Tower of Smash Discussion

[Kevandre]

I agree with your points on Mewtwo somewhat. Ridley, however I believe would have been shown by now if there isn't something more to his role. I can't see why Sakurai would purposely bring up Ridley by strong implication without giving us any solid information or details on what he does whatsoever. Another thing that seems downright strange to me is the lack of DK content. We've so far seen no new stage for the series, and as far as we know, no newcomers. No new items. No new assist trophies. Nothing. Even after two very successful games as a reboot for the franchise. One thing that seems the most suspicious to me is about alternate costumes. If Olimar has Alph, Marth was meant to have Lucina, Bowser Jr. has the Koopalings, then why doesn't Diddy get at least a Dixie alt? This is seems strange to me and leads me to believe that we'll most likely get her, Mewtwo, and Ridley in the Wii U version as arguably the most hypeworthy and somewhat controversial characters.

I tend to be with you on this. I think he's trolled Ridley too much at this point. If he were to be fully deconfirmed I'd think he'd have just done it in the April Direct.

I don't want Dixie to be a Diddy alt though. The other characters make a lot of sense, but Dixie's got so much potential to be totally original that I'd hate to see her wasted that way. Or as a clone. We don't need another Falcondorf situation.

 

[RoseyBetch]

I tend to be with you on this. I think he's trolled Ridley too much at this point. If he were to be fully deconfirmed I'd think he'd have just done it in the April Direct.

I don't want Dixie to be a Diddy alt though. The other characters make a lot of sense, but Dixie's got so much potential to be totally original that I'd hate to see her wasted that way. Or as a clone. We don't need another Falcondorf situation.

My point wasn't that I wanted her to be an alt. I was thinking that even though Alph could have used Rock Pikmin and had some extra smash attacks to make him unique, he was an alt. Dark Pit could have been totally different from Pit, but he was planned as an alt. Lucina and the Koopalings aren't the same characters as the ones they are (or were intended to be) alts for, so following this logic, if Dixie wasn't planned to be a unique and separate character, then Dixie Kong would be an alternate costume as well at the very least so that there would be something new for the DK franchise. However, she's not an alternate costume leading me to believe she'll end up being playable as a transferable character along with Ridley and Mewtwo.

 

[Xandercage]

I am cautiously optimistic on this leak. I really would like it to be true. The only thing that I would want extra is the Ice Climbers to be part of the character addins. I am really holding onto hope that they somehow make their appearance again. I know it's unlikely with the 3DS' capabilities, but I guy can hope right? I think TOS would be a great mode addition and I hope that is true as well.

In regards to the posts above about Dixie not being an alt costume when she clearly could have been, I agree that the evidence points to her own unique roster spot. In my opinion it would have been an easy solution to give her 4 alt costumes to Diddy, like Alph is to Olimar, but she isn't. I would enjoy a fresh DK newcomer. That would be great. Don't really have an opinion either way for Ridley or Mewtwo. I was never a big fan of Mewtwo in Melee and Ridley doesn't really interest me. I just want Ice Climbers back.

 

[zferolie]

I agree with your points on Mewtwo somewhat. Ridley, however I believe would have been shown by now if there isn't something more to his role. I can't see why Sakurai would purposely bring up Ridley by strong implication without giving us any solid information or details on what he does whatsoever. Another thing that seems downright strange to me is the lack of DK content. We've so far seen no new stage for the series, and as far as we know, no newcomers. No new items. No new assist trophies. Nothing. Even after two very successful games as a reboot for the franchise. One thing that seems the most suspicious to me is about alternate costumes. If Olimar has Alph, Marth was meant to have Lucina, Bowser Jr. has the Koopalings, then why doesn't Diddy get at least a Dixie alt? This is seems strange to me and leads me to believe that we'll most likely get her, Mewtwo, and Ridley in the Wii U version as arguably the most hypeworthy and somewhat controversial characters.

Well Peach didn't have a Daisy Alt either, which I found VERY strange. Just just has a Daisy Color, like how Diddy has a Dixie color.

But you do bring up a good point that DK has NOTHING new in the game so far. Very strange to do that.

As for Ridley not being shown as a Boss yet. It could be hype/tease for him playable, it could be a troll move by sakurai, it could be they are saving him and the other bosses for tower of smash. We have only seen ONE boss so far, I assume there will be more then 3 (Yellow, Ridley/Metal Ridley, Metalface.)

 

[KenboCalrissian]

Here's the best analysis I can find of the "Greninja's silhouette was Mewtwo" theory. Everything but the last three panels are pretty relevant (though the payoff is hilarious).

Caution: Super tall image.

Spoiler

Consider me #TeamRealist - I want this to be real, but I've recognized from my first post in this thread that I have a serious Mewtwo bias, and I'm trying very hard to filter that out. With the teases we've already had however, I find it difficult to accept Mewtwo isn't in this game in some form.

There's a chance he's a boss character... I wouldn't be happy, but it's possible. Maybe they're giving all the bosses the "shadow treatment," and since a silhouette is pretty much the same thing, that could be the answer for Mewtwo. To think though that after all this he has absolutely zero representation outside of a 3DS trophy, though... somehow, I find that harder to believe than this leak being true.

 

[LordCQ]

Well... I found something interesting, has anyone noticed that on the website the secret characters do not appear on the bottom squares? This means we still have six characters we don't know nothing about!

 

[zferolie]

Well... I found something interesting, has anyone noticed that on the website the secret characters do not appear on the bottom squares? This means we still have six characters we don't know nothing about!

Its possible those are going to be for Wii U hype character... but 6? I can maybe see 5 for the rumor, and maybe 1 slot to lead to future DLC characters(like how the ??? goes to the unlockable ones)?

 

[Aeon Lupin]

Well... I found something interesting, has anyone noticed that on the website the secret characters do not appear on the bottom squares? This means we still have six characters we don't know nothing about!

It depends, were those 6 slots still there prior to Dr Mario and Dark Pit's reveal, or were there more? Because as it stands right now, there are still 6 secret characters to be unlocked, which can easily be representative of them.

 

[tomvoxx]

Well... I found something interesting, has anyone noticed that on the website the secret characters do not appear on the bottom squares? This means we still have six characters we don't know nothing about!

On the mobile site there is only 1 of those gray squares.

 

[LordVacation]

Well... I found something interesting, has anyone noticed that on the website the secret characters do not appear on the bottom squares? This means we still have six characters we don't know nothing about!

1. ROB
2. G&W
3. Duck Hunt
4. Ganondorf
5. Bowser Jr.
6. Jiggs

 

[KenboCalrissian]

Well... I found something interesting, has anyone noticed that on the website the secret characters do not appear on the bottom squares? This means we still have six characters we don't know nothing about!

It's been screenshotted and talked about before. I think somebody said the site always had six open spaces, like they're "just in case" placeholders for the site, but that hasn't been verified. On the other hand, we do have six incoming characters if you're willing to accept both the ToS and the Ridley + Bandana Dee trailers leak (I don't, personally...), and it would be possible to add up to 10 more characters by shrinking the CSS icons to allow a 10th column and a 6th row.

I think it's more likely they're for the 6 characters not already on the site, if they mean anything at all.

 

[LordCQ]

1. ROB
2. G&W
3. Duck Hunt
4. Ganondorf
5. Bowser Jr.
6. Jiggs

Well yes... But assuming the layout stays the same, hidden characters don't get their own square there, you can only see them inside the Hidden Characters square.

 

[Hayzie]

1. ROB
2. G&W
3. Duck Hunt
4. Ganondorf
5. Bowser Jr.
6. Jiggs

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Those squares doesn't really mean something. They always been there, and I remember, when characters were announced, people saying things like "there's only five squares after Rosalina, there will be 5 characters".

 

[TheAnvil]

I agree with your points on Mewtwo somewhat. Ridley, however I believe would have been shown by now if there isn't something more to his role. I can't see why Sakurai would purposely bring up Ridley by strong implication without giving us any solid information or details on what he does whatsoever. Another thing that seems downright strange to me is the lack of DK content. We've so far seen no new stage for the series, and as far as we know, no newcomers. No new items. No new assist trophies. Nothing. Even after two very successful games as a reboot for the franchise. One thing that seems the most suspicious to me is about alternate costumes. If Olimar has Alph, Marth was meant to have Lucina, Bowser Jr. has the Koopalings, then why doesn't Diddy get at least a Dixie alt? This is seems strange to me and leads me to believe that we'll most likely get her, Mewtwo, and Ridley in the Wii U version as arguably the most hypeworthy and somewhat controversial characters.

Dixie literally cannot be a Diddy alt. It wouldn't be remotely possible. Diddy has attacks that use his tail, and Dixie doesn't have one.

That's not even taking into account that she has more potential than any other character to be unique. And anyone who says otherwise has no idea what they're talking about.

 

[Naoshi]

Bowser Jr's Koopalings alt only worked because you're actually controlling a vehicle, rather than the character themselves. If not for the vehicle, the Koopalings alt would've been impossible since they all have their own physique, which is something that doesn't matter once you're in the koopa clown car. Alph only works well as an Olimar Alt because they both do literally the same thing with no differences and they both have enough similar physique to make it work without making anything feel off.

As TheAnvil said, Dixie cannot be Diddy's alt because it is very impossible. Even the tail aside, Dixie would be lacking her hair whip attack, her signature attack, if she were to be an alt of Diddy. It would not do her character any justice.

 

[Hayzie]

Diddy literally cannot be a Dixie alt. It wouldn't be remotely possible. Dixie has attacks that uses her hair, and Diddy doesn't have one.

That's not even taking into account that she has more potential than any other character to be unique. And anyone who says otherwise has no idea what they're talking about.

That sorta talk is Rare around here My buddy.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

I've found something quite interesting in today POTD

Look in the top right corner, there's a ness trophy. Since ness is a secret character it makes no sense to have that there considering you could put basically any other fighter in his place

Maybe every character is a starter like this leak suggests

 

[TheAnvil]

Bowser Jr's Koopalings alt only worked because you're actually controlling a vehicle, rather than the character themselves. If not for the vehicle, the Koopalings alt would've been impossible since they all have their own physique, which is something that doesn't matter once you're in the koopa clown car. Alph only works well as an Olimar Alt because they both do literally the same thing with no differences and they both have enough similar physique to make it work without making anything feel off.

As TheAnvil said, Dixie cannot be Diddy's alt because it is very impossible. Even the tail aside, Dixie would be lacking her hair whip attack, her signature attack, if she were to be an alt of Diddy. It would not do her character any justice.

Agreed, but I still think Alph should have been a clone. Rock Pikmin alone would have been enough to differentiate him.

 

[zferolie]

Bowser Jr's Koopalings alt only worked because you're actually controlling a vehicle, rather than the character themselves. If not for the vehicle, the Koopalings alt would've been impossible since they all have their own physique, which is something that doesn't matter once you're in the koopa clown car. Alph only works well as an Olimar Alt because they both do literally the same thing with no differences and they both have enough similar physique to make it work without making anything feel off.

As TheAnvil said, Dixie cannot be Diddy's alt because it is very impossible. Even the tail aside, Dixie would be lacking her hair whip attack, her signature attack, if she were to be an alt of Diddy. It would not do her character any justice.

I still don't get why they didn't give us a Daisy alt... They already gave Peach a Daisy Color. Wouldn't have been nice to play as Daisy, since making her her own character would only work if they made her very sports focused(and maybe toss in some kart and party rep) But I digress.

I've found something quite interesting in today POTD

Look in the top right corner, there's a ness trophy. Since ness is a secret character it makes no sense to have that there considering you could put basically any other fighter in his place

Maybe every character is a starter like this leak suggests

that is an interesting catch there. It is possible that everyone starts unlocked(though that seems to go against how Sakurai does his games but you never know) or maybe that file has ness Unlocked already and it randomly puts the trophies of the characters you unlocked there.

 

[Naoshi]

It should be noted that Ness and Marth were in Brawl's opening cinematic and they weren't afraid to hide that.

Regardless, I do think there's a chance all the 3DS unlockables are starters on Wii U, considering Wii U comes out nearly 2-3 months after the 3DS version.

I still don't get why they didn't give us a Daisy alt... They already gave Peach a Daisy Color. Wouldn't have been nice to play as Daisy, since making her her own character would only work if they made her very sports focused(and maybe toss in some kart and party rep) But I digress.

I'm guessing it had way more to do with Peach having very Peach-specific moves. Like the turnips, the SMB2 float, etc etc. Stuff Daisy would never have. I think Sakurai kind of wants to portray the characters without being too inaccurate. Ganondorf being an exception since Melee was... kind of a different time. Sakurai probably feels more strict on accuracy nowadays.

(I'd seriously wager the only reason why Ganondorf is still a clone because he wants to preserve the moveset. Had he been included as a newcomer nowadays, he'd been much different)

Although this is just speculation from me. IMO, Daisy is much better off as her own character than an alt.

 

[RoseyBetch]

Dixie literally cannot be a Diddy alt. It wouldn't be remotely possible. Diddy has attacks that use his tail, and Dixie doesn't have one.

That's not even taking into account that she has more potential than any other character to be unique. And anyone who says otherwise has no idea what they're talking about.

Alright. That makes sense. What doesn't make sense still from my original post is that we've no new content from the DK franchise thus far. With Metroid, we at least got new assist trophies and the Pyrosphere, but we don't have anything for Donkey Kong. Don't even get me started on how StarFox has even less in this game.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Alright. That makes sense. What doesn't make sense still from my original post is that we've no new content from the DK franchise thus far. With Metroid, we at least got new assist trophies and the Pyrosphere, but we don't have anything for Donkey Kong. Don't even get me started on how StarFox has even less in this game.

Seriously all they have is fox, falco, orbital gate. the old corneria, andross and possibly lylat cruise. That's it. I'm praying from year of star fox dlc. Wolf, Krystal, a new star fox stage, some new assists anyone?

 

[Dyguren]

Alright. That makes sense. What doesn't make sense still from my original post is that we've no new content from the DK franchise thus far. With Metroid, we at least got new assist trophies and the Pyrosphere, but we don't have anything for Donkey Kong. Don't even get me started on how StarFox has even less in this game.

If we talk only about characters, Metroid actually has less characters if you think about it, Samus and ZSS is the same damn character but with different movesets and appearece, but it's the same character storywise, while DK at least has 2 totally different characters from their story. But yeah, both DK and Metroid are in critical situation of having reps from their games. The answer is right in front of sakurai, the demand for those characters is in front of his eyes as well, he just has to accept it, which probably he did, who knows, we don't know yet what's gonna happen....that's the sad part lol

 

[TheAnvil]

Alright. That makes sense. What doesn't make sense still from my original post is that we've no new content from the DK franchise thus far. With Metroid, we at least got new assist trophies and the Pyrosphere, but we don't have anything for Donkey Kong. Don't even get me started on how StarFox has even less in this game.

I agree with this. Star Fox and DK are both my personal favorite series in Smash Bros. And I hate the lack of attention that they have received.

IMO, not only should Wolf have returned, but Leon should have been a newcomer. There is an awesome moveset potential for him.

 

[zferolie]

It should be noted that Ness and Marth were in Brawl's opening cinematic and they weren't afraid to hide that.

Regardless, I do think there's a chance all the 3DS unlockables are starters on Wii U, considering Wii U comes out nearly 2-3 months after the 3DS version.


I'm guessing it had way more to do with Peach having very Peach-specific moves. Like the turnips, the SMB2 float, etc etc. Stuff Daisy would never have. I think Sakurai kind of wants to portray the characters without being too inaccurate. Ganondorf being an exception since Melee was... kind of a different time. Sakurai probably feels more strict on accuracy nowadays.

(I'd seriously wager the only reason why Ganondorf is still a clone because he wants to preserve the moveset. Had he been included as a newcomer nowadays, he'd been much different)

Although this is just speculation from me. IMO, Daisy is much better off as her own character than an alt.

Oh I agree Daisy would be better off as her own character, but it would be nice to see her in somehow, and wouldn't mind her being a Peach Alt. She would be best probably very sports like. Think Wii Fit Trainer but more rough and sporty.

I think Ganondorf's current moveset WORKS in showing him being a battle mage then a normal mage. Ganondorf has always been more in your face and also uses magic. I personally think they can change up a few of his moves though. Make his A's have more burst to them, Make Down B That ground slam move he has had in a few games(Hyrule warriors shows it the best) and change Up B slightly. Regular B and Side B are very fitting for him. Also, maybe have a feature that charging his smash moves stores power that buffs his B moves, or doing Side b makes his other moves more powerful, or you can charge down B to give an might explosion. You could also make his B is normal smash (in terms of look) and then give him the tennish energy ball as a normal B.

And if Sakurai really wants to keep Ganondorf's current set, just bring in Black Bull as a CLone of Falcon that uses current ganondorf set.

Seriously all they have is fox, falco, orbital gate. the old corneria, andross and possibly lylat cruise. That's it. I'm praying from year of star fox dlc. Wolf, Krystal, a new star fox stage, some new assists anyone?

I am sad to see Wolf go. He was the most unique of the 3 characters, and was my favorite to play as. Plus he was a perfect villain for the series. I hope he comes back as DLC, and maybe add kyrstal too. She can use the staff from star fox adventures to have a VERY unique moveset. Plus another female

 

[Aeon Lupin]

I agree with this. Star Fox and DK are both my personal favorite series in Smash Bros. And I hate the lack of attention that they have received.

IMO, not only should Wolf have returned, but Leon should have been a newcomer. There is an awesome moveset potential for him.

What moveset? Leon doesn't actually fight as himself. If anything, its entirely possible he'd just be a modified version of the typical Star Fox character in Smash. The only character who is wholefully justified in being a new Star Fox character is Krystal, as she can work with using the staff, which is not only unique for a Star Fox character, but Smash in general at the moment.

 

[Naoshi]

Oh I agree Daisy would be better off as her own character, but it would be nice to see her in somehow, and wouldn't mind her being a Peach Alt. She would be best probably very sports like. Think Wii Fit Trainer but more rough and sporty.

I think Ganondorf's current moveset WORKS in showing him being a battle mage then a normal mage. Ganondorf has always been more in your face and also uses magic. I personally think they can change up a few of his moves though. Make his A's have more burst to them, Make Down B That ground slam move he has had in a few games(Hyrule warriors shows it the best) and change Up B slightly. Regular B and Side B are very fitting for him. Also, maybe have a feature that charging his smash moves stores power that buffs his B moves, or doing Side b makes his other moves more powerful, or you can charge down B to give an might explosion. You could also make his B is normal smash (in terms of look) and then give him the tennish energy ball as a normal B.

And if Sakurai really wants to keep Ganondorf's current set, just bring in Black Bull as a CLone of Falcon that uses current ganondorf set.

Infact, I do agree that his moveset does suit Ganondorf. Despite the origins of the moveset, it really looks natural on his character. I actually kind of prefer him using his fists rather than his sword. Would be nice to see him getting a new moveset that is based off the similar concept, or Luigify his moveset.

 

[zferolie]

Infact, I do agree that his moveset does suit Ganondorf. Despite the origins of the moveset, it really looks natural on his character. I actually kind of prefer him using his fists rather than his sword. Would be nice to see him getting a new moveset that is based off the similar concept, or Luigify his moveset.

Yeah I never wanted him to use a sword. I just liked to have him use a bit more magic. Hyrule warriors gave him a sword, but it's the dark magic he does that I love the most, That ground slam would be perfect as a replacement Down B for him.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

What moveset? Leon doesn't actually fight as himself. If anything, its entirely possible he'd just be a modified version of the typical Star Fox character in Smash. The only character who is wholefully justified in being a new Star Fox character is Krystal, as she can work with using the staff, which is not only unique for a Star Fox character, but Smash in general at the moment.

I would really like Krystal with her staff, but two things I remember from the staff in Adventures is shooting projectiles and a Shield, and that sound really "Starfox character", smash wise.

 

[Aeon Lupin]

Infact, I do agree that his moveset does suit Ganondorf. Despite the origins of the moveset, it really looks natural on his character. I actually kind of prefer him using his fists rather than his sword. Would be nice to see him getting a new moveset that is based off the similar concept, or Luigify his moveset.

Didn't they kinda already did that? I mean, back in Melee, he was a straight clone, but the transition to Brawl, Sakurai changed his neutral A, and the animations from his attacks, even made him significantly slower. I say he's already been Luigified, bbut I think people want a complete overhaul.

I would really like Krystal with her staff, but two things I remember from the staff in Adventures is shooting projectiles and a Shield, and that sound really "Starfox character", smash wise.

This guy goes through her potential moveset, and only the projectile would be the only similar component.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Didn't they kinda already did that? I mean, back in Melee, he was a straight clone, but the transition to Brawl, Sakurai changed his neutral A, and the animations from his attacks, even made him significantly slower. I say he's already been Luigified, bbut I think people want a complete overhaul.

His specials need luigifying, that's about it. Dead man's volley, A teleport using what is essentially his entrance animation and his ground slam shockwave would make ganondorf, ganondorf

 

[Naoshi]

Didn't they kinda already did that? I mean, back in Melee, he was a straight clone, but the transition to Brawl, Sakurai changed his neutral A, and the animations from his attacks, even made him significantly slower. I say he's already been Luigified, bbut I think people want a complete overhaul.

Oh, they did? I knew about the slower part but I've barely used both Ganondorf and Captain Falcon, so that's kind of new to me. Did they differenate him further in SSB4?

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Didn't they kinda already did that? I mean, back in Melee, he was a straight clone, but the transition to Brawl, Sakurai changed his neutral A, and the animations from his attacks, even made him significantly slower. I say he's already been Luigified, bbut I think people want a complete overhaul.

Some of his animations changed again, his neutral B (a bit) and his Up-B (the grab).

 

[RoseyBetch]

I agree with this. Star Fox and DK are both my personal favorite series in Smash Bros. And I hate the lack of attention that they have received.

IMO, not only should Wolf have returned, but Leon should have been a newcomer. There is an awesome moveset potential for him.

I don't think Leon is very well known in comparison to Krystal, Peppy, or Slippy, nor does he offer a different point of view when it comes to the StarFox reps in Smash. Wolf already has the "rival" role filled, should he return.

Side note, I want to bring up something that crossed my mind about the upcoming iteration of StarFox for the Wii U. What if Andross gets a more humanoid form in this game, assuming he's in it at all. If he does, he would be a plausible candidate for the next Smash game, being the true villain of the franchise overall.

 

[Naoshi]

Smash Bros needs more villains, if they can make Andross a very viable Smash Bros candidate, then I'm all for it.

 

[TheAnvil]

What moveset? Leon doesn't actually fight as himself. If anything, its entirely possible he'd just be a modified version of the typical Star Fox character in Smash. The only character who is wholefully justified in being a new Star Fox character is Krystal, as she can work with using the staff, which is not only unique for a Star Fox character, but Smash in general at the moment.

Leon is logical next rep for Star Fox IMO. You have Fox and Falco, two members of Star Fox, and Wolf, who is Fox's rival. Slippy would be kinda weird as you'd have 3/4 of the SF team, the same applies to Peppy. Krystal is the other logical candidate, as she can use her staff but I feel that Leon has more going for him.
(Now just assume that Wolf had already returned)

- Fox has his rival in Wolf. Leon is Falco's rival.
- He is described as a Sniper. That alone makes him a stealth/tactical based fighter.
- Camouflage would be an interesting b move to implement.
- As a chameleon, a lot of his normals could be based around using his tongue as a weapon (I know Yoshi has a tongue move, but it's not really the same).

So he has:
- Unique appearance.
- Unique style.
- Unique specials.
- Unique normals.
- Unique looking movement (reptile/Chameleon like).
- Villain.

IMO, he's one of the most logical additions, but that's just me.

 

[ZeldaPlayer87]

I really hoping tomorrow's POTD clarifies our thoughts and finally puts to rest this leak, or fully confirms it.

 

[Anthuhny]

8 player smash huh? Well every character does have at least 8 alts.....

Coincidence?

I think not!

 

[TheAnvil]

8 player smash huh? Well every character does have at least 8 alts.....

Coincidence?

I think not!

Olimar and Alph don't.