Toonami Mafia - Game Over - Daytime Programing wins!

[Rajam]

Also, assuming Nabe scum, and with the inconsistence between Rake and WATT, it makes me feel "safer" about Inferno; if he is scum he should be a Ninja, but then why is there an inconsistence between Rake and WATT? It's much more simple that he is just VT as he claimed.

 

[vanderzant]

I'm fine with Rajam being shot and yes he should claim if everyone agrees on it.

We don't get anything until another phase has passed, for one.

Other than, uh lynching scum?

We can confirm whether or not WATT is town by his claimed shot. If he's telling the truth, the roleblocker should be dead by the Night phase (it's likely either Nabe or Rake).

Game also could be over once we lynch Rake (maybe a little optimistic, but it's possible).

 

[vanderzant]

Ninja'd by tracker claim lol. Eating lunch, will think about this a bit more.

 

[vanderzant]

If Rajam was scum, why would he claim a clear on just about the only other suggested lynch choice for toDay? (This is rhetorical btw).

1. Lynch Rake
2. Have WATT shoot... no one? Frozen/Pjb? If Rake is the last mafia member, I can't really see the value in shooting to try and hit an indy, when it's more likely that 1. the indy can't kill or 2. Watt is indy and was roleblocked by mafia on N1.
3. Have Rajam track WATT (to make sure he doesn't kill anyone).

Even if Rajam is scum, he'll be caught in his lie eventually. Someone tell me what they think about this course of action (especially you WATT, since you're a big participant).

The more I think about this though, the more I think the game is over once we lynch Rake.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

if rajam's a tracker that effectively makes him useless in comparison to WATT's supposed role.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

if rajam's a tracker that effectively makes him useless in comparison to WATT's supposed role.

How? WATT gets an ability at random, and happened to track one time. Rajam is a dedicated tracker, according to his claim.

The least believable claim so far, is yours.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Unvote

Vote: Rake

 

[vanderzant]

If we can get WATT/Rajam to agree to the plan I proposed (WATT no targets and Rajam tracks him), I think we might be in a good position to end the Day.

If WATT is scum, his only option is to either comply or kill Rajam. A Rajam Town Tracker flip would confirm Inferno as Vanilla Town and then WATT has to claim his new ability for Day 4. Town can just wait for Rake's flip, and if it's a Town one WATT is obviously scum. Basically, he's stuck between a rock and a hard place. Simple stuff.

If Rajam's scum we just have to keep an eye on who's tracking and eventually he'll slip up. But I'm against him being shot toNight because a tracker is useful, and scum will probably want him dead since we'll be directing him.

Other than that, I still want some content from Frozen but he'll likely be in the firing line tomorrow anyway, so I'm ok with dealing with him then. Same with Inferno, but Rajam's result suggests they're not malicious right now.

 

[vanderzant]

Aaand the fact that Rake hasn't acknowledged that if he's Town WATT must be scum is incredibly telling.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

In the morning? You used your action at night, correct? Usually confirmations like that happen ~before~ the game starts up again. I'm starting to think that your result was tampered with, and Ryu had to check something and noticed said tampering put on you. It might be the real report that you were given, but there is no doubt in my mind that you weren't screwed with somehow. It doesn't make sense for Ryu to mess up like that, and I don't think that was a simple error.

I don't know when he actually gave me the message, I didn't check actual time-frames or anything like that. I just saw the thread was up and I had a result. I could check them if you really care that much, but I don't think it means anything at all whether he opened the thread before or after getting all results out to people. I'm pretty sure most mods (or at least me when I mod) do it all in one go regardless.

(Ryu heavily implied to me while we were playing yesterday that he mistook my Watch for a Track and was on two hours of sleep, but that's non-confirmable as he wouldn't state the official reason for the mod error until post-game. Point is: though I myself considered the fact it could be a tamper play, Rake's claim if true makes it seem unlikely it was in fact tampered with. If someone directed any ability to Rake to make this happen it should have failed on him. The only tamper possibility that would work is if someone left false evidence at the scene of the crime and that seems an unlikely role to exist)

 

[Wots All This Then?]

And if they tampered with the direction of our results instead, doing something like directing us to Rake would be pointless: and even if we were tricked into watching some other slot besides Clownbot then it still begs the question how did Rake visit that other slot with his claimed role?

Rake scum.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Not really a stretch considering redirector and bus driver's aren't uncommon and it doesn't out of place for this game either. I'm not one to mod meta but I'm not lynching either today.

And how would a redirector or bus driver replicate the results we got? What possible sequence of redirections and bus-driving would put a claimed non-targettable at the scene of a watch where a death took place?

 

[Wots All This Then?]

WATT, I assume when you were crumbing, you were given the correct information by Ruy?

We thought we had the reaffirmed correct information (aka that no one visited Clown) and were crumbing we had info to claim while contemplating if outing our role to reveal the existence of a ninja and RB was worthwhile. We decided to see what night ability we were putting at risk before deciding further (we eventually get Vig shortly before Ryu admits his mistake). At the point in which I tell thread that RR is breaking my balls, Ryu admits he made a mod error and we should have seen Rake visiting Clown. After that claiming wasn't an option, it was what we clearly had to do.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Were you explicitly told that 'Rake visited Clownbot'? Because this gives you more information than i'd typically expect, i.e. it confirms that your target wasn't messed with etc.

We were told we saw "Rake visit Clown during the night".

I don't believe that's atypical wording of results either real or redirected.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Honestly WATT's role sounds mad indy

vote: Wots All This Then?

We're completely immune to all night actions including kills!

Rajam... your powers of deduction astound me.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

If we can get WATT/Rajam to agree to the plan I proposed (WATT no targets and Rajam tracks him), I think we might be in a good position to end the Day.

If WATT is scum, his only option is to either comply or kill Rajam. A Rajam Town Tracker flip would confirm Inferno as Vanilla Town and then WATT has to claim his new ability for Day 4. Town can just wait for Rake's flip, and if it's a Town one WATT is obviously scum. Basically, he's stuck between a rock and a hard place. Simple stuff.

If Rajam's scum we just have to keep an eye on who's tracking and eventually he'll slip up. But I'm against him being shot toNight because a tracker is useful, and scum will probably want him dead since we'll be directing him.

Other than that, I still want some content from Frozen but he'll likely be in the firing line tomorrow anyway, so I'm ok with dealing with him then. Same with Inferno, but Rajam's result suggests they're not malicious right now.

On an initial runthrough of the night phase in my head I don't have any real qualms with not shooting Rajam. He's a certifiable dum-dum so far this game but I'm willing to leave him if he's claimed tracker.

I'd kind of like to leverage the vig shot while we have it though if we can think of a proper way to use it. I want to say something like "Have Rajam track me and I'll shoot a non-Rajam", but that wouldn't prove anything on Rajam's part other than that he can read who died last night, or guess a 50/50 if scum still has kills. I'll talk to Orbo about it.

 

[vanderzant]

Can you keep your shot for another Night? Or is it a "use it or lose it" power?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Kary, I don't have problems claiming: I'm a tracker. N1 I missed the deadline. N2 I tracked Gangsta and he visited no one. I don't even know my character because it's from a show I'm not familiar with and I let RR pick a character for me

Do you think Gangsta is clear town because of this or is there another partner?

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Can you keep your shot for another Night? Or is it a "use it or lose it" power?

We haven't tried to keep it, but I assumed from the wording I'd lose it. Let me check our role and see if it's clear (and ask failing that).

 

[Wots All This Then?]

It seems like it's worded: "for use the next night". As far as I can tell it's implied we lose it if we don't use it, otherwise he'd probably just say "you get a one shot power" and leave it at that.

I'll send him a PM to confirm this though.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

let me finish reading, but how's this:

lynch Rake, have WATT vig themselves.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

1. Rake - [3] - Wots All This Then? (Orboknown/JDietz hydra), FrozenFlame751, PrivateJoker-Brown,
2. Soup - [0] -
3. Kary - [0] -
4. FrozenFlame751 - [1] -
5. Wots All This Then? (Orboknown/JDietz hydra) - [2] - Inferno3044, Rajam,
6. PrivateJoker-Brown - [1] - Kary,
7. Rajam - [1] - Vanderzant,
8. Vanderzant - [0] -
9. Inferno3044 - [2] - Rake, Soup,

Not Voting [0]

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Deadline is at January 11th 11:59 CST.

 

[Rajam]

Do you think Gangsta is clear town because of this or is there another partner?

Now that he claimed I have Gangsta clear just because of that + the contradiction between WATT and Rake

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Rajam, what was it that made you track Gangsta N2, as opposed to say WATT?


Regarding Rajam's results, let's not be hasty. Going nowhere does not confirm you as vanilla, or as town. I still think Gangsta-ferno is town, but Rajam's result is just consistent with their VT claim, it doesn't prove it.
This is especially the case when it's claimed someone else visited the dead body/.


@Rake: who is scum? Inferno, I take it- anyone else?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

If WATT can't shoot themselves, I don't think I want anyone vigged to be honest.

As to tracked... I'm ok with someone like frozen/PJB being tracked, both to keep tabs on them and to test Rajam's ability.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Alright, so I'm going to grit my teeth and go with the fact that lynching Rake or WATT should be uptmost priority now, concerning Rajam's tracker claim on Gangsta and the already conflicting results from WATT.

I'm leaning more on Rake if we go this route and I do not see how WATT could be scum at all. Perhaps I'm not thinking about it enough but I still hold true to what I said about them, and I don't think I'll lose sleep over losing Rake.

Vote: Rake

Rake, do you think WATT is scum?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

a) We know that Vinyl was lynched, we just didn't receive his flip until the next day. The only other explanation would be if the lynch is "abducted" for a whole phase, and then "released" the following phase by some scum power. But as I said, this doesn't make any sense with the role Nabe claimed.

b) Vinyl flipped town so this isn't the reason for Nabe's "shot" not working

c) PJB didn't die, so either he's bulletproof or Nabe was lying. Considering Rake's role claim, this is an incredibly janky assumption to make.

Given recent evidence, assume Rake is scum and is not in fact NA immune.

Is Nabe still scum? If Nabe flips town I think I need PJB dead ASAP.



On an unrelated note, WATT indy is a theory I like a lot.

Ryu tosses us six "facedowns" for the day when the day phase starts (which ironically appear to us face-up). We get to pick one of them: once we do we get a one shot night action for use that coming night phase. The roles we get seem loosely related to the cards we pick, but it's often roundabout and hard to straight guess: the only one we've been able to correctly guess ahead of time on picking was our Vig toDay. We get new cards every day, the old unpicked ones don't return.

I love how ornate their role is; they get to pick from 6 yugioh cards? So the mods came up with six different actions you could have on a given night? And they picked yugioh cards loosely related to each one? I mean, why make you guess- why not just make your ability random each Day?

Can't help thinking this really is a crazy complex role (read: likely indy), or you're just making stuff up whenever I prompt you to :D

 

[#HBC | Kary]

actually, i need to stop being lazy and re-read pjb on BW

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Ok. Apparently I just automatically read PJB as scum then. Given it's a pretty convincing performance if he is trying to distance from BW, assume he's town. That essentially confirms Nabe as scum, and leaves me looking for 1-2 more scummers.

Which leads me to WATT v Rake. WATT's claim doesn't look to add up if they are mafia, amiright? Indy maybe, but i'll backburner that for now. I don't think as indy they'd push a mislynch here, though, which suggests Rake scum.

Rake's reaction and play toDay also makes me think he's mafiosi #3

...which leaves me scratching my head if lynching him isn't game.

Gangsta maybe? Kevin? I don't know. D1 being competing waggons on scummers kinda does weird things to my reads, like making me rethink posts like Gangsta's:

BSP and Badwolf are town and anyone on those wagons should be ashamed.

Of course, it could just be indy WATT at this stage. So my thoughts right now are how do we clear/condemn WATT.

On a Rake (presumably scumRake) lynch, i'd be surprised if anyone gets roleblocked, which makes things easier. But I don't know whether shooting someone confirms anything. I'm almost wondering about not shooting tonight, and no lynching tomorrow (assuming Nabescum).

But at any rate, I probably need to stop clinging to my early game reads and playing devil's advocate. feel like it's probably time to hardbody some peeps.


would probably like Rajam alive tomorrow to track WATT again?

still, I feel like this Day is winding down.

vanz, talk to me about holding the vig shot. (assuming they can't shoot themselves)

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

whoa.

hitting this later

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

@ Vand: What do you mean by you're waiting for content from me? I think my stances on relevant ongoings are pretty clear lol

Lynching rake is a no brainer. I don't understand why we're even discussing anything else other than planning our night actions while people pile on the votes. There has to be a liar between WATT and Rake and based on what's come out from both sides on the issue, I think its pretty clear that Rake is our baddie.

Letting this day drag on is only gonna allow for people to spread FUD and second guess the obvious. Constructive planning is fine and all but I really have a hard time seeing why people haven't begun building the rake train so we can start moving forward. More votes people

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Aaand the fact that Rake hasn't acknowledged that if he's Town WATT must be scum is incredibly telling.

That is silly;

We can both be town here.

Rajam, what was it that made you track Gangsta N2, as opposed to say WATT?


Regarding Rajam's results, let's not be hasty. Going nowhere does not confirm you as vanilla, or as town. I still think Gangsta-ferno is town, but Rajam's result is just consistent with their VT claim, it doesn't prove it.
This is especially the case when it's claimed someone else visited the dead body/.


@Rake: who is scum? Inferno, I take it- anyone else?

Nope.

Just him.

Rake, do you think WATT is scum?

Nope.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

lol, Rake can go. All BSP's townie work is going out the window with Rake not behaving like himself in the slightest. You usually can't get Rake to shut up, and now we're struggling to get stuff from him? Townrake this is not.

Rake, explain the scenario where both you and WATT are town.

Also, reads.

 

[Rajam]

^ This. Rake, explain how can both of you be town. Your last post seems like you've just given up

 

[vanderzant]

Regarding Rajam's results, let's not be hasty. Going nowhere does not confirm you as vanilla, or as town. I still think Gangsta-ferno is town, but Rajam's result is just consistent with their VT claim, it doesn't prove it.
This is especially the case when it's claimed someone else visited the dead body/.

It's a fair point, but it at least confirms that Inferno didn't kill Clownbot. Thus if he's scum it probably would have to be an independent with no night abilities, which makes me feel alright with them.

Given recent evidence, assume Rake is scum and is not in fact NA immune.

Is Nabe still scum? If Nabe flips town I think I need PJB dead ASAP.



On an unrelated note, WATT indy is a theory I like a lot.


I love how ornate their role is; they get to pick from 6 yugioh cards? So the mods came up with six different actions you could have on a given night? And they picked yugioh cards loosely related to each one? I mean, why make you guess- why not just make your ability random each Day?

Can't help thinking this really is a crazy complex role (read: likely indy), or you're just making stuff up whenever I prompt you to :D

Nabe is still scum, of this I'm about 99% sure. The only other possibility is that Pjb is bulletproof (and thus scum), but this in itself is pretty unlikely because even as scum, PJB would probably claim to be Town BP. So obviously a Nabe town flip means PJB dies (again though, I highly doubt it).

WATT indy is a possibility, but they've used their abilities in a way that seems very Townie (i.e. full claiming the result on Rake toDay). I don't discount it as a possibility, but they've essentially full claimed in order to lynch what is likely the last mafia member, so they're completely out in the open now (and obviously receiving indy scrutiny) which is sort of contrary to an indy win con. We have a tracker though that can keep an eye on them, which is useful for not just toDay but whatever future abilities they receive.

vanz, talk to me about holding the vig shot. (assuming they can't shoot themselves)

I'm of this opinion as well. Assuming we've killed 3 mafia members, I don't see how shooting a slot really benefits us at this stage. Rake's future scum flip is enough to clear WATT as not mafia... the only slot I'd be fine with being Vigged at this stage is Frozen, and that's purely PoE because his slot barely has a paper trail and their slot essentially being an unknown for me due to Kevin.

@ Vand: What do you mean by you're waiting for content from me? I think my stances on relevant ongoings are pretty clear lol

Lynching rake is a no brainer. I don't understand why we're even discussing anything else other than planning our night actions while people pile on the votes. There has to be a liar between WATT and Rake and based on what's come out from both sides on the issue, I think its pretty clear that Rake is our baddie.

Letting this day drag on is only gonna allow for people to spread FUD and second guess the obvious. Constructive planning is fine and all but I really have a hard time seeing why people haven't begun building the rake train so we can start moving forward. More votes people

Well I'd like your opinion on some things other than the fact that we're lynching Rake toDay. If the scum team is BW/Nabe/Rake, who do you think could be an indy based on play alone? How do you think we should direct WATTs kills and should he shoot at all? Who would you have Rajam track? Etc.

Yes, the play is still pretty clear but assuming you're all caught up I'm interested in where you want to head after toDay, but like I said we can cross that bridge tomorrow.

 

[vanderzant]

Vote: Rake

Hammer time

It looks like Rake has just flatly given up and we're not getting anything out of him. Even though Clown's dead we might still get a 24 hour twilight if the mod wants to be consistent.

Hey WATT!: Use your shot how you see fit, but just remember that a no kill is probably a good thing to do. If you want to take a shot at a potential indy (remember, the mafia team is likely dead), just be prepared to back up your shot tomorrow with all info considered. And don't shoot Rajam.

Hey Rajam!: Use your discretion and either track WATT or someone like Frozen.

 

[Rajam]

unvote
vote: Anomandaris_Rake

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

1. Rake - [5] - Wots All This Then? (Orboknown/JDietz hydra), FrozenFlame751, PrivateJoker-Brown, Vanderzant, Rajam,
2. Soup - [0] -
3. Kary - [0] -
4. FrozenFlame751 - [0] -
5. Wots All This Then? (Orboknown/JDietz hydra) - [1] - Inferno3044,
6. PrivateJoker-Brown - [1] - Kary,
7. Rajam - [0] -
8. Vanderzant - [0] -
9. Inferno3044 - [2] - Rake, Soup,

Not Voting [0]

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Deadline is at January 11th 11:59 CST.

Rake has been hammered, 24 Twilight time!

 

[vanderzant]

@Mod: Technically Soup was vote #4 (#2026) and I was the hammer.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

@Mod: Technically Soup was vote #4 (#2026) and I was the hammer.

yep

10yeps