Tripping (ink dropping)

[Egaseci]

Has anyone tripped while using a controller without an analog stick (such as the wiimote by itself)? I highly doubt the input type matters, but I figured I should ask just in case.

 

[Hitaku]

Like you said, I doubt it will change anything. I will try though.

Edit: I asked a friend who uses the Wii mote and he said he still trips in dash.

 

[Yuna]

We're currently discussing Air Tripping over here:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=3866101

Hitaku, could you test Air Tripping out? Very few people seem to have experienced it (but since I beat all odds, I experienced it it thrice during a window of only 4 hours).

 

[mista_mista]

I just don't see what the purpose of tripping is at all... Why would he put something like this in on purpose? It's not leveling the playing field for casuals and competitive or anything, it just pisses everybody off (maybe not pisses people off, but nobody really enjoys it).

 

[-sonny-]

You never know, maybe one of the Dojo updates in the near future will be all about tripping which will clear up any confusion about it.

 

[Hitaku]

We're currently discussing Air Tripping over here:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=3866101

Hitaku, could you test Air Tripping out? Very few people seem to have experienced it (but since I beat all odds, I experienced it it thrice during a window of only 4 hours).

For anyone that wants to go to this thread for following up on Air Tripping, the link above was a miss type. The correct link is: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=143916

 

[Enshoku]

For anyone that wants to go to this thread for following up on Air Tripping, the link above was a miss type. The correct link is: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=143916

thank you for that, wall clinging is not air tripping, ne?

 

[SqueakyMetal]

(SPOILERS IN MY POST)

ok in the brawl dojo updates luigi has been released along with the information regarding his FS. In the description of being affected by his FS, one of the effects is "increase likelihood of slipping." Is slipping something else, or is it the same as tripping?

Edit: the last sentence also says "While aloft you won’t suddenly sleep, slip, or start taunting."
does that mean u can't trip/slip in the air. I guess that is only if slipping = tripping? is it?


(SPOILERS IN MY POST)

 

[Hitaku]

(SPOILERS IN MY POST)

ok in the brawl dojo updates luigi has been released along with the information regarding his FS. In the description of being affected by his FS, one of the effects is "increase likelihood of slipping." Is slipping something else, or is it the same as tripping?

Edit: the last sentence also says "While aloft you won’t suddenly sleep, slip, or start taunting."
does that mean u can't trip/slip in the air. I guess that is only if slipping = tripping? is it?


(SPOILERS IN MY POST)

This Slipping that the Dojo talks about is indeed Tripping. Judging by the fact that I searched for an Air Trip for around 2 days with no luck and the comment "If your opponent unleashes the Negative Zone, at least try to stay in the air. While aloft you won’t suddenly sleep, slip, or start taunting." from the Dojo, I personally do not believe there is an Air Trip.

Edit: Here is something new kinda...it looks like some attacks cause players to do a trip backwards (aka getting knocked down). Seems to happen at higher percents maybe? I know its not exactly tripping but I thought I would share my find. When testing to see if Lucario's damage changed at 999% I decided to DI him into Fox's neutral A spam. When he reached around 800% he started to sometimes fall on his butt after being hit.

Now I know no one is going to actually get that high, but it could very well be different depending on the attack. Thinking about it, I kinda recall having this happen to me in game. I always just passed it off for either the knock back or me just tripping right after the attack. I will probably get around to testing this a little tomorrow. If anyone already has information about this feel free to let me know. =)

 

[SqueakyMetal]

well at least there isn't randomness in the air so far.(yay, a little more balance.)
anyways... i wonder how much percent tripping goes up in luigi's FS..... i guess that will be more of a character specific thing
hehe if ur gonna test that hitaku, all i can say is good luck. i guess testing things 1000 times in slow-motion and randomly falling asleep would take forever

on that same note, ty very much hitaku for your extensive testing.... it has put so many of my tripping fears to rest..... now that there is a little control over it

 

[CT Chia]

according to my experiences with brawl and talking to others, it seems to be completely random ,and it sucks! it completely messes u up. its perhaps one of the worst new things to brawl

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

By the way, some people have claimed that Lucas's down tilt sometimes trips the opponent...

 

[Hitaku]

anyways... i wonder how much percent tripping goes up in luigi's FS..... i guess that will be more of a character specific thing

It is a very very high percent. If you on the ground and you take more then a few steps, your either going to be asleep, dizzy, or tripping.

on that same note, ty very much hitaku for your extensive testing.... it has put so many of my tripping fears to rest..... now that there is a little control over it

Happy to help.

By the way, some people have claimed that Lucas's down tilt sometimes trips the opponent...

Ok, so...the results were a little more interesting then I thought they would be. When I first did this test I spammed his down tilt on the target.

Test Results (Test preformed with Lucas attacking Sonic – Both players died and restarted after each result):
Trip/Down Tilt
1/13
1/12
1/10
1/13
1/9
1/11
1/12
1/11
1/13
1/12

From this collection of data, if you spam downtilt on your target, you have an 11.6% chance to knock them down. Now I ran some more tests after this and I noticed that even though I thought it was an 11.6% chance I never once got 1-8. I ran a total of 30 tests so it could have been bad luck, but that’s some bad luck. What this tells me is that its not really a percentage, that’s just the number of kicks it takes.

After realizing that I started to wonder if the number of kicks added up over time. At that point I did a test of doing 5 kicks and then pausing for 10 seconds. The results changed quite a bit.

Test Results (Test preformed with Lucas attacking Sonic – Both players died and restarted after each result):
Trip/Down Tilt
1/33
1/24
1/37
1/40
1/34
1/41

As you can see, those numbers were a lot higher. I seems that his trip effect is based on how consistent the spam of the move is.

The final test that I did was testing my theory from last night when I thought it was based in some ways off percent.

Test Results (Test preformed with Lucas attacking Sonic – Both players died and restarted after each result):
Trip/Down Tilt
1/4
1/4
1/5
1/4
1/7
1/4

After seeing the difference in the 100% change I tried 200%. At 200% I couldn’t get more then 2 down tilts off on sonic before it pushed him back so I couldn’t really get him to trip consistently.

In conclusion to this test, it seems that when a move that can trip is spammed, it has a higher rate of tripping someone. It also seems that the higher percent you are the more likely you are to trip from said move (as long as the push back does not apply). Keep in mind that this information at the moment is just for Lucas, however, I believe that it will apply to all characters when using a move that has trip potential.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Thanks for testing that! I guess the idea of his down tilt is to spam it, trip them and then follow up with an Fsmash.

Hmm...what other characters have weak, fast down tilts? Zelda perhaps?

 

[TrueRedemption]

Excellent work Hitaku with the research, and really all who contributed ideas and theories. Knowing tripping only occurs after quickly moving the joystick fully in a direction is a lot of progress from completely random etc when things started.

I do believe that a next step to this may exist though. The 1% number works too well to be disputed for the methods tested. However perhaps tripping is very much in the game to punish imprecise play, for example if the player not only jerks the joystick to the full extent, but also is pressing A and B simultaneously, or other obvious input errors, the % chance of tripping would increase dependent on how clearly the evidence of poor control.

This entire phenomena was considered random because we were all very accustomed to jerking the joystick to dash without any negative effect. Aware of this the game is programmed to keep punishment for this action relatively low at 1%. I'm not really sure that anyone able to hold a controller and play a game would ever accidentally press every button at once, but in this theory that could cause a much greater chance of tripping, and even possibly be a 100% trip command, which then would open up options and ideas. Just a bunch of speculation though, keep up the good work.


-True

 

[Hitaku]

Excellent work Hitaku with the research, and really all who contributed ideas and theories. Knowing tripping only occurs after quickly moving the joystick fully in a direction is a lot of progress from completely random etc when things started.

I do believe that a next step to this may exist though. The 1% number works too well to be disputed for the methods tested. However perhaps tripping is very much in the game to punish imprecise play, for example if the player not only jerks the joystick to the full extent, but also is pressing A and B simultaneously, or other obvious input errors, the % chance of tripping would increase dependent on how clearly the evidence of poor control.

This entire phenomena was considered random because we were all very accustomed to jerking the joystick to dash without any negative effect. Aware of this the game is programmed to keep punishment for this action relatively low at 1%. I'm not really sure that anyone able to hold a controller and play a game would ever accidentally press every button at once, but in this theory that could cause a much greater chance of tripping, and even possibly be a 100% trip command, which then would open up options and ideas. Just a bunch of speculation though, keep up the good work.


-True

I have tested this theory before, and the tripping seems to be at 1% despite any other conditions (of course that doesn't apply to Luigi's Final Smash).

Edit: When I made this post I thought about how I used the word conditions... I realized that back when I was testing different forms of terrain I didn't test it on the ice. Seeing as the Dojo called tripping "slipping" I thought there may be something worth testing.

When I tested this I discovered that the trip rate was indeed higher.

Test Results (done with Sonic on ice surface):
Trip/Dash
1/2
1/14
1/49
1/70
1/25
1/37
1/61
1/54
1/42
1/15
1/2
1/84
1/17
1/28
1/43
1/38
1/3
1/49
1/17
1/23
1/22
1/5
1/27
1/39
1/85
1/55
1/37
1/29
1/39
1/31

As you can see, the chance to trip on ice is much higher. According to this data you have a 3.3 percent chance to trip on ice. Being that this is a small collection, I'm going to be rounding it to 3%.

 

[Popuri]

the more I read about Brawl the more I feel like not playing it... whats going on? I think Tripping might be a marketing scheme.

Brawl will sell lots of copies so Nintendo will make lots of money. Keeping servers running for many years for a 'free to play online game' costs them money so perhaps tripping really is random and is in to make people stop playing after a while, to give the game a controlled lifespan.

If someone makes a perfect game, one that people will play for the rest of their life and not even look at other games because of it, it will have to be subscription fee based, otherwise it is a silly loss of a customer. or thats what I think anyway...

I dont like tripping u_u)p

can any of you program? i mean really well, maybe someone some day can hack melee so well that they will make it online, I think melee might in the end still prove to be more fun but I am not saying that it will for certain* since I still haven't played Brawl

 

[superorange]

Yeah, I'm sure tripping will cause SO many people to quit playing. :/

 

[Popuri]

if it is DEFINATLY random then

Melee 1

Brawl 0

lets see what else pops up... il try keeping a score

I could mention speed of course thats my favorite part of melee u_u

melee 2

Brawl 0

bleh

 

[Problem2]

OK, seriously... why is there a random possibility of tripping for no reason? Random factors are the vain of all that is competitive, and so Sakurai decided that the team should do more work to stupify the almost perfect game?

That's so ****ing stupid. Sakurai basically shot himself in the foot on this one. pisses me off... ****it mother ****er.. what an *******.

 

[Popuri]

so... if we eventually discover that Tripping is indeed Random, will we ban the 'taking advantage of your tripped opponent'?

could balance it back out again? idk... I'm just a n00b ._.

 

[Popuri]

ok here's a better idea, in tournaments, if a trip occours and it really costs someone the whole game i mean REALLY obviously makes them lose then the players must rematch.

 

[Smashless]

it seems to me as if he is forcing the game to go vertically, since you'll want to avoid the chances of tripping by jumping more often.

 

[Senshuu]

1-3% chance of tripping, baaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwww.

 

[Popuri]

it seems to me as if he is forcing the game to go vertically, since you'll want to avoid the chances of tripping by jumping more often.

but it can happen in mid air too -_-

 

[leafgreen386]

@popuri: Here's the problem with your ideas... Where do you draw the line? "Taking advantage?" What if the person was dashing into their doom regardless, and the person had already thought of a response for what their opponent was going to do? And then winning the match because of it... it's the same thing but worse. Any number of things can influence the way a match goes, and it can be hard to say that it was the sole cause for why "x" player won instead of "y" player. For all we know, "x" player was going to win it anyway, and now we're forcing a replay? The line is just too fuzzy to realistically make the distinction. And no, it does not happen in the air. That appears to be something different, and judging by the reports I've read... I think it has something to do with peach's float? IDK.

And for the record, I'm not defending tripping in any way. I think it's probably the worst game design choice made for any smash game so far. But what I am saying is that there really is no way to really regulate it. It's just going to have to become something we all deal with, sadly.

 

[leafgreen386]

edit: freaking forum glitching. mod delete please.

 

[goldemblem]

Tripping its just another part of the game, just learn to live with it, i am sure that in the near future we will be able to discover the exact rate and maybe be able to manipulate it a little to help in the battles, at the very least we could find a way to avoid tripping, all of this new techniques and "mistakes" in brawl just make the game more interesting and more difficult to master, i really can not wait to have this game

 

[Popuri]

i guess your right, we'l have to deal with it.

I use to play Phantasy Star Online, then Phantasy star Universe came out and we where all expecting wonderful things because PSO was so incredibly good, sadly it flopped the gameplay was totally destroyed, some players chose to 'deal with it', I quitt, but hey thats just me.

PSO>PSU

I dont know what I'm complaining about, at the end of the day I will still have all smash brothers games to chose from, the release of Brawl does not mean the END of Melee

 

[leafgreen386]

edit: accidental repost. mod delete please

 

[Popuri]

@leafgreen386

alright already q:

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Tripping=probably most random thing in Brawl...

 

[Hitaku]

but it can happen in mid air too -_-

As Leafgreen386 stated before, as far as we know now tripping in the Air does not exist.

1-3% chance of tripping, baaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwww.

1% chance on normal ground and 3% chance on the ice. Just wanted to clarify.

As for all of you complaining about it, remember that while it sucks...you don't only need to be in the air to avoid it. You can run (not dash) towards the enemy if there is no reason for a dash. Again I know its kinda lame but there are options. Players will find a way to work around it, this will in no way break Brawl. =P

Edit: Could anyone that went to the LA tournament tell me if tripping seemed as random as it does in the Japanese version? I doubt they did anything to change it, just wondering though.

 

[TheZizz]

Could anyone that went to the LA tournament tell me if tripping seemed as random as it does in the Japanese version? I doubt they did anything to change it, just wondering though.

Good and bad players alike were tripping here and there. I saw no pattern or consistency.

 

[SqueakyMetal]

i doubt that the US version will be any different, but when it comes out, i'll do my best to test it extensively like hitaku. Although, it looks like im still going to have to w8 like 20days 4hours and 20mins.

 

[Hitaku]

I watched a few videos from the LA event as well as had a few people pass on information. Sadly it doesn't look like there is any difference between US and Japanese release when it comes to tripping. =/

Again, not that I thought there would be, just would have been nice. =(

 

[Popuri]

as far as we know now tripping in the Air does not exist

really? weird I could have sworn I read that you could and I thought I saw it in a youtube video too, maybe they just tripped as they landed or something.

I guess thats not as annoying then

 

[Misto-Roboto]

That's the first question you need to answer before you even have a right to post this. Smash Boards is a forum where competitive players gather to share ideas.

I hope you don't honestly believe this is where Smash Boards began. The competitive community rose as a result of a collective casual community, of which Gideon started with the PD64 boards. Please do not be so arrogant to assume these boards were intended for the competitive.

EDIT: To avoid any flaming, I'm not saying the competitive scene sucks or that competitive play isn't great, I just don't think that some in the competitive community get that this site evolved to include the competitive community.

 

[Qinopio]

I've noticed an even higher chance of tripping when hitting people with Ness's down-A. I think each move has its own associated trip chance. Sweeps confirmed for Brawl.

Also, it seems to me that there's more than just ice that causes slips. The edges of the road in Mario Circuit cause trips pretty frequently.

 

[Luigi player]

As for all of you complaining about it, remember that while it sucks...you don't only need to be in the air to avoid it. You can run (not dash) towards the enemy if there is no reason for a dash. Again I know its kinda lame but there are options. Players will find a way to work around it, this will in no way break Brawl. =P

Well, but this would be really annoying, no? If I want to run to my enemy and suddenly grab him... what then? I don't want to walk slowly to him so he knows what I'm planning or something >_>

Tripping is REALLY annoying. They should've never made it, or at least not random.

It will be really stupid to always have to worry that you maybe trip in a tournament. If the enemy has more luck he wins, and we want to put the luck out of it. Sakurai pissed us in the face. I really hate this. It will be annoying even if I just want to train and don't play in a serious match. It isn't funny, it just annoys the **** out of everyone.