Toonami Mafia - Game Over - Daytime Programing wins!

[#HBC | Joker]

Inferno, you need to start posting on Hydra. I think we can all understand and forgive a few slips, but you seem to be posting exclusively off hydra during this entire day phase.

 

[Inferno3044]

But his play was bad and he should feel bad already.

I ALREADY WANT HIM LYNCHED TODAY. I'm not going to feel any different after he says "I don't know what happened, they aren't dead: Honest"

Can you give me 5 bullet points explaining why Nabe is scum?

 

[Gangstalicious]

Posting on the hydra account on request. I will offer myself to be lynched if WATT hammers. If this happens, then I will accept my spot.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Well in my version of this, you're the hammer vote. Simple change.

And if our normal vote hits scum/when he claims roleblocked/when I flip town?

Because they would then be in risk of dying. You can't possibly be this dense.

They're not at risk of dying if Nabe is dead when they're done. Nothing is forcing them to keep their vote there if the push peters out.

Can you give me 5 bullet points explaining why Nabe is scum?

Have you read up? I'm in the middle of a re-read with Nabe's claim in mind to decide how I feel on the matter, but the main point for NabeScum is how badly he handled his supposed role and his behavior the last half of the day.

 

[vanderzant]

I read up but god this thread is so much **** and I have a headache. I see a deadline extension so I'll give my thoughts when I feel better.

 

[Gangstalicious]

How so WATT? He had to play scummy enough to get votes or somehow convince someone to hammer vote without claiming. I had a role very similar to this and I played the same way. Also I prefer direct answers to my questions instead of your little deflections.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

How so WATT? He had to play scummy enough to get votes or somehow convince someone to hammer vote without claiming. I had a role very similar to this and I played the same way. Also I prefer direct answers to my questions instead of your little deflections.

That's just it: he didn't have to play like that. He already outlined a plan where we force people to vote him/hammer if he claimed. Even if he didn't want to claim there's a certain point where you stop killing yourself on purpose so you don't have to claim. I just can't see him doing this all intentionally and thinking he was better serving town than just waiting for someone he deemed scummy to hammer or naturally end the day voting him. Town only has so many people left eventually, it seems like he could have just waited.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Thus: I've gotta re-read until I know how I feel again. It seems like it's coming down to "Nabe did you really think this was a good idea?"

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Ai'ght after reading Nabe's contributions only today I think I only have a few questions for him... after that I think I'll be good.

Vote: WATT

Unlike BSP I'm going to substantiate this

You never did get to this... I'd like some explanation on why you thought it might be a good idea to vote me without actually substantiating later.


That plus these:

Kidding, right? The one thing I've made abundantly clear is that I'm not posting content tonight, don't you think?

This is enjoyable and all, as I love it when some ******* talks about me as if I were already dead. But someone else scummy needs to vote for me so I can claim.

Considering I've done next to nothing toDay, that's actually flatly untrue.

It's really confusing that you've set out to antagonize me for some reason (about as confusing as Rake's vote not being on me despite expressing suspicion towards me) but not particularly bothersome.

I'd like to wake up to being L-1. Let's avoid L-0 though? Toodles.

I know for this to make sense you must be equating the maximum possible people on your wagon = good... but why did you feel the need to do this? I understand if you're being truthful you were trying to attract scumspects to your wagon in hopes they'd stick around... but why do it so late in the day like you did, and why try so little to produce other wagon options that you thought were fruitful?

If you were going to make the idea that you could leave a few hangers-ons voting for you at the end of the day to have a pool you could lynch work, you needed a lynch that wasn't you to pull through too. Why stay inactive and snarky instead of pushing once a few people put a vote on you? If you did it right maybe some people would have lingered on your wagon, but as it was we were barely making ends meet on any given wagon let alone a half finished one on you and a complete one on another. Was that what the WATT vote was supposed to be for? Was I supposed to be the token real lynch that went through to enable you to vig? Because if it was I don't see why you continued with the "I hope I'm at L-1 tomorrow" attitude when the people on my wagon had already started to join yours, you knew it was coming to claims... why do it?

 

[Wots All This Then?]

EBWOP: to have a pool you could vig

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I thought I would get around to substantiating, I thought I would get a chance to pursue something this Day phase, I thought I would find time. Didn't pan out. Johns.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I'm glad you understand my point of view instead of me pulling teeth. I know you've wanted Rajam for a long time too, and that could be a good lynch too. Hell, I wonder how Nabe would feel about lynching Rake today instead of just shooting him?

That's where my vote is.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Why wouldn't they. They win no matter what happens after that: If he shoots at mafia and block him: they don't die and Nabe looks bad. If he shoots at town and they block him oh well they still have the Nabe thing to fall back on next day where we'll probably get nothing done but discuss "Should Nabe go?" all over again while they still get their normal kill.

Uh, no. If mafia has a roleblocker, and I aim at a townie, they'll let the kill go through to get a free town kill, and call me an SK if they want me lynched after that.

But think. My role is already self-balanced by its restrictions. Clown has claimed a powerful day-role. There is no mafia RB.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

@Mod request votecount

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Like there is a line, and hell i'm not crazy about Nabe's claim, personally i hate vig roles because scum can so easily fake claim them.

No, they can't. The only indy that can fake vig is SK. Mafia can't fake vig, because mafias only get the one kill every Night between the group.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I'm seeing Rajam's name a lot, am I missing something there? I thought he was just inactive.

 

[Clownbot]

I think Rajam's inactivity is reason enough to lynch him considering how far behind he is. Looking past that though he's made a softclaim that I can't see not being bull****, sheeped Kevin's vote under an agreement that Kevin didn't even keep up his end of (despite showing very strong opinions on WATT yesterDay that would indicate a willingness to vote for his own lynch picks), has shown incredibly few stances with actual explanation behind them, and has generally been useless to town. Plus lynching Rajam would potentially help with discerning some other people's alignments despite the lack of connections he has, most notably WATT whose likelihood of being town would shoot up on a scumRajam flip.

Still waiting for soup to respond to my last post as I continue to be a little mystified by his argument. Guess I'm being thick. Also, Rake, you didn't respond to my #1557.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

why is this game already 45 pages long

why are there no flips that I can find

why is the deadline set for new years day when ill inevitably be omega tier hungover

allofmywhy.jpg

imma start trying to catch up now. but seriously if someone could explain why I can't find any flips (or why there actually aren't any if that's the case) I'd be hella appreciative. also being caught up on any general going-ons would be coolz too

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Soup, let me just get this straight. I'm sure you already feel like you have a lot on your plate with WATT but I need to clarify something.

1. You acknowledge that if Nabe is town scum can easily frame him.
2. Because he is easily framed, Nabe is made to appear to be scum toMorrow.
3. We lynch scum.
4. This would make it nigh-inevitable for Nabe to be lynched toMorrow, even under the presumption that scum won't vote him.

Do you agree? If not, detail what points are incorrect and how.

Apologies about yesterday, I was mad tired and I didn't want to fall behind. Now that I've gotten some sleep, I'm more prepared to answer sufficiently.

1. Yes.

2. No. Stick with my plan and have him shoot someone town would like to get shot. The fact of a roleblocker existing or not existing is moot considering we shouldn't be looking at it like that. I want to have Nabe do more than just drop dead because we'd rather speculate over why he did it. His play makes sense to me and I'm not lynching him based on said play. Keep it simple.

3. Maybe. Like I said, I'm not damning Nabe on his play today and I do not see the benefit of lynching him, he can act pro-town by shooting who we want him to, and also we gain more information as he has nowhere to hide anymore. What don't people get about this? Even if he's scum, he's deliberately diverting attention from his partners, as I was trying to point out earlier. I'm not going to consider this alternative right now, but if I think Nabe slips up based on his play then i'll look into it more.

4. You're giving him too much doubt. I don't doubt Nabe and the more people talk to me about saying his lynch is 'inevitable' makes me feel like I'm not posting for any reason. How is his lynch inevitable? We're going to throw away a whole face to test a claim because you're all too paranoid? I'm not letting that happen.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

That's where my vote is.

Oh. Do you agree with my plan?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'll update the OP with flips later, been forgetting about this.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I'll make it easy for ya.

Badwolf flipped Scum (Modkill)
Vinyl went missing (D1 Lynch)
Inglorious ******* flipped Town (N1 Kill)

and that's where we're at.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I'm a nice guy, why would I lie about this ?

I love you.

serious responses incoming.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Long story short, gut says Nabe dies ASAP.

Vote: Nabe

Kary, people have been talking about how scummy they found MiR since before I replaced in, and since the start of toDay people have mentioned my lynch in passing as if it were a foregone conclusion. There were enough votes promised to do so.

I asked you at what point it looked like your lynch was inevitable.

You're telling me 'people disliked my slot before I replaced in' and 'people were talking about lynching me'. If you want my opinion, tough ****. Maybe you are damn busy, but you're not doing a lot to convince me that you were forced into this situation, that you could do nothing to avoid it.

Me self-voting was absurdism at Vand's expense. See: the Australia post. It's by way of verbal taunting because everything that comes out of his mouth is bat**** insane. That anyone found that scummy or even notable defies description.

I had thought you were self-voting to get people's attention. Now you're telling me we should think nothing of it? No, i'd rather not downplay one of the few notable things you've actually done.

I'm not sure why you suggest pushing Rajam, since I haven't commented on him at all. You're supposedly telling me what I should have done from a town perspective, lol. Lying about my reads and pushing someone else in place of me doesn't fit.

My point is that you have options. Apparently you're too busy to push your scumpicks, but you're not the only person being considered for the lynch. Are you claiming because you were in the firing line, or is it that you'd rather claim than push a lynch on what is presumably a null slot?

of course, this is all post-script given my vote on you. sure as hell not going to be swayed by the potential utility of your role, anyhow.

---------------------------------------------------

His play makes sense to what he claimed, and I literally cannot comprehend why Nabe would think, as mafia, that this was a good idea. The point of the hypothetical 'safe-claim' would be to not be divert attention from him, rather the complete opposite. If Nabe has a partner, he is sacrificing himself for the sake of hiding his own. For that matter, mafia has no reason to get involved. Do you understand??

of course his play makes sense. if he's mafia he can claim literally anything he likes, so he might as well make it something that fits his play.

I can give you two good reasons why Nabe would do this as scum;
#1 he's a bomb.
#2 it lets him control the flow of the game; he is able to make people talk about his role instead of anything else.
#3 if he makes it through two lynches without dying, momentum will be such that it will be an uphill struggle to lynch him later.

What is with this "it's hard to prove" nonsense? It's super easy to prove this. Let's say we want WATT dead. Just have WATT hammer the vote or have him vote Nabe. It's really not hard.

#1 roleblock
#2 we're having a hard enough time deciding on two lynches for toDay. two lynches AND a vig shot, given the restrictions involved in setting up that vig shot? To me that's all way too rushed, or likely to end in no lynches.

Pretty surprised people don't want a chance at two lynches in a row.

arguably great on any Day except toDay.

Gangsta has already 1) claimed VT and 2) shown willingness to die.

he's town

I'm starting to come around to the idea that it's incredibly impractical for Nabe to have planned this out.

please elaborate.

Inferno, you need to start posting on Hydra. I think we can all understand and forgive a few slips, but you seem to be posting exclusively off hydra during this entire day phase.

I can tell from this post you have your priorities all set.

3. Maybe. Like I said, I'm not damning Nabe on his play today and I do not see the benefit of lynching him, he can act pro-town by shooting who we want him to

providing the person we want to shoot agrees with the plan.


for reference/with regards to multiple lynches, my lynch pool right now is:
Nabe, PJB, Rajam, WATT (more or less in that order)

 

[#HBC | Kary]

alley-oop, s'il vous plait

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Elaborate? I dont' think it requires too much elaboration. It's pretty simple.

Why would he play so terribly as scum? Is he just... terrible scum? All the thread's attention is on him right now. That's hardly optimal scumplay.

Like soup already stated, he has no place left to hide. If we keep him around another day, and he just continues being worthless anti-town, he no longer has any excuses. On the other hand, if he becomes useful town, he's an asset. One we avoided losing.

Personally, I'm ok with a Rajam lynch if we're keeping Nabe around another day. My Nabe>Rajam lynch pool is not upset by being changed to Rajam>Nabe.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

of course his play makes sense. if he's mafia he can claim literally anything he likes, so he might as well make it something that fits his play.

I can give you two good reasons why Nabe would do this as scum;
#1 he's a bomb.
#2 it lets him control the flow of the game; he is able to make people talk about his role instead of anything else.
#3 if he makes it through two lynches without dying, momentum will be such that it will be an uphill struggle to lynch him later.

1. I don't believe such speculation on him being a bomb.
2. No, you're wrong. I'm only letting Nabe live because I want him to do more than just that, we can use it as a pro-town asset and even scumhunt off of it. Somebody claims a gun, and you know that they mean business. Some people believe him, some don't. We are already in the process of information hunting because of this, and we will gain more dependent on what he does with his role.
3. That's a huge burden and you're not looking at it like Nabe is just a normal player like anyone else.

providing the person we want to shoot agrees with the plan.

Thus, we get information off of this and things to go on. Why is he against it? Does Nabe agree with it? etc. I can't believe you don't understand this.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

you said it was impractical for Nabe to have planned this out... how is it impractical?

apparently it's terrible play from him if he's scum, but apparently you're clearing him on that basis, when beforehand you were voting him (and wanting to start a waggon on him, if I recall). To me that reads more as inspired scumplay than terrible.

at what point exactly is Nabe going to run out of excuses? you could argue he ran out earlier toDay; why give him the benefit of the doubt toDay?

and in what way exactly is Nabe likely to become useful town? Do you think his role is beneficial? Is this just the same point as 'he may not be useless down the line'?

i disagree that this is pretty simple. let's not over-simplify.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I'm not clearing him though. I'm simply letting him live another day. I just showed you my lynchpool, it has two names in it. One of them is Nabe's, he just got bumped down a spot.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

(points why Nabe would do this as scum)

for the record, i don't think i'm going to be able to persuade you. i'm just stating my opinion so it's there.

Thus, we get information off of this and things to go on. Why is he against it? Does Nabe agree with it? etc. I can't believe you don't understand this.

I agree that it would create information. But I think that information would be more trouble than it's worth. For instance, how are you going to decide who's the hammer, as well as who's lynched? What do you do in the event that a player refuses to vote Nabe? To me this just adds layers of complication that make it easier for scum to exploit players.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I'm not clearing him though. I'm simply letting him live another day. I just showed you my lynchpool, it has two names in it. One of them is Nabe's, he just got bumped down a spot.

my apologies. you saying 'he wouldn't play this terribly as scum' just sounds like you're pretty confident he's not scum.

also, since it looks as though there will be two lynches toDay, you bumping Nabe down one peg does absolutely nothing.


there were four questions in my post. just letting you know.

 

[vanderzant]

Not moving my vote off Nabe until he posts some reads with some freaking substantiation.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

It's impractical because HE made HIMSELF into a target. A smart player would not do this. We would have to assume he was sloppy enough to become a target for no reason, but smart enough to wiggle his way out of it with a clever claim.

Thing is, if he doesn't follow through on his claim, we just lynch him anyway. I'm fine with that. Personally I don't care who he shoots. If we get more than one nightkill, and he claims one of them, he's clear, and we avoided a mislynch. If all we get is a mafia nightkill, then "bye bye Nabe, I was gonna lynch you yesterDay anyway". Not really a loss.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

• Nabe replaced into the slot
  
• maybe he had a plan, doing this as scum?
  
• you should care who we shoot!
  
• we lose a Day, and have to find someone else to kill!
  
• having Nabe clear is worth him shooting a townie? (given scum know how to avoid his shot)

Kary does bulletpoints

and headdesk combo

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

I love you.

serious responses incoming.

~<3 Call me

 

[Jdietz43]

Uh, no. If mafia has a roleblocker, and I aim at a townie, they'll let the kill go through to get a free town kill, and call me an SK if they want me lynched after that.

But think. My role is already self-balanced by its restrictions. Clown has claimed a powerful day-role. There is no mafia RB.

Unless someone is going to claim Town Roleblocker I'm telling you there is.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Unless someone is going to claim Town Roleblocker I'm telling you there is.

Dangit, I was so good at this yesterDay. Twice in a row.

 

[vanderzant]

There is one major problem I see with the plan of leaving Nabe alive and directing his kill. Assuming Nabe is Town and his ability is true:

Mafia can simply No Kill and put us back in the exact same dilemma we face toDay.

If tomorrow we wake up and only have one night kill, AND it's the person Nabe said he'd kill, what are we supposed to believe? How do we tell what happened? Did Mafia No Kill, or was Nabe Roleblocked/Redirected? Or is Nabe simply Mafia? Who ****ing knows, and it puts us in the EXACT same situation that we're in toDay (not knowing whether or not Nabe is legit).

Lynching Nabe toDay and losing a vig is bad because Town loses a vig shot that we could of otherwise directed... However mislynching Nabe tomorrow is a LOT worse because it eats up a whole extra lynch and puts us closer to LYLO/MYLO, and we aren't any closer to figuring out Nabe's alignment. This does not even take into account the possibility of Roleblocker's/Redirectors and a whole stack of other Mafia abilities that can take advantage of a claimed town power role.

It's not as simple as "If Nabe doesn't play ball he's confirmed mafia and we lynch him" and we should NOT treat the situation as such.

I could go into details on the claim and how it fits in with Nabe's play, but really there is no solid evidence to suggest that this can't possibly be a desperate ploy by Mafia.

Playing devil's advocate here:

1. There was no vig crumb on Day 1. If we had a post where Nabe or Make It Rain SPECIFICALLY crumbed vigilante, or heck even Wolverine, I'd definitely be inclined to believe them... but frankly this crumb is not enough for me to think Nabe didn't just make this up.
   
2. A lynch abductor/janitor and a vigilante that works dependent on the flip. From a mod standpoint I see this as a questionable design choice.
   
3. "Mafia wouldn't claim vigilante" There was only 1 kill on N1 and apparently claiming vig around here means you don't get lynched. Hell yes they would.
   
4. The timing and circumstances of Nabe's claim. It came out of a lack of pressure and necessity as he was not confirmed as a lynch. Why does Town Nabe need to make the game about him a few days out from deadline? Why couldn't he just not claim and request that a certain person hammer? Why not simply play the damn game like a normal person?
   
5. The necessity of him self voting to "garner" votes. Does he not realise that people can just unvote after his claim? Why couldn't he just claim and then ask scummy people to vote him or hammer? This was pretty much just an attention grabber. Why though? I don't understand.
   
6. All his lynch picks are based on set up speculation or are not substantiated.
   i) WATT - Not talked about at all
   ii) RAKE - Based on his role being taken from Super Heroes Mafia and the name being different
   iii) PJB - Based on his "kill" failing on PJB last night.
   He's made literally NO effort to give us reads of any kind.

 

[vanderzant]

Oh hai WATT. Tell me if there are any holes in my post. I don't think there are though.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

I thought I would get around to substantiating, I thought I would get a chance to pursue something this Day phase, I thought I would find time. Didn't pan out. Johns.

That was the worst response I could think of, you didn't even try to give me a late answer or explain what your plan used to be before it flubbed (would have been better than nothing). I was all ready to give you a second chance and you just **** all over it by still not caring. Jesus Christ Nabe, you can't be this bad.