Toon Link Q&A

[Demp]

I am very new to the game, and so far I have been getting the hang of TL. But one thing I haven't come close to making a habit is SHDA. When I am playing against someone (as opposed to trying this out in Training) I can never get a short hop. I almost always do a medium or tall hop. And when I do get a short hop I can never get the double arrow. I have heard "Bow Cancelling" being mentioned on the topic of SHDA, so maybe I am missing something here. If I am, then what sequence of buttons should I be pressing? If I am not, then what tips do you have for doing SHDA other than practicing my butt off? And what buttons do you suggest using for jump? Right now I mainly use the C-Stick to jump and tried using the Y button, which didn't help much more.

Thanks for the help.

 

[samizdat]

I am very new to the game, and so far I have been getting the hang of TL. But one thing I haven't come close to making a habit is SHDA. When I am playing against someone (as opposed to trying this out in Training) I can never get a short hop. I almost always do a medium or tall hop. And when I do get a short hop I can never get the double arrow. I have heard "Bow Cancelling" being mentioned on the topic of SHDA, so maybe I am missing something here. If I am, then what sequence of buttons should I be pressing? If I am not, then what tips do you have for doing SHDA other than practicing my butt off? And what buttons do you suggest using for jump? Right now I mainly use the C-Stick to jump and tried using the Y button, which didn't help much more.

Thanks for the help.

Bow cancelling (sometimes known as quick draw) simply refers to using the bow right before landing, which cancels out the bow animation and makes for a speedy and virtually lagless arrow. As this can be done out of multiple short-hopped moves (nair, bair, fair, bomb draw, bomb throw, or arrow -> bow cancel [the last of which being the SHDA]), it is useful as its own term.

As far as config goes, I'm copying from a post I made here:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=172130

Here's what I do: Tap jump off, set X as special, set L as jump, everything else default. Some people don't like having shield set on a shoulder button, as it takes perhaps a millisecond more to press it down, but I personally don't find it that disadvantageous.

Here's what my config allows: easy SHDA (either L+B+B or Y+X+X) and easy quick bomb throws (if you're running with a bomb in hand and press L+C-stick behind you, TL does a sweet quick throw behind him, which is awesome for retreats; another thing L-jump allows is the ability to DI and double jump while throwing bombs via c-stick, which I think is way underused).

Another thing: I've gotten used to using both B and X for special; this helps not only for specials involving jumping (thanks to X) but also for specials performed quickly after c-stick (thanks to B). That is more of a personal thing, I guess..

 

[Megamioflust]

Err.. here again..>_>

This is aquestion for everyone. Do you use c-stick or button to b-air and why?

 

[Megamioflust]

I'm really furstrated with TL, I can't seem to find any reliable kill moves besides the Usmash/utilt, but after awhile people learn avoid it.
I started playing Marth and I feel like it is easier to kill with him, any advices ?

And the second thing that annoys me is edgeguarding , again I can't find any reliable attack to edgeguard my opponent, dair is too risky bair knocks them above (it actually helps them recover), the only thing that I find useful is the nair, and its not that great

Haha.. I know how you feel. I think that 's TLink's downfall. TLink with Marth's F-air = top tier.

 

[solidpit]

I'm having trouble learning how to SHDA, any advice?

 

[JesiahTEG]

Really the only thing we can tell you is to practice. That's what it comes down to, just test out the timings for the arrows, find which works and then practice it.

 

[~The Koopa King~]

Why Is Toon Link So Popular And Why Do So Many People Main Him?

 

[JesiahTEG]

Your statement is false.

 

[~The Koopa King~]

false how?
its just a question...and i know its true that TL's Popular i mean he's such a easy character to pick up...he's like Ike For Lightweights(By Ike I Mean Everybody and they're grandma uses him)

 

[JesiahTEG]

Ok, I'll just fill you in.

Not everyone uses Toon Link. I can count a handful of semi-good to good people that play Toon Link, and none of them place past top 10 in tournament. He's not easy, just as easy as any other character, and he's most likely not even top tier material, which is why you will not see anyone using him to win tournaments, most likely.

Ike is not good. He was overrated in the beginning, but now he's probably low-mid tier at best. His moves are slow and easy to punish, and he sucks @ dealing with projectiles. Not many people use Ike in tournament either.

 

[Santi]

Ok, I'll just fill you in.

Not everyone uses Toon Link. I can count a handful of semi-good to good people that play Toon Link, and none of them place past top 10 in tournament. He's not easy, just as easy as any other character, and he's most likely not even top tier material, which is why you will not see anyone using him to win tournaments, most likely.

Ike is not good. He was overrated in the beginning, but now he's probably low-mid tier at best. His moves are slow and easy to punish, and he sucks @ dealing with projectiles. Not many people use Ike in tournament either.

Well said. Toon Link is easy to learn, difficult to master.

 

[Lobos]

Ok, I'll just fill you in.

Not everyone uses Toon Link. I can count a handful of semi-good to good people that play Toon Link, and none of them place past top 10 in tournament. He's not easy, just as easy as any other character, and he's most likely not even top tier material, which is why you will not see anyone using him to win tournaments, most likely.

Ike is not good. He was overrated in the beginning, but now he's probably low-mid tier at best. His moves are slow and easy to punish, and he sucks @ dealing with projectiles. Not many people use Ike in tournament either.

I've placed 9th.................in teams lol

 

[congospork]

I'm having trouble learning how to SHDA, any advice?

I used to have trouble quick drawing bow as well, but I solved the problem by mapping special to the jump button above A... that way you can jump and roll your finger left immediately to make sure you short hop and fire in time to hit it just before you land... it works like a charm

 

[dwu39]

Hi, I have three questions

How do you use A attacks without throwing a bomb u are holding?

What is the timing for the SHDA with a default set up?
(How fast do you tab B after the short hop and the amount of time between the two B presses?)

When do you use each specific aerial?
(How is fair, nair, and bair used in different situations?)

PS: Any other tips with toon link in general would be helpful

Thanks!

 

[Rawrness]

Can you wavebounce arrows?

 

[old king coal]

I was wondering how useful this really is: whenever I'm retreating I will sometimes randomly throw bombs up into the air. I find that the bombs either hit my opponents, make them hesitate to follow me back, or leave them vulnerable when they dodge/shield it. Is this a good idea, or would it be better if I used SHDA or something else to cover my retreat?

use jump cancelled bomb throw. it always gets them when they are not suspecting it. you can also throw it up with this technique.

my question: i know you can do aerials and grounded smash attacks while holding a bomb, but can you do tilt's, and if so what is the technique...?

if so then- z bomb drop and catch (dont know the name) nair > up-tilt (x2) > bomb thow up> uair. ???

 

[old king coal]

sorry bout the double post but i just saw this guys question

Hi, I have three questions

How do you use A attacks without throwing a bomb u are holding?

What is the timing for the SHDA with a default set up?
(How fast do you tab B after the short hop and the amount of time between the two B presses?)

When do you use each specific aerial?
(How is fair, nair, and bair used in different situations?)

PS: Any other tips with toon link in general would be helpful

Thanks!

1) a smashes with bomb: hold a and c stick in the direction u want to attack (note: you must hold a at same time as c stick. if u just c stick then u will throw ur bomb)

aerials with bomb: jump, drop bomb with z, aerial. you will catch the bomb when you land with this. works well with short hops. NOTE: when done high in the air, you need to fast fall down into the bomb (i think?!?!)

2) SHDA: this link tells you how to do is as link and toon link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcODP-_bhrI

3) to situational to explain

 

[old king coal]

sorry about the triple post lol, but...

Ok, I've got a question.

Does anyone have any edgeguarding tricks vs any characters? I'm just curious to find out how everyone edgeguards other characters.

ok yes i have been dying for someone to ask this.

against characters with a vertical recovery (eg marth, fox, falco, wolf, link, etc)
grab the edge with your hookshot. let go by falling back and then grab onto it really fast again with the hookshot. this gives you invincibility frames and they fall to their death. the timing is hard, but once you get it.... omfg. i first did that against my friends marth. he thought he was gonna kill me with his up-b when i was edgehogging and he went through me and fell to his death. i was like lol and he was all wtf.

against floaty characters: i have never done this, but apparently if your over the edge and have a bomb and z drop it, then dair, if you miss then you get blown up by the bomb and get ur up-bjump back again.

also i think...if your hanging on the edge and you drop down then jump up and quickly dair with DI towards the edge (hope you understand what i mean) you can get a falco/fox who just phantasm'ed back or a captain falcon who is trying to make it back and who will just make the level without having to edgegrab

 

[ozg82889]

to do the SHDA what i do is that i set my R button to special as i also main lucas and that helps me do the zap jump. so i just tap jump and the R button at the same time and right before i touch the ground i tap the R button again. i practiced for like 30 mins before i got it down and formed some muscle memmory. now i have like 80-90 accuracy and i been doing it for about a week as i have been maining toon link since the us release but I was to lazy to learn.

the only problem is that i never used the r trigger in melee just the l trigger so it took a while to get used to using it. the 30 mins of practice ended with my finger in a bit of pain due to that fact.

the SHDA has greatly increased my toon link game especially the quickdraw because i like to use it after the nair and if i miss my first back air and i end up being behind their shield i quickdraw so if they let their shield down to early they will get hit by the arrow and i could use the short amount of hit stun to do some damage.

 

[old king coal]

just deleting something...

 

[dwu39]

Is it possible to chain nairs, and if not, would using bair be better?

 

[Lobos]

Is it possible to chain nairs, and if not, would using bair be better?

No and Yes

 

[TLMarth]

I almost never use fsmash. Is this bad?

Also my favorite way to kill with TL is with his upB. Anyone else?

I'm pretty sure hitting shields doesn't make moves stale.

You're missing out on a good move. Did you know that Toon Link has a second hit to the fsmash if you press A again? This might be why you don't use the fsmash. The second hit's more powerful than the first.

 

[TLMarth]

I am very new to the game, and so far I have been getting the hang of TL. But one thing I haven't come close to making a habit is SHDA. When I am playing against someone (as opposed to trying this out in Training) I can never get a short hop. I almost always do a medium or tall hop. And when I do get a short hop I can never get the double arrow. I have heard "Bow Cancelling" being mentioned on the topic of SHDA, so maybe I am missing something here. If I am, then what sequence of buttons should I be pressing? If I am not, then what tips do you have for doing SHDA other than practicing my butt off? And what buttons do you suggest using for jump? Right now I mainly use the C-Stick to jump and tried using the Y button, which didn't help much more.

Thanks for the help.

You have to make a habit of short hopping. MUST. Your game will never be complete without it. You have to tap the jump button very quickly (make sure it's a button). You have to develop the feel, of springing your hand away quickly.
You might have to practice your butt off to get the short hop down. But it's worth it. It's crucial to all Smash Brothers. It allows for quick aerials and the SHDA.

Now, bow cancelling is just using the bow right before you land, so that the lag is cancelled. See this link for bow cancelling: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=153532
and this one for SHDA:http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=145097

Basically, you jump, immediately press the special button, then WAIT, don't spam the button, then just before you hit the ground press the special button again. That's it. Three buttons.
I would recommend using y, b, b, or y, x, x for buttons. I use y for jumping, so.

And see my signature for a directory to some useful Toon Link 'techniques'

 

[Evil_MARIO]

-yo im havin trouble doin continuous back airs on stage. I can get about 2 off but then i turn forward and do forward airs and i want to do backairs still...... tryin to do like dey do in da vids... bair --> bair -->bair -->bair--> d air ( SPIKED!!). aNY TIPS? i dont use the c-stick . and how do i practice it if noones around?

 

[Clevr]

@ Evil_MARIO - It's tricky, but after you land on the ground, you have to SH again, without moving the control stick. After you're in the air, you can move the control stick left or right, and C-stick for the Bairs while your back is facing them. Takes a lot of practice.

Something you asked that I wanted to also ask is...

Well, I rarely get the chance to play my friends (never online, don't have wii's, or they live 20 min away), and am usually stuck having to play against Lvl 9 CPU's. How should I be practicing doing Bairs/Quick Drawing/etc? I seem to be able to do it pretty well against the CPU's, but I'm really not sure if I'll be able to play against other players as well. Any advice on what I should do in this situation?

 

[Finch]

You're missing out on a good move. Did you know that Toon Link has a second hit to the fsmash if you press A again? This might be why you don't use the fsmash. The second hit's more powerful than the first.

Let me rephrase: I never use fsmash because it's horribly predictable and slow. Is this bad?

 

[dwu39]

I use it to build damage if they are stunned, but it is very slow. This move is situational like dair.
Sometimes I delay the second slash to fake them out for a kill.

Question: I have a hard time with the timing of SHDA. When do you shoot the 1sst arrow after jumping, and do you spam b to get the 2nd shot?

 

[ImpactAR]

Fsmash is a very good KO move, but it's short and the bulk of it is on the second hit which does have some recovery time needed. I personally don't use it much, just a few times in match ups if any. I usually only use it when my opponent is at a high percentage and I don't bother with the second hit if my opponent avoids or blocks the first one cause they rather not challenge it since it would be almost a guaranteed KO if it lands.

With the repeated Bair question, make sure you don't hold the joystick toward your opponent when you're close to landing otherwise the buffering system will kick in and turn you around. Then you need to SH or jump then start Bairs again. It's even more difficult if you don't use the C-stick since you will depend on your joystick to DI and execute the Bair so you might want to get use to it. At least for ease.

With the SHDA question it's probably because you're not executing the first arrow fast enough when you execute your short hop so you don't get your second arrow out at the right time. You need to practice being quicker at shooting the first arrow right when you short hop or find a control scheme what will help you do so.

 

[JesiahTEG]

I use Fsmash sometimes as a poking tool. It has the most range out of any of his attacks, and if the first hit gets shielded, you can just not use the second hit and retreat.

 

[LeifusYourGod]

i just use RARin at mid range to throw off my opponents when they think im gonna keep up the projectile sword combos, aka mindgames

 

[JesiahTEG]

NEW POSSIBLE DISCOVERY

I figured I'd post this in the Q&A thread to avoid creating a useless thread in case this is already known. In any case uhh...Did you guys know you can charge Toon Link's Up B? Not in the air mind you, but on the ground...Just hold Up and B, and you can charge it. Fully charged with no depreciation deals 20 damage, while uncharged deals 12. Just thought it was a neat find in case I missed it somewhere on these boards.

 

[Aziel]

Yeah, I think a lot of us might have known that already, as you can do the same with Link's Up B, and fully charged it's his strongest attack. However, perhaps there are some that either don't know or have underestimated it's usefulness. Oftentimes I probably won't even fully charge his Up B, only using it to mix up my game because it's really an all-or-nothing sort of attack, but it is useful for dealing damage

 

[huenikad]

Ok i'm still very new to TL and the game but first of all I was wondering why toon link does so poorly at tournaments yet has such great matchups according to the matchup threads.

Thanks in advance,

huenikad

 

[ozg82889]

i would guess because there are not as much toon link players. in a tournament i went to out of 58 people only 4 used toon link. 1 tied for 25th, 2 for 17th, and one for 13th which isn't to bad but compared to the snakes and mks we were under represented at the tourney.

not as under represented as olimar though my bro was the only one there i think.

 

[VietGeek]

 

[vanderzant]

Q: Do the people here (who play/main TL) think that Toon Link is not doing well/underrepresentd at tournaments due to the lack of "well known" smashers who use him (i.e. BRoomers/Melee Vets)? Or is he simply not "usable" at tournament level and just another Mid Tier character who was hyped up?

And just so you know, I don't own or have ever played Brawl because it doesn't come out in Australia until June 26th, BUT I want to play as TL since I mained YL in melee.

EDIT: I just realised a similar question was asked a page back... but I'd still appreciate some answers

 

[JesiahTEG]

LOL shows how good I am at discovering things. ;P Guess it's not new then, thanks guys.

And Toon Link has trouble with MK, and to an extent Snake, although I believe the matchup is even. IMO, if Toon Link's can find a way to start beating MK's, he'll move up the tier list.

And Vietgeek, I'm still really active here, but stopped posting every 2 hours for about a week cuz I was practicing for a tourney/working on college crap.

Also, if anyone wants to play me online, IM me at GB JesiahTEG, or I'm sometimes in the chat on Allisbrawl.com. I'll be happy to get some dittos in with ppl. I suck at dittos.

 

[Hype]

I have a few questions relating to how your moves "decay" after use. I know that they get refreshed after 9 (I think 9) other moves.

Q1: do multi-hit attacks count as an attack for every hit? I always just assumed that it did but im not sure.

Q2: sometimes when I feel my moves are getting weak, I do an up B on the ground to refresh my other moves. Is this wise?

Q3: when you attack the statues on castle siege or the house on luigi's mansion, does this refresh your other moves? sometimes I hit a few d-tilts into those objects if I can.

 

[gkrackerr]

I have a few questions relating to how your moves "decay" after use. I know that they get refreshed after 9 (I think 9) other moves.

Q1: do multi-hit attacks count as an attack for every hit? I always just assumed that it did but im not sure.

Q2: sometimes when I feel my moves are getting weak, I do an up B on the ground to refresh my other moves. Is this wise?

Q3: when you attack the statues on castle siege or the house on luigi's mansion, does this refresh your other moves? sometimes I hit a few d-tilts into those objects if I can.

I think I can answer #2 and #3, but I'm not sure about #1.

Q2: Doing an up-b isn't that great. Yes you can use it out of shield and rack up a quick 20% (I think), but as a refresher move you have much better options. One would be to use your projectiles (mainly arrows), because they come out quickly, and each one counts as it's own attack, refreshing your kill moves.

Q3: A move decays, and "refreshes" other moves, when it hits a shield/player/object (I.E. the statues on Castle Siege, an Item Box, the supports in Luigi's mansion etc.). I don't know what would be best for refreshing moves quickly, but I suppose SHDA or standard A will suffice.