Twin Christmas Parties 3+4 Mafia {The Matryoshka Scandal.} ~ Over! Who had the merriest Christmas? Who got lumps of coal?

[#HBC | Nabe]

Votecount 2-1

8/15 to lynch.

Chuckie [

]: Overswarm, Jdietz43, Raziek, PrivateJoker-Brown, Kary
Raziek [

]: soup, Sworddancer.
Overswarm [

]: Chuckie
BRB, Not Posting. [

]: Ranmaru
soup [

]: J


Not voting [

]: Circus, July, BRB, JTB, Red Ryu

------------------------------------------------------------

[collapse=Vote Log] Circus
Overswarm > Chuckie
Ranmaru > Ryker
Sworddancer. > Raziek
July
J > soup
BRB, Not Posting.
PrivateJoker-Brown > Chuckie
Raziek > Chuckie
Chuckie > Overswarm
Jdietz43 > Chuckie
ѕoup > Raziek
JTB
Kary > Chuckie
Red Ryu
[/collapse]

Deadline is November 18th at 19:00 Eastern.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

vote: Chuckie

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

J is town. I'll respond seriously once I move.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Here's what I mean. Soup has been non-commital with certain reads this game and leaving the backdoor of other players. He says that he "wants" to like certain people but doesn't. Yet he doesn't want to lynch them either.

You realize that Day 1 was complete crapshoot considering players didn't have confirmed alignments? I wanted to get out of Day 1 for that complete sake and so people couldn't just excuse themselves with saying that they didn't know. The burden of alignment was too much, for me, to lynch anyone on that phase.

Soup just catches my eye because he is beginning to repeat himself and leave himself with options to go and not explaining things. He even does so with his town reads like his buddying for Swords which makes me wonder:

If I could explain it to you, I would. I don't have anything solid and I'm still trying to get my footing. If I come off non-committal, it's because I don't have a commitment. Chuckie is a certain read and my Raziek vote is garnering for a reaction and not liking his vote on Chuckie so suddenly. He look at OS' wall and effort, and then said "Well, good enough for me!" That's the part I don't like and that is where the Raziek vote becomes more than garnering a reaction.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

This is a really obvious thing to say because of course there would be scum on a wagon...when is there not scum on a wagon on most D1s? Tako/Rajam's lynch was a freebie for scum to just hop on purely because anyone could get on it and not have any blood on their own hands. The people who I want to look at are the people who had hesitancy towards the Tako/Rajam wagon.

I'm talking aloud. That wagon had scum but I don't know where it is and how it formed. Le Bateleur could be counted towards one of that scum but that's more of the border of Indy if anything. What makes this frustrating is what I referenced before in my response, the fact of people not knowing their alignment. It makes Day 1 completely useless and I'm questioning Nabe's reasoning for that. The only thing I can come up with is possibly to give Scum an advantage.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I know OS and alike will hate more for posting in this way, but frankly I don't like writing huge response walls and I like to focus on things individually, just in case of emergency.

He was a campaigner for the No Lynch wagon and kept going back and forth on that to the Tako lynch. In the end, he unvoted Tako near the end of the day and was never seen on the wagon again when he said he would have been back for more later, yet never provided any more insight to his opinion on the Tako wagon. Why was Soup so hesitant on getting his hands dirty with lynching someone on D1? He has said that it is because he felt D1 was a crapshot and honestly, I felt the same when reading through but the thing is, No Lynch was not a pro-town option at all and more of a pro-scum option due to the fact that town's only way to figure out scum is to lynch people (disregarding NAs and the like). Basically Soup's actions regarding the Tako wagon lead as scummy.

Because D1 gave us nothing besides the Theme. Go tell me if Day One was a success. It wasn't. We lynched town. OS is going to talk out of his *** and say information hunting is wonderful and a good thing, but the fact remains that the only information we gained was our alignments. That's all D1 was. This is what pisses me off however. I wanted a NL so I didn't have to deal with a situation like this, I didn't have to guess the intent of a player who could just say "LOL! Didn't know my alignment!" and waste my time responding to you like this. There were about only 6 players who, in that phase, were active. There were some that did have a confirmed alignment and didn't post, and then there were players like Sword. Can you tell me you can find anything worth on that D1? I'm not treating this day like a D2 in a normal mafia game, I'm treating this like a real D1. I don't have conclusions or reads from D1 that are solid. I pray for the Vigilante who had to basically make a guess on who to shoot. Good on him if he got the Indy.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

He doesn't give any reason as to why he thinks OS is a good vote to die nor did he give any doubts really on OS throughout the game that would be noticable enough to bring up.

Gut. Like half of my reads this game. Gut. Do I need to respond to the rest of your wall or have I made myself clear enough? I don't have a case or a solid read on OS, I could ramble for you if you want. I think OS overreacted to me wanting a NL and was trying to be opportunistic on the fact of lynching Tako. Is that good enough?

 

[#HBC | J]

Soup, when you are finished, I need concrete reasoning behind some of your reads.

Raziek one is of the upmost priority, followed by Circus and the other reads you have left up to "gut". I am okay with one or two gut reads but when all of your reads begin to shape up to "gut", you look like you are trying to sweep your reads under the rug for later.

What do you make of RR's vote?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Odd. Especially with stating to need to reread and then just coming back to vote Chuckie.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

J, I have nothing to give you. I don't have concrete reads except on You and Sword. And that's only based on what I've gotten out of this day. Sword coming right out of the gate and not just jumping on the Chuckie wagon I really liked, along with his line of thought. The same category falls into you and you didn't just come in here and pander about useless things rather than getting to the grit of a scum-read on me. These things are telling to me.

Circus making one post against me with a bit of fire and agreeing with the Chuckie vote yet not substantiating anything? Not so much. RR saying he needs to reread and then voting Chuckie? A little bit more. I could talk about Joker and the others but truthfully those things aren't important to me. What is it that you expect of me? This isn't my play of this game, rather of what you expect me to do.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I'm information hunting and I'm asking questions that I believe will help me in the future. I came into D2 going 'Well that didn't help me at all.' Do you have anything of note from D1, perhaps any reads?

 

[#HBC | J]

What other reads do you want to know? I have my scum-reads labeled out clearly and for town reads, all I have is leans.

Also Soup, you seem confident on Raziek. Why are you confident on Raziek and what makes you believe that he must go before Chuckie/OS? What makes him the biggest offender of the bandwagoning? Because if we are being honest, none of the people on the Chuckie wagon are surprising for bandwagoning regardless of alignment. The only one that is slightly surprising is Kary but even then, it's not that surprising of him to be doing as such.

Tell me why Raziek is scummy in your own words that don't just copy Swords'. I want you, yourself, to tell me why people should be looking at Raziek.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

He looked at the OS wall, and didn't bat an eyelash to it. Raziek didn't have (from memory) a true opinion on Chuckie and suddenly he sees the great light that OS has shone down upon him. It was bad and it was scummy, along with previously jumping on Tako. He talked with me about the theme and figuring it out, but it frankly isn't enough. This is why I'm voting him. I want more.

 

[#HBC | J]

Okay....but what makes him different then PBJ, Ditzy, RR, and semi-Kary?

 

[Raziek]

He looked at the OS wall, and didn't bat an eyelash to it. Raziek didn't have (from memory) a true opinion on Chuckie and suddenly he sees the great light that OS has shone down upon him. It was bad and it was scummy, along with previously jumping on Tako. He talked with me about the theme and figuring it out, but it frankly isn't enough. This is why I'm voting him. I want more.

I gave you more. Go read my last post.

 

[#HBC | J]

Aw, Raziek shouldn't have posted that because I wanted his opinion before that.

Anyways, with his latest post in mind, what is your response? Here is what I am trying to get at:

You are being unfair to the others for pushing all the blame onto Raziek. Why?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Okay....but what makes him different then PBJ, Ditzy, RR, and semi-Kary?

PBJ seemed town from D1 but apparently he didn't know his alignment. RR I have expanded on. Kary I think(?) had his alignment.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

J, I answered you. Information hunting. That's it. This isn't about me coming up with a mondo case on Raziek, this is me playing like real D1. I have nothing else to say about this.

 

[Overswarm]

I really like J. Posts are logical, coherent, and follow a mental path we could pick up and follow.

Dislike Red Ryu just joining on with no post. Not because it's a scum tell, but because he does that with any alignment and has for as long as I remember and it's impossible to read. Ryu, you mind contributing a little bit more? I'd prefer it if it's something that hasn't been discussed. Your read on Soup or Kary or someone else that's not Chuckie.

As for Soup.... I'm looking at you tomorrow regardless of Chuckie's flip. Your play is the mafia equivalent of a deer in headlights. More importantly, you haven't said jack about my case on Chuckie and present all your reads as "gut reads".

I have an actual honest-to-God case on a player that goes from one end of the game to the other and picks up every piece possible and they fit, and you think you can come in here and say "case is garbage, silly wall, people stupid for believing in it" and follow it up with a laundry list of "gut" reads?

I don't think so. You don't get to dismiss it so heartily and then condemn others for accepting it without an essay of their own.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Overswarm, you missed the part where I think Chuckie is a good lynch. I was baffled by people just jumping on it without reading it. I actually took the time to do so.

 

[Overswarm]

Overswarm, you missed the part where I think Chuckie is a good lynch. I was baffled by people just jumping on it without reading it. I actually took the time to do so.

Who do you think didn't read it?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I gave you more. Go read my last post.

Okay, so I got the logic. Did D1 mean anything to you? Are you ready to just call this a good day on a Chuckie lynch?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Who do you think didn't read it?

Red Ryu. Kary. Joker. Raziek. Maybe JD but he said he had a synposis of it.

Raziek expanded on it but the point is moot and I don't feel like he really just said "Yeah I read all that I can get ON this."

 

[#HBC | J]

Soup, I feel you are just beginning to dig yourself into a bigger hole with each post regarding the Chuckie wagon. Especially since now you say that Chuckie would be a good lynch but you have been pseudo-whiteknighting them since OS' case came up.

What is your real opinion on Chuckie? Townie or Scummy?

 

[#HBC | J]

I'm information hunting and I'm asking questions that I believe will help me in the future. I came into D2 going 'Well that didn't help me at all.' Do you have anything of note from D1, perhaps any reads?

PBJ seemed town from D1 but apparently he didn't know his alignment. RR I have expanded on. Kary I think(?) had his alignment.

This is also a contradiction. You ask me what I gained from D1 (which I showcased already) because you had nothing from D1, but here you highlight that the reason you aren't looking at PBJ is because of D1 things.

Talk to me about Kary and PBJ.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

What? I wasn't even white-knighting them. It is literally how I said it. I was baffled at the idea OS writes a wall and everyone is suddenly on it. I read said wall and agreed with the logic, I however am not content with ending the day on that which is why I'm asking questions. Where did you get this horrible idea of me white knighting Chuckie? Asking him questions and agreeing with who he is voting is not white knighting.

 

[#HBC | J]

White-knighting may have been the wrong wording.

In your posts, you seem to subtly lean towards liking Chuckie over Overswarm. Is this a correct assumption?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

This is also a contradiction. You ask me what I gained from D1 (which I showcased already) because you had nothing from D1, but here you highlight that the reason you aren't looking at PBJ is because of D1 things.

Talk to me about Kary and PBJ.

Gut

You're wrong. Gut is something but it's not enough. That's why I'm asking questions! I'm honestly a bit annoyed right now.

I don't know about Kary. I liked what he had on D1 but it's Gut. I don't know about PJB. He said he didn't know his alignment but I was leaning town on him from Gut. I don't know what to get out of him voting Chuckie, it didn't tell me anything because he'd do it as either alignment. PJB is not a strong player in that regard (no offense).

I don't like OS for my own reasons. You think OS is town because of this? Laughable. I'm not clearing him in a mile of anything and the only thing I see is something wanting to get a lynch that isn't him. We'll see how this all ends up once it's been said and done, which is why I asked him what he is going to do next after this. Why are you making out OS like a town savior? I'm completely open to the idea of Chuckie being scum, but I'm also open to the idea of Chuckie being town. This is where the questions come into play and I'm not happy with what has been given. I have to consider all options.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I'm fine with being wrong but I'm not fine with going under the assumption of letting something happen without a certain stance on it. Right now I lean on Chuckie being a fine lynch and OS' logic being good. I need to have a safety net if I am wrong however. That's the gist of it.

 

[#HBC | J]

Now you are putting words into my mouth, Soup. I never said anything about having OS as town. If anything, he leans town in the case of who I would lynch of Chuckie/OS, but other than that, I haven't said anything regarding OS.

You are exaggerating what I am doing w.r.t. OS but a long shot.

*live-topic*

So, wait a second, you would rather have Chuckie lynched than OS? That's what I am getting when you say Chuckie is a fine lynch and OS' logic being good. However, you literally just said a couple posts up on this page that OS' wall is silly and people shouldn't just be blatantly following it. Uhm, can you clarify what parts of OS' wall you agree to when talking about his logic. Because up until now, the only opinion we have from you regarding OS' case is that it is silly.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Did you miss the part where I questioned Chuckie on OS' logic and agreed with it..... Did you miss the part where I am concerned of the fact players just took his wall and jumped on this wagon....

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Do I agree with the content? Yes. Do I agree of how the wagon has formed? No, not really. Do I like the reasoning behind the formation? No. I like the content but I disagree what has happened because of it. That wall was completely silly and I was shaking my head at players jumping on it when they didn't give an inch of showing that they actually read it.

Do you understand now????

 

[#HBC | J]

So chuckie was Le Bateleur?

vote: Overswarm

Lettuce kill him!

If it wasn't midnight on a sunday I'd be more elaborative!! good night and good morning in 7 hours!

That's also a good vote.

Explain the Why OS would be a good lynch from your train of thought at the time. This appeared before OS' Chuckie case.

 

[#HBC | J]

Do I agree with the content? Yes. Do I agree of how the wagon has formed? No, not really. Do I like the reasoning behind the formation? No. I like the content but I disagree what has happened because of it. That wall was completely silly and I was shaking my head at players jumping on it when they didn't give an inch of showing that they actually read it.

Do you understand now????

A bit better than I did earlier so thank you for that. Regardless, I still feel your reads are way too fluffy for my tastes. I am still 100% okay with you going toDay.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Because I didn't like OS from gut of D1? ._.

What's so hard to understand about this? Am I speaking in tongues?

 

[#HBC | J]

Soup, you need to explain this gut. This is literally just a circle with you where you are not giving any real answer to my questions. Yes, I get it's gut. What about it makes it gut to you? Show me posts to help me see where your head is at.

You can't just say "D1 gave me nothing, oh well, gut reads for everyone till I get more things.".

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

The fact players didn't know alignment and didn't enough game-related things on D1 to discern a true opinion of them??????????????????????????????? The players who I do have a lead on are players that did do that and I have interest on.

J, I know you're town. You just have the wrong guy.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I'm not doing that by the way. You'll see more from more once people start responding to me. We all know Chuckie is getting lynched so I'm going to do what I need to do regardless.

 

[Overswarm]

You serious, Soup? You really don't think that your play isn't scummy right now?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

N o