Toon Zelda Support Thread: Hope Springs Eternal

[n88]

Yeah, I've seen it theorized that Toon Sheik was just there because whatever little data they had for Toon Zelda was copied over from Zelda proper. That's what makes the most sense to me, given the problems I have with the idea of a Toon Sheik.

 

[TheMysterious2634]

Oh and btw the reason I have this icon w/ a Toon Sheik on it is because I could not find a good with Tetra and Toon Zelda on it. If someone could find one, I would be much gratitude.
EDIT: Oh well I'll just use this Medli/Toon Link one for now until I find a good one.

 

[Curious Villager]

Oh and btw the reason I have this icon w/ a Toon Sheik on it is because I could not find a good with Tetra and Toon Zelda on it. If someone could find one, I would be much gratitude.

Well there are quite a few drawings out there with Toon Zelda and Tetra together. Though I can't say I've seen any with them both together in a fighting pose. I might draw the two of them together if I have more time.

 

[TheMysterious2634]

http://www.deviantart.com/art/Newcomer-Tetra-and-Toon-Zelda-191973001
For all those wonderful Toon Zeda/Tetra supporters, here is something I found while searching for a good icon.

 

[Curious Villager]

There's plenty out there I'm sure, though do be sure to ask the original artist for permission first if you can as a number of them don't tend to like it if their work were just used without their permission, or at least provide a source. Just giving a heads up. ^^

 

[TheMysterious2634]

There's plenty out there I'm sure, though do be sure to ask the original artist for permission first if you can as a number of them don't tend to like it if their work were just used without their permission, or at least provide a source. Just giving a heads up. ^^

Yeah the two that I've used so far I got permission.

 

[pupNapoleon]

1) But we already have Zelda! Why would Sakurai include another one?

We also already had Link, and Sakurai decided to bring in a second one. I'm not sure of his exact logic, but if I had to guess I would say that he wants to include both the older, more popular version of Link, and a younger incarnation, as Link actually appears as a youngster far more often than not. Whatever his reasoning, he thinks it's important to have both an older and a younger version of Link. And I think that same logic could easily be extended to Zelda; after all, she's in much the same situation as Link, since the two are always the same age. I won't claim to know exactly what Sakurai thinks about the Zelda franchise, but Toon Link opens the door to Toon Zelda.
.

Whoa, that bolded part is a BIG illogical step that I canot seem to follow you on. The same logic should be used to say there should be two Zeldas as Two Links? No, I don't think Link deserves two spots if Mario only gets one (there are how many different SPINOFFS of Mari- forget individual characters who are essentially the same anyway... especially as the differences could be attributed to games moreso than different Link across the ages. Hell they likely wouldve been the same character if it didnt make the story incomprehensible on a large scale. Most casual players think they ARE the same.)
But Link has another version. So why does this mean Zelda should" We have yet to even play as Zelda in a Zelda game. That argument itself seems to win out for me... does she really need any more playable spaces? We don't have any solid proof towards the 'forbidden seven,' for all we know they were included simply to be found and start more rumors. It could mean anything. It therefore can be read as meaning nothing.

 

[n88]

Whoa, that bolded part is a BIG illogical step that I canot seem to follow you on. The same logic should be used to say there should be two Zeldas as Two Links? No, I don't think Link deserves two spots if Mario only gets one (there are how many different SPINOFFS of Mari- forget individual characters who are essentially the same anyway... especially as the differences could be attributed to games moreso than different Link across the ages. Hell they likely wouldve been the same character if it didnt make the story incomprehensible on a large scale. Most casual players think they ARE the same.)

I think you missed my point a bit there. I'm not arguing about whether or not we should have two Links or two Marios or seventeen Pikachus. I'm merely pointing out that having an older and a younger Link is important to Sakurai. If Melee's Young Link and Brawl's Toon Link didn't prove that, then Toon Link being confirmed for SSB4 so early on certainly does. Sakurai wants two Links and it's not because he thinks Link is twice as important as everyone else; it's because that's how he thinks the series and character are best represented. From there, I don't think it's much of a reach that he would feel the same way about Zelda, since she's in very much the same boat as Link as far as multiple incarnations.

But Link has another version. So why does this mean Zelda should" We have yet to even play as Zelda in a Zelda game. That argument itself seems to win out for me... does she really need any more playable spaces?

We did get a Zelda-possessed Phantom in Spirit Tracks, didn't we? Never did get around to playing that one. Anyway, I don't know about need, but I think Toon Zelda is a plausible inclusion and would be really neat. She's certainly not the same priority that Link and Toon Link are, but she's very much on the table.

We don't have any solid proof towards the 'forbidden seven,' for all we know they were included simply to be found and start more rumors. It could mean anything. It therefore can be read as meaning nothing.

The Lizard Illuminati that controls Nintendo assures me this is untrue.

 

[Linnc]

I hate how people say she would just be a clone, because she wouldn't. They based Melee Zelda off of her magical abilities and what Link can do as well as what is available in OoT as magic. Toon Zelda isn't very trained in magic therefore she'd probably use was in the game and maybe a little magic.

 

[The-Power-Within]

I'm all up for this. I'd take any Toon character I could get, plus Tetra would be bad***.

 

[n88]

I hate how people say she would just be a clone, because she wouldn't. They based Melee Zelda off of her magical abilities and what Link can do as well as what is available in OoT as magic. Toon Zelda isn't very trained in magic therefore she'd probably use was in the game and maybe a little magic.

She wouldn't have to be, but I'm fairly sure she would be. Toon Link's a clone, so Toon Zelda would almost certainly be a clone. Sakurai works in mysterious ways, but he does adhere to some basic self-consistency. No worries, though. It looks like Sakurai's got the clone train a-rollin' for SSB4.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

With the Phantom being a Zelda moves, I said that Toon Zelda was impossible. But now we have Lucina.

Having a clone change everything. The Phantom was initially something against Toon Zelda; now I think it increase her chances a bit.

 

[Curious Villager]

I don't believe the Phantom was ever something that worked against Toon Zelda. It could have actually supported her potential inclusion more. As she would most likely wind up a semi clone of Zelda. So most of the stuff she would get, Toon Zelda would most likely get as well. I guess giving Zelda the Phantom Slash could potentially have been a way to keep Toon Zelda a bit consistent to Zelda while still making sure she gets something that is a bit well known for her specifically.

I wonder if they would tweak it a little to make her enter the Phantom itself and then make her attack. Making it unable to be reflected and all compared to Zelda's Phantom Slash but still working more or less the same as Zelda's. (Not to mention showing those pink eyes she gives off whenever she is controlling them.)

But yeah, with the confirmation of clones/semi clone newcomers being a thing once more and with the return of Toon Link in the game. Not to mention Toon Zelda being planned once before in the Smash series. She has a realistic shot now.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

If she's in, I'd expect her to be kept secret pre-release.

 

[Scamper52596]

It came to my mind that the Wii U version of Smash 4 hasn't shown off a Toon styled stage yet. I was thinking it's very possible that it could be being held back in order to draw attention away from the idea that a new Toon representative for the Zelda franchise could join the roster. That of course being Toon Zelda, or maybe even Tetra. We know how secretive Sakurai can be, and right now it seems that most believe that if we get a Zelda newcomer, that character is going to be from Skyward Sword. Maybe Sakurai is just trying to divert attention away so that we don't expect a Toon newcomer?

 

[Curious Villager]

It came to my mind that the Wii U version of Smash 4 hasn't shown off a Toon styled stage yet. I was thinking it's very possible that it could be being held back in order to draw attention away from the idea that a new Toon representative for the Zelda franchise could join the roster. That of course being Toon Zelda, or maybe even Tetra. We know how secretive Sakurai can be, and right now it seems that most believe that if we get a Zelda newcomer, that character is going to be from Skyward Sword. Maybe Sakurai is just trying to divert attention away so that we don't expect a Toon newcomer?

Perhaps. Though if we look at the two games as a whole. Skyward Sword, Spirit Tracks and a bit of Ocarina of Time 3D seem to be getting the most attention so far, what with stages, Items, Smash Run enemies and in Zelda's case. The Phantom Slash.

I have been thinking of the possibility of seeing Ganondorf's castle as a stage for the Wii U version. You know, the area where you had the final battle against Ganondorf in the Wind Waker. But yeah, it could very well be that whatever new Zelda character we get may also come along with a brand new Zelda stage that hasn't been revealed yet thus said Zelda newcomer doesn't necessarily has to be someone from Skyward Sword. It could very well be a stage based off Wind Waker HD with Toon Zelda or Tetra as the newcomer or a newcomer from a different Zelda game.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Hey guys, according to this list, how would Toon Zelda's moveset be classified? (hybrid classes are possible):

Zoner - Character whose strength lies in forcing their opponent to stay in a certain area. Ex:

Ranger - Character whose strength lies in their ranged attacks to force opponents to keep their distance. Ex:

Speedster - Character whose strength lies in their speed and ability to overwhelm their opponents with relentless attacks. Ex:

Trickster - Character whose strength lies in a quirky moveset that is hard to predict and can alter the battle field. Ex:

Bruiser - Character whose strength lies in devastating attacks to quickly finish off opponents. Ex:

Resistor - Character whose strength lies in super armor that allows them to tank hits to strike down opponents. Ex:

Puppeteer - Character whose strength lies in overwhelming opponents with relentless attacks stopping opponents from striking back. Strength in numbers. Ex:

Juggler - Character whose strength lies in being able to string combos together to finish off opponents. Ex:

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

I guess she would be Zelda's Lucina.

Basically, a easier Zelda without sweetspot, but way weaker. So not exactly bruiser (Zelda is a kind of bruiser, afterall), more an all around character.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Toon Zelda having even shorter limbs, probably being weaker than Zelda, and lighter to really doesn't bode well for a well-balanced character.

So, we better take Impa.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Toon Zelda having even shorter limbs, probably being weaker than Zelda, and lighter to really doesn't bode well for a well-balanced character.

So, we better take Impa.

*Looks at Toon Link and Link in Brawl.*

Yeah Toon Zelda would be really bad.

Hey guys, according to this list, how would Toon Zelda's moveset be classified? (hybrid classes are possible):

Zoner - Character whose strength lies in forcing their opponent to stay in a certain area. Ex:

Ranger - Character whose strength lies in their ranged attacks to force opponents to keep their distance. Ex:

Speedster - Character whose strength lies in their speed and ability to overwhelm their opponents with relentless attacks. Ex:

Trickster - Character whose strength lies in a quirky moveset that is hard to predict and can alter the battle field. Ex:

Bruiser - Character whose strength lies in devastating attacks to quickly finish off opponents. Ex:

Resistor - Character whose strength lies in super armor that allows them to tank hits to strike down opponents. Ex:

Puppeteer - Character whose strength lies in overwhelming opponents with relentless attacks stopping opponents from striking back. Strength in numbers. Ex:

Juggler - Character whose strength lies in being able to string combos together to finish off opponents. Ex:

Toon Zelda would be the Speedster/Juggler version of Zelda.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Toon Zelda having even shorter limbs, probably being weaker than Zelda, and lighter to really doesn't bode well for a well-balanced character.

So, we better take Impa.

You seems to forget that Zelda already use magic to gain range.

 

[Diddy Kong]

You seems to forget that Zelda already use magic to gain range.

That has never helped her before.

 

[Curious Villager]

I'd imagine her to be a speedier alternative from Zelda. I can see some of her kicks being replaced by more alternative magic or Wind Waker esque explosive attacks.

I think she'd be more like Link's Toon Link than Marth's Lucina. Shorter, speedier but also a weaker and floatier alternative from Zelda. However, she makes up for it by performing her attacks quicker than her more realistic counterpart.

 

[n88]

I'm with Mr. WeirdChill here. On paper, it seems like Toon Zelda should be weaker (in a general sense, not just less damaging), but Toon Link's Brawl performance casts some doubt on that theory.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

That has never helped her before.

What I mean is: If Zelda can, why Toon Zelda would have a bad range?

 

[Diddy Kong]

If Toon Link sets a trend, Toon Zelda would also be lighter, smaller, floatier, have less range, and be overall weaker. Zelda is already badly designed, and despite some speed buffs in Toon Zelda, I expect her not to be much better than Zelda herself. Who has also been reported in the demo as the worst character yet in Smash 4. So take that as you want.

I also think 3 characters who are Zelda in essence is major overkill.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

That's the Legend of Zelda after all

And personally, I don't care if she "bad designed" or "stated as the worst character of the demo". Zelda is my favorite character, and my favorite moveset by far.

Like Marth, I do think that she is the kind of character that could receive a "beginner" version.

 

[Curious Villager]

I'm with Mr. WeirdChill here. On paper, it seems like Toon Zelda should be weaker (in a general sense, not just less damaging), but Toon Link's Brawl performance casts some doubt on that theory.

Toon Link has performed really quite well in Brawl and he seems to be doing not too shabby in Smash 4 either from what I've heard from some Toon Link players.

Anyway, I haven't really asked around yet by how Zelda's performance was compared to Brawl. All I know is that she's apparently still bad but "how bad" compared to Brawl I don't know yet...

 

[WeirdChillFever]

If Toon Link sets a trend, Toon Zelda would also be lighter, smaller, floatier, have less range, and be overall weaker. Zelda is already badly designed, and despite some speed buffs in Toon Zelda, I expect her not to be much better than Zelda herself. Who has also been reported in the demo as the worst character yet in Smash 4. So take that as you want.

I also think 3 characters who are Zelda in essence is major overkill.

Zelda is bad because she is so slow and tall.
Toon Zelda solves both of these problems.

 

[Scamper52596]

I don't really think that there's much of a problem with three different Zeldas on the roster. Zelda is the title name of her franchise after all. Besides, Sheik and Zelda play nothing alike, aside from the same Final Smash. People who aren't familiar with the Zelda franchise probably wouldn't even guess that Zelda and Sheik are the same person if it wasn't for the transformation gimmick. What's the problem with just one of those play styles getting cloned for people who want a different take on the character?

 

[Oracle_Summon]

I'd imagine her to be a speedier alternative from Zelda. I can see some of her kicks being replaced by more alternative magic or Wind Waker esque explosive attacks.

I think she'd be more like Link's Toon Link than Marth's Lucina. Shorter, speedier but also a weaker and floatier alternative from Zelda. However, she makes up for it by performing her attacks quicker than her more realistic counterpart.

Would that help Toon Zelda against opponents like ?

 

[Diddy Kong]

I don't really think that there's much of a problem with three different Zeldas on the roster. Zelda is the title name of her franchise after all. Besides, Sheik and Zelda play nothing alike, aside from the same Final Smash. People who aren't familiar with the Zelda franchise probably wouldn't even guess that Zelda and Sheik are the same person if it wasn't for the transformation gimmick. What's the problem with just one of those play styles getting cloned for people who want a different take on the character?

Then why not clone Sheik instead? She has had more moveset changes to make it worth it more I'd say.

 

[Curious Villager]

Would that help Toon Zelda against opponents like ?

I'm not overly sure to be honest. Especially with Sheik's new down and side special moves. At least her side special shouldn't be that much of an issue for her if it works like how I'd imagine it would work.

I guess Toon Zelda could do with a good meteor smash type attack for her down aerial though.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

I'm not overly sure to be honest. Especially with Sheik's new down and side special moves. At least her side special shouldn't be that much of an issue for her if it works like how I'd imagine it would work.

I guess Toon Zelda could do with a good meteor smash type attack for her down aerial though.

When discussing the differences between Toon Zelda and Zelda, Toon Zelda would be a character with better meteor attacks right?

By the way, how would Toon Zelda fare against characters like & ?

 

[Scamper52596]

Then why not clone Sheik instead? She has had more moveset changes to make it worth it more I'd say.

Somehow I knew you might mention something like that. My answer is that nothing is wrong with a Sheik clone. I'm just putting out my argument as to why three different Zeldas, one of which plays way differently, shouldn't be a problem. With so many different versions of the same characters spread across a franchise, one of the best ways to represent said franchise could be to implement those characters in different ways, just like the game series those characters come from. With a series like Zelda, in which characters come and go, it's difficult to add different representatives who aren't the main cast. That's the major reason that I don't believe that adding one more Zelda is overkill. Don't misquote me and think that I'm arguing against other potential characters. I'm not. I'm just arguing for one character in particular. Just my thoughts.

 

[Curious Villager]

When discussing the differences between Toon Zelda and Zelda, Toon Zelda would be a character with better meteor attacks right?

By the way, how would Toon Zelda fare against characters like & ?

Since Toon Zelda has a smaller body with shorter legs and arms, I'd imagine for her aerial attacks to consist of some additional magic or explosive attacks to cover a bit more range. Sort of like some of the aerial attacks Ness and Lucas do. I can see her d-air working somewhat similar to Lucas or her casting a spell downwards similar to Rosalina's d-air to cover a bit more range to compensate for her lower reach with her shorter legs (Which could also be a good meteor smash I'd presume).

Basically, I'd feel Toon Zelda would be making use of magic a lot more than Zelda does for her Smash attacks as she is unable to perform any of the same kicks like Zelda can and based on how Sakurai specifically designed Toon Link in mind. (Who also had his kicks replaced in favor of more sword slashes besides the judo styled back throw compared to Link)

As for how she'd fare against team-like opponents such as Rosalina and the Ice Climbers. She'd probably going to need to take care of the partner character first like most characters do. I think she'd probably need to keep her distance a bit from them though, especially with the Ice Climbers I'd presume...

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Somehow I knew you might mention something like that. My answer is that nothing is wrong with a Sheik clone. I'm just putting out my argument as to why three different Zeldas, one of which plays way differently, shouldn't be a problem. With so many different versions of the same characters spread across a franchise, one of the best ways to represent said franchise could be to implement those characters in different ways, just like the game series those characters come from. With a series like Zelda, in which characters come and go, it's difficult to add different representatives who aren't the main cast. That's the major reason that I don't believe that adding one more Zelda is overkill. Don't misquote me and think that I'm arguing against other potential characters. I'm not. I'm just arguing for one character in particular. Just my thoughts.

I agree Scamper, it would be nice for the Zelda Franchise to have six slots, but it is more likely to have 5 and we all know who is getting that slot. If Zelda does get six slots I do believe that Toon Zelda would get in since she would be more welcomed to fit alongside Toon Link.

 

[Maffewt]

If Toon Link sets a trend, Toon Zelda would also be lighter, smaller, floatier, have less range, and be overall weaker. Zelda is already badly designed, and despite some speed buffs in Toon Zelda, I expect her not to be much better than Zelda herself. Who has also been reported in the demo as the worst character yet in Smash 4. So take that as you want.

I also think 3 characters who are Zelda in essence is major overkill.

It's her Legend. 3 different Zelda representing the 3 most popular franchise entries (Sheik - Ocarina, Tetra - Wind Waker, Zelda - Twilight Princess).

(though I'd prefer Tetra...)

 

[Curious Villager]

I agree Scamper, it would be nice for the Zelda Franchise to have six slots, but it is more likely to have 5 and we all know who is getting that slot. If Zelda does get six slots I do believe that Toon Zelda would get in since she would be more welcomed to fit alongside Toon Link.

Toon Zelda or Tetra would be welcome additions indeed. At least for me they do.

Kinda makes me wish transformations was still a thing as I would have loved to see them both in but oh well..... I do understand why they took it out though....

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

If Zelda does get six slots I do believe that Toon Zelda would get in since she would be more welcomed to fit alongside Toon Link.

Or Tetra. I do believe a Toon character is a better addition to represent well the franchise. Tetra would be preferable, but Toon Zelda is cool too, so I have no problem with her.