Toonami Mafia - Game Over - Daytime Programing wins!

[#HBC | ѕoup]

@Soup: Wrt IR being the night kill, BSP Scum would certainly be someone who'd want IR gone.

Can you point me to a page number for recent arguments against BSP? Because there haven't been any today so far.

You also mentioned that Town BSP is generally a lot more active and would be in here commenting on things. Can you talk about this meta a bit more? I haven't played with BSP before so I most likely just an inactivity thing rather than pressure (considering he weathered the whole IR storm).

It's kind of explained in my response to rake. That's the general idea and I forgot about responding to you about this. I don't recall Nabe's reasoning to a tee, but mine really is just meta. I know it's not the best way of determining alignment, but some people are more obvious than others. Players like BSP don't have enough experience yet to understand this concept, which is why it's easy to look at him that way. I even do it for more experienced players, but not nearly as much.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I'm most interested in Gangsta, hence my current vote.

This is better. I've been bluntly skimming.

Be back later, and I'll be deciding my vote pretty soon. Nabe, don't let me down.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Everyone give me a read on the Rake slot and if you feel that his recent posting has been damnable or creditable. I want to make it clear if it comes between WATT/Gangsta, I'm voting Gangsta also. If anyone ask details, I'll oblidge.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

By the way, with your reads, how does my flip effect your Nabe read ?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Because he's pretty damn hard on your slot right now, and dependent on this flip I'll have a better insight as to why. Nabe's a good player, but he's a good bull****ter. The consistent push on you doesn't make sense, but I feel regardless of alignment, your flip would help. Nabe will sit on your deliberately just because he can, and nobody will turn a blind eye to it.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

EBWOP: everybody will turn a blind eye*

I'm getting tired.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

soup I am so ****ing sick of reading your posts, even when you have all your ducks in a row you're for the most part talking to yourself

i'm not saying you're doing nothing, i'm saying that 5/6ths of what you post is irrelevant and a waste of time. what exactly would you trying to humiiate me achieve in terms of actually getting scum? because i'm thinking it would be nothing, just the same as you threatening to do so.

the worse ****ing part is that *I* end up posting nothing - like this very post - in an effort to get you to change, and waste both of our time. I'll just have to put you on ignore eventually.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Irrelevant to what? Everything I say is very relevant because there should be a common reason to find scum, no matter what means of doing it. I'm doing just that, and if you don't like how I operate, then deal with it.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Clownbot will replace Joey and due to holidays and personal issues I'm moving the deadline to later than the 26th soon.

 

[vanderzant]

Lol read WATTs ebwop, I totally missed that last night (blame headache.) My bad, ill respond to the rest later. Still not a fan of this slot.

Soup, don't just skim Kary's posts, what he's saying about WATT I agree with a lot. Regardless of that read though I'm pretty much not down to lunch him at all. Especially since WATT is trying to pin him as Indy. Like, seriously, I have no clue at what parts of Kary's play are survival based, or any standard indys tells. He can't possibly be making this distinction.

About rake... I don't see much wrong with his play so far. Again Bsps defences just felt genuine which why I'm just mega curious to how Nabes convinced he should be the play.

@Nabe, MiR just looked like an incredibly confident bus on bW to me. There weren't that many connections that I recall, my issue with your slot was more how he was reaching conclusions.

I'm a sucker for AtE but I'd still prefer Nabe/watt over gangsta regardless.

Rajam/pjb really need to let us know where they stand

 

[Clownbot]

Swell.

I haven't gotten my Role PM yet but if I do soon then expect a post from me by tonight. Already read through the game and all.

 

[KevinM]

Post now then before you get your pm.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Clownbot replaces Jeoy

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Because he's pretty damn hard on your slot right now, and dependent on this flip I'll have a better insight as to why. Nabe's a good player, but he's a good bull****ter. The consistent push on you doesn't make sense, but I feel regardless of alignment, your flip would help. Nabe will sit on your deliberately just because he can, and nobody will turn a blind eye to it.

What am I, marshy? I don't hold clout, I can't just sit on a lynch until it happens. Considering I've made little argument towards a BSP lynch so far, "he's a good bull****ter" is just senseless FUD from you.

I'll be here tomorrow.

 

[Clownbot]

Early RFvSoup could be TvT but the way it took over the thread discussion really struck me as I was reading. RF was focusing exclusively on soup during it and then he just brushed it off as “milking” the situation. Felt to me like diverting town’s attention, if for a short period of time. This doesn’t give the playerslot major scum points but I thought it was something of note.

Don’t like PJB very much and I absolutely feel like if there was a bus on the BadWolf bandwagon he fits the bill. To give a complete summary of his play so far: Attacking BW (generally very opportunistic at that), playing rather abrasively in some posts but making no real attempts at scumhunting. Doesn’t take strong stances unless they’re pretty easy i.e. BW, looking at what he’s said about BSP and Rajam/WATT interactions.

There are sooo many things I don’t like about Rajam.
-He has been flying under the radar for the majority of the game.
-His posts are barren in terms of content.
-He calls out WATT on not taking stances when hardly any of the stances he’s made are explained. Yeah, this whole parenthesizing deal does not constitute a legitimate explanation.
-He was asked to expand on his WATT read – the strongest stance he’s taken in the game so far – and essentially blew it off with what looks to me like an excuse. If you feel that strongly about someone being scum why not take the chance to point out how they are?
-Narrowing my eyes @that “softclaim.”
Has anyone still alive played with Rajam before? A second opinion on what IR said about him yesterDay would be appreciated.

Vote: Rajam
Do you feel the same way about WATT as you did yesterDay? If so then please point out recent posts of his to support your suspicion. I don’t mind waiting a little but when you do post I’m expecting something of more substance than what I’ve seen so far.

@Vand: I don't have a scumread on WATT but I think the points you make about the possibility of a BWATT scumteam are interesting. That being said, I never found PJB’s interactions with BW to be particularly convincing and if you could go into more depth on how you’ve written him off as “confirmed” not scum with BW that’d be great.

@PJB: People are calling your play aggressive but lately it seems like you’ve been quite content to sit on the sidelines. If you’re really town and you want to win this game, convince me. I’d like concrete scumreads and sufficient explanation for them, as you have yet to provide any toDay.

Celebrating Christmas with the family today, I'll probably be back again later though

 

[Clownbot]

Conflicted on whether to use my ability toDay, really wish Joey hadn't claimed it so hastily.

 

[Clownbot]

I find nothing scummy about BSP/Rake's actions but that BSP claim is incredibly bothersome, it'd just be a huge safety net for a scum to claim and I don't believe either of them ever claimed a role name.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Goku from Dragon Ball Z, Toonami Immune.

 

[vanderzant]

@Soup: I was thinking over this last night but I realised that BSP/Rake might definitely fit the indy bill, irrespective of that claim. Until I noticed WATT was calling Kary indy, I hadn't really given much thought to indy hunting (and however still don't think we should go down this route at this stage).

BSP's defence against Gheb did read genuine to me (and it's possible he was just busy town) but it's very obvious how defensive and concerned with his own survival he was. It's pretty much been the bulk of his play. It's also possibly why I didn't see a very scummy connection between him and Badwolf.

Something I'll definietly keep in mind I guess.

 

[vanderzant]

Clownbot ill show you what I mean about pjb as I probably have to bring up some quotes to show it.

Off the top of my head though its mostly to do with the fact that bad wolf mod killed himself suggests his responses to pjb/soup were legitimate and not scum distancing.

Also, Christmas etc. so I might be busy with family stuff over the next couple of days

 

[vanderzant]

@Clownbot: Consider the PJB/BW interaction that starts around #679 (page link)

Consider BW's rage and that from his posts it appears that he just doesn't want to deal with PJB at all.

It's not a ****ing case. It's what I think happened. You really do need to read better. Stop looking at what's on top and read into it for God's sake.

I'm sorry that I don't understand how to read into a ****ing sentence. You are the bane of my existence right after soup.

The very idea that you suggest that I don't understand what I am suggesting for you to do. Instead of just saying that I'm wrong, actually try to use your brain. The only thing that I want you to do is actually use your powers of deduction instead of just throwing out accusations that I literally cannot argue against.

I'm not even going to bother giving myself the migraine that it would take to get you to understand anything that I'm trying to. Vote me if you wish.

Sorry I refuse to hurt myself physically to try and make you understand.

Consider the fact that he modkilled himself. This in in itself is telling that BW's emotions were legitimate and he wasn't "faking" them to lead town in the wrong direction. I mean, he modkilled himself as scum. He would know the consequences of his actions and just how heavily they would disadvantage his scum team.

So we've established that BW simply didn't care for the consequences of his modkill, right? I think it's fair enough to conclude from this that during the events leading up to it, the last thing on his mind would be "how can I manipulate this in order to help my faction?"

I mean, if it was all a ruse and just well crafted scum distancing, why wouldn't BW just go along with the bus play it out. It's clear he simply did not care at all about playing towards his win con, and thus I'm willing to read his anger as genuine as opposed to clever scum play.

And even if the idea of "I'll scum distance with PJB then modkill myself, clearing Soup and PJB... brilliant!" did cross his mind, that's a pretty disrespectful thing to do to a game.

/replace out I can't ****ing stand any of you people.

PBJ you can die. Actually use your ****ing brain. Holy **** you remind me of the stupid kids shows that have to explain every ****ing detail for the *******.

Soup needs to take some ****ing calming meds before he blows a ****ing blood vessel.

WATT you need to actually start caring.

RF thanks for being one of the voices of reason. Keep being smart.

One last post to show his anger towards PJB (and additionally Soup).

 

[vanderzant]

It just occurred to me that a night action immune independent who is able to abduct/janitor the lynch in order to obtain a safer/realistic fake claim is an absolutely baller role idea and I'd definitely use it in a set up. Assuming that they don't have a night kill, it's kind of balanced because the doesn't have to worry about being killed by mafia.

Food for thought I guess.

Spoiler

Sorry for the multiposting >.<

 

[vanderzant]

@Clownbot: I agree Rajam has been incredibly barren in terms of content (only 19 posts; with only 2 toDay and zero content). He really needs to evaluate not just his WATT read but preferably his entire thoughts on the game thus far.

Also, what IR/gheb said about him catching up not being indicative of alignment is 100% true. I can personally recall at least 2 instances of him being town and doing it, (one of the games being ongoing, so obviously can't talk about it).

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Watch as the game Vandy puts that role in, the person who rolls it gets lynched D1

 

[vanderzant]

My indys and/or cool mafia's always get lynched Day 1 . 3/3 iirc.

Btw Rake, what do you think of Inferno's outburst? Does it affect your read at all? Have you seen Inferno pull something like this in the past?

 

[Clownbot]

Oh yeah, there's never been any doubt in my mind that BW getting himself modkilled was genuine. That's something you just don't do as simply an act and this is pretty much inarguable. Having said that I feel like some of BW's frustration might have actually resulted from a scum bus (I vaguely recall someone else mentioning this possibility but I'm not sure) and even though his frustration's not an act it's very doubtful he's gonna let on who his teammates are. Not intentionally at least.

Well ain't that about a *****.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

I've only ever seen Inferno the once, and in FF8 the pressure wasn't to the poitn it's gotten to here, so no, that i remember i've never seen inferno throw around AtE.

It doesn't effect my read that much tbqh, Inferno throwing his hands in the air and going "well fine then kill me " as opposed to sucking it up and fighting for what he's saying makes me extremely hesitant to buy any of the AtE he's selling.

Why, did you find his frustration legitimate ? I'm going to preface this and say i have a strong dislike for AtE on principal, because it's easy to fake it, the fact that Inferno was the one posting it is about the only thing causing me to pause , as i know for a fact scum J likes to play up AtE.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Cbot, let's make Rajam invisible for a second, whos next on your scum totem poll an why ? Is it PJB, why is his sudden swap into a more passive play-style telling to you ?

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Also, what would a rajam scum flip do to your reads, i dont' care if you have a specific direction or not , but where do you think you would go if Rajam was lynched and flipped mafia, would it effect any of the reads you laid out (or any of the ones you didn't, as your large post was essentially 1.5 scum reads with a little bit of what i think is a null on my slot).

Who do you trust most and why ?

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

My indys and/or cool mafia's always get lynched Day 1 /QUOTE]

i'd be in this game so fast

/thread

 

[vanderzant]

Oh yeah, there's never been any doubt in my mind that BW getting himself modkilled was genuine. That's something you just don't do as simply an act and this is pretty much inarguable. Having said that I feel like some of BW's frustration might have actually resulted from a scum bus (I vaguely recall someone else mentioning this possibility but I'm not sure) and even though his frustration's not an act it's very doubtful he's gonna let on who his teammates are. Not intentionally at least.



Well ain't that about a *****.

I guess I just don't really see someone getting that worked up over a bus.

I agree that a bus is very likely considering how bad some of Badwolf's posts were (e.g. him claiming scum), however I just don't see Badwolf getting worked up to the point of modkilling himself and saying "**** you" to his scummates, if they were indeed bussing him. If Soup or PJB were his scum mates I definitely feel he would of at least played it out until he'd been lynched.

I'm more inclined to think that if his scummates bussed him, they're more likely to be someone who was on Badwolf's case early, but whom Badwolf particularly ignored or didn't say much about (i.e. WATT and Make It Rain in particular).

In particular, Make It Rain who said some incredibly on point things about Badwolf's scummy play yet decided to go with the BSP wagon at the time, and then later shifted momentum to BW after his play presumably started going to ****. I talked about this in my big catch up post (see if you agree).

I've only ever seen Inferno the once, and in FF8 the pressure wasn't to the poitn it's gotten to here, so no, that i remember i've never seen inferno throw around AtE.

It doesn't effect my read that much tbqh, Inferno throwing his hands in the air and going "well fine then kill me " as opposed to sucking it up and fighting for what he's saying makes me extremely hesitant to buy any of the AtE he's selling.

Why, did you find his frustration legitimate ? I'm going to preface this and say i have a strong dislike for AtE on principal, because it's easy to fake it, the fact that Inferno was the one posting it is about the only thing causing me to pause , as i know for a fact scum J likes to play up AtE.

Ok. I didn't say I find his frustration legitimate, I just said I'm a sucker for AtE sometimes and have been burned from it before. It is a thing however, and thus I don't feel bad trying to get reads out of it. I don't like the idea of "well just lynch me guys and then here's some advice" but I've seen countless town do this before. It's always going to be in the back of my mind I guess, however I can't just ignore gangsta's previous play.

A funny thing about this is that I realized that in J's one post, if he was town he was probably reading BW as town due to AtE, which actually could make sense and say something about his alignment. I guess I gotta think about his slot more. I still think regardless of the AtE that Nabe/WATT is a better direction.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Ok. I didn't say I find his frustration legitimate, I just said I'm a sucker for AtE sometimes and have been burned from it before. It is a thing however, and thus I don't feel bad trying to get reads out of it. I don't like the idea of "well just lynch me guys and then here's some advice" but I've seen countless town do this before. It's always going to be in the back of my mind I guess, however I can't just ignore gangsta's previous play.

A funny thing about this is that I realized that in J's one post, if he was town he was probably reading BW as town due to AtE, which actually could make sense and say something about his alignment. I guess I gotta think about his slot more. I still think regardless of the AtE that Nabe/WATT is a better direction.

Ah, i think you misunderstood the intent behind the question, you being a "sucker" for AtE is inconsequential to me, i was just wondering if , when you read that you went: "That;s town frustration" or what have you, sorry for not making that more clear(im eternally doomed to ask un-clear questions apparently) .



I know your AtE pain btw, seems like swfTown is ready and willing to commit slot suicide in order to go : "welp you were all wrong. " , which is extremely unfortunate

Anyways wrt to WATT, i did find one part of Inferno's defence to him really rung a bell to me, wrt WATT stretching his case(in particular the part about asking for clarification from the mod thing ) as when i read thar part of WATT's blurb i just went : "well nope thats a null tell".

I'm in the process of writing a Nabe blurb, after that though I think I'm going to take a crack at WATT, could i trouble you to give me your thoughts on it after i have it up ?

 

[vanderzant]

Ok @AtE stuff.

Gangsta asking the mod for clarification is definitely the nullest of tells, and WATT playing it up to be scummy is definitely weird. In fact, I think it's been a large facet of his play this game. Another example is him finding Nabe scummy for his set up speculation and word choice. Again, something that is certainly null at best, unless he can prove Nabe is posting from a position of set up knowledge that someone with half a brain and access to mafiascum wiki and DGames Archice couldn't of come up with.

I actually think Kary touched on something similar (why I'm advising Soup and anyone who might of skimmed his walls to actually read the content), or if not null tells specifically, the fact that WATT has been pushing weird connections/theories.

And sure, I'll definitely give thoughts on your Nabe/Watt blurb.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Deadline being pushed to the 30th for other Holiday things going on, far as it will go.

 

[Clownbot]

Cbot, let's make Rajam invisible for a second, whos next on your scum totem poll an why ? Is it PJB, why is his sudden swap into a more passive play-style telling to you ?

It's not just that he's less aggressive, PJB hasn't done **** lately. He's mostly popping in to answer questions posed toward him and, like I said earlier, he's not taking any strong stances. He hasn't provided a single scum read D2 unless you count that jab he made at Kary which he tried to support using the NK. I see what Vand is saying regarding BadWolf's reactions to PJB but his performance in this game, for all the people touting it as "aggressive," still leaves a lot to be desired. He's not generating any discussion.

Also, what would a rajam scum flip do to your reads, i dont' care if you have a specific direction or not , but where do you think you would go if Rajam was lynched and flipped mafia, would it effect any of the reads you laid out (or any of the ones you didn't, as your large post was essentially 1.5 scum reads with a little bit of what i think is a null on my slot).

Rajam flipping mafia would support my town read on WATT, the possibility that he's bussing is there but IR said Rajam doesn't do that as scum and his play in general gives me the feeling that his read on WATT is definitely not a bus. He also voted for Radical Fiction early on, but that doesn't affect my read on Vand as much as it would WATT because his stance was a lot weaker. I think it would be beneficial to examine players he hasn't discussed in the case of a scum flip, because I’m sure there are a few. I also don't like his buddying Kevin but I don't know yet whether that makes Kev more or less suspicious upon scumRajam flip.

Who do you trust most and why ?

I want to say Vanderzant. He's probably the player I have the most experience with this game and so far Vand himself hasn't given me any reason to believe he's scum. I'm just wary of the playerslot in general though, first it was the Ryker/Swiss hydra and from what I've seen Vand is far from bad at playing scum. I was on his team in Cartoon Cartoons and we won that game. (It was a pretty long time ago so don't expect me to go all meta on him.)

Why are you interested in who I trust?

Also, just as an additional note regarding Inferno’s AtE: We already had one scum give up. This makes me feel more like he’s being genuine than otherwise. I think Inferno’s experience at the game is also a good indicator; how seasoned is he of a mafia player? If the answer is "not much" then I wouldn't go for a Gangsta lynch toDay.

 

[vanderzant]

Hey Clownbot I'm not sure if Joey ever clarified but do you have to "use" your ability before the lynch or can you use it during twilight?

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Why are you interested in who I trust?

It's mainly a wifom question tbh , usually "newer players" (i'm assuming your new to mafia here, correct me if i am wrong) , are pretty reserved on trusting anyone.


It's not telling really, hell , maybe your trust scale is very low on all these player's and vandy tops it.

Really i was more interested to see a) If you answered b) How you'd answer.

By the way, Rajam sheeping Kevmo, telling in your opinion or not ?

 

[vanderzant]

Clownbot is actually a fairly old face. He started the same time as me or maybe even earlier.

Pjb needs to get his priorities right and give us a reads list instead of arguing in the sign ups thread :-(

Also, wii u browser ftw :->

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

well then

 

[Clownbot]

My role PM specifies to use the ability during Twilight. And yes, the entire doublevoting relationship between Kev and Raj is ridiculous. I like that Kevin stepped back in a recent post of his and questioned Rajam about it, but on Rajam’s part it looks really murky. He’s shown himself to have strong reads as with WATT on Day 1 so we know he can use his vote effectively. And to my recollection the only thing he gets out of the deal is that he’s kept from getting lynched – bad reason for town to make any agreement imo.