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Toonami Mafia - Game Over - Daytime Programing wins!

#HBC | Kary

Fiend of Fire
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How is my post scummy? What did I say in there that seems like scum trying to pull something? You want my opinion of these players? I'm pretty sure I've posted that reads list twice now. I've been operating under the assumption that they're both town. However, given the current claim situation, it seems likely (not guaranteed, but likely) that there's at least one scum between them. So what's the harm? Why shouldn't I be willing to let the situation play out, and find the likely scum? The scenario he lays out allows for my actual scumread, Rajam, to still die by bullet. Why should I, as town, not be open to this?
I'm not, like super happy about it, but one of my townreads is claiming a guilty on the other one. I'm not above being wrong. The situation suggests that one of the 2 of my reads, in this case, is wrong. Allowing it to play out would help me figure out which one it is. Knowing which one is wrong, would help me find scum. What am i supposed to do, just ignore a GUILTY because "lol, no that's not possible, because I read you both as town, therefore this situation is illogical. Ignore.". I don't love it, but it happened.
Let me be completely clear. By 'letting this scenario play out' do you mean you're fine with lynching Rake toDay, because at some point it will give you a scum?

Secondly, I would have thought that whether or not WATT is town, a Rajam shot is not going to work out. If WATT is lying, Rajam won't get shot. If WATT is telling the truth, he'll be roleblocked, or just allowed to shoot town Rajam.

p.s. Vanilla Townie
 

Shun Goku Satsu Rake

Oriwa Rake. Kaizo ko ni oriwa naru
Joined
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Rake, I find this a kinda strange reaction. What do you think of WATT right now? Are they scum faking a guilty on you, or perhaps just a townie led astray? why would it be pointless for them to make up such a result?
He's cool with me, Townie led astray seems much more likely, we already saw nabe go for me and fail, seems counter intuitive that scum would do it all again, hence pointless.

I mean, i guess you could call me flabergasted XD, I know i didn't kill anyone so logically im left with the knowledge that someone messed with WATT's "results."
 

Wots All This Then?

Smash Lord
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Psycho Mountain Island
Sure I'll claim. I'm mojo jojo from the Powerpuff Girls, VT. Does this change anything.
No, but I wanted to make sure you still claimed VT since it was a long time ago and mostly got buried/forgotten. It would have been a very easy *swish* moment if you were scum and felt compelled to lie and claim something else. Thanks for claiming.

Um, I know you're not allowed to talk about timeframes and etc., but did you receive these before or after the night ended?
Original result message came on the morning. 'Verification' of it's accuracy happened shortly afterwards. Then we drew our card for the day. We received the result of the card. Ryu informed us he made a mod error.

Everything happened after night ended, but at various times.

queue discussion:

WATT, how does the drawing of your Yugioh cards work? Please describe how you receive an ability.
Ryu tosses us six "facedowns" for the day when the day phase starts (which ironically appear to us face-up). We get to pick one of them: once we do we get a one shot night action for use that coming night phase. The roles we get seem loosely related to the cards we pick, but it's often roundabout and hard to straight guess: the only one we've been able to correctly guess ahead of time on picking was our Vig toDay. We get new cards every day, the old unpicked ones don't return.

(I'm hoping and praying us not being roleblocked N2 means Nabe was the RB'er... but if they merely picked someone else to RB it will be troublesome as you say)
 

#HBC | FrozeηFlame

BRoomer
BRoomer
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dat alleged mod error

dat lulzy kaiba JoAT claim

dat easy scum pin

Vote: Rake

Either rake is bad or our claimed watcher here is lying. Or RR is ******* modding which would be total BS.

Being able to cross check the Kaiba claim via his alleged vig certainly would help, though that's just a luxury really. If WATT is lying about the vig and claims RB'd in the future in order to cover up his inability to follow up on the claim, we'll still know eventually if he's lying based on Rake's flip. They can't both be telling the truth here. ******* modding aside, one MUST be lying.

So yeah, let's pursue dat free scum kill. And don't vig me *******s, I'm cool and awesome and lynch happy which y'all know is good for a game that was draggin its feet before I showed =D
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
Joined
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Messages
6,865
Original result message came on the morning. 'Verification' of it's accuracy happened shortly afterwards. Then we drew our card for the day. We received the result of the card. Ryu informed us he made a mod error.

Everything happened after night ended, but at various times.
In the morning? You used your action at night, correct? Usually confirmations like that happen ~before~ the game starts up again. I'm starting to think that your result was tampered with, and Ryu had to check something and noticed said tampering put on you. It might be the real report that you were given, but there is no doubt in my mind that you weren't screwed with somehow. It doesn't make sense for Ryu to mess up like that, and I don't think that was a simple error.
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
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I don't think WATT is lying, and I do not think Rake is lying either. Lynching either on the assumption of 'who is lying' is essentially unproductive and going back to the same clause as before, only that it's not nearly the same and there are much better targets to pursue.
 

Rajam

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Can someone resume me the claims so far? As you know I soft-claimed PR D2 and I'd like to know if what I have may pin scum or not
 

#HBC | FrozeηFlame

BRoomer
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Obviously there was a mod error, but assuming that the mod error was made as a result of RR forgetting about some ability that messes with watch results is definitely not a prudent move.

Think about it critically. A role that can not just mess with results, but ACTUALLY FALSIFY A VISITATION BY ANOTHER PLAYER is inctredibly powerful, not to mention incrediby rare. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen such a role in an SWF game, and I've only seen such a role two times elsewhere.

Though it is plausible that Rake's visitation could have been falsified, assuming that that is the likely cause of RR's oversight doesn't seem like the more reasonable course of action IMO. Though plausible as I said, it just seems like a stretch.
 

Rajam

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frozen do you think BSP's #354 is faked? The responses to the first two quotes seem like something scum wouldn't see, so I see that as a town tell; from that full post I also get a strong impression of a townie omgus'ing; would like to see your oppinion regarding this
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
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Not really a stretch considering redirector and bus driver's aren't uncommon and it doesn't out of place for this game either. I'm not one to mod meta but I'm not lynching either today.
 

#HBC | FrozeηFlame

BRoomer
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@ Soup: It would take more than just a bustdriver or redirector to get Rake to show up as targetting someone at night, according to what he said himself.

It's kind of impossible i went anywhere lol.
I can neither explain your results, nor am i one to take you at your word that Ryu magically decided to reverse them.

No offence.
If Rake allegedly couldn't even targeted anyone, a busdriver/redirector is NOT going to do the job of falsifying him targetting someone. You'd need a role that I've know as an artist/illusionist to get that to happen, and that's an extremely rare and powerful role. Banking on that being the cause of this claim contradiction is a HUGE stretch.

@ Rajam: What part of the post are you asking me as to whether or not it is faked? That's a big *** post and he addresses multiple players, so I'm not sure what exactly you want my opinion on.
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
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But he also said that all night actions used on him will fail.
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
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EBWOP: It was not Rake who was tampered with, rather it was WATT. I think that's the point I'm trying to make here.
 

#HBC | FrozeηFlame

BRoomer
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If you think WATT's results were tampered with, please describe to me a plausible role that would cause a watcher to not only not get the results he should have from targetting a given player, but also would cause that watcher to get a result that was completely fabricated.

In order for their not to be a direct contradictionm between Rake's claim and WaTT's, such a role must exist. You'd need a role with the power to literally completely fabricate a visit from a player that allegedly cannot even visit players at night.

When you can provide an outline of such a role and a good reason for believing it exists in this game, then we can talk.
 

vanderzant

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Kary, Nabe is almost certainly flipping scum. It's possible that he was independant, but I highly doubt this because his plan had no contingency. Even if he is indy, the worst case scenario we're facing is 3 Mafia 1 Indy and down to only 2 Mafia.

4 Mafia is NOT a possibility in a 14 man game. There might be two separate factions of 2 scum each, or 3 Mafia and a traitor, but I can confidently say that no dGames mod would approve a set up of 10 Town vs 4 Mafia with a mechanic/role that hides the lynch flips for a day. That **** would be whack.

We can reasonably conclude we're look for 1 mafia 1 indy or 2 mafia at worst. Tomorrow isn't going to be MYLO by any stretch of the imagination.
 

vanderzant

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Soup, you're being silly again.

Yesterday you went nuts at me for considering that a mafia roleblocker might be in play, but toDay you're assuming that night immune Rake was somehow framed into being the only person to visit Clownbot on the Night he died? Really.

If we assume that WATT is telling the truth (a VERY reasonable assumption to make considering we're not in MYLO/LYLO right now), look at what he's claiming:

He was roleblocked N1. That means that barring an unlikely Town Roleblocker (hint hint, if this is you, you should probably claim now!) there is a Mafia Roleblocker. Considering that BW flipped Mafia Seeker (essentially a neighbourizer) this only leaves one slot for a potential Mafia NinjaFramer Role that is able to simulataneously kill without being tracked, and frame the Town Immune in his place.

Yes, that's right. Rake has claimed Town Immune and that he didn't visit anyone last night.

What roles can actually cause a night action immune player to do things?

Bus Driver? Nope. His power would fail on Rake because he's night immune, And forcing WATT to visit someone else didn't happen either because Rake claims he didn't visit anyone.
Framer? Nope. These roles don't work that way.
Gravedigger? Possible, but a Town Immune Uninformed Gravedigger is a pretty ridiculous stretch to make.

Quite frankly, between WATT's claim and Rake's claim there is explanation where they're both telling the truth.

This means that one of them is lying.

If a Cop claims a guilty, and his claim checks out, and it's not LYLO, and there is possibly only one Mafia remaining... do you lynch someone completely different because of a read?

No.

Barring ******* modding, there is scum between Rake/WATT. So we lynch Rake because quite frankly his claim is less believable.

I'm still all ears for your Gangsta case Soup, but he's simply not a play right now.
 

vanderzant

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It just occurred to me that WATT could be an Indy JOAT claiming a guilty on Mafia Rake, but then it'd just be Persona Day 4 all over again, which I think is way too hilarious to actually be true.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

Red Fox Warrior
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NNID
RedRyu_Smash
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0344-9312-3352
1. Rake - [2] - Wots All This Then? (Orboknown/JDietz hydra), FrozenFlame751,
2. Soup - [0] -
3. Kary - [0] -
4. FrozenFlame751 - [1] - Rajam,
5. Wots All This Then? (Orboknown/JDietz hydra) - [1] - Inferno3044,
6. PrivateJoker-Brown - [1] - Kary,
7. Rajam - [2] - Vanderzant, PrivateJoker-Brown,
8. Vanderzant - [0] -
9. Inferno3044 - [2] - Rake, Soup,

Not Voting [0]

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Deadline is at January 11th 11:59 CST.
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
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I don't think you understand. I'm not saying Rake is the one who is framed, rather it is WATT that has been given false information. He is not immune to such actions and I just find the way how everything unfolded to be so unbelievable. If we lynch Rake, it is only because it would be beneficial to figure out if such a role does exist.

Do you think WATT could be scum, lying?
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
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I also don't understand why WATT would do that, trying to get rid of Rake. Either he's taking advantage of the 'revolving door' mechanic or there is a misunderstanding that we don't know about. His claim did not feel forced and rather genuine, even considering to out himself. I think that's actually pretty important if I look back on it, considering how WATT was crumbing it early on into the day.

WATT, I assume when you were crumbing, you were given the correct information by Ruy?
 

vanderzant

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No I get that Soup, but how can WATT's results possibly be altered so specifically? For starters, he was only a watcher for one Night.

What is the likelyhood that there is a role that can change a Watchers results to make them see a specific person? Better still, what would this role be?

Unless there's a Mafia role that is also a JOAT specifically to counter WATTS role every Night, and they somehow decided to mess with WATTs role specifically... yeah.

At this stage I think it's VERY unlikely that WATT is making this up. I agree with your #1983.
 

vanderzant

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WATT Watches Clownbot
Redirector Targets: Watt to Visit Soup

Result: WATT sees Rake visit Soup

Remember that Rake claimed he didn't visit anyone, AND that he can't be affected by night actions.
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
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You have a point...but we're gonna have to ****ing wait a day to get anything out of this at all...
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
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I don't really want to make a Gangsta 'case', and I feel like points I've already made hold weight to them. I don't know what I really need to re-assure to people and why a need to go more into is necessary, seeing how there isn't much there in the first place.
 

#HBC | Kary

Fiend of Fire
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Then today RR said he made a mistake... (****?). Now we've been told that actually: Rake visited Clownbot. Well that's obviously impossible since he claims his role is NA immune and doesn't visit people, so he couldn't have been taken there by outside forces and he certainly didn't float on over to Clownbot during the night for a good time unless he's got hidden parts of his role.
Were you explicitly told that 'Rake visited Clownbot'? Because this gives you more information than i'd typically expect, i.e. it confirms that your target wasn't messed with etc.

He's cool with me, Townie led astray seems much more likely, we already saw nabe go for me and fail, seems counter intuitive that scum would do it all again, hence pointless.

I mean, i guess you could call me flabergasted XD, I know i didn't kill anyone so logically im left with the knowledge that someone messed with WATT's "results."
So you're confident he's not scum. How do you think he might have been led astray, given his results?

Why do you call them his "results"? Do you doubt that is what result he got?

I should also mention that the problem is WATT's results say you visited someone; whether you performed a kill or not is kinda moot because your claim suggests you can't visit.


I don't feel like clearing WATT on the basis that it's too soon to be faking a result like this. I don't really have a problem with them right now, though, so going to let Rake get back to me. Also would like to hear from PJB.

/Karytimes
 

Rajam

Smash Champion
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So there is scum between WATT and Rake?

unvote
vote: Wots All This Then?


soup trust me Inferno is not the play / not scum

Someone pls pls make a post with a resume of all the claims so far
 

#HBC | Kary

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  1. BSP/Rake claimed immune to all night actions D1
  2. Soup; nada
  3. Vinyl flipped Town Doctor
  4. Kary; nada
  5. BW flipped Mafia Seeker
  6. KevinM; nada
  7. WATT; claimed Town Gambler D3 (JoAT style role)
  8. PJB; nada
  9. Rajam; claimed PR D2
  10. IR flipped VT
  11. Vanz; nada
  12. Gangsta claimed VT (D3?)
  13. Clownbot flipped Town Hero (Can have 2nd lynch/Day)

I think that's everything
 

vanderzant

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I honestly don't understand you this game Soup. It's one thing to be trying to scum hunt Gangsta or convince Town they're scum, but it's something else entirely to just propose we lynch them over a confirmed scum scenario, and then when asked to re-explain because people don't agree with you, decide not to.

Can someone resume me the claims so far? As you know I soft-claimed PR D2 and I'd like to know if what I have may pin scum or not
Inferno claimed VT
WATT claimed JOAT
Rake claimed night immune
I think that's it

@Kary: I agree we can't rule it out, but Rake is still the better option.
 

Rajam

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  1. BSP/Rake claimed immune to all night actions D1
  2. Soup; nada
  3. Vinyl flipped Town Doctor
  4. Kary; nada
  5. BW flipped Mafia Seeker
  6. KevinM; nada
  7. WATT; claimed Town Gambler D3 (JoAT style role)
  8. PJB; nada
  9. Rajam; claimed PR D2
  10. IR flipped VT
  11. Vanz; nada
  12. Gangsta claimed VT (D3?)
  13. Clownbot flipped Town Hero (Can have 2nd lynch/Day)

I think that's everything
Gambler? Details of that? actions WATT took past Nights?
 

#HBC | Kary

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@Kary: I agree we can't rule it out, but Rake is still the better option.
I hear what you're saying. I don't want to end the Day right now anways.


Which reminds me. Who would WATT be shooting tonight- opinions?

If the plan is to shoot Rajam, what do people think to having him claim first?
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
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I honestly don't understand you this game Soup. It's one thing to be trying to scum hunt Gangsta or convince Town they're scum, but it's something else entirely to just propose we lynch them over a confirmed scum scenario, and then when asked to re-explain because people don't agree with you, decide not to.



Inferno claimed VT
WATT claimed JOAT
Rake claimed night immune
I think that's it

@Kary: I agree we can't rule it out, but Rake is still the better option.
We don't get anything until another phase has passed, for one. And two, I am trying to get gangsta lynched. It might not be a neat case like you all want me to, but I can't see myself going to that length because it's plainly obvious why I'm leaning that way and I don't feel like repeating myself over and over. Is there anything that you need clarified for my dislike of them? No? Yes? What?
 

Rajam

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Honestly WATT's role sounds mad indy; is also consistent with his lack of hard postures D1 and (slight) disconnection with BadWolf. His crumb is weak in the sense that he only crumbed character which could perfectly be just a safe claim.

vote: Wots All This Then?

If WATT flips town or indy we know BSP is scum. I don't think he would be lying as indy regarding his claim of his watcher result, because it would be risky with a Rake town flip. On the other hand, if we lynch Rake and he flips scum, we may give WATT a risky clear.

Kary, I don't have problems claiming: I'm a tracker. N1 I missed the deadline. N2 I tracked Gangsta and he visited no one. I don't even know my character because it's from a show I'm not familiar with and I let RR pick a character for me.

Nonetheless, I'm not ok with dying, because if WATT is indy and he kills me, I'm concerned that the lack of my track may give him enough time "cleared".

Need to think more about the best course to follow but on 1st impression I think it's risky to let WATT alive.
 
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