If docs pills could be land-canceled like falco and foxes lazers or samus's missles, hed be with falco, marth, fox, and sheik at the top of the tier list.
Discuss.
Discuss.
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Top Tier
- Thread starter #HBC | Mac
- Start date
Roman.
Smash Champion
Interesting thought, I wanna hear what everyone else says.
Artery_Clogger
Smash Apprentice
It wouldn't matter that much. Samus' missles aren't really that good anyway.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
i doubt it.
he'd be a lot better because his approach options would be severely buffed but he'd still have to deal with the whole lack of range, lack of priority, pills get broken by moves easily, etc.
better than samus because pill --> grab would be much more feasible (samus needs a grab game) but not top tier.
he'd be a lot better because his approach options would be severely buffed but he'd still have to deal with the whole lack of range, lack of priority, pills get broken by moves easily, etc.
better than samus because pill --> grab would be much more feasible (samus needs a grab game) but not top tier.
Iron Dragon
Smash Lord
I don't think Falco or Sheik is top tier personally.....
Replace them more with Jiggs and Peach and its pretty good I think.
Replace them more with Jiggs and Peach and its pretty good I think.
Roman.
Smash Champion
the pills still have mad lag in the air unlike shl and aren't as powerful/feared as missiles
otg
Smash Master
I think Doc would be Top Tier if his recovery wasn't so easily gimped. Honestly, he's a very solid character who really only lacks range. SHPill would be sick, but who needs it when you have sick pill tricks such as:
- Full Jump Pill -> Waveland
- Full Jump Pill -> Double Jump Pill
- FJP -> DJP -> Waveland
SH Pills and grounded pills have their uses, especially in certain matchups (Luigi, Icies), but for the most part Full Jumping them is the way to go. Pills in conjunction with Wavelanding opens up a lot of options.
Honestly, I think pills are waaaay overrated. They are nice for edgeguarding, camping (sort of) and annoying your opponent by creating a wall of protection, but Lasers, Needles and Missiles are infinitely more useful. Pills best usage is just for spacing and beating out enemy attacks.
- Full Jump Pill -> Waveland
- Full Jump Pill -> Double Jump Pill
- FJP -> DJP -> Waveland
SH Pills and grounded pills have their uses, especially in certain matchups (Luigi, Icies), but for the most part Full Jumping them is the way to go. Pills in conjunction with Wavelanding opens up a lot of options.
Honestly, I think pills are waaaay overrated. They are nice for edgeguarding, camping (sort of) and annoying your opponent by creating a wall of protection, but Lasers, Needles and Missiles are infinitely more useful. Pills best usage is just for spacing and beating out enemy attacks.
Roman.
Smash Champion
I think doc's recovery is underrated, i mean it's not terrible if you do it right (although if it was like jigs then yeah that'd make him a lot better). What would make him top tier is something like marth's fsmash as his dtilt lol!
SmashMac
Smash Lord
Doc. doesn't need to be top tier. He's good enough.
Grunt
Smash Master
WTF? are you kidding me?
because Shiek totally Isn't gay.
otg
Smash Master
I agree that it's underrated. Doc has a lot of options... under the right circumstances. His vertical recovery is good with a double jump, and your fine if he's sent out with good DI, but compared to other characters in terms of total distance it's pretty bad.
His sweetspot is win though, and has saved me 1,000 times. The fact that it can be so misleading is one of his strengths while recovering. Sadly he's easily intercepted while recovering in general and thus fails.
Roman.
Smash Champion
^^ All true but I just like the fact that most people don't realize doc can get back pretty easily even if he's off screen but I've had someone people already think they have the kill. But yeah doc's big hands are so nifty and do save you a lot XDD
edit: does mario have big hands like doc too?
edit: does mario have big hands like doc too?
otg
Smash Master
Nope, his sweetspot range is nowhere near as effective.
SmashMac
Smash Lord
If you know how to DI and know the proper sequence for the right situation of Doc's recovery it's really not as bad as it's known for. Don't break it's limits though, because it is one of the worser recoveries in the game and it's always good to know what you're prone to. But in an actual reply to the topic, Doc's pills don't really help his overall game of spam, camp, approach, and counter as much as Fox/Falco's Lasers and Sheik's needles do. They're primarily situational depending on your opponent's character and their position. Doc is primarily a situational character as far as opportunity is concerned, where as Sheik for instance is not ... she wins because her legs ... and Fox and Falco have lasers that really help their game. Not saying that it's easier to place consistently with Fox/Falco/Sheik. It does take tremendous skill to accomplish something like top 25 in the nation with those characters. Just that it's generally "more difficult" for a Doctor Mario to make that same feat ... which is why there's only been one Doctor Mario to accomplish that which I believe was Caveman a few years back on the rankings. I'm personally up for the challenge though.
Doc's sweet-spot range is way more effective than Mario's too.
Doc's sweet-spot range is way more effective than Mario's too.
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
Yeah, even though those top tier chars have their shorthop projectiles, that's not necessarily the reason they're top tier. They have other stuff that Doc doesn't.
Also, Peach and Jigglypuff are NOT top tier.
Also, Peach and Jigglypuff are NOT top tier.
i just thought that with out that lag at the end pills would come out much faster and his pill spam game would improve. Also someone said it would improve docs grab game, it agree, it would give doc much safer way to approach the same way falcos lazers do. It wouldnt be as effective because there is more start up lag but it would help greatly since doc has short reach on most of his moves and lacks methods of approaching.
but yea i was over exaggerating when i said top tier, but i definitely think he would move up on the tier list.
but yea i was over exaggerating when i said top tier, but i definitely think he would move up on the tier list.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
sheik is best, second best, or third best character in this game. you'll get a different answer depending on who you ask; m2k says sheik is best. when i asked pc chris at pound 3 he said fox was best. wobbles said marth at the big georgia tourney when my friend asked him. it depends.
falco is top somewhere, probably fourth (although again it depends on who you ask).
peach and jiggs have no place in top tier.
otg
Smash Master
Agreed, I feel like there are two separate tier lists: "Total Potential" and "Realized Potential." Total Potential being what was possible if we could all have 'perfect control' and Realized Potential being based off tournament results and human potential.
Total Potential Tiers:
Fox
Falco
Sheik
Marth
Realized Potential Tiers:
Marth
Fox
Sheik
Falco
Sheik is #3 IMO no matter how you look at it.
doc would be BETTER if he had cancelled pills. Guess what? He doesnt.
He wouldnt be anywhere near top cause his recovery blows. *looks up at smashmac* Yeah i said it, doc's recovery f'n blows, and im about to walk back into the gym and tell you doc's recovery f'n blows.
um, ill yell at this more when i get back into the house im staying today.
He wouldnt be anywhere near top cause his recovery blows. *looks up at smashmac* Yeah i said it, doc's recovery f'n blows, and im about to walk back into the gym and tell you doc's recovery f'n blows.
um, ill yell at this more when i get back into the house im staying today.
Yomi-no-Kuni
Smash Lord
doc w/out pill-landing lag would be an awesome spam char i think
Roman.
Smash Champion
if doc had a sword and a gun then he'd be top tier
otg
Smash Master
This man speaks the truth. Doc's recovery is his biggest downfall.
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
Increased range and a better recovery would be more important.
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
Falco has bad recovery too...
atleast falco has options, all docs have is sweetspot the edge or upB on to the stage
unknown522
Some guy
doc still would have several problems. He might be slightly higher in mid tier, but his lack of range, not good priority, and ****ty grab (not throws) would still hold him back.