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I can't help but feel his AtE outburst felt like frustrated InfernoTown more than InfernoScum (I still remember a game where Inferno got quick lynched D1 and was super mad about it and it seems a bit like what I'm seeing now), and it's making me question the Gangsta direction a bit.
). The fact that you're bringing up a "must abduct X lynches to win!" win con is a pretty laughable way to support your push on Kary. Occam's razor bro.
No really, since he responded the question a little later. Just wanted to pressure RF so he wouldn't get away by not responding to stuff
Stellar defense, but BW was already making obvbad posts when you got on him. Have you seen what I've had to say about you independent of your interaction with him, PJB? That's not the only thing I dislike you for.
Will look into this.
Fantastic.
My outburst was more of a "**** you WATT. You're scum. Die" type of tone. I'm just really sick of him reaching and trying so hard to manipulate everything I do and say. So I'm ready for him to take the noose.
debateable.
could both be town. but w/e. i'm not really feeling Rajam, but...
g...goddamnit. That lines up a lot less efficiently to me now. I didn't like RF but I like vanz. I don't like Nabe, but I was fine with MiR :/
why you so busy all the time.
And of Kary? (I know you're still waiting on me to churn out my synopsis, but field that when I'm done)@Watt: I don't feel like trading walls so I'm going to try and make this short (hard though because you ask so many questions).
I honestly get town vibes out of Gangsta's AtE, but like I said I can't ignore his previous play. He was my no.3 pick for a lynch on my reads list and in spite of the AtE, that's probably where he still sits for me.
What do you mean by "you've been prioritizing other lynches as to how you've been reading Gangsta." All I've really said is that I don't think you and him are scumbuddies. His slot doesn't really change you/Nabe being my prioirities for toDay.
Yeah, I know that one got screwed up in grammar. It was supposed to be a sentence asking how you've been reading Gangsta and that I was interested because you were prioritizing other lynches and hadn't talked about him much yet. I saw the question that got lobbed to you about how you were feeling on his AtE initially drop and wanted to hear your thoughts (which you have done above now). Instead it came out stupid and mangled with the reasoning for me asking shoved in the middle of the subject of the sentence.
I clearly explained why we gain more from eliminating the scum team than an indy who can't night kill (No more Night Kills!
Fair enough that if all of Mafia is gone and Indy doesn't have a night kill people should stop dying, but I'm not taking it for 100% surefire granted that that will hold up in the real game. We don't know if Vinyl was really scum yet so we might have two to bag before we're kill-less, plus we only have speculation that Indy doesn't have a night kill in the first place vs. night action shenanigans (remember: we already have someone who claimed full night action immunity). Furthermore if Indy truly doesn't have a kill, I'd expect the win-con for victory to be easier to obtain than other Indy roles, I can't help but feel like we may be under time-pressure and at the very least really stand to benefit from clearing out the flip hiding (which is a pretty good chance of being an Indy's doing)
Hydra excuses are literally the lamest thing ever but eh. Not much I can do but stand by my points.
Same really. It sucks, but that's what happens sometimes, I'm still waiting for Orbo to come back so we can touch base more.
Understand that your slot has labelled both Nabe and Gangsta as potential mafia members (I'm not making this up). I'm just interpreting what I see. Truth be told I did miss your #1360 so it makes a bit more sense, but again I'd like to see some expanded reasoning. Why does Gangsta's Town read of BW make them scumbuddies? And why is Nabe more likely Indy than Gangsta?
The suspicion of Gangsta came from the fact he seemed like he didn't want anything at all to do with the wagons which we found suspicious and worthy of investigation. It doesn't make him auto-scum, but it makes him a good candidate to look into when BW is confirmed scum. We saw where that went: first he looked way worse, then lately maybe not so bad if only for one outburst.
You still didn't explain what it is about Kary's play in this game that makes you think Indy, there has to be something more than just meta considering how adamant you've been on this.
Whipping up my 10 cents on why we were wary of Kary (lolpuns) is my next agenda item to crank out. The condensed version is I got the sense from early play that he was looking out for #1 and that gave me Indy vibes; I'd love to have had possible mafia connections to analyze for the slot but the people he replaced didn't do anything and for the most part Kary stayed out of the BW vs BSP thing as he had just replaced in.
If we were to make a mafia possibility case the most solid thing would be that Vinyl rote said Kary was "gut-town" despite his slot having never posted which seemed obviously fake, one of the reasons we didn't mind him kicking the bucket. That'd have to assume a Vinyl scum flip and that him faking a read on that slot in particular rather than just in general was indicative of something: which is kind of a stretch. I think the important thing to realize is I'm just trying to be helpful when I make distinctions like "Probably Indy" for us to make decisions with, they're not central to the cases on why people are scumspects and overall they're mostly feelings. If you're hoping for me to lay down some really concrete stuff on why anyone is one flavor of scum over the other I probably can't give you much better than a footnote and some gut feelings, but I'm trying to at least explain the gut feelings I do have.
And if you have differing opinions or your heads aren't in sync, it'd probably be swell to tag your posts or use different font colours. And don't tell me to get my head screwed on when you two seem to have a different opinion on just about every player
... You mean Nabe? That's the only player I think we're not in tune with each other on afaik.
I've explained why I want to lynch Nabe. I'd still be down to lynch him regardless of your flip, but I'd also take a good look at Inferno if you flipped Town, based on your interactions with them. I'm not really sure why I said Rajam their earlier (more like I'd look into Rajam more).
@Gangsta evaluation: Already happening.
He doesn't show interest in responding to me either way.
I'm not going to try and pretend to guess his intention. Gangsta, would you lynch Nabe today?
Behold, Kary's opening post in all it's explanatory glory. No content? Not even words? Must be scum! (I kid, I kid...... mostly)
****, ok. I know Kary can come across as animated but this is his first post with any merit even and he's already yelling in rhetorical third person (that's usually reserved for when he's sunk his teeth into an argument). Pushing RF on it's own isn't a shady action (though in this case not likely to develop anything, keeping in mind the BW/BSP debate ongoing), but screaming down people's necks like this: Kary must be really sold on his current direction and leading up to some conversation opening up about it.the **** wrong with you sister, you see my legitimate analysis and you don't take anything from it?
why would i be joking about radfic when it's a entirely real possibility? push on you to establish that they're 'pro-town' in trying to obtain reads, could very easily be fake given the manner in which they're trying to pull thread power and then leap to reads. Repeated referral to the manner in which they need to discuss their reads is unnecessary and smacks of stalling; could easily be them attempting to coast out the day as they see how the BSP waggon develops, safe in the knowledge that despite being a top tier poster they're not going to take the blame for that lynch. I mean how is this stuff not obvious/? you just look at their posts and sniff whether they seem legitimate, and the answer is, no, they seem a little forced, let's pile a little pressure on here and see what happens.
Or y'know, indulge ourselves by whining about how bad everyone else is at mafia, which seems to be the meta around here at the moment.
Oh and why didn't I appeal to anyone to join me in my crusade, i don't know, maybe something to do with having about 0% interest in this game so far becauase you're all running round in circles achieving very little. page me when you want some stone cold analysis and the swag that accompanies it. i'll be out back under the pretense of smoking a cigarette.
The slashes return again? And I know you're likely wondering at this point "Why are you bringing this up, does it even really matter?" Well, yes. I've found on introspection when thinking how to best sum up why I have Kary as a scumspect that one of my main problems with Kary is I don't feel like he's been genuine so far this game. Hopefully when you're done with this overview you'll understand why, but this opening here he sits around and posts slashes instead of content was the first occasion where red flags went up that Kary might not be playing it straight in his posting intent.
Very next post, praise for a pro-BSP point. This grinds my gears, all of them: Does Kary even care here? No. It's a hollow question: "Tell me who's scum?". Why not read and form your own opinion, hell actually ask someone in particular to back up their stance on a scumspect, continue pushing the RF vote you threw out with immense gusto, anything but ask a rhetorical question to nobody twice while still maintaining neutrality by quoting both opinions as being of interest but not elaborating or researching on either side.
Ah, well that will shed some light on the issues. By now our slot has pointed out that the answer to "Who's scum?" might be Kary if he doesn't stop fence sitting and asked him to get serious, and I'm personally on alert that Kary is acting weird.
Which is then immediately overshadowed by these posts where Kary decides he just wants both of BSP and BW to claim without actually talking about the issues himself beforehand.... or even making a public read.wow IR your case looks boring and bloated
and then you go and steal my sign-off phrase
WATT?
how badly do you want to lynch BW toDay
who else are you looking at?
gotta run
Well we're 11 posts in out of 86 total made my Kary, so we've covered 1/8th his content so far... I hope I'm not off base here when I say it's been less than stellar. Let's keep going and see how it looks when he 'picks up':
So here Kary first addresses the fact we're really pissed he's been coasting entirely. His response is to basically tell us to go eff ourselves for wanting him to play the game, and stating he could have just continued posting "\\\\\\\\\\\" (see why I quoted those ones earlier?). He states asking for claims is scumhunting, which is blatantly untrue of his play so far, then makes a joke(?) about being a doublevoter and therefore being a clear, something he indeed was not. So cool, that went over really well imo.wow.
Orbo sez in quote: "Kary-stop claim fishing when you haven't done **** and ****ing scumhunt already."
you phrase this as though you know i'm town, is that intentional?
also, you act as though me asking a slot to claim isn't scumhunting. pretty sure if i wanted to do nothing at all this dayphase i could coast through posting //////, so i don't see what the big deal is.
you'll notice that i'm a doublevoter, and as such i'm more or less cleared as town. so there's no need to worry about my slot, nor is it worth trying to mislynch me. Right now i'm happy to watch the Day play out without pushing things particularly, if i come to regret that later i'll let you know.
Really really helpful and townie.
Some content finally sneaks it's way out. It's an interesting note that gets discussed briefly in the following quotes, which mainly consists of Soup disagreeing about Kary's opinion that Gangsta's J post reads town. IR chimes in shortly and him and Kary get into an argument that soon makes the notion a wash: Kary wanting a tibit of info and IR wanting Kary to read (a legitimate complaint wrapped in a stubborn and pointless gesture). You can read it if you want, but for the sake of the fact I've literally quoted every Kary post so far I'll leave out their one liners back and forth here.
"I don't see what the big deal is in me not having town intent, or not even trying to do townie things."but i'm town either way. right now i don't have a lot to offer, i don't really see what the big deal is, especially after you mislynched me in the wall.
no, i was much more fishing for reactions than i was claims, and i don't want to argue about the benefits of asking for claims. I also don't know how I was being 'quiet' in my push for RadFic, but whatever.
i guess i did it just to fish reactions then.
hiinteresting
blah blah blah blah blah
seriously considering putting you on ignore
well this is interesting. hmm.
No, that's fine... unless you want anyone to take the anti-WATT stance you're about to take seriously. Don't mind that little tiff with Soup you're about to have where you vote him, that was just filler? I'm going to just post this in it's unedited glory because it seems to illustrate my main concern that Kary doesn't actually care pretty well. Soup posts a brief list of who seems to be okay with what wagon wrt BW vs BSP and asks for people to help come to a consensus on who everyone all is okay with lynching since we're approaching deadline, imo an admirable persuit. Kary doesn't like it though, and instead wants Soup to shut up and stop encouraging conversation (which makes NO sense considering Kary hasn't found an alternative, nor has been looking for one, so why would he be against people having their lynch candidates down?):
If you're currently confused how Kary got from voting Soup, to asking Soup why he won't be on BSP when he hadn't had a stated opinion on BSP before, to voting WATT all in one go: you aren't alone.
Bravo Kary, you sure pinned us and our non-stance taking ways while we push BW, state we think Vinyl is connected to BW (Note: This becomes something Kary argues with us about later in recent posts.), and have public beef with your current game so far. Because you've done so much more to substantiate your own involvement as seen above in every contribution you've ever made.
Strange, I have the same opinion about your slot. I can't shake the feeling you've been floating around looking for a target to waste your time with so you don't have to contribute but still look mildly active. From here on, Kary's game can be summarized in this way wrt his weak push on my slot while pushing other issues to the side. This is the point I want people to get out of this wall if they get anything: I don't feel like Kary is actually trying to look for scum, he's trying to look for the easiest way to get by without looking like he has no direction at all. For a long time he couldn't find a direction to fake until he got himself involved with pushing my slot, which he milked out until the day ended and continued once he had the "maybe he bussed BW" angle to work off of. He's done all these things in the meantime, putting out one liner theories, discussing with my partner and I, low-balling the other scum possibilities out into thread: but he never does anything but just sit on his WATT vote and look pretty. You can see it even in his latest post, he makes a hypnosis where he states "maybe scum is hiding?" and "maybe Nabe?", then sits on his WATT vote anyways. I feel like after Rajam came in and voted us because he's Rajam, Kary saw this opportunity where he could make a bad push on us and stay there with things like arguing over who quoted Vinyl etc. so he wouldn't have to really contribute, and if the stars were right maybe even lynch a townie who has some meta knowledge on him and who had been pushing the BW lynch that turned out to be correct since there was some suspicion brewing on the slot for possible bus intent.nah i'm not trying to scare you. if anything i'm trying to explain how I think you're scum so people will get on board.
i'm not trying to say that you don't have direction; i just don't think you're trying to develop your reads, you're just voting whatever looks easiest to lynch.
and i'm not trying to say that a compromise is scummy; i just don't think that's what you're doing, because I don't think you actually care which one of BSP/BW goes.
yes and if being anti-town meant he was scum i'd be all over his case. But I just made this exact point against you, that you're bringing up surface-level 'bad' things badwolf has done, and calling him scum based on that, apparently without trying to actually read him for intent.
that's right kids, kary might be scum! please
you mean that game where i made an effort to make a good entrance, and to ask lots of pro-town questions? given that you don't like my 'act', how have you made an effort to actually push a read on my slot?
i'm really enjoying this argument with you because i know i'm not the one who's going to scumflip. but then you probably knew that
Ugh. Damnit, Nabe. Why are you being so stubborn? Why won't you let me read you?