Meta Top 5 Notable Players from their respective characters

[Zguh]

replace all mewtwos with #crewtwo

 

[~Unknown~]

You're right. Izaw/wheo make amazing guides, but have no tourney results. There's no footage of kirinblaze for like months now so that's inconsistent. Noone from the link boards has heard of T nor know who he is. Scizor has the best results out of most links. Hyrule hero has decent results as well. Catana may be the best link but due to small/weak region I can understand the excluding. Although he does have results in his own region. Fierce has decent results so does sova unknown in their respective regions.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

One day I'll be on that Charizard list

 

[Vermanubis]

The tournament was 80-men, but had pools so the final tournament bracket was 40-men. He was also top 48/320 at Umebura Niconico Tokaigi Qualifiers, which is pretty good if you ask me.

But who did he beat? I can't overstate the dangers of euphemizing tournament results by appending "top" to them. Pon is terrific, there's no question, but it's also worth considering the content of results. For instance, my locals usually get 50~ entrants, but given the distribution of skill levels, getting top 10 isn't necessarily very remarkable.

My point in all of this is that concrete evidence is in short supply to justify Pon over three other Ganons who have both results in numbers and names to substantiate them. 13/80 is indeed pretty good. 48/320 is also good. But for perspective, it's worth restating that with a reasonable seed, getting to 48/320 means winning ~3 matches, usually not against the major threats. That's why I think it's wise to always be skeptical of numbers in a vacuum. Bracket/result relationships are logarithmic, so getting into the top 12.5 percentile in a 1,000,000 man tournament means winning 4 matches.

Again, if we're abiding <strictly> by numbers, then @Opana should be over Pon; same with @Swoops. Unfortunately, our tournament results thread hasn't seen an update in half a year or so, so I'll let these gentlemen speak for themselves.

 

[Meru.]

KEN's Sonic is just as good as Komorikiri. He got second at he last Umebura tournament and places well consistently. He's currently ranked 10th on the Umebura Power Rankings. His name should be next to Komorikiri's.

S1-14 (Ness) is one of the strongest players in Europe, his Ness should be on the list. He has beaten other solid EU players like J. Miller and Ixis too, but admittedly that was some time ago.

EDIT: I'm surprised Aiba's Yoshi isn't on there too. He's (one of the?) best Yoshi's in Japan.

I'm surprised Shuton was added for Olimar. Glad he's on the list though.

So am I! Very pleased he's getting recognition, his Olimar is a beast.

Noone from the link boards has heard of T nor know who he is. .

Everyone in Japan knows who he is. He's a well-known Link player.

Catana has done nothing impressive though. On top of being in a free region, it appears Catana has been relatively inactive and still doesn't fit the criteria.
No locals of 70+ entrants. No majors. Hyrulehero, KirinBlaze, myself, Izaw and Wheo are all leagues better. Izaw/wheo just don't have the tournament exposure and the rest of us come from hard regions.

Are you aware of the fact that he comes from the same region as Mr. R, iStudying (the #1 Greninja main on this list) and S1-14 (one of Europe's strongest players)? You also do know that those players attended a 70+ tourney he attended too (Avalon U), right? On top of that, have you ever been to that "free region"? It's kind of a bold statement to make.

^ kinda the reason why I'm not very fond of these threads. It's very easy to look down on others using baseless statements in order to elevate yourself.

 

[Famous]

Hey guys, I play doc. That is all.

 

[Fierce66]

KEN's Sonic is just as good as Komorikiri. He got second at he last Umebura tournament and places well consistently. He's currently ranked 10th on the Umebura Power Rankings. His name should be next to Komorikiri's.

KEN's Sonic is just as good as Komorikiri. He got second at he last Umebura tournament and places well consistently. He's currently ranked 10th on the Umebura Power Rankings. His name should be next to Komorikiri's.

S1-14 (Ness) is one of the strongest players in Europe, his Ness should be on the list. He has beaten other solid EU players like J. Miller and Ixis too, but admittedly that was some time ago.



So am I! Very pleased he's getting recognition, his Olimar is a beast.



Are you aware of the fact that he comes from the same region as Mr. R, iStudying (the #1 Greninja main on this list) and S1-14 (one of Europe's strongest players)? You also do know that those players attended a 70+ tourney he attended too (Avalon U), right? On top of that, have you ever been to that "free region"? It's kind of a bold statement to make.

^ kinda the reason why I'm not very fond of these threads. It's very easy to look down on others using baseless statements in order to elevate yourself.

S1-14 (Ness) is one of the strongest players in Europe, his Ness should be on the list. He has beaten other solid EU players like J. Miller and Ixis too, but admittedly that was some time ago.



So am I! Very pleased he's getting recognition, his Olimar is a beast.



Are you aware of the fact that he comes from the same region as Mr. R, iStudying (the #1 Greninja main on this list) and S1-14 (one of Europe's strongest players)? You also do know that those players attended a 70+ tourney he attended too (Avalon U), right? On top of that, have you ever been to that "free region"? It's kind of a bold statement to make.

^ kinda the reason why I'm not very fond of these threads. It's very easy to look down on others using baseless statements in order to elevate yourself.

I'm sorry, correct my ignorance. Is there any set of Catana playing any of them? I haven't seen any. Like I said. It seems Catana has been inactive, too. Coming from a same area doesn't equate to same region. Is there a bracket with them in it? Not being condescending. Genuinely curious.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Spoiler: My 0.02

Zero > Mr r / Void / Edge > Shu / Rain / Vinnie; hard to say who's 5th
Nairo > Marss > Choco > Nick > dunno; I think Choco is > Nick but Marss deserves to be ranked over Choco imo
OP list looks good
Komorikiri > KEN / 6wx > Manny > Seagull
Trela > 9B > motsunabe > Jack / Venom / False; tough call for 4th & 5th
Larry > SH > Xzax / Sodrek / Megafox; really hard call for 3rd - 5th, does Nakat even do stuff with Fox anymore?
Rain > Komorikiri > Tweek; dunno who else is relevant for this character but Rain wins tournaments with solo-Cloud.
Zero > Nietono > Angel Cortez / Zinoto / MVD; Ryuji will likely be top 5 soon but not right now
Fow > Shaky > taranito > Nakat > Gakuto
Leo > Tyrant / Abadango > Ito > Salena
Mr. CC > Luigi_player > Poke / Miller; Boss is #2 if active
The Wall > Dio > Raptor;
OP list looks good
Fatality > Sayia > Pichi / Tearbear > Acid / Grim Turtle;
Shu > KingKong > LeTroof

 

[Raziek]

I'd put Dath over Raziek, I think Dath has better results in a much stronger region. Raziek flopped in pools at G3.

Dath placed exactly the same as me at G3 (we both lost our first matches in R2 pools Loser's side) and I beat him consistently in the ditto. (3x in serious sets on wifi, most recently in person at G3).

Nick Riddle also said I was better than Dath (albeit slightly), so take that for what you will. This was after playing him in hotel room srslies for about 2.5-3 hours.

 

[Meru.]

I'm sorry, correct my ignorance. Is there any set of Catana playing any of them? I haven't seen any. Like I said. It seems Catana has been inactive, too. Coming from a same area doesn't equate to same region. Is there a bracket with them in it? Not being condescending. Genuinely curious.

np, sorry if I seemed a bit aggressive. I think there are a few vids of Cat (this is the name he goes by usually) on Youtube, also one where he beat S1-14 (who admittedly had been inactive for a while). Many of his matches go unrecorded though :/. Avalon U's bracket can be found here.

The Netherlands is pretty small, it's the same region.

 

[~Unknown~]

Just remove T from the Link names. That is all

 

[HoSmash4]

Dath placed exactly the same as me at G3 (we both lost our first matches in R2 pools Loser's side) and I beat him consistently in the ditto. (3x in serious sets on wifi, most recently in person at G3).

Nick Riddle also said I was better than Dath (albeit slightly), so take that for what you will.

If it's that close I have no problems. Thanks for justifying it.

Although the main thing I dont like about this type of rankings is that its very subjective and often popular players from well-advertised regions like MD/VA will get the benefit of the doubt than less known regions. I preferred Shaya's list because it was objective and based purely on level of wins.

 

[Jucchan]

But who did he beat? I can't overstate the dangers of euphemizing tournament results by appending "top" to them. Pon is terrific, there's no question, but it's also worth considering the content of results. For instance, my locals usually get 50~ entrants, but given the distribution of skill levels, getting top 10 isn't necessarily very remarkable.

My point in all of this is that concrete evidence is in short supply to justify Pon over three other Ganons who have both results in numbers and names to substantiate them. 13/80 is indeed pretty good. 48/320 is also good. But for perspective, it's worth restating that with a reasonable seed, getting to 48/320 means winning ~3 matches, usually not against the major threats. That's why I think it's wise to always be skeptical of numbers in a vacuum. Bracket/result relationships are logarithmic, so getting into the top 12.5 percentile in a 1,000,000 man tournament means winning 4 matches.

Again, if we're abiding <strictly> by numbers, then @Opana should be over Pon; same with @Swoops. Unfortunately, our tournament results thread hasn't seen an update in half a year or so, so I'll let these gentlemen speak for themselves.

Pon's victories at those two tournaments were against two mid-level sheiks (Takoman, Mao), Lean (Pikachu arguably better than Shimitake), a little mac, Salena (2nd best MK in Japan after Abadango), and Kamemushi (Megaman/Cloud 1~3rd best Megaman in Japan, Cloud has beaten Choco). They're not super high-profile wins but at least the wins against Lean, Salena, and Kamemushi are pretty good. Of his 4 losses, 3 were to top-high level Sonics (Komorikiri, Octo, Yoc) and the 4th was to SH, who imo is the second best Fox in the world. I get your point though.

 

[TheHypnotoad]

If it's that close I have no problems. Thanks for justifying it.

Although the main thing I dont like about this type of rankings is that its very subjective and often popular players from well-advertised regions like MD/VA will get the benefit of the doubt than less known regions. I preferred Shaya's list because it was objective and based purely on level of wins.

Every worldwide PR in existence has regional bias. There is no way to avoid it, so just acknowledge it's there and move on.

 

[Jucchan]

Just remove T from the Link names. That is all

Why? He's clearly the best Japanese Link, and was Top 24/320 at Umebura Niconico Tokaigi Qualifiers beating the likes of Daiki, Aiba, and taranito. He's far from being unknown.

 

[Vermanubis]

Pon's victories at those two tournaments were against two mid-level sheiks (Takoman, Mao), Lean (Pikachu arguably better than Shimitake), a little mac, Salena (2nd best MK in Japan after Abadango), and Kamemushi (Megaman/Cloud 1~3rd best Megaman in Japan, Cloud has beaten Choco). They're not super high-profile wins but at least the wins against Lean, Salena, and Kamemushi are pretty good. Of his 4 losses, 3 were to top-high level Sonics (Komorikiri, Octo, Yoc) and the 4th was to SH, who imo is the second best Fox in the world. I get your point though.

Cool, I appreciate the insight. I suppose I'd have to see these guys play to make an accurate judgment, but all the same, I still feel that Pon hasn't quite hit the top 5 mark, much less the #2 spot. I feel like people (non-Ganons and Ganons alike) set the bar somewhat low. I think Ganon can beat high-level players in his worst MUs, so seeing top-quality Ganon pass with only mid-quality accomplishments gets me... a bit feisty.

 

[Macchiato]

Lord Mix should be the 2-3 because he's beaten Fatality and Scatt and probably more

 

[adom4]

But who did he beat? I can't overstate the dangers of euphemizing tournament results by appending "top" to them. Pon is terrific, there's no question, but it's also worth considering the content of results. For instance, my locals usually get 50~ entrants, but given the distribution of skill levels, getting top 10 isn't necessarily very remarkable.

My point in all of this is that concrete evidence is in short supply to justify Pon over three other Ganons who have both results in numbers and names to substantiate them. 13/80 is indeed pretty good. 48/320 is also good. But for perspective, it's worth restating that with a reasonable seed, getting to 48/320 means winning ~3 matches, usually not against the major threats. That's why I think it's wise to always be skeptical of numbers in a vacuum. Bracket/result relationships are logarithmic, so getting into the top 12.5 percentile in a 1,000,000 man tournament means winning 4 matches.

Again, if we're abiding <strictly> by numbers, then @Opana should be over Pon; same with @Swoops. Unfortunately, our tournament results thread hasn't seen an update in half a year or so, so I'll let these gentlemen speak for themselves.

We're posting results there it's just not updated yet lol.

 

[Vermanubis]

We're posting results there it's just not updated yet lol.

Yeah, I might have to go in myself and update it.

 

[~Unknown~]

Why? He's clearly the best Japanese Link, and was Top 24/320 at Umebura Niconico Tokaigi Qualifiers beating the likes of Daiki, Aiba, and taranito. He's far from being unknown.

Please link me his matches

 

[Seagull Joe]

Pink Fresh should be listed for and .

 

[Fierce66]

Why? He's clearly the best Japanese Link, and was Top 24/320 at Umebura Niconico Tokaigi Qualifiers beating the likes of Daiki, Aiba, and taranito. He's far from being unknown.

Really? He sounds awesome. Have any vids? Couldn't find any myself.

 

[Jucchan]

Please link me his matches

Really? He sounds awesome. Have any vids? Couldn't find any myself.

His best tourney was on niconico, so literally the only footage of him at an offline tourney that isn't behind a paywall is a 5-month old video of him beating Lean, one of the best Pikas in Japan, then a more recent one of him losing to a different but still good Pika, Shimitake.

 

[Joaco]

Also True Blue should be 5th for . He's recently beaten MVD in tournament.

(DJ Jack here)

True Blue (Sonic main from FL who's 2nd best right behind StaticManny) should be taken into consideration for a spot on the list as well.

I second this, True Blue is having better results than supergirlkels, in a harder region, and he is attending majors.

 

[FullMoon]

Out of mild curiosity how good are Shiki's results in Japan? I know he's a notable Greninja main but I'm wondering whether he should be above Gibus or not.

 

[Jucchan]

Out of mild curiosity how good are Shiki's results in Japan? I know he's a notable Greninja main but I'm wondering whether he should be above Gibus or not.

Shiki's results are not good. His results since FAT; Umebura FAT: Top 192/320, Umebura Niconico Tokaigi Qualifiers: Top 96/320, Umebura 20: Top 48/160-ish(?). So basically his accomplishments are not drowning in pools.

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

Can people that post nothing to contribute be infracted or something
Mainly to discourage ****posts like "put me in top 5" "I almost took Boss to game 3, add me" which clutters up the thread

 

[Abbey Street]

http://smashboards.com/threads/hierarchies-of-power-the-ganon-community-tier-list.393614/

 

[RiotLettuce]

If we're doing shameless advertising as well. I believe that since there are two ???'s for Mii brawler, I should be on there. While the mii brawlers you put down all had decent results, they're all super outdated and I dont think any of them have even used the character since Evo. I may be wrong but that's besides the point. I used custom DK / Mii brawler at Evo and placed 33, and the one match I had on stream I used custom DK. I have recent wins on Poltergust, even double eliminating him at a weekly, since there are no others, I feel like I am entitled to a spot, and I will cry like a crybaby if I do not receive my spot.

 

[Dathx]

In the case of me vs. Raz, we're both VERY close, but there's no need to rely on subjective information when there's a piece of objective information that most people don't know about. I'm currently 1-0 against Static Manny/Onii | Heero in tournament (beat him 2-0 at Frame Perfect) while Raziek is 0-1 against him (lost 0-2 at TBH5). He's the only person we've both played in tournament (not sure about money matches). Otherwise, we have similar placings recently; I was 33rd at Paragon LA, he was 33rd at TBH5, and we both flopped at G3.

 

[Heartstring]

You are 100% missing Ixis/IxisNaugus from 'notable sonics'. He's definitely the best sonic in Europe.

Notable placings:
65th at Genesis3 (for the record, that's an absurdly low placing in a lot of peoples opinions): https://smash.gg/tournament/genesis-3/brackets/10619/4409/17858/standings
3rd at DBZ7 (The largest Smash4 tournament in Europe thus far...although that will soon be overtaken by Beast6): http://gp-tips.challonge.com/dbz7pro
1st at dbz8 & dbz9 (UK nationals): http://gp-tips.challonge.com/DBZ8Singles & https://smash.gg/tournament/dat-blastzone-9/brackets/10783/3909/16093/standings

 

[Remzi]

ZSS list looks literally perfect atm IMO. Nick and Choco are super close, but I think Choco takes a super slight edge atm.

Also, I go by Remzi now, not VaBengal if you don't mind switching that.

I gotta start using Zard more in tourney and get to #1 on that list

 

[Deleted member]

Why did you remove lordmix from ? Considering hes beaten fatality and scatt, i think he has better results than letroof
andy sauro hasnt really done anything so i recommend either the japanese or french bjr (forgot their names)
zinoto has been doing MUCH better than MVD lately. Beating ally 2-3 times, beating abadango and getting top 32 at g3 where MVD got 33rd, he also outplaced MVD at TBH5
***** hasnt really done anything over manzoku, so once again i suggest putting manzoku over him

 

[Splash Damage]

Just gonna make a case real quick:
Raffi-x
While he's mostly a wifi player, Raffi-x has more than shown up in many NE tournaments as a solo Rob main for several months now. He is currently ranked 6th on the New England PR, with notable placings as follows:
-3rd at Smash On the Hill VIII, a 67 player Boston monthly featuring 4 NEPR members,
-7th at Gums 05, NE's flagship monthly regional featuring every single NEPR member & 140+ total players,
-3rd at the first GU weekly of the season, double eliminating False from bracket in a 70+ player bracket,
-9th at Gums 04, a 103 man bracket featuring 8 of the 10 NEPR players,
And a whole lot more that I'm too crunched for time to find.

 

[Syde7]

Just throwing my two cents out there to see who picks it up:

R.O.B.
No mention of RoboLuigi (#3 in his country, Spain) is a travesty. I can somewhat understand him not being on there (to a degree) since he has no results from tourneys in the US.

Shameless & obligatory self plug that I'd be remiss to not mention (R.O.B.):
49th/744 at SmashCon (one placing below Mister Eric's 33rd)
25th/244 at Tipped Off 11
4th/86 & 7/70 at Meteor Smash (two of the largest NC Smash 4 tournaments)
5/56 at Tech Shack Tiger Smash (featuring Esam taking first place)
7/78 at La Paradiso (featuring Zero taking first place)
Will totally concede to some inconsistent placements.


Sonic:
This might be some regional bias but Kai (NC's #1 player) wins roughly 97% of all NC tournaments & has placements on the national level. I personally feel he has results to slip him past SGKs.
9th/744 at SmashCon (losing to Zero and Angel Cortes)
13th/ 244 Tipped Off 11
1st/86 & 1/70 at Meteor Smash
3/78 at La Paradiso (featuring Zero taking first)

I also second (?third) Joaco & @DJ Arcatek's sentiment of TrueBlue.


Personal aside:
I think a Top 5 is a bit narrow, given the global reach Smash 4 has had, even this early in the meta and how segmented a lot of the regions still are, what with only like 2-3? (Apex2015, Evo2015, SmashCon, Genesis 3... and in some ways I almost don't count Apex bc the game was legit 2 months old, and Evo is suspect due to customs being on) ZOMFGMEGANATIONALS that one would expect a large portion of those "in consideration" to reasonably attend. Basically, I don't feel there is enough "national level crossover" that would warrant narrowing down to a Top 5 w/o certain folks (speaking more to folks like True Blue, Kai, and others that I didn't really go into detail about's credit) being unjustly left out.

 

[Fierce66]

His best tourney was on niconico, so literally the only footage of him at an offline tourney that isn't behind a paywall is a 5-month old video of him beating Lean, one of the best Pikas in Japan, then a more recent one of him losing to a different but still good Pika, Shimitake.

Thank you for posting this! I feel that I did better against shimitake when he was down in SFL two weeks back but I won't judge T solely based off that. Glad there are many talented Links.

In terms of Riot, I personally think he should replace Larry on the DK list. DK is Riot's main. He also does pretty well with Brawler.

Edit: I fourth TrueBlue being listed. He earned it.

 

[RiotLettuce]

2) Stay commited with your character for at least 2 months (unless you got a really good result from winning a large local event, or placed really high at a national).

With this being said I'm not sure how committed Larry has been to Donkey Kong. And if he has good results with DK only and not pulling them out for one match vs Void at G3, and Void at 2gg, which he lost both. So if he does have good wins with DK please lemme know cuz im honestly ignorant to them

Also I'm not sure if Vex has ever been to a big tourney and has used DK. With that being said Vex is a DK main and a damn good one being number 1 power ranked in Philly or pitsbourgh or something like that.

I'm also ignorant to Average Joe's results without customs, I've seen him beat Logic's Diddy and JJRockets Diddy but thats about as far as my knowledge extends about him in vanilla.

Those are just my concerns, if someone can educate me about them it would be appreciated.

 

[Kider]

Why did you remove lordmix from ? Considering hes beaten fatality and scatt, i think he has better results than letroof
andy sauro hasnt really done anything so i recommend either the japanese or french bjr (forgot their names)
zinoto has been doing MUCH better than MVD lately. Beating ally 2-3 times, beating abadango and getting top 32 at g3 where MVD got 33rd, he also outplaced MVD at TBH5
***** hasnt really done anything over manzoku, so once again i suggest putting manzoku over him

Just to make sure everyone knows facts about *****:
***** has beaten MJG, thats pretty notable. He has also taken games off of Ally and Rayquaza and got 25th at BH5. Also, he is doing notably well in doubles, getting 5th at BH5 w/ Ksev as well as beating M2k & Vinnie, Fatality & VaBengal in BH5 dubs.
Unfortunately he doesn't enter very many tournaments or travel.

I won't argue about him being above or below manzoku, I leave it up to the list maker to decide!

 

[Kibzu~]

I recommend that Anaky (3rd best in the UK) Is added to toon link, Plastic Poptart (5th Best in the UK) who is a Pit player also should be added. Ixis who is the best in the UK is debate-able for the Sonics although he went 3-2 with Mr.R once in a set.

 

[ARGHETH]

Yo can anyone let me know the purpose of wii u backroom, who is in it, and who chooses who is in it?

Well, nothing to do with this list, for one.

I recommend that Anaky (3rd best in the UK) Is added to toon link, Plastic Poptart (5th Best in the UK) who is a Pit player also should be added. Ixis who is the best in the UK is debate-able for the Sonics although he went 3-2 with Mr.R once in a set.

What have they done? Because the TL list, at least, is already filled with good players with good results from tournaments