Toon Zelda Support Thread: Hope Springs Eternal

n88_2004

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#1

~The Basics~
You all know Zelda, right? If not, I have no idea how you found this webpage. Well, this is simply Nintendo's favored style for portraying incarnations of Zelda younger than the one we currently have in Smash. With that established, let's jump straight into. . .

~The Arguing~
I'm sure someone will come around to challenge me on this before long, but I think Toon Zelda is a very likely (DLC!) newcomer for SSB4. When people list possible Zelda characters, big Groose v Ghirahim arguments come up, and nobody goes home happy. Toon Zelda is almost always written off, but I think she's quite possibly the most qualified candidate among all Zelda characters. (Heck, there are already some empty files in Brawl with her name on them, so she's definitely been on somebody's mind) To argue against a few imaginary attackers. . .

1) But we already have Zelda! Why would Sakurai include another one?

We also already had Link, and Sakurai decided to bring in a second one. I'm not sure of his exact logic, but if I had to guess I would say that he wants to include both the older, more popular version of Link, and a younger incarnation, as Link actually appears as a youngster far more often than not. Whatever his reasoning, he thinks it's important to have both an older and a younger version of Link. And I think that same logic could easily be extended to Zelda; after all, she's in much the same situation as Link, since the two are always the same age. I won't claim to know exactly what Sakurai thinks about the Zelda franchise, but Toon Link opens the door to Toon Zelda.

2) Grrrr. I hate clones!

I don't really get this. Just because a character is cloned doesn't mean they have no gameplay differences. There used to be a big argument about Toon Sheik and Toon Zelda's down special, but that's woefully out of date.

3) But I love me some Heavyweight Male Antagonists! If we get another toon character, it should be Ganondorf!

No, not really. Toon Ganondorf is not substantially different from Ganondorf. Yes, I realize his moveset could be made different, especially with swords, but whereas Toon Link and Toon Zelda represent those younger versions of the characters we get all the time, Toon Ganondorf is still pretty much the same guy. Also, Zelda is probably seen as more of a key player by Sakurai, who always adds the villain last. Zelda came before Ganondorf in Melee, and I doubt Sakurai's priorities have changed all that much since.

So yes, let us all rejoice in the knowledge that a short big-headed Zelda could coming to a Smash game near you. Or shout at me about clones being lame or Groose being awesome or something. Suit yourself, I'm easy.
 
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MasterWarlord

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#2
Instead of a Toon Sheik, we have two possibilities; a unique Down Special with no transformation, or a transformation into Tetra. The former seems awkward to me when the adult Zelda is taken into account, so I would bet on the latter. So Toon Zelda, though herself almost certainly a clone, would have an entirely unique transformation, which changes her dynamic from the adult Zelda quite a bit.
The characters on the Forbidden 7 were. . .Veterans from Melee, Dixie Kong added in as a Nana, Plusle and Minun as a single unique choice (But still quite possibly a substitute for Pichu, given he's the only veteran not on the 7), and Toon Zelda. It seems to me that these characters were largely potential characters Sakurai intended to add to fill up the roster and make it look bigger than it was. In other words, I'm saying that Sakurai probably chose Toon Zelda because she was something he could rush in at the last second.

The new Zelda newcomer won't be coming in so late this time around, though. The 5th Zelda is kind of overdue after how ignored the series was in Brawl, so Tingle/Ghirahim/whoever will be put on a lot higher priority. I don't think Zelda needs a rushed newcomer this time.

As far as what I specifically quoted, I just find it strange that you're proposing a character that was clearly considered just to be rushed in as a last second addition, then proposing she gets a completely unique transformation. . .
 

n88_2004

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#3
I don't think Sakurai views the roster in terms of X Series needing X Number of characters because of its importance. If he did, StarFox would almost certainly not be one of the bigger franchises. So I don't think a fifth Zelda rep will necessarily be one of his top priorities. Everything we know about Sakurai suggests that he considers characters on individual merit, far far moreso than what series they're from. Groose and Ghirahim are recent, but not with a release properly timed for the marketing guys to force them on Sakurai. Remember when Sakurai didn't know who Krystal was? He's not checking Smashboards and YouTube for popularity so he can pick out the fifth most deserving Zelda character. I doubt that anyone from the franchise besides Tingle and Toon Zelda is even on his radar.

Also, you have pointed out that in addition to potentially being a well thought-out and unique fighter planned from the beginning, Toon Zelda could also be thrown in at the last minute as half-***** filler. I am fairly certain that this brings her chances up, not down.
 

MasterWarlord

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#4
What does Toon Zelda contribute as an individual character, then? Wind Waker/Phantom Hourglass/Spirit Tracks are represented via Toon Link, and Zelda already has two movesets (Sheik). Does she really need a third, potentially a fourth with a Tetra transformation?

Oh, and I tried to use that argument against Ghirahim in the past, with him possibly not knowing who Ghirahim is. According to his twitter, he's in fact playing Skyward Sword right now.
 

n88_2004

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#5
I'm not necessarily arguing that he wouldn't know Ghirahim, just that he really isn't in touch with the vocal internet-based minority. And does Ghirahim have support anywhere else. . . ? The "Big in Japan" card is completely worthless without a solid source.

Also, I would argue that Toon Link isn't just representing the Toon games. He's representing every game in which Link is not an adult/late teen/whatever, which is to the best of my knowledge every Zelda game bar Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess. (Ocarina of Time has both) He's just in the Toon style because that's how Nintendo likes their Young Link these days. He's giving us the much more common younger Link. Similarly, Toon Zelda would give us a younger Zelda, which is arguably the definitive version of the character.
 

Get Low

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#7
I think if they Put Toon Zelda in Smash 4 she should have a similar moveset to regular Zelda, but with quicker speed, and nerfed lightning kick power (but not too nerfed).
 
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#8
I'm mainly for Toon Zelda because I really want to see Tetra playable. I mean if we can have Sheik playable all the time, why not Zelda's other alter ego? I hope Sakurai finishes off those files and that "Toon Sheik" had better be a codename for "Tetra" with pirate themed moves.

Toon Zelda doesn't necessarily has to be a clone either even though whe've seen princess Zelda fighting much much less then Princess Peach does in the games who at least helped Mario out most of his adventures (usually in the RPG's and SMB2) whereas Zelda usually only helps during final battles. But I'm sure Spirit Tracks can give her a good opportunity. Her Final Smash can definitely be her turning into a Phantom with an incredibly powerful sword attack. At least if Sakurai or Namco doesn't decide to go the lazy route and give her light arrows like her older incarnation instead.

And I do agree that the Toon incarnation isn't only representing the Toon Zelda's. But all games that featured a younger Link, heck I believe Young Link's trophy description in Melee even mentioned that the younger incarnations are often seen as the "true Link" anyway which is likely why were still getting a younger incarnation of Link playable in smash bros and this can of course also apply to the younger Zelda's and why were still getting many more Zelda games involving a younger Link while we still only have about two or three adult Link's in the Zelda series.
 
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#9
If Toon Zelda gets in Smash 4, she should have Phantom Zelda as a form.

It would represent the latest in the "Toon" Trilogy, as well as the first time Zelda was playable outside of the CD-i games.
It's not like she has nothing to work with, as there are multiple types of Phantoms to take powers from, like Torch Phantoms, Wrecker Phantoms, and Warp Phantoms.
 

gothrax

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#10
If Toon Zelda gets in Smash 4, she should have Phantom Zelda as a form.

It would represent the latest in the "Toon" Trilogy, as well as the first time Zelda was playable outside of the CD-i games.
It's not like she has nothing to work with, as there are multiple types of Phantoms to take powers from, like Torch Phantoms, Wrecker Phantoms, and Warp Phantoms.
Thats a good idea i agree i also think Tink should get a conductor hat though?

:phone:
 

Wizzrobe

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#11
[glow]I support Toon Zelda a lot. I like the character and She could be a faster and probably better version of Zelda and also I would love to see her transform into Tetra and I think Tetra could have a good variety of moves so I think it could work well.

Also, she could turn into her phantom with awesome attacks and stuff. Also I wonder if they could do something involving her spirit ghost form where she is not in her body.[/glow]
 

Wizzrobe

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#15
Twilight Princess Sheik didn't exist either....

Sakurai is unpredictable at times hahah
Hmm, I guess I never thought of that I just thought of Brawl Sheik as an updated Sheik. Also, it made sense because Sheik was in Melee so they decided to keep her for Brawl ad they had to put her with Zelda again.
 

Onyx Oblivian

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#17
It was beta sheik from twilight princess. I doubt that wind waker had a beta sheik.
It was concept art sheik. I don't think she was even programmed so technically that wouldn't make her beta.

What I don't understand is why they didn't just call her "Tetra" or Tetra's Japanese name if she has one. I really think she was planned to be a Melee-style clone of Zelda/Sheik.

I think we were about to get this:



Which would have been kind of cool, I guess. :laugh:

Unless it really WAS supposed to be Tetra. Then she was probably scrapped because she didn't make sense with Sheik's moveset? Who knows. I really wish Sakurai would talk about the Forbidden 7 in depth haha
 

SmashShadow

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#18
I would much rather Vaati get in because I know if Zelda gets in then Ganon won't be far behind and then we'll have a copy roster.
 

fogbadge

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#21
im all for toon zelda i would her to be able to turn into tetra, but i would also be good with phantom zelda as some else mentioned
 

Diddy Kong

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#22
Toon Sheik might not be existant, but there's another option:



Could easily work as a Luigfied-Sheik clone, or a replacement for Sheik all together. Or Skyward Sword Zelda / Impa would replace the more graphically detailed OoT / TP version of Zelda / Sheik, while Toon Link 'merges' with Link to create a hybrid between both. In these both cases, I support 'Toon' Zelda.

But not as a stand-alone character, and especially not with a Toon 'Sheik'.
 

jigglover

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#23
It was concept art sheik. I don't think she was even programmed so technically that wouldn't make her beta.

What I don't understand is why they didn't just call her "Tetra" or Tetra's Japanese name if she has one. I really think she was planned to be a Melee-style clone of Zelda/Sheik.

I think we were about to get this:



Which would have been kind of cool, I guess. :laugh:

Unless it really WAS supposed to be Tetra. Then she was probably scrapped because she didn't make sense with Sheik's moveset? Who knows. I really wish Sakurai would talk about the Forbidden 7 in depth haha
If that happened then we'd have a lot of this: "Mummy, I've had a night-mare" :awesome:
 

Diddy Kong

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#28
And existant is always better than non-existant. :awesome:

Also: multiple appearances is better than one-off
 

Diddy Kong

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#31
Popularity is also better than relevancy. :smirk:
Relevancy helps with popularity.

Say, Sheik will be in Smash 4, but not in all upcoming Zelda games this generation (yet again) - who's gonna regocnize her? At least with Impa you could say she's at least regocnizable.

Also, her sole role in OoT isn't even all that great.
 

jigglover

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#32
Relevancy helps with popularity.

Say, Sheik will be in Smash 4, but not in all upcoming Zelda games this generation (yet again) - who's gonna regocnize her? At least with Impa you could say she's at least regocnizable.

Also, her sole role in OoT isn't even all that great.
No.. you mean giving Link the power and skills to transform to his younger self and make the story happen isn't relevant...
 

Opossum

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#33
Relevancy helps with popularity.

Say, Sheik will be in Smash 4, but not in all upcoming Zelda games this generation (yet again) - who's gonna regocnize her? At least with Impa you could say she's at least regocnizable.

Also, her sole role in OoT isn't even all that great.
The people who play Smash? You know, the people the game is made for?
 

Pichu4SSB4

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#34
Relevancy helps with popularity.

Say, Sheik will be in Smash 4, but not in all upcoming Zelda games this generation (yet again) - who's gonna regocnize her? At least with Impa you could say she's at least regocnizable.

Also, her sole role in OoT isn't even all that great.
Say that to the millions of players who still play OOT to this day, probably more than Skyward Sword. So Sheik will always be a more iconic character for the Zelda franchise, more than Impa.
 

Diddy Kong

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#35
No.. you mean giving Link the power and skills to transform to his younger self and make the story happen isn't relevant...
Link did that himself basically, Sheik only gave explanations, which is what her role was all about.

Also, Impa was in OOT as well. :rolleyes:

:phone:
 

jigglover

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#36
I'd like to say that while I have played OoT, WW, TP and SS, (of only three of which Impa is in) I never learned her name. I played OoT only once, and Sheik still sticks in my mind.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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#38
I'd like to say that while I have played OoT, WW, TP and SS, (of only three of which Impa is in) I never learned her name. I played OoT only once, and Sheik still sticks in my mind.
for the record, Impa is only a side appearance in a stained glass window in Wind Waker, and she isn't in Twilight Princess, which would make her only in 2 of those listed games. I'd also have to say that Sheik is a more important character in OoT. But then again she hasnt appeared since
 

jigglover

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#39
for the record, Impa is only a side appearance in a stained glass window in Wind Waker, and she isn't in Twilight Princess, which would make her only in 2 of those listed games. I'd also have to say that Sheik is a more important character in OoT. But then again she hasnt appeared since
I was aware of the stained glass window in WW, I just didn't feel the need to mention it. I thought she might have been, it's been a while since I've played it.
 

Diddy Kong

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#40
In TP, Impa is referred to though. It's by the new 'guardian' of the old Kakariko Village named Impaz. She said her name came from 'the ancient great one who built and protected this village so many years ago'.

:phone:
 
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