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Toon Zelda Support Thread: Hope Springs Eternal

Curious Villager

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I'd say she's certainly a contender, a bit of a shame she hardly ever gets seriously considered in here though despite all of that. Even Young Link seems to have it better....

Tetra doesn't really seem to get all that many nods these days either does she?
 
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Erotic&Heretic

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Well, Toon Zelda is either really plausible or "deconfirmed" by the Phantom.

Our favorite armor can be a "let's have something Toon related for a Zelda-clone" or "Let's put the Phantom to put aside Toon Zelda". That's how I feel about it.

But a Toon Character seems to be the best bet. Toon Zelda or Tetra, IMO.

I admit that I prefer Tetra.
 

Curious Villager

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I don't believe the Phantom disconfirms her at all. Especially if you consider her as a potential semi-clone. Then the Phantom would only make all the more sense for her.

I'd be happy with either Tetra and/or Toon Zelda. Ganon as well but he seems to be a lost cause now..... :/

Oh, speaking about the Phantom.


I never actually really noticed it (then again, I don't really play as Zelda all that often and even if I do and use the Phantom, my opponents hardly ever destroy it...)

But the Phantom does actually break down whilst also showing the inner part's of the armor being modeled and all. So I guess my idea of Toon Zelda inhabiting the Phantom for her Down Special may not be that far fetched of an idea after all.... ^^
 
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Scamper52596

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I'd love to have either Toon Zelda or Tetra. I'm a huge Wind Waker fan, so they're both alright with me. What's interesting is that I think I'd rather have one or the other since the transformation gimmick is gone. If both made it, I'll probably be torn on which I should use more. :chuckle:

If Toon Zelda were to inhabit the Phantom, the idea is that it wouldn't be able to be reflected, right? How do you feel they would balance that out? I was thinking that if the opponent did manage to break it, Toon Zelda should be stunned for a couple seconds. What do you think?
 

n88

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I don't believe the Phantom disconfirms her at all. Especially if you consider her as a potential semi-clone. Then the Phantom would only make all the more sense for her.
Ditto. If anything I'd say that the Phantom's inclusion would give Toon Zelda a better chance; no Transform Down Special means that she's easier to clone from Zelda.

Well, Toon Zelda is either really plausible or "deconfirmed" by the Phantom.

Our favorite armor can be a "let's have something Toon related for a Zelda-clone" or "Let's put the Phantom to put aside Toon Zelda". That's how I feel about it.
I think a new DSpec for Zelda was necessary, and Sakurai/devs grabbed a visually interesting concept from a recent game. There may have been more to it than that, but as far as I know nobody's gone on record about why the Phantom was picked for Zelda's Down Special, so any line of reasoning you can come up with is just conjecture. It's possible that developers weren't even considering Toon Zelda when the move was created, and just liked the Phantom model.

Basically, I think having the Phantom around makes Toon Zelda potentially easier to implement, but I wouldn't read too much into its presence. It doesn't really give us enough to draw any conclusions about developer intent.
 

Curious Villager

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If Toon Zelda were to inhabit the Phantom, the idea is that it wouldn't be able to be reflected, right? How do you feel they would balance that out? I was thinking that if the opponent did manage to break it, Toon Zelda should be stunned for a couple seconds. What do you think?
Well I guess they could sort of do it like Little Mac's neutral special. So perhaps boost its power compared to Zelda's (Maybe even call it the "True Phantom Slash") as Toon Zelda is combining both the Phantom's power and her own, but have it go at a cost of more end lag or suffer from recoil damage if she decides to exit it sooner. If the opponent manages to break it, perhaps she could probably be left stunned for a little bit. But I'm not sure if that might make the move a little too risky to use....

Ditto. If anything I'd say that the Phantom's inclusion would give Toon Zelda a better chance; no Transform Down Special means that she's easier to clone from Zelda.
Yeah I think one of the things that probably held Toon Zelda back from her inclusion during Brawl (Besides time constraints) was probably the whole deal with Toon Sheik as that would have probably increased the work done just for the sake of including one character. (Especially if Toon Zelda and Toon Sheik needed to get the same modifications as Toon Link did). But now with transformations gone. The team can just include Toon Zelda on her own now with no problems if they still wish to include her into the series.


By the way I made a screenshot in regards to how tall Toon Zelda would roughly be relative to some other characters.

This is mainly based off how tall she appeared on the New Nintendo 3DS commercial as well as from some Wind Waker footage. She seems to be about as tall as Luigi without his cap whilst being about a cat-eye taller than Toon Link. So I thought she would probably be about this tall if she was playable.
 
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Curious Villager

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For those who are interested. Toon Zelda is up tomorrow for Rate their Chances.

By the way, I've been working on a little something....


I've been trying to make a high poly 3D model for Toon Zelda. It's not quite finished yet as I've still yet to do her hands, her eyes and her front hair and Tiara too before I start texture painting it and applying the bones. After seeing Toon Link's Smash Bros for Wii U model in more detail I thought I might try my hand at doing a Smash Bros for Wii U styled model for Toon Zelda. (Tetra is on my to do list too in case you're wondering.)

It doesn't look like much, but I hope it turns out alright.
 
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Scamper52596

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All these double posts, Curious Villager. You know there was a time when you would have nailed me for double posting. :laugh:

I'm probably going to start writing up my rating early. Hopefully it turns out well.
Also I'm looking forward to the finished product of your 3D model. I wish I knew how to do that kind of stuff.
 

Curious Villager

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All these double posts, Curious Villager. You know there was a time when you would have nailed me for double posting. :laugh:

I'm probably going to start writing up my rating early. Hopefully it turns out well.
Also I'm looking forward to the finished product of your 3D model. I wish I knew how to do that kind of stuff.
Well, I was waiting for someone to reply to this thread, guess this place isn't all that active..... Normally I don't really do this and even preach to others not to do the same. some example I am..... :teeth: Kinda miss my mod powers though, then I could have just merged the two posts.....

But yeah, I just wanted to remind some people here about her turn coming up for RtC in case anybody was interested in doing so and at the same time, I thought I might as well show what I was currently working on too, apologies for the double post though. ^^
 
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Yomi's Biggest Fan

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For those who are interested. Toon Zelda is up tomorrow for Rate their Chances.

By the way, I've been working on a little something....


I've been trying to make a high poly 3D model for Toon Zelda. It's not quite finished yet as I've still yet to do her hands, her eyes and her front hair and Tiara too before I start texture painting it and applying the bones. After seeing Toon Link's Smash Bros for Wii U model in more detail I thought I might try my hand at doing a Smash Bros for Wii U styled model for Toon Zelda. (Tetra is on my to do list too in case you're wondering.)

It doesn't look like much, but I hope it turns out alright.
Is it too late to say that it looks great?
 

Curious Villager

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Is it too late to say that it looks great?
Well I have been trying to put up as much detail on the base model as I could....

I even went as far as to model the jewel on her chest too in case its hard to see. ^^

Eitherway, I'm happy that you're liking it so far. c:

I'll send a PM to those who are interested once I progress further onto this project.
 
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Scamper52596

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Well, I rated Toon Zelda in the Rate Their Chances thread. I even managed to post it at the top of the page. Hopefully it came out well. Also, Curious Villager, let me know if you want me to edit your name in as credit since I used a couple of your points regarding Sakurai revisiting older ideas.
 

Curious Villager

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Well, I rated Toon Zelda in the Rate Their Chances thread. I even managed to post it at the top of the page. Hopefully it came out well. Also, Curious Villager, let me know if you want me to edit your name in as credit since I used a couple of your points regarding Sakurai revisiting older ideas.
That's okay, no need to credit. I'm happy that you agree though. ^^

I'll rate Toon Zelda once this upcoming Direct has come and gone in case anything interesting happens in it.

Edit: Went ahead and rated her anyway.
 
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Scamper52596

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So what do you guys think the new Zelda game (spin off?) means for Toon Zelda's chances? I'm not sure it means all that much, but with Triforce Heroes releasing this fall there might be the possibility of a cross promotion. The important thing to note from the game is that it uses the toon art style, so if Toon Zelda herself makes an appearance in that game combined with Wind Waker HD, WW elements being used in the new Hyrule Warriors port, and the possibility of representing ALttP/ALBW through alt colors, her relevancy is basically top notch making her a very recognizable character to the general audience. Triforce Heroes only reinforces my belief that she's our most likely Zelda DLC candidate.
 

Erotic&Heretic

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Strangely, Triforce Heroes uses ALBW Zelda's dress. I know that it's ALBW graphics, but Toon Link face is just "patched" on it :laugh:

Anyway, the Toon style is still strong, so that's definitely a plus for Toon Zelda or Tetra.
 

Scamper52596

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Any other Toon Zelda characters you guys would like to see in Hyrule Warriors?
I'd like to see Toon Zelda herself make an appearance. Vaati would be pretty neat, but it seems like they're focusing on elements from Wind Waker specifically so I doubt we'll see him. Maybe Beedle? Not sure how they could make him work. Captain Linebeck would be cool if they're willing to pull from Phantom Hourglass.

Let's just forget all of them and put Toon Sheik in Hyrule Warriors instead...
 
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Yomi's Biggest Fan

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Any other Toon Zelda characters you guys would like to see in Hyrule Warriors?
Other than the obvious Toon Zelda, Beedle would be the ideal choice since we still need that fighting shop character. At least he's in a better situation than poor Happy Mask Salesman who's been jossed aside for Tingle.


 
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Curious Villager

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@ Scamper52596 Scamper52596
Well for one, Triforce Heroes shows us that the Zelda Team still has a soft spot for the Toon design for the Zelda series and that it's more or less has become their staple design for the hand held games for the Zelda series. I mean, they could have easily just reused the A Link Between Worlds design again for this game but they didn't. This makes it more apparent that that design was mainly just meant to be used for A Link Between Worlds since that game was meant to be more of a tribute for A Link to the Past.

Anyway, in regards to Triforce Heroes itself. considering they went out of their way to recreate Toon Link for this game. I'm fairly sure they would bring Toon Zelda herself back for this game too. Either that or we might see the return of Toon Zelda's Four Swords design.
All in all. I agree that she's more or less in a good position. I can even see her getting bundled with the Hyrule Castle (N64) stage too.

@ BluePikmin11 BluePikmin11
I would personally like to see Toon Link himself show up. (Perhaps with his abilities from Four Swords) and Toon Zelda in her Phantom form. Perhaps have her as a ghost with another Phantom accompanying her being able to use various attacks that the Phantoms could use in Spirit Tracks.

Anyway, speaking of that. After having played with Ryu I actually got an idea that could probably expand on my previous idea of the Phantom Slash which implements all four Phantoms from Spirit Tracks in Toon Zelda's moveset and gives her her own unique feature, even as a potential semi-clone.

These are the main four Phantoms who where in Spirit Tracks.

The Regular Phantom


The Torch Phantom


The Warp Phantom


The Wrecker Phantom

So an idea I had was to expand on my idea of Toon Zelda inhabiting the Phantom. But depending on the direction you hold after activating it with the down special, she can use one of the four Phantom's listed above.

* If you hold down on the control stick. You get the regular Phantom that works more or less the same as Zelda's.
* If you hold up on the control stick, she uses the Warp Phantom and warps to a given location and then immediately attacks afterwards.
* Hold the control stick to either right or left and she uses the Wrecker Phantom to roll into her opponents.
* Keep the control stick neutral and she uses the Torch Phantom which uses a flame slash all around her.

Of course all of this assumes the possibility if the 3DS could handle it. But since Toon Zelda isn't exactly gone but merely inside the Phantom and since Zelda seems to be able to summon them just fine. It should hopefully be doable. And it expands further on Zelda's Phantom Slash ability whilst still having Toon Zelda take better advantage of it since she has more experience with Phantoms.

Just an idea I got after playing as Ryu and seeing what they have done for him.
 
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Scamper52596

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That would make the Phantom Slash move so much more versatile. It probably should have been something like that in the first place. That would definitely be a cool way to diversify Toon Zelda.

So I figured I'd share a little bit of logical thinking that I've come up with these last few days, which does bode well for Toon Zelda's chances. I wanted talk about it in case Toon Zelda ever does get added as a DLC character, I'd want to have my thoughts along with your opinions posted somewhere in these boards to show people how we predicted it.

It occurred to me that all of the DLC characters we've gotten so far have been more or less a set of bonus characters. Characters that didn't necessarily need to be on the roster, but are because they'd make good DLC as an added bonus. This is even evidenced by Sakurai in one of his interviews regarding DLC stating that he wanted to create what could be considered a finished product before moving on to add more. He considers stand alone Smash 4 a completed game. Meaning that everything that needs to be represented is already in the base game, and everything created for DLC is just a bonus to make the fans happy.

It's not like this is the first time that this has happened either. Every Smash game since Melee has had its set of bonus characters. This is just the first time they've come in the form of DLC. Brawl had its bonus characters, but most of them were cut probably due to time constraints and various other reasons (Makes me wish Brawl was capable of DLC).

Let's look at the DLC characters we have so far:
Mewtwo: I'd argue he's probably the most deserving, but Pokemon already had 5 very different fighters.
Lucas: From a small franchise that may never get another sequel.
Roy: Most would have argued that Fire Emblem was already over represented in the base game.
Ryu: Basically the definition of a bonus character. He's a recognizable icon, but I never saw him requested before the patch leak, and he's getting a game exclusive to the PS4. It's just really cool to see his franchise represented in Smash.

Now keep in mind that I'm not saying these characters don't have any merit; they most certainly do. What I'm saying is that either their franchises were already adequately represented, or didn't necessarily need to be represented. That brings me to the Legend of Zelda franchise. This franchise is already fully represented; although, since it didn't get a newcomer in the base game while being a very important franchise to Nintendo, who would be the best bonus character that could be added as DLC?

Because she was already planned to be in Brawl, and since then the Toon universe in the Zelda franchise has continued to become more fleshed out ultimately becoming a staple in the series making Toon Zelda a very recognizable and iconic figure along with Wind Waker HD on the Wii U and Triforce Heroes on the way, I still feel that Toon Zelda is our most likely bonus DLC character for the Zelda franchise. It makes the most sense. Feel free to share what you guys think.
 
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Curious Villager

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@ Scamper52596 Scamper52596
Honestly. I kinda feel that she as well as Dixie Kong are in a pretty good position right now in terms of pre-ballot DLC. Lets recap what we know so far.

* Brawl had seven unused character files. These characters where Mewtwo, Roy, Dr.Mario, Dixie Kong, Toon Zelda, Toon Sheik and Pra_Mai.
* Sakurai stated that he had a few more characters planned to include for Smash 4 but couldn't implement due to time constraints. Bowser Jr. being almost one of them.
* Sakurai has brought back Dr.Mario, Mewtwo and Roy. All three where cut Melee veterans, but all three where also planned to return for Brawl.
* During the return of Mewtwo, it was discovered that there where some additional "Mario" files within the data. By including Lucas, Roy and Ryu it comes down to two more unknown "Mario" files left within the data. One can presume that they are probably additional characters in the works but didn't come as far along at the time as Ryu and Roy did.
* Sakurai stated during the return of Roy that he brought him and Lucas back specifically since they where the most particularly popular of all the cut veteran characters in their respective games. The way he worded that made it sound like he has no other veterans planned for pre-ballot DLC and that the two other potential pre-ballot characters may very well be newcomers.
* If Gematsu is to be believed. Lucas was planned to be brought back for the base roster but had his priority lowered in favor of including him as DLC whilst keeping Ness instead.
* There is apparently a file that indicates a potential Rhythm Heaven character planned to be included at one point. However, if Gematsu is to be believed again, said character was probably Glee Club. However, considering that the club consists of three kids together, one can probably deduce that they might have suffered the same issues as the Ice Climbers did.
* Sakurai has quite a track record of revisiting older ideas that he wished to include in previous installments but couldn't for one reason or another. The changes Roy received may very well have been some ideas for him to receive during Brawl since all the other returning Melee clones received a similar type of treatment during Brawl.

Keeping all of this in mind. I can't help but feel that Toon Zelda and Dixie Kong are in a very good position right now when it comes to potential pre-ballot characters. And from seeing some of the actions Sakurai took for these games. I don't really see him abandoning these characters from their inclusion as DLC. He might not include Toon Sheik and Pra_Mai though since the former was most likely just used in order to keep Toon Zelda in line with Zelda and with no transformations, Sakurai can just include her on her own now and assuming Pra_Mai was Plusle and Minun, they might suffer from the same issues as the Ice Climbers did as well.

Which just leaves Toon Zelda and Dixie Kong. I would like to say that they are the most likely pre-ballot characters but in the end.... It's still Sakurai so who knows what he has up his sleeve.... So I'll just say that they are in a good position right now.

But if he decides to revive them after all. I'd be more than happy to purchase them both and have a lot of fun battling with them. I really enjoyed the inclusion of Roy, Ryu and Lucas and I think Sakurai and his team have done a wonderful job with all three of them so I'm fairly sure they would do something interesting for Toon Zelda and Dixie Kong too or at least set them apart enough from their potential counterparts to the point that they would feel like their own characters.

That's just my opinion though. Sorry for the long post. ^^'
 
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shane3x

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I don't know about Toon Zelda but Toon Ganon I think would be great. It'd allow Ganondorf to have a unique moveset for once.
 

Curious Villager

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Toon Ganondorf would be pretty neat too. But I think I would probably rather see Ganon instead if we would get another Ganondorf.
 
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Scamper52596

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Well since it's been a few weeks, I figured I could maybe get some discussion going. People tend to think that Toon Zelda can't be anything except a smaller, faster Zelda (probably due to Toon Link). I believe that, while she still might be a Zelda semi-clone, she could still have a unique mechanic to go along with her. What if she had some kind of spirit mechanic? There's probably a lot you could do with something like that.

My thoughts are that during all of her special move animations, she could turn transparent and go into spirit form. Her specials could be really strong, but if she gets hit out of them then she takes double the knockback than she typically would due to being light as feather. Also depending on the special it would have some start up/cool down time to give the opponent a window if Toon Zelda missed. That way Toon Zelda still encompasses that Risk VS Reward playstyle that Zelda herself is all about, but doing it in a unique way. It's not like Smash has a ghost on the roster yet. Do you guys have any other ideas on how a mechanic that I'm suggesting could work?
 

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I'm all for Toon Zelda as long as we get Tetra, too. They could have the down-b transform gimmick now that Zelda and Sheik are separate. A Wind Waker inspired moveset could be very unique for them.

Besides, Tetra could have her signature sassy wink as a taunt and I need that in Smash.
 
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I'm all for Toon Zelda as long as we get Tetra, too. They could have the down-b transform gimmick now that Zelda and Sheik are separate. A Wind Waker inspired moveset could be very unique for them.

Besides, Tetra could have her signature sassy wink as a taunt and I need that in Smash.
i thought they didnt have zelda transform because the 3ds couldnt handle it

doubt theyd be able to pull it off with toon zelda
 

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i thought they didnt have zelda transform because the 3ds couldnt handle it

doubt theyd be able to pull it off with toon zelda
dun ruin my dreams

tbh I want Tetra way more than Toon Zelda anyway. Tetra has more potential for a unique moveset.
 

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Toon Zelda would be really cool if she used Light Arrows but regular Zelda should've had that anyway so idk. If she did get in then maybe she could have some gimmick from Spirit Tracks with possession or w/e. Since Zelda borrowed some of Link's attacks from OOT like Nayru's Love, Din's Fire, and Farore's Wind, it'd be cool if Toon Zelda used some of Toon Link's items like the Deku Leaf or Fire and Ice arrows. Toon Zelda used to be my #1 wanted newcomer; she isn't anymore but I still like her a lot so I'll probably stay around here. @ Macchiato Macchiato Thanks for tagging me because tbh I forgot Toon Zelda existed LOL
 
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Scamper52596

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Well.... This thread sure found its activity all of a sudden....

How has things been going for you, @ Scamper52596 Scamper52596 ?
It's been alright. The recent free time has been allowing me to get a few things done, but also allowing me to procrastinate a bit more. Hoping that the rest of my summer will continue to get more productive. I hope you've been doing well.

It's nice to see this thread a tad more active now. Hopefully it can stay that way for a little longer. Maybe we can get some more discussion going. Speaking of which, in the wake of things I'm not sure if any of you saw what I had to say about a unique Toon Zelda gimmick that I thought of. I wrote about it in my last post above. The idea is basically about using a spirit form as some sort of new mechanic not seen in Smash before. I was wondering if someone had any further thoughts on that. If not that's fine. Just trying to throw a topic out there.
 

n88

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Apologies for not doing more to foster some discussion in here; I've been pretty busy as of late (actually studying abroad in China at the moment).

Re: the idea of some kind of spirit form mechanic. Not sure how I'd like to see it done, but something like what you're describing could be interesting. It could also potentially serve as a way to differentiate her more from Zelda, even if her moveset is pretty heavily derived from OG Zelda's. As I suspect it would be. Not that you couldn't do anything different with her, but based on his consistent treatment of Toon/Young Link, I'd say Sakurai isn't apt to give us a wildly different Toon Zelda (or even something like a semi-clone). I could see her getting one or two key mechanical differences to separate her from Zelda, though.
 

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It's been alright. The recent free time has been allowing me to get a few things done, but also allowing me to procrastinate a bit more. Hoping that the rest of my summer will continue to get more productive. I hope you've been doing well.

It's nice to see this thread a tad more active now. Hopefully it can stay that way for a little longer. Maybe we can get some more discussion going. Speaking of which, in the wake of things I'm not sure if any of you saw what I had to say about a unique Toon Zelda gimmick that I thought of. I wrote about it in my last post above. The idea is basically about using a spirit form as some sort of new mechanic not seen in Smash before. I was wondering if someone had any further thoughts on that. If not that's fine. Just trying to throw a topic out there.
That's good to hear. I've been doing fine too. My Smash 4 Toon Zelda project is going alright too.

Your Spirit mechanic sounds pretty interesting too and it would be a neat little thing to set her a bit more apart from Zelda.

Apologies for not doing more to foster some discussion in here; I've been pretty busy as of late (actually studying abroad in China at the moment).

Re: the idea of some kind of spirit form mechanic. Not sure how I'd like to see it done, but something like what you're describing could be interesting. It could also potentially serve as a way to differentiate her more from Zelda, even if her moveset is pretty heavily derived from OG Zelda's. As I suspect it would be. Not that you couldn't do anything different with her, but based on his consistent treatment of Toon/Young Link, I'd say Sakurai isn't apt to give us a wildly different Toon Zelda (or even something like a semi-clone). I could see her getting one or two key mechanical differences to separate her from Zelda, though.
Hey, It's nice to hear from you again! ^^

To be fair, Toon Link is pretty far driven from Link actually, especially in this game. At least to a larger extend than the clone trio are. I would be pretty surprised if Sakurai didn't at the very least change some of the kicks to something else for Toon Zelda. Considering he did that for Toon Link too due to his smaller legs and considering that Zelda has far more attacks that involves her kicking around compared to Link.....

I do agree I wouldn't expect anything drastic from her though, but I can see Sakurai diversifying her to around the level Toon Link, Falco, Ganondorf and Roy are at the very least imo.
 

Curious Villager

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I should probably get back to working further on Toon Zelda's high poly model now that I think about it. Haven't got around to it for a while due to my busy schedule..... :/

Y'know, I've send a vote for this character before the ballot closed. I just went straight to the point and asked if it was possible to have her as a weaker but more agile alternative for Zelda with a larger emphasis on magic and racking up damage to her opponents, similar to how Toon Link is from Link. I thought that was probably the most realistic thing to ask for her.....

Considering Sakurai is working with a smaller team and based on what we received for the first wave. I think between the span of six to eight month's, I'd assume the dev's have about enough time to produce two unique characters and two semi/pseudo clones. (based on the characters they got done in June that is) According to Sakurai it takes about 6 months to balance a character (if I recall correctly) So I suppose it wouldn't be too far fetched to see them release a few characters based on others in order to speed up development time a little. Wolf primarily due to his high demand. But there is also Dixie Kong and Toon Zelda from Brawl too which Sakurai might decide to revisit.

I guess it depends on how long they plan to carry this service on and how many characters they hope to include within this time span..... I think we will probably receive two more waves of at least three or four characters (only if they include semi/pseudo clones though). They probably already have some characters in the works before the ballot officially ended (There was that additional Mario slot added not too long ago after all), and then might work a little further based on after the ballot ended.

That's what I think at least.... :/

Sorry for the bump btw.
 
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