Tornado Startup Priority

[Dr. Tuen]

Hey all,

I've had tornado canceled and out prioritized by a lot of moves in the early portions of the animation. To be clear, I am not talking about having someone circumvent the hitboxes and strike from the top, or something of that sort. I am talking about a direct confrontation with the hitboxes of tornado that causes MK to lose.

Some of these have occurred after the entire animation for tornado is out, so I suspect some hitboxes are out too.

===

The frame data states this:

minimum time frame breakdown:
1-11 startup
12-58 hitbox out
59-87 cooldown (this is a grounded nado)

===

11 frames is fairly short, and I believe I have been hit out of tornado sometime between the 11th frame and some time at which we all know tornado takes up it's transcendent priority properties.

I want to know if this portion of less-than-transcendent priority actually exists (have you all experienced this?) and if it does, does anyone know how long it exists for?

Any discussion is appreciated.

Best Regards,

Tuen

 

[Kaffei]

All I know is that the more you have tapped B, the priority increases.

 

[Veril]

"Facepalm"

Nado doesn't have transcendent priority. TP means it won't clash with anything, which is obviously not the case. Nado has extremely good priority, which would be the lowest at the startup of the move.

I also know this because the Nado does have TP in B+. If this were the case in vBrawl every projectile would beat the nado.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

Interesting. Now I know more about transcendent priority :-p.

Still, I am curious as to if anyone has any hard numbers on the rate at which priority increases through the duration of tornado. It might help with it's countering, to an extent.

 

[rathy Aro]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought priority had to do with if one move does 10%+ more damage then the other move it beats it. I think the case with tornado is that it very disjointed

 

[Exdeath]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought priority had to do with if one move does 10%+ more damage then the other move it beats it. I think the case with tornado is that it very disjointed

It's slightly less disjointed than Snake's Utilt.

 

[Judo777]

No MK's tornado has the same priority as all normal b moves. B moves that do not have Trancendant priority actually have the "lowest" (although idk what high or low is im gonna say that marth and MK have high priority) priority meaning that the clank with the most things. The problem with MKs tornado is that it doesn't act like any other B move in the game except maybe drill rush go figure. When MK's tornado clanks with other objects the move doesnt end unlike every other b move. If u clank with DK's spinning kong his move immediately ends.

I believe it is do to a coding error that MK's tornado doesnt end when it gets clanked with which is one of the reasons why the move is so good.

To be very technical MK's tornado is actually by definition "BROKEN" because it doesnt function like normal moves and the result makes the move incredibly powerful.

Ganondorf fair is "BROKEN" in a reverse sense as it can never be autocanceled even tho it should but do to a coding error is doesnt.

 

[Kaffei]

No MK's tornado has the same priority as all normal b moves. B moves that do not have Trancendant priority actually have the "lowest" (although idk what high or low is im gonna say that marth and MK have high priority) priority meaning that the clank with the most things. The problem with MKs tornado is that it doesn't act like any other B move in the game except maybe drill rush go figure. When MK's tornado clanks with other objects the move doesnt end unlike every other b move. If u clank with DK's spinning kong his move immediately ends.

I believe it is do to a coding error that MK's tornado doesnt end when it gets clanked with which is one of the reasons why the move is so good.

To be very technical MK's tornado is actually by definition "BROKEN" because it doesnt function like normal moves and the result makes the move incredibly powerful.

Ganondorf fair is "BROKEN" in a reverse sense as it can never be autocanceled even tho it should but do to a coding error is doesnt.

So Tornado is super gay because of a coding error.

LOOOOOOOOOOL.

 

[deepseadiva]

I believe it is do to a coding error that MK's tornado doesnt end when it gets clanked with which is one of the reasons why the move is so good.

It is a coding error.

We had a coder guy at the Peach dinner - Tornado is missing a word every other move in the game has: EXIT. It's basically a typo, like Peach's airdodge.

 

[6Mizu]

"Facepalm"

Nado doesn't have transcendent priority. TP means it won't clash with anything, which is obviously not the case. Nado has extremely good priority, which would be the lowest at the startup of the move.

I also know this because the Nado does have TP in B+. If this were the case in vBrawl every projectile would beat the nado.

@ Tuen's OP: I already knew this, also Veril explains it better.

 

[Cloudfox]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought priority had to do with if one move does 10%+ more damage then the other move it beats it. I think the case with tornado is that it very disjointed

...I was all ready to refute the part about damage when I decided to test a couple moves that seemed to have a habit of breaking through 'nado in my tournament matches - Pit and Bowser's Ftilts. ....turns out, you seem to be right. ._. They have a damage output 10% and 11% higher than the 1% output of MK's 'nado hits, respectively.

I also tested Giant Punch, Falcon Punch, and Bowser's Up and Fsmashes (have to space that last one reeal well...), and the same thing happened. They're all ground moves, yet they never canceled due to clanking, whereas these and other characters' jabs, for example, would. Thanks dude, I thought I had priority all figured out here. ._.

Caveat: It looks like this only applies to ground moves, as I couldn't reproduce it with any aerials, including the aforementioned specials used in the air.

When MK's tornado clanks with other objects the move doesnt end unlike every other b move. If u clank with DK's spinning kong his move immediately ends.

Both Mach Tornado and Spinning Kong can only clank-cancel on the ground. I'm positive you've never seen it end in the air due to clanking, because moves used in the air don't halt when they clank (unless of course the opposing move actually hit through to the character's *hurt*box and made them flinch).

Edit: I forgot to ask, does all this answer the mystery in the OP? Were you clanking 'nado while it was on the ground, and "outprioritizing" it with relatively strong ground moves even when it was in the air, Tuen?


Edit 2 argh: Okay, I think it's 9%+ over the opposing move actually, as Falcon's F and D tilts broke through it too.

Also - and this is gonna make this sort of thing a ***** to keep track of in-match - in order for damage-relative priority to work, your move needs to CURRENTLY do 9% or more over the opposing one. When I staled Bowser's Ftilt enough, it simply clank-canceled like his jabs. >.<

 

[Dr. Tuen]

Er, not quite.

There was no clank, and I've been out done in the air too. One specific move I can remember is Wolf's bair. As the tornado started up, I got nailed with it even after the initial yellow animation came out. So I'm just curious as to if the tornado has some kind of start up vulnerability.

And since the animation came out, I'm not sure if it fits into the 11 frames of start up time. It may be after. And if that is the case, there are different properties to an aerial tornado for its first few hitbox frames.

 

[TheMike]

Interesting. Now I know more about transcendent priority :-p.

Just for the record, only the glide attack and no-swords attacks do not have transcendent priority, as far as I know.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

So you know, there's no such thing as "priority" really in Brawl (except TP), it's just a fancy name for the way hitboxes interact with each other. Tornado's priority is the same throughout the move, hitting B doesn't increase it unless it increases the size of the hitbubbles (which it might, I don't really know).

The only moves that really beat it are moves that hit MK while inside his 'nado without the 'nado hitting the opponent first. There are really only a few, most of them disjointed attacks.

 

[BluePeachy100]

ICs Uair ?