Trouble against Samus

[Te-Jay]

i've been having loads of trouble facing samus both online and offline. Any good ideas or tips as to help DK out with this match-up?

 

[Jmex]

Super Armor through her Zairs. GG

 

[ook]

Super Armor through her Zairs. GG

That doesn't really work, because she has a pretty big window for when to do the zair during her jump. Too big for super armor to cover.

So she can delay it and stuff when you try to SA... or wait and not do it at all then punish your up-b




I got trouble with samus too... it's a tough matchup for DK. dunno what to do

 

[daisho]

Don't get spiked and youll live to 200. Samus can outspace you with Zair but it doesn't do that much damage. If you bait it then you can rush in.

Samuss only kill moves are D tilt U tilt(when you are in the air) F smash and Bair, also Dair as a spike. None of these moves will even kill so early.

Try not to get into a techchase situation.

Samus isn't an easy matchup but there is a reason she is at the bottom of the tier list, she can't kill.

 

[tocador]

If you can powershield, do it, if you cant, learn it.

Best advice with this mu ><.

O, forgot, cargo throw to u-throw > uair can get her in nasty positions.

GFSC from trip is always good to, early kills ftw.

 

[Donkey Bong]

yeah they nerfed the crap out of all her kill moves. they all suck and wont kill until the mid 100s on most characters, and for DK that probably means you can regularly live past 200 with pro DI

powershielding really will win it for you. PS the zair and punish with a short hop uair

ftilt clanks with the missles and if you're close enough you can hit through them

also, shes really floaty, so try baiting an airdodge with a bair and then punish the ending with an uair.

did i forget anything?

 

[Te-Jay]

sounds good. i'll give those things a try. thanks guys =D

 

[Big O]

Don't forget that she can Zair out of her air dodge at any time. Be careful when trying to punish air dodges. If she is above you it won't matter but when trying to punish them with Bairs it could mess you up.

 

[KoSa!]

Yeah, this is a tough one, just because I don't know what to do. PS the Zair if you can predict and then punish, I guess. Or like OoS UpB it. SA > Missile ??

 

[Silfa]

Punishing Zairs is pretty difficult, I just don't bother with trying to punish unless I'm quite close to them as I usually just get punished myself.

I think the big thing that DK has in this matchup is being able to live for ages. Her kill moves really are quite terrible now, so you should be able to get a stock lead and hold it for awhile if you avoid her dtilt, fsmash, bair and utilt (the uptilt is something i rarely see coming, so I get hit by it more than I would expect, usually when i coming to land and often from a ledgehop). If you just prevent yourself from getting hit by these when (they probably won't kill anywhere below 150), you should be able to rack up some damage while you're ahead.

Powershielding is definitely very useful and ftilt can come in handy to for dealing with missiles. Watch out for being hit by a zair or something after you ftilt though.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

shield the zair and GG*

seriously, there's a long time between when she zairs and when she can zair again since it has to be at the end of the jump

oh, and once your in just play it safe because she doesn't have much to get you out

 

[Stannum]

this should be integrated into the matchup thread since the discussion has already been productive.

 

[daisho]

Chances are you will never fight a samus so you should be fine without the discussion

Nobody would agree on the ratio though... Id say its 55:45 or 60:40 DK.

 

[Circa]

One more thing to be mentioned. It should be pretty obvious, but meh. Never get close enough so that she can up-b OoS. It pretty much won't kill, but it does get annoying (which could lead to bad judgements on your part, thanks to bad mindset).

As for the match-up, I actually think 55:45 DK sounds about right. A Samus who zones correctly will be hard to beat, but her lack of power and our immense amount of power evens out the match-up fairly well, as all we need to do is get an opening and it's GG. Luckily for us, we have a decent-sized area to zone at effectively, and it's not too easy for Samus to get us out of this area once we're in it. Nonetheless, the match-up could still pose quite a bit of a problem. I wouldn't put it any higher than 55:45 DK, tbh.

 

[daisho]

I never saw up B ooS for samus as worth it. It does like 14 damage max and it has such a high risk. If you shield it they are punished with something strong and if they hit good chance it only does like 6%

 

[Circa]

I never saw up B ooS for samus as worth it. It does like 14 damage max and it has such a high risk. If you shield it they are punished with something strong and if they hit good chance it only does like 6%

Ehhh...possibly. Idk. I just remembered reading about up-b OoS when looking through their match-up thread a couple of months ago. They mentioned it right in the match-up against themselves.

Xyro77: UP+B: you dont really know how annoying it is untill you get hit with it over and over again for attacking a samus's shield.

I figured that a lot of DK's moves are kinda laggy, so if you're attacking a Samus close enough so that they'll be able to up-b OoS and hit, you probably won't be able to shield before the up-b connects. Granted...a lot of moves DK has pushes characters backward...so I guess we won't have to worry much about that. Disregard this then.

 

[ook]

Her up-b is also good for juggling/combo'ing DK though (especially if she reads your airdodge, and especially on BF/platform stages)



It IS really ****ing annoying ;_;

 

[Commander_Beef]

I never saw up B ooS for samus as worth it. It does like 14 damage max and it has such a high risk. If you shield it they are punished with something strong and if they hit good chance it only does like 6%

Trust me... the extremely high priority on the move is worth it, and smart Samuses will only do it when they know it will hit you, so they won't get punished if they miss the timing.
For the matchup... you just simply have to play it smart when she's doing of all her long range attacks. Watch carefully with your shield and there should be no problem, seeing as how we can kill her at 60-70% and while she can only kill us near 180-200%.

 

[LanceStern]

I think the big thing that DK has in this matchup is being able to live for ages. If you just prevent yourself from getting hit by these when (they probably won't kill anywhere below 150), you should be able to rack up some damage while you're ahead.

If you DI right yes, if not they can kill DK pretty early. The plasma shot, sweetspot bair and fsmash tilted up kill at around 130% from the center of FD, so any other stage is much smaller and often we won't hit it from the center

 

[itsthebigfoot]

^ that's if you have no DI

seriously, you don't get ko'd for a long time

also, stay around dtilt range cause you can hit her in the air before the zair and you're far enough away to avoid upb. upb is her only decent gtfo move, so if you avoid it, then once you're in you're in for a while

 

[ZxChrono]

i fight ALSTR a lot offline and online along with a few other samus mains.

the most annoying thing in this matchup is the zair which we all know already >.> if done correctly samus can space the crap out of you. its all about mindgames though.

you can sidestep, airdodge, keep yourself elevated over her, PS, there really is no definite gaurantee that you will get in all the time. you eventually will get in (i hope) and in close quarterse is where you put the hurt on her. abuse those jabs and tilts to da max. if you manage to get in on samus and shes at 0% you can get 4 jabs in for 19% before shes able to nair out of it. personally i dont always like to keep samus in dtilt range, ftilt range is good as well, from there you can bait a zair. if you ever see a samus roll you should chase and side B, her roll is so horribly slow so you should capitalize on that. also dont be afraid of those uncharged shots, slap those things please. you can bair through her missles so keep that in mind since most likely missles will be coming at you constantly. keep that punch charged and keep them on the edge knowing you can SA through any of their attacks at anytime.

samus at close range her best counter move to get DK off of her is PS->up b. who cares if the move ends up doing only 6% dmg when its stale, the whole idea is to separate you from her so she can space you. the ones that follow that are her jab, ftilt and dtilt, in that order. she can use her fair while retreating or approaching which serves to be pretty good but it comes out a tad bit slow and she can get hit out of it during the beginning of it. her kill moves usually are bair and fsmash. some samus mains like to keep their dtilt fresh so that can kill at about 180 i believe. sometimes they will throw in a dsmash since it will most likely be fresh, this move is usually done if you make a mistake by landing near them with landing lag. fresh fsmash kills you at 160 from the middle of FD and bair is about the same. usual followup for a bair kill is utilt. a dair while you are on the ground kills you at about 190. also around mid ranged percent to about the early 100's samus has a dash->up b on you. at mid percents she has dair->up b. in the air she can juggle you with fair->uair.

when it comes to stage selection i would avoid going to stages with platforms. on platform stages you can avoid her projectile spam but she can abuse her fair and uair more.

its 5am right now so i dont know if all of this makes sense but its a DK favor you just have to watch out for the zair mindgames really. its a very fun matchup i enjoy playing ALSTR we have some epic matches offline lol.

 

[Ripple]

I lost to tudor at evo 09 first round in losers

I was disapointed and impressed

 

[Ragnar0k]

Tudor is nasty.

 

[Dido]

umm. do faster moves? lol i dont konw.

 

[blakinola]

You should be able to ftilt missle spam methinks--but how helpful that'll be, i'm unsure.

 

[daisho]

You should be able to ftilt missle spam methinks--but how helpful that'll be, i'm unsure.

IDK about that, if they do a full hop they can do two missiles and then you would clank with one and get hit be another.

 

[KillerJawz]

Visit the samus boards, were discussing the DK matchup now, alot of stuff there will help you

 

[PK-ow!]

Trust me... the extremely high priority on the move is worth it, and smart Samuses will only do it when they know it will hit you, so they won't get punished if they miss the timing.

This is a 100% good, has-to-be-repeated point, not questioning that,

but as soon as "Samus' won't use Up-B under [CONDITIONS]" is brought into the picture, then discussion must acknowledge the option of pressuring Samus' shield when [CONDITIONS] don't hold.


$0.02