TV's and GameCubes

[Strong Badam]

Also, you guys have to remember space isnt unlimited. This is a 9 game tournament, where we need space for other things as well. You guys should just rent a suite, and hold casuals up in there. Best idea ever!

all 400+ of us?
seems legit

 

[_wzrd]

^^sounds like the sickest party ever. instead of project x, we could call it project m.

dudunt chshh

 

[clowsui]

Just a naïve question,

What's wrong with Wii's with component cables + enabling 480p upon the game starts? It has 0 lag, and looks pretty.

2f lag is there

 

[Xilo Pryce]

Or more. My TV lags 3 or 4 frames.

 

[N1c2k3]

I still don't buy that there is no possible way to get rid of delay.

My winning combination: http://www.samsclub.com/sams/39-magnavox-lcd-1080p-hdtv/prod6250118.ip

480p mode + Wii Component cables = NO delay.

Got it for less than $300 and I love this tv. I played next to a CRT and went back and forth and there was absolutely no difference. I've been playing comp. for 10 years and am very sensitive to lag.

*On topic: Although I can't bring the tv, I can bring a cube and/or Wii.

 

[spevak]

On the subject of having only 14 TVs, let's do a little calculation: there is a minimum of 400 competitors, so a minimum of 200 sets in the first round. A low estimate for the average a set takes is 15 minutes, including the time to switch players between sets. This puts the time for the first round at a minimum of 200*15 min / 14 TVs = about 215 min or 3.5 hours. This is probably an underestimate given that people are going to be waiting hours for their first game, and so some people are bound to be in a different room eating / going to the bathroom etc. When their name is called. Then for round 2 no one has been eliminated yet so it's another 3.5 hours bringing the total to 7 hours minimum before the first two rounds are done. After everyone has played two games, we'll be at 100 people in winners, 200 in losers, and 100 out. Then we need anther 100 losers games before it's at 100 in winners, 100 in losers, which will take at least 1.75 hours. If you know what a geometric series is, it gives us an estimate for the amount of time left until top 8: anther 3.5+1.75=5.25 hours, bringing the grand total up to 3.5+3.5+1.75+5.25 = 14 hours of games before top 8. Now, im not exactly sure what the schedule for evo, but 14 hours will probably fit into two days. However, there isn't much wiggle room in there, and remember that this is a low estimate based on our minimum 400 entrants and a conservative 15 min/game. So I'd definitely consider this a close call. It would be significantly safer if we had even 20 setups, which would bring my estimate down to about 10 hours minimum, giving a lot more room for the additional players above 400, longer sets, and any delays we might run into.

 

[smashmachine]

words

maybe you should read up on the tournament format, bracket pools means that people aren't going to be waiting that long in between matches (unless they actually advance from their initial pool)

 

[KrIsP!]

@spevak you're right, 14 hours fits into 2 days nicely but a set does not take 15 minutes (outside of GFs where they've been notoriously long). When there's a huge skill disparity the set will fly by and I'd say 3-4 minutes would be the average for most MUs. Looking at apex videos almost none of the later bracket matches go near 10 minutes for a set (hand warmers included) except for one which was still only 12 minutes while funnily enough most of the apex marvel videos are 8-12 minutes for a set (were best of fives but checking, most only went to game 3).

With 2 days it's no problem tbh. I mean he knows how many tvs he needs for other games and as above said, a pool of people will sit down and play out their matches before leaving the area. Let's just worry about getting tvs, clowsui's google doc shows us as having more than enough, but you never know who's going to flop.

 

[ZeldaFreak0309]

I still don't buy that there is no possible way to get rid of delay.

My winning combination: http://www.samsclub.com/sams/39-magnavox-lcd-1080p-hdtv/prod6250118.ip

480p mode + Wii Component cables = NO delay.

Got it for less than $300 and I love this tv. I played next to a CRT and went back and forth and there was absolutely no difference. I've been playing comp. for 10 years and am very sensitive to lag.

*On topic: Although I can't bring the tv, I can bring a cube and/or Wii.

I've always been curious about those claiming this is a thing. Could we get top players to try this setup (and others people have suggested in the past) and see if this is actually true? Has it been done?

 

[ShiroiKen]

I've also been playing for 10+ years, I am very sensitive to lag. I've shown my setup to pro-players, and there's no sensation of lag.

If you get lag with 480p, I would be inclined to think your TV is not very good.

 

[clowsui]

You should do an actual lag test lol. Don't ask us to count on you and other people's sensations, no matter their skill levels.

 

[ShiroiKen]

You should do an actual lag test lol. Don't ask us to count on you and other people's sensations, no matter their skill levels.

Have you done one? (Curious)

 

[Xilo Pryce]

The TV is often times what matters. My tvs lag to an extend where I needed a crt, but there are some that don't lag at all. Component cables aren't a sure answer, but if you have a certain TV that could be why you haven't noticed.

 

[michael_li]

listen to xxxnoobkingxxx

this man is your grand father of smash. when you see him irl "6"5 white guy" you better bow down. or else he'll tech chase you forever.

 

[Zankoku]

There is definitely lag running 480p signal on anything digital (that is, anything not CRT). Even the official EVO monitors have roughly 1 frame of lag. I don't have an exact test of the 39" Magnavox, but the 32" of the same brand has been measured at 44ms, or 2-3 frames, of input delay with even native HDMI signal. I can't imagine this boding well for upscaling from 480p on a component signal.

 

[Kadano]

Sometimes players report they have found lagless LCDs. Keep in mind that there are big differences between players in the amount of lag they can perceive.
The lowest latency a LCD can have—assuming no image conversion takes place, which is never the case for Melee—is 5 ms. That’s 7000, in words seven thousand, times as much as a CRT (approx. 670 nanoseconds). It is impossible to find LCDs with “no lag” because they simply cannot exist.

Bringing LCDs to Evo will do more harm than good.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

I havent been following this topic, but in another topic I have been talking about getting friendlies with other players in the byoc friendly area. Will we have enough CRTs for tournament and friendly play or should I review my plans to have friendlies?

 

[smashmachine]

any update on how many Melee entrants there are now?

 

[rjgbadger]

i have a CRT that has component, and does not lag i believe.

how do you lag test legitimately?

 

[Zankoku]

split a signal between two TVs, with one of them being guaranteed lagless and the other being the TV you want to test. Start a game with a timer (coin, timed, timed stock, doesn't matter). Take a photo or a video of both screens, then either check the photo or view the video frame by frame to see the difference in the timer.

 

[Bones0]

The best way to test lag is to check to see if your TV is a CRT. If it isn't, it has lag.

 

[N1c2k3]

I havent been following this topic, but in another topic I have been talking about getting friendlies with other players in the byoc friendly area. Will we have enough CRTs for tournament and friendly play or should I review my plans to have friendlies?

Simna, I would love to get some friendlies in with Pichu against your Ness...

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

Simna, I would love to get some friendlies in with Pichu against your Ness...

Well let's see. Okay, yes, your join date is sufficiently early enough for me to play you.




lololol j/k I'll play anyone^____^

 

[strawhats]

Oh **** you're going to EVO Simna? I think mofo will be going as well. Simna/Mofo Ness ditto seriouslies or gtfo.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

Oh **** you're going to EVO Simna? I think mofo will be going as well. Simna/Mofo Ness ditto seriouslies or gtfo.

I'll have you know that I never play seriouslies ever.

lololol


No but really Mofo already told me he isnt going to EVO, but I am looking forward to some Ness dittos with Hungrybox.

 

[N1c2k3]

I remember playing cards with you at OC3. You were pretty serious.

J/K but seriously that'll be cool. I'm only going to just have a good time and play friendlies/see old people again, anyway...

 

[shadrach kabango]

bump .

 

[clowsui]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApdXihfBkgcvdGt3M0g4MGlhRlBvck9uRzloSEtFSmc#gid=0

BUMP 2

 

[thespymachine]

There's TVs sitting in the Rio parking lot in Vegas.
Someone get Mr. Wizard's attention. lol

https://www.facebook.com/groups/317678078333267/permalink/377568629010878

Edit: Things have changed and all these TVs won't have a use at EVO, check my next post in here.

 

[AceDudeyeah]

I feel like an "EVO Tv Fund" is warranted if we're going to get Armada's bro over here so he can come too.

 

[N1c2k3]

Did Joey ever get contacted about those CRT's?

 

[LLDL]

I just sent him a tweet. Im sure someone else had contacted him about it though.

 

[thespymachine]

According to Mr. Wizard, 20 tvs is going to be our limit, due to space: https://twitter.com/EvilMrWizard/status/349327329086029824
And our google doc already has 20 confirmed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApdXihfBkgcvdGt3M0g4MGlhRlBvck9uRzloSEtFSmc#gid=0

So, the only use we'll get out of these is buying some while we're there to host stuff in the hotel rooms - and for Vegas Melee to horde for future events.

 

[KrIsP!]

We need tvs for friendlies. Tournament set ups can't be played on during the tournament. If they're good tvs and cheap you could buy a few but you're not obligated too

 

[hectohertz]

i'll pay for a TV from the rio to have in my hotel room :D

 

[commonyoshi]

Yeah, how much were they asking for? I'd buy one at ditch it at the hotel if it was cheap enough.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

I feel like people are forgetting the byoc room lol

 

[MajorMoses]

So... is 20 tvs going to be enough for 550+? (Betting on 726.)

 

[clowsui]

I don't know how many times I'm gonna need to say this

We haven't reached 28 TVs yet, so we should consider ourselves not at our target

Smashers are flaky as **** and are super anti-clutch when it comes to setups except for VERY rare occasions

 

[MajorMoses]

But it sounds like, even if we brought more TVs, we wouldn't have enough room for it.

I won't pretend to know what the setup for the Melee section of the tournament looks like but I'm kinda surprised that there's absolutely no room to smush TV's together. I would think that they could make it work with a few more.