk that you're lying.

Vote: Kary

@Everyone: Executioner cuts the votes required to lynch by half. If Kary is actually executioner, then it will only take three votes to lynch me.
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
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You're gonna believe a floundering condemned scummie over the result you got and try to rush the lynch?

Don't worry so hard, Swords. He's just trapped in a corner and trying to do whatever he can to help his team before his death. Don't make that easier for him.

JTB did you get something as a result? I never really understood how your role works.
 

#HBC | Dancer

The nicest of the damned.
Joined
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Orlando, Fl
Well I'm paranoid as ****.

I'm aware that he's probably mafia just trying to end the Day quickly, but I just don't want to risk it.

Kantrip, you're probably not going to vote him, just yet, are you?
 

#HBC | Dancer

The nicest of the damned.
Joined
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Messages
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Orlando, Fl
I think JTBscum is definitely still on the table.

Dunno why people think Circus is clear either. J/Ran flipped Indy, not Mafia. Would definitely be in Circusscum's best interest to lynch IndyJ yesterday, especially if it meant saving himself, which it did.

Still think Kantrip is in J's Indy faction too, but it's kind of a moot point since the mafia already sealed his fate.
Who thinks Circus is cleared besides me, who has earlier stated that he's a town read?

"Would definitely be in Cricusscum best interest to lynch indy J."

Um, well maybe. But it's also in Circustown best interest to lynch scum in general. Take both sides into consideration.

"Especially if it meant saving himself."

At what point did he need to "save himself?" You have it backwards. He put himself into that bad situation yesturDay so TO lynch J. Not exactly screaming self-preservation here.

I'm willing to bet you $10 that Kantrip is not indy.
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
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Yeah I'm planning to hold onto my vote until everyone has said all they need to say/I need from them.

Considering this is my last phase of life, I kind of want to have the time.

Also my mouse batteries died while trying to post this, so I opened it up and took one of the AA batteries out. Suddenly the mouse started working again with only one battery in place. I don't even understand right now....
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
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Also I'll take $10 from Joker too.

Things are still bugging me about Circus, but his results at least have been proven reliable. Kary and OS are the priorities for me, and Kary being on Overswarm's *** for quite a while is a strong connection to observe, especially considering the possibility that OS started mafia but got recruited by BRB.

Because why would Ryker target me N1? Way more likely that was a mafia shot aimed to not draw connections.
 

Overswarm

is laughing at you
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Messages
21,181
Okay I haven't read anything in depth here so if I'm missing anything let me know.

Also

Everyone unvote

I've been V/LA because my girlfriend's cousin has gone missing and her husband was recently aggressive and violent towards her after divorce was discussed and, after she was declared missing, he tried to call off the search. Cops found a ping of her phone in West Virginia, she lives in southern Ohio. So, stressful. She recently contacted someone (we believe) and may be in hiding from her current husband.

I still don't have time for this game but I'm at work and I can make at least this post.

This isn't a "reads" game anymore. You want to try "reads"?

The christmas present thing has been crap. We've got a grand total of how many scum now? Do they fit into the trees? Not exactly. We don't know how many mafia exist or currently exist.

What we DO know is that:

1) Kantrip was revived by an independent. He's probably going to ****ing be independent. JUST FYI. If you're one of those people that will be an idiot and counter "he was revived by an independent, probably not in town's best interests" with "but he lynched J", go read the day again. He was against the J lynch the entire time until it came down to J being the obvious lynch. Being independent he knew mafia and town together could go on the lynch so he joined on out of inevitability.

So Kantrip needs to go.

BONUS: Kantrip is poisoned. He's gone anyway and can't do ****.

2) Kary was given a mafia result and claimed independent

This is screwy. Either Kantrip's ability is a lie and just sends false information (possible, but why would Kantrip condemn himself in this manner?) or Kary is lying about his role or Sworddancer is lying about what was received or independent is simply given the same value as mafia to his investigation. We don't really know. It doesn't matter.

Kary needs to go, all alignment agree.

BONUS: Kary the independent is the only player in the game that we have a guaranteed number of people to lynch.

3) Sworddancer, Bardull, and PJB have all claimed Ascetic. Hint: There is mafia, at least one, amongst those three.

BONUS: There's a mafia poisoner according to JTB. If there IS a poisoner killed we'd know, and Swords claimed there was on Kantrip. Poisoner can't kill Ascetics.

4) Kary's claimed role is SKIP DIDDLY-DO. Think about that for a second. That is not a real role. -_-;;

5)
JTB said:
Not much has changed since my last moping session. There's 3-4 scum, poisoner is still alive, and someone could possibly change alignments.
i.e., we're still in a recruiting game.

Circus
Overswarm
Sworddancer.
Private-Joker Brown
BarDulL
JTB
Kary
Potassium

8 players. 5 to lynch.

Kary says 3 can lynch.

Let's say Kary is an independent, as this is most likely the most damaging. For the purposes of math, assuming Kantrip is town.

If there are 4 mafia, 3 town, and 1 independent... mafia don't need to lynch town. They could just lynch Kary with impunity and win outright with town helping them. If that's the case, game over unless there's some shenanigans. Kantrip's already poisoned.

If there are 3 mafia, 4 town, and 1 independent, Kary is kingmaker today and decides who wins.

In both situations the best option for town is a No Lynch.

I do not believe in the slightest that Kary is giving up and deciding to give the win to mafia. That smells like a trap to the mafia.

The only reason Kary would do this is to incite mafia to reveal themselves to "alpha" strike, making it down to 3 mafia 3 town and 1 indie with Kantrip. I strongly believe this to be a bad idea for mafia to do. No one "gives up the game" and just says "okay you win" and throws the game; they'd get banned from DGames for doing pulling stunts like that. Even when a scum member gets bussed they don't get upset and say "so and so is mafia, **** this game".

Kary's still got a chance to win and is using this situation for it.

Nightmare scenarios for both town and mafia involve

A) Kantrip being a passive recruiter. Kantrip SPECIFICALLY ASKED Circus to target him last Night. Why? This wouldn't clear him in any way, shape, or form. But he asked it very specifically after believing Circus was mafia the entire time (again, why would he trust Circus to do this as town to help his slot?).

Who DID hit Kantrip?

Sworddancer and the poisoner.

Sworddancer claims Ascetic. He wouldn't be recruited (I believe anyway, to be honest its a mod judgement call and I side with the ascetic modifier).

Meaning the poisoner was recruited and is no longer mafia.

B) Kary is attempting to recruit someone today and be sneaky about it.

"Oh I give up, go ahead and win mafia just lynch swords"? I doubt the authenticity of this. Never trust a silver platter.

If it IS a silver platter? It'll be a silver platter toMorrow.

I believe both of these things are the case.

Today, we lynch no one. Period. This is the best course of action. We eliminate Kantrip, who is likely an independent, and then we have the game in a stronger numerical position and Kary doesn't get to recruit anyone and Kantrip doesn't recruit anyone (else).


For night actions we have two options:

SWORDDANCER - Investigate Bardull or PJB to actually determine if they are ascetic. Don't tell anyone which one you pick beforehand.

Circus - Investigate Sworddancer beforehand to actually determine if he is ascetic.

This will give us one "?" ascetic. I don't recall who has been proven ascetic or not BY A FLIPPED TOWNIE but this should give us the most information assuming no one has been. If one of you has, show me a quote.

or

Sworddancer - investigate myself, JTB, Kary, or Circus. Hope to hit whoever is poisoned. Mafia will not poison mafia but an independent poisoner WILL and in fact that is his best choice of action. Mafia won't KNOW if they are poisoned until after one of them die from their own poisoner. If you manage to catch someone being poisoned and they know that they were poisoned by a recruited mafia member, they will help us eliminate the poisoner.

Both sets of actions have their benefits. I'll leave the choice between the two up to Sworddancer.

Day 7:

Circus
Overswarm
Sworddancer.
Private-Joker Brown
BarDulL
JTB
Kary

7 alive, 4 to lynch.

This day we have to lynch Mafia. If we lynch Kary toDay or toMorrow, mafia win by default unless they have a recruit among them through numbers alone.. I do not believe Kary or Kantrip can actively recruit in a normal fashion. J and BRB couldn't, I don't see why they could either, and as long as we do not play into Kary or Kantrip's hands then we will win because they cannot recruit.

This is the "judgement call" day. There's no ifs and or buts around it. We simply have to have a good old fashioned "kill mafia" day, and it'll happen because if I'm right about Kary then Kary will be super happy about surviving another phase even if Kary can't get the recruit toDay. If I'm wrong, well, town loses the moment Kary and Kantrip die and Kantrip is already gone tonight.

My personal vote is PJB. I doubt this will change by tomorrow. My other option would probably be Bardull, but it is distant to PJB. Of all the ascetics, Swords is the one I trust most assuming Swords is actually ascetic.

(If one of them claims to be ascetic and isn't, instant lynch; it means they're saying "this is why I don't get poisoned).

Let's assume we kill PJB and he's gone.

Circus
Overswarm
Sworddancer.
BarDulL
JTB
Kary

6 people left. If there were 4 mafia left, the game would be over. Assuming PJB is mafia, how many would be left? Well, possible 3 but likely two. If there were 4 mafia they could have alpha struck the moment someone voted for anyone toDay.

3 town, 2 mafia, 1 independent or 2 town 3 mafia 1 independent.

We lynch mafia again. Tough, but not impossible. Again, Kary's gonna be our buddy because that's how Kary survives a phase.

But OS, why leave Kary alive? What if Kary is actually mafia? What if Kary can just normally recruit?

If Kary can normally recruit, we lose. Done, game over, don't even worry about it. It'd mean that someone else in the game is already recruited if not more.

If Kary is actually mafia, claiming independent is not in mafia's best interests. You get no brownie points for being on that lynch and the open statement of "hey mafia let's alpha strike with this cool ability" isn't a guarantee, it's a trap. If it was a guarantee they'd just do it.

Kary is independent.

If mafia kills him, mafia wins.

If town kills him, mafia wins.

If we leave Kary alive, mafia has to kill Kary to win. All we have to do is keep Kary alive until we whittle down mafia's numbers. I know it's tempting to lynch the person who is claiming a non-town faction, but it doesn't help us in any way to eliminate that slot ESPECIALLY ON THE TERMS OF THAT SLOT.

"Never let your enemy choose the battlefield" ~Sun Tzu


I really didn't have time for this.

I haven't proofread so I don't know if I gummed anything up, but DO NOT LYNCH TODAY. I don't have time to keep coming back and holding your hands but DO NOT LYNCH.

Use the day, but do not lynch.

Regardless of the amount of mafia around, 3 or 4, lynching Kary will not help us

After the poison kicks in Kantrip will be long gone. Kantrip will flip independent, of this I am sure.

Afterwards mafia STILL have to have Kary killed before they can win. As long as we lynch mafia from that point until we have a numerical advantage, we win.

Do NOT lynch who Kary tells you to lynch no matter what. Kary is not giving up, Kary is trying to win and to do that Kary has to recruit. The fact that Kary is willing to claim a death sentence for himself means that he has an ace up his sleeve. Do not trigger his trap card.

But here's the deal Kary: We let you live, we get to attempt a lynch at mafia. If we fail, well, town loses and you get your shot at recruiting someone then. If we miss a mafia lynch our best bet is for you to recruit mafia and make a 3 faction game at that point, but I'm hoping we hit mafia. If we succeed, we just have to succeed twice in a row and then town wins.

It's a gamble for you Kary, but we're not playing your game. You'll be lynched by us when town has the numerical advantage over mafia. If mafia have an unsurmountable advantage over us due to us mislynching and the game doesn't immediately end, you can attempt to recruit mafia and town'll help you do it and we get a 3 faction tango going.

That's the deal.

Best chance for town to win, best chance for you to win, worst chance for mafia to win.

Every other path leads to an instant mafia win. So that's my offer. You don't even get a choice as to whether you accept or not though; we choose for you by simply not lynching.


We can do this. Swords, I'm going to have to trust you and you're going to have to trust me. I do not trust Bardull, Circus, PJB, JTB, Kary, or Kantrip. You cannot be poisoned and you cannot be recruited.

If we no lynch today, we can lynch PJB tomorrow, and then we can find scum just ONE MORE TIME the day after and then town should have a win.
 

Overswarm

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Please please please don't be stupid.

There are 8 of us. It takes 5 to lynch.

If there were 5 mafia then the game would be over. Mafia needs town to lynch Kary, town needs mafia.

THE ONLY GROUP THAT CAN LOSE IF KARY IS LYNCHED IS TOWN.

We have not lynched ONE MAFIA MEMBER ALL GAME. NOT ONE.

There are 3, or there are 4. Either way we are one vote away from losing here. If we do not lynch today then Kantrip will die and tomorrow a combination of me, sworddancer, circus, JTB, and Kary can lynch PJB. If PJB is town, well, we lose. If he ISN'T then we will win if we can just do it again.

Unvote from Kary ASAP. Town can still win. Do not give up. Killing Kary does nothing. It helps our numbers IN NO WAY.

IF KARY IS ACTUALLY MAFIA, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR KARY TO BE LYNCHED. ERGO, KARY IS INDEPENDENT.

MAFIA HAS TO KILL KARY TO WIN. TOWN DOES NOT HAVE TO KILL KARY UNTIL AFTER WE KILL MAFIA.

The only way Kary can win is via recruiting. As long as we do not do exactly what Kary says then I doubt this will occur. Kary has no killing ability; we know this or Kary would have used it.

Do the math. Use your head. This is numbers. This is what I do and I'm never wrong in these situations.

Kary didn't claim an independent executioner expecting to live toDay and Kary certainly didn't give up. Either kary EXPECTED to get lynched today or expected mafia to lynch Sworddancer. We will do neither, thus preventing any plans of Kary from coming to fruition.
 

Overswarm

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e;yje;gjawe;gkl

if we No Lynch today the game is golden. There is only one lynch that is actually a question mark and that's two phases away. We HAVE this game. We can manage this situation.
 

BarDulL

Town Vampire
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OS, the assertion that Kary was expecting to get lynched toDay is hogwash. He was forced into this position after 3 people claimed guilties on him...there's no way he could have predicted this to happen.

We lynch confirmed scum and move on. How is this even a question at this point???
 

Overswarm

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OS, the assertion that Kary was expecting to get lynched toDay is hogwash. He was forced into this position after 3 people claimed guilties on him...there's no way he could have predicted this to happen.

We lynch confirmed scum and move on. How is this even a question at this point???
Because the numbers don't add up.

Kantrip's poisoned, right? So he's dead guaranteed?

4 mafia 4 town = game over. We already have a poison. THAT IS GAME.

Ergo, 3 mafia or less.

3 mafia, 4 town, 1 indie
or
3 mafia, 3 town, 2 indie

those are our options for toDay.

Do you notice how none of those groups there add up to 5 on their own? Assuming Kantrip and Kary are of separate factions, there isn't even a single voting block that can join together for a lynch except for town and mafia.

Kary isn't lying when he's saying he's a kingmaker, especially with his execute ability. You still think Kary's mafia with an execute ability? Why would he lie when we can't lynch without more than a single faction has?

It's a trap for mafia. The only reason he'd trap mafia is to get a recruit somehow, likely someone in the mafia. Probably whoever hammers or votes first or something similarly ridiculous.

I repeat:

If Kary was mafia, and he get a million guilty results, his response would be "**** you?"


Given that Kantrip is decidedly indy AND is poisoned, we get to kill two birds with one stone by just No Lynching.

We remove the indy and tomorrow me, JTB, Circus, you, Swords, and Kary can all join together and lynch PJB. It'll only take 4 of us, so if Kary is indy (he is) we'd need only 3 town (which we have to have at this point) with Kary, without we'd need 4 town (which we almost certainly have).

That puts us in a winning position.

If we lynch Kary today ALL WE WILL DO IS GIVE MAFIA A VICTORY. They lose both Kantrip and Kary, the only things preventing this from being an auto-loss for town.

Do the math.

If there's 3 mafia and we lynch Kary and Kantrip dies, there's 6 players left instead of 7. That's 3 on 3. Mafia wins, period.

If there's 4 mafia the game would be over today.

THERE ARE ONLY THREE MAFIA MEMBERS.

IF THERE ARE THREE MAFIA MEMBERS NO LYNCH GIVES TOWN THE POSSIBILTY OF SWINGING A LYNCH.

All you have to do is NOT VOTE.

Unvote for discussion at least so there isn't some sneaky alpha for pete's sake.

NO ONE VOTE. If you vote you are only helping mafia. Do the math it doesn't work out in any other way. There is no mathematical way that Kary is mafia. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada. It is impossible or else the game would already be over.
 

Overswarm

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This reminds me of when J tried some BS Indy Warlock claim in Paper Mario Mafia when he was the last mafioso.
You think Kary's the last mafia member? We haven't had a single mafia member flip. More like you're freaking mafia and you're trying to rush a lynch. Unvote.
 

BarDulL

Town Vampire
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Messages
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Location
Austin, Texas
You think Kary's the last mafia member? We haven't had a single mafia member flip. More like you're freaking mafia and you're trying to rush a lynch. Unvote.
I'm not saying he's the last mafia member, I'm saying that in PM64Mafia, J was trapped by night action results and was going to be lynched for sure. His only out was to try and claim Independent Warlock and force Town to turn their heads.
 

BarDulL

Town Vampire
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OS if 4 other players are really obvious about rushing the kary lynch, then you can shoot one of them. This just seems like a painfully obvious play though and for us to potentially turn our heads away from it is just silly. Besides, you're the friggin "back up vig" aren't you? You can just shoot someone you think is mafia if things get sour.

Again, Sword/Kantrip/Circus need to figure out how to do NAs. Don't target me though 'cause Circus already confirmed that his ability did not work on me. IMHO check PJB/OS obv.
 

Overswarm

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OS if 4 other players are really obvious about rushing the kary lynch, then you can shoot one of them. This just seems like a painfully obvious play though and for us to potentially turn our heads away from it is just silly. Besides, you're the friggin "back up vig" aren't you? You can just shoot someone you think is mafia if things get sour.

Again, Sword/Kantrip/Circus need to figure out how to do NAs. Don't target me though 'cause Circus already confirmed that his ability did not work on me. IMHO check PJB/OS obv.
Did you not pay attention with my claim and the whole "do I shoot or not thing"? I lose my vote if I hit scum.

If I shoot and kill one of them they still win because town can't meet the vote requirement. I'm a hail mary, that's it.

8 today. Lynch Kary. Kantrip dies. 6 tomorrow. 3 town 3 scum. 2 town votes, 3 scum votes. 4 to lynch. No lynch. Me, JTB, or Circus dies because we're the only non-ascetic. 2 town 3 scum. 5 to lynch. /game.

My use is that mafia has to lynch before a 2-man lylo or I'll win.

You need to unvote or town will lose this game.

Bardull said:
Don't target me though 'cause Circus already confirmed that his ability did not work on me. IMHO check PJB/OS obv.
...

Swords, check to see if Bardull is Ascetic.
 

Overswarm

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Here, think short-term Bardull:

If I'm right and scum come in and alpha? We lose.

If I'm wrong and you unvote just to talk some more? You lose nothing.

You are trying to rush a lynch in a precarious situation in a game in which no mafia members have flipped. Do you honestly think that in a phase where mafia cannot lynch without town's help and JTB confirmed independents existed that this is the best course of action?

Use your head. This is math. Do the math yourself, write it out. Town can win and I'll be the first to admit that there's going to be a difficult lynch after the PJB lynch, but there's a reason Kary offered scum the game and they didn't accept it.

Kantrip is indy and will die.
Kary is indy and will NOT die toDay, but later. It is in Kary's best interests to survive as long as possible. That is leverage in our favor.

Yes, this increases the chances of Kary winning simply because Kary will stay alive. But it does so by also increasing Town's cahnces of winning and decreasing mafia's. Mark my words, if you remove both the independents we know of, town won't even get another lynch. The game'll just be done.
 

#HBC | Joker

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I'm all for unvoting for the sake of discussion toDay, but seriously **** leaving Kary alive. I think Bardull could be right about this just being a crazy hail mary play to keep him alive for another day. For all we know, indies could have been recruiting the Mafia all game, and there really just isn't enough of them left to endgame. We can discuss this, and our course of action for toMorrow, but I really think Kary should die toDay. Weren't you the one on D1 talking about how we don't get lynches back?

Speaking of toMorrow, you wanna swing a lynch on me all of a sudden?! Based on what? All game I've been getting fingers pointed at me for various reasons, and I've refuted the ridiculous reasoning every time. Now you're saying I should die without even bothering to explain yourself? No **** that. You think I've been scum this whole time who just has masterful arguing skills to refute all these "cases" against me? Hell no, I refuted those cases because they didn't have a leg to stand on. Just like you don't. Now let's see your case, so I can refute it's inevitable silliness.
 

#HBC | Kary

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ah wait, no, sorry.

i'm probably not the indy in this scenario, am I? That would probably be OS.

If I was indy and he was mafia, this game would be over. two votes on me confirms it.

I'm Shadow Mitsuru, Mafia Traitor Ice-Executioner

Can we please kill someone already? OS is probably the safest shot in case he has a kill, but hell, i'd love to stab Swords in the back right now.

this game should be OVER! :D
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
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I can't be arsed to read Overswarm's bull****. Is it worth it?

mfw he thinks I'm indy who is poisoned and still trying
mfw I don't have a face

mfw is he actually suggesting Kary might not be mafia aligned?

If Overswarm does not shoot who we tell him to shoot toNight, PLEASE make sure he is dead toMorrow.
 

#HBC | Joker

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Not gonna lie, I lol'd pretty hard at Kary's new claim. He literally changed everything OS said was wrong with it in the most obvious fashion possible.

The Traitor thing is interesting though.
 

#HBC | Dancer

The nicest of the damned.
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Kary, tell me now. Why is it that you really wanted OS dead this entire game? Did you really believe him to be indy? (Obviously going to take what you say with a huge grain of salt, but I'm still interested in what you will say.)

Btw Kary, you can vote yourself and end it here if you want. ;)
 

Overswarm

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OS, I can't even begin to understand why you're trying to trust Kary at his word. He is CONFIRMED SCUM. Jesus.
Yes, scum that if we lynch will cause our faction to lose.

I cannot see how you cannot see that unless you are mafia yourself. I showed you the numbers myself. It is impossible for Kary to be mafia or else the game would be over.

Kary has claimed both independent and mafia now and the numbers do not add up to illustrate a Kary mafia. Kary is obviously independent and, as an independent, cannnot win. Kary cannot even get lynched without town and mafia working together. The only people that WANT Kary lynch is MAFIA.

If mafia would win on a Kary lynch, they'd win on a no lynch too. They will not do so. If they didn't want to lynch kary THE LYNCH COULD NOT HAPPEN.

IF THE LYNCH CANNOT HAPPEN WITHOUT TOWN AND MAFIA WORKING TOGETHER THAN, LO AND BEHOLD, MAFIA WIN BY DEFAULT AT THE END OF THE DAY.

The only thing you can do as town is give mafia the numbers to pull a lynch. That is IT.

@PJB whatever. You go toMorrow.
 

BarDulL

Town Vampire
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
5,211
Location
Austin, Texas
3 independent factions? I'll pass. Not to mention that a Kary lynch + Kantrip's death toMorrow means 3 scum, 4 town at worst toMorrow.
 

#HBC | Dancer

The nicest of the damned.
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
1,390
Location
Orlando, Fl
The numbers do line up for a Kary traitor. If there are three mafia + Kary then we already lost. Two mafia + Kary then it just depends if mafia believes Kary or not.

If Kary is indy then . . . idk. I guess if mafia wanted to take a gamble, which I doubt, this game would also be over. Otherwise OS is right about Kary's motivation, I guess.

Kary is not mafia executioner. If he was this game would be over. He would have to be mafia traitor for him to be part of the mafia fraction. Him changing up his claims makes me doubt this some. I'm really hoping that he's just trolling about his claim altogether tbh.
 

BarDulL

Town Vampire
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
5,211
Location
Austin, Texas
My point is, is that if the numbers don't indicate Kary traitor (they don't) then this is extremely simple.

We need to figure out NAs.
 

#HBC | Dancer

The nicest of the damned.
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
1,390
Location
Orlando, Fl
I'm saying that if he was an executioner he could not be part of the main mafia fraction, and that he would have to be a traitor. If he was, then mafia would have ended this Day before anything else even happened.
 
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