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[Tool] Knockback, Launch Speed, Hitstun, Hitlag & Shieldstun Calculation v1.11

Discussion in 'Melee Discussion' started by Strong Bad, Jul 5, 2012.

  1. Strong Bad

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    Download

    Microsoft Excel Spreadsheet
    Open Office Spreadsheet
    Google Docs for anything else (File -> Download As)

    What's this do?

    Using this tool, you can calculate exactly how many frames of hitstun a particular hitbox will cause against any character, NTSC or PAL, based on just about every possible variable. No longer do you have to boot up debug mode and painstakingly count frames in frame advance to check if something is a "true combo," you can now simply calculate it. This is HUGE for Smash theory.
    Do keep in mind that your character might still have to position themselves for the next attack to hit, however.

    Features

    -Fully-functional Stale Move Queue
    -Displays Stale Damage Multiplier and Staled Damage based on said queue.
    -NTSC/PAL setting for differing character weights
    -Calculates Knockback, Launch Speed, Hitstun, Hitlag & Shieldstun based on just about any variable possible including:
    Hitbox Damage
    Knockback values
    Hitbox Element
    Victim (Weight)
    Victim Damage
    Whether or not victim is Crouch Canceling
    Whether or not victim is charging a smash attack
    Throw or Regular attack

    How to Use

    First, get MasterHand (Melee Character File Viewer). You won't really be able to figure out knockback values without it.
    Next, find a move you want to calculate stuff for. Then find a hitbox and put in the values. Pay attention to the comments in the spreadsheet, they'll let you know if there's anything not obvious.

    TO CALCULATE THROWS! In MasterHand, there are two hitboxes displayed for each throw. The one you want is labeled "Throw [Throw]." Input the data from that one, and make sure you put Yes under "Throw?" or the output will be wrong.

    Credits & Changelog

    Spreadsheet and extensive testing by Strong Bad
    All formulas from Magus420
    Testing by standardtoaster

    Changelog:

    v1.11
    -Bowser's PAL weight (118) added, he was always 117 regardless of which version was selected.

    v1.1
    -Smash Charge renamed to Interrupted Smash Charge to better reflect its purpose.
    -Staled damage no longer floored (artifact of a beta spreadsheet), leading to incorrect staled & post hit damage, which of course leads to incorrect values in most cases of staled hitbox calculation.
    -Stale Multiplier display fixed; it would always display 1 before. Didn't affect calculations though.

    v1.0
    -Initial build. About as solid as possible for a first build. Lemme know if anything's off or you feel needs clarification!
     
  2. Strong Bad

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    Formulas

    Knockback, Hitstun & Launch Speed

    For set knockback it's:
    {{[(WDSK * 10 * 0.05) + 1] * VictimKBMultB * 1.4 * [200 / (Weight + 100)] + 18} * (KBG * 0.01)} + BKB


    For normal KB it's:
    {{[(Total Damage * 0.1) + (Damage * Total Damage * 0.05)] * VictimKBMultB * 1.4 * [200 / (Weight + 100)] + 18} * (KBG * 0.01)} + BKB


    These are multipliers that are read from the Victim's data near the formula:
    VictimKBMultA - Unknown. Multiplier on hitbox damage before main KB Formula
    VictimKBMultB - Unknown. Multiplier Mid KB Formula
    VictimKBMultC - Hit During Smash Charge (1.2). Applied at the same time as Damage Ratio and MultiMan(?) Mult after the result of the main KB formula

    VictimKBMultA or VictimKBMultB haven't been seen as anything besides 1.

    Hitstun (hitlag counts as 1) = Knockback * 0.4
    Velocity = Knockback * 0.03

    Shieldstun

    floor{[(4.45 + Damage) / 2.235]}

    Damage = Staled damage
    floor means to round down

    Hitlag

    Hitlag = floor{floor{floor{(Damage * 0.3333334 + 3)} * Electric} * CC}

    Electric = 1.5 if the attack is of electric element. 1.0 at all times for attacker, however.

    CC = 2/3rd for victim only if victim is currently Crouch Canceling.

    Damage is, again, staled damage.
     
    thespymachine likes this.
  3. Strong Bad

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    Updated with formulas, and made the Google Doc's sheet public. Sorry about that!
     
  4. phish-it

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    Oh? Oho? I've been waiting for this.... This is big.


    Wait, you get sent farther if you get hit while charging a smash? Interesting.
     
  5. Strong Bad

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    Indeed. For proof, shine Sheik with Fox while she's charging a smash. She'll get knocked down, when she doesn't regularly. This is because the knockback (and therefore hitstun) she suffers is then above the tumble-threshold of 31 frames of hitstun, when it isn't before.
     
  6. Geenareeno

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    Thank you Strong Bad; for all your work.
     
  7. Kyu Puff

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    what do you enter for victim? it won't let me change from mario
     
  8. Strong Bad

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    there should be a dropdown bro. click on the cell, and then an arrow shows up to the right of that cell.
     
  9. Kyu Puff

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    when i click the dropdown, it just brings up a list of blank spaces...
     
  10. Strong Bad

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    which version did you DL?
     
  11. Kyu Puff

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    the excel spreadsheet

    thanks a lot for making this btw
     
  12. Strong Bad

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    which version of excel do you have?
     
  13. Kyu Puff

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  14. Grim Tuesday

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    Thanks soooo much for this, SB!
     
  15. Kimimaru

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    Thanks a lot for this! One question, though: If you're charging a smash and you get hit by a multi-hit move, would only the first hit send you flying farther?
     
  16. Strong Bad

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    Not sure, but I'd assume so.

    Updated with v1.1. Check OP for changelog.
     
  17. LLDL

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    Awesome stuff.

    I been thought of doing this but never got around to it.
     
  18. Purpletuce

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    Could unknown A and B be for either moves that do not have knowckback (So the reserved input of 1 could be replaced with a 0 should the KB need to be made 0) perhaps so moves without KB by default (pummels, 1st frame of Doc's Down-B, Fox lasers, Roy Up-B, etc.) or victims with a status inhibiting them from receiving KB (victim in grab or Yoshi's Egg from neutral B)

    Might also be used to form stage effects (being shot from barrel with hitstun but no damage) or Great Fox's lasers.

    I have no idea what I'm talking about, but this interests me. . . :\

    Feel free to ignore my ramblings. . . unless they seem interesting.
     
  19. Strong Bad

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    Updated with v1.11, fixed a minor booboo:
    Bowser's PAL weight (118) added, he was always 117 regardless of which version was selected.

    If I ever update this again I'll try to include smash charge for the attacker. Will take a bit of research, however.
     
  20. Stratocaster

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    Tried it out, and it's really neat. It took me a minute to figure out how to work some things like the stale move queue (after looking up a Magus post on how stale moves works it now makes sense and is straightforward).

    Anyway, this is really good work, someone with too much time on their hands could set up the spread sheet where the data is select-able without having to look it up. I know for mine at least I'll save some key ones in a new sheet for quick reference.

    Its too bad this is kinda limited in its usefulness though in all reality because DI and positioning has so much to do with combos.
     
  21. TerryJ

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    This is a beautiful piece of work, why didn't I find this earlier?
     
  22. SuperShus

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    Hey man I tried to google docs because I dont have office (microsoft sux and open office is cancer) but the dropdown menus didnt work for me. I'm on Firefox atm.
     
  23. Meru

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    Where can we find what the WDSK of a move is? And if there isn't some sort of list in place, how can we find out what it is for use in the set knockback equation?
     
  24. Strong Bad

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    It'll display in Master Hand if it's WDSK. WDSK > 0 means it uses weight dependent set knockback.
     
  25. Achilles1515

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    So I found the byte that can toggle metal textures on at anytime. Doing so does not change the character's weight or other attributes like the effect of getting a metal box item, but the character DOES suffer less knockback/hitstun.

    http://smashboards.com/threads/official-melee-texture-hack-thread.361190/page-14#post-17941686

    Could this be something involved with VictimKBMultB? Do you or Magus know where the knockback equation gets calculated in the game's code?
     
    #25 Achilles1515, Dec 23, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2014
    GunBlaze likes this.
  26. Achilles1515

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    Never mind. I just looked into it. If a player is Metal, then 30 is subtracted from the knockback they are about to receive. It's in the same function that checks to see if the player is crouching, or if they are charging a smash attack.
     
    #26 Achilles1515, Dec 24, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2014
    GunBlaze and Strong Bad like this.
  27. Strong Bad

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    Glad I could clear that up for ya bro
     
  28. Achilles1515

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    Is tumble hitstun greater-than 31 or greater-than-or-equal-to 31?
     
  29. tauKhan

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    Kb is the determining factor (hitstun is rounded). 80 is the threshold, so it's at least 32 frames of hitstun for tumble. I'm not sure whether precisely 80 kb results in tumble or not, but I think it does.
     
  30. Strong Bad

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    80 KB converts to 32 frames of hitstun (1 of which is when both the attacker and victim are suffering hitlag) and does cause tumble.
     
  31. Kyu Puff

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    I think I figured out what VictimKBMultA is... When Ice Climbers' neutral+B or down+B are staled, the hitbox damage is replaced by staled damage, rounded down, before calculating knockback (it affects the knockback calculation but not the actual damage dealt). This basically makes staled Ice Moves take a lot longer to freeze the opponent, since freezing happens if knockback exceeds 52.5. I don't know if this mechanic is present for any other moves though.
     
  32. Kyu Puff

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    Learned just now that articles stale more in KBG. Now everything makes sense. :)
     
    #32 Kyu Puff, Sep 22, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2015

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