Toad parade - Oh boy it's Els--- I mean, Rosalina

[FalKoopa]

By that logic, Lucas and Luigi should not have made it in the first place.

 

[YoshiandToad]

What exactly is the appeal of Toad? All he does is scream and run around panicking...or just serves as an npc. Toad is Peach's B, it is pretty obvious he's not getting in as a fighter especially when he is the epitome of a wimp. I also don't feel that just because he can be played when you have 3-4 players on the newest Mario game that he is deserving. King Buu/Buu or Bowser Jr before Toad any and every day of the week.


up b - Jumps twice while screaming + crying...in air, tears come out so fast it propells him upward
side b - screams horizontally while characters who hear it deal 350% more damage to Toad
down b - covers face with hands and cries
neut b - runs in circles while screaming until damaged

running a - doesnt cancel run but lets out a scream everytime u tap a
neut a x3 - screams, screams louder, screams even louder thereby damaging himself
side a tilt - cries, enemies who hear it deal 500% more knockback to Toad
up a tilt - looks up to the sky and screams and cries, rendering helpless for 5 seconds
down a tilt - fetal position when ducked, cries while fetal when d tilt a is used

up smash - 1UP generates for anyone besides himself
side smash - runs in direction used whilst crying until he meets resistance or runs off the stage
down smash - ROFCs, rolls on the floor crying.

up taunt - cries
side taunt - screams
down taunt - panicks


Can't wait till fellow Smash veterans feel his wrath.

Not sure why Buu from DBZ deserves to be in before Toad here.

Why Toad?
-Because he's a pint sized speedy powerhouse that kicked major butt in SMB2 and was easily one of the better characters within it.
-Kicked Wario's butt in Wario's Woods
-has saved the Princess several times now in the New Super Mario Bros. Wii/U games.
-He's a part of the Big 8 Mario cast, the most senior member of the cast
-5th most important Mario character overall
-Last playable protagonist(unless you count one off Nabbit)
-Hugely popular in Japan and fairly popular in the west
-One of the most worldly recognised video game characters of all time.
-Starring in Mario 3D World not only as one of the playable multiplayer characters, but also in his own mode.
-Interesting design. Isn't exactly going to be an obvious clone of any other character.
-Has enough Mario history to pull movesets from easily.

A lot of that cowardly nonsense can apply to Luigi as well who is also cowardly yet gets the chance to occasionally save the day, or indeed Boo whom you're arguing would be better. As soon as another fighter faces Boo, what's he gonna do? Hide his face?

 

[NeeBee]

^ like as a nintendo fan, you'd look past the fact that he spelt "buu" instead of boo, and realize he meant the ghost boo... gtfooooooooo plzzz

 

[YoshiandToad]

^ like as a nintendo fan, you'd look past the fact that he spelt "buu" instead of boo, and realize he meant the ghost boo... gtfooooooooo plzzz

As a Nintendo fan I would of thought they'd know how to spell the name of a character they were supporting personally.

Also I did realise hence why I talked about Boo after.

You GTFO. It's our character support thread.

 

[AEMehr]

I was reading the "Blue Toad being THE Toad" theory from a couple pages back. Sounds pretty plausible, when you don't count the official artwork for SMB2, Wario's Woods, and whatnot...

But it's something I would definitely love to see actually be true, since Toad is already primarily affiliated with the color Blue in pretty much every multiplayer game he is playable in and the Mario franchise really does need a character who can be visibly affiliated with the color (I don't really count Rosalina that much, she's got more of a baby / sky blue going on in her color scheme).

 

[Berserker.]

Dragonball Z?

Mother of God.

Well, Blue Toad is definitely our God

 

[Arcadenik]

This gif sums up how I feel about your post...

 

[Gimj]

Old DBZ days catching up to me there I guess.

Anyway, sure, Toad might have "feats" that make him seem on-par with other characters, but in reality he's not. Every major popular game I've seen or played, he was a personified as an everyday town person who lets you know that something bad has happened and how you should stop Bowser. You are right about his popularity though.

Also I just looked up Wario's Woods...it's a damn tetris game for crying out loud lmao. I guess Toad might be able to walk up walls as well, according to that game. That game is old and it really is like a game-game...not a game that directly shows his ability. And like I said, all this Toad-glory is coming from these newer Super Mario games as a side alternative character...which I don't feel makes him deserving in and of itself. He has not had his own game like Luigi. He has not consistently gone on Mario's exact adventure, even if he was/is afraid all the time, like Luigi. He has not saved Mario before, the most powerful character in the game, like Luigi.


The only way I see Toad be deserving is if he starts to be a pivotal or central character to the success of the story for the majority of games in the future. As of now, he simply does not seem like a vital character to any game.

Boo is a ghost. That in and of itself has endless possibilities. Regular Boos do hide their face, but even that could be imagined as his way of shielding. We have no characters in SSB that would be able to exploit the ability of a "supernatural" being like Boo. And if you really don't like Boo's hiding his face, then King Boo settles the matter. Bowser Jr speaks for himself, he's a very relevant and central character in a series of games. He has a paintbrush that could do things unseen in SSB, and his unique small but heavy style would be something. If there is one character to be in from Mario's games, it's him.

Toad really isn't as unique as you make him out to be in terms of how his body translates to a fighting game. He is simply a very small humanoid...with dinky arms and dinky feet (no legs). I can't see Toad using his feet or arms to fight, I don't care what anyone says. The one thing he has going for him is that dome of his, which may be the one unique thing about him. I don't think that saves him though in terms of how he could fight, all he would be able to do without looking weird is jump and use his head for every attack possible....or scream and panic like previously noted.

I do find it funny that I went to Luigi's Mansion on youtube to check if he saves Mario or not(it's been long) and saw Toad as an npc. This is what I mean.

 

[Arcadenik]

That's stupid. Just because Toad is a very small humanoid with dinky arms and feet (no legs) doesn't mean Toad cannot fight. Kirby and Jigglypuff have dinky arms and feet (no legs). R.O.B. doesn't even have feet, let alone legs. And you suggest Boo when he doesn't have feet or legs and he has dinky arms... how hypocritical.

Are you seriously discounting Wario's Woods just so you could say "Toad doesn't have his own game"?

At this point, Toad is now where Luigi used to be back in the pre-SSB64 days.... when Luigi was just 2P in the original Super Mario Bros. games... in this case, Toad is now 2P in the New Super Mario Bros. games. Toad is getting there, all right... he is bound to get his own game again sooner or later.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Old DBZ days catching up to me there I guess.

Anyway, sure, Toad might have "feats" that make him seem on-par with other characters, but in reality he's not. Every major popular game I've seen or played, he was a personified as an everyday town person who lets you know that something bad has happened and how you should stop Bowser. You are right about his popularity though.

Also I just looked up Wario's Woods...it's a damn tetris game for crying out loud lmao. I guess Toad might be able to walk up walls as well, according to that game. That game is old and it really is like a game-game...not a game that directly shows his ability. And like I said, all this Toad-glory is coming from these newer Super Mario games as a side alternative character...which I don't feel makes him deserving in and of itself. He has not had his own game like Luigi. He has not consistently gone on Mario's exact adventure, even if he was/is afraid all the time, like Luigi. He has not saved Mario before, the most powerful character in the game, like Luigi.


The only way I see Toad be deserving is if he starts to be a pivotal or central character to the success of the story for the majority of games in the future. As of now, he simply does not seem like a vital character to any game.

Boo is a ghost. That in and of itself has endless possibilities. Regular Boos do hide their face, but even that could be imagined as his way of shielding. We have no characters in SSB that would be able to exploit the ability of a "supernatural" being like Boo. And if you really don't like Boo's hiding his face, then King Boo settles the matter. Bowser Jr speaks for himself, he's a very relevant and central character in a series of games. He has a paintbrush that could do things unseen in SSB, and his unique small but heavy style would be something. If there is one character to be in from Mario's games, it's him.

Toad really isn't as unique as you make him out to be in terms of how his body translates to a fighting game. He is simply a very small humanoid...with dinky arms and dinky feet (no legs). I can't see Toad using his feet or arms to fight, I don't care what anyone says. The one thing he has going for him is that dome of his, which may be the one unique thing about him. I don't think that saves him though in terms of how he could fight, all he would be able to do without looking weird is jump and use his head for every attack possible....or scream and panic like previously noted.

I do find it funny that I went to Luigi's Mansion on youtube to check if he saves Mario or not(it's been long) and saw Toad as an npc. This is what I mean.

Get out.

 

[Pacack]

I would continue debating, btw, but I am unable to at the moment. Just able to lurk right now.

I apologize that my arguments were terrible, btw. I need more sleep.

 

[Sobreviviente]

I really love how everybody is crazy about toad for some reason xD makes me feel guilty for not want him for now.

 

[Arcadenik]

I am crazy about Toad because:

• I love Toad's design... I like the mushroom hat with colorful spots... I like the vest... and he looks so cute with these stubby arms and legs.
• Toad is badass adorable... no wonder Sakurai said it seems "out of place" for Toad to have superhuman strength.
• I liked playing as Toad in SMB2, especially in desert levels that involved lots of digging.... and in some levels where I can pull out lots of coins in one go (useful for getting extra lives in the slots mini-game).
• I liked playing as Toad in Mario Kart games... he is so fast and I love going fast in racing games.
• I liked Wario's Woods because I thought it was fun and challenging.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Old DBZ days catching up to me there I guess.

Anyway, sure, Toad might have "feats" that make him seem on-par with other characters, but in reality he's not. Every major popular game I've seen or played, he was a personified as an everyday town person who lets you know that something bad has happened and how you should stop Bowser. You are right about his popularity though.

Also I just looked up Wario's Woods...it's a damn tetris game for crying out loud lmao. I guess Toad might be able to walk up walls as well, according to that game. That game is old and it really is like a game-game...not a game that directly shows his ability. And like I said, all this Toad-glory is coming from these newer Super Mario games as a side alternative character...which I don't feel makes him deserving in and of itself. He has not had his own game like Luigi. He has not consistently gone on Mario's exact adventure, even if he was/is afraid all the time, like Luigi. He has not saved Mario before, the most powerful character in the game, like Luigi.


The only way I see Toad be deserving is if he starts to be a pivotal or central character to the success of the story for the majority of games in the future. As of now, he simply does not seem like a vital character to any game.

Boo is a ghost. That in and of itself has endless possibilities. Regular Boos do hide their face, but even that could be imagined as his way of shielding. We have no characters in SSB that would be able to exploit the ability of a "supernatural" being like Boo. And if you really don't like Boo's hiding his face, then King Boo settles the matter. Bowser Jr speaks for himself, he's a very relevant and central character in a series of games. He has a paintbrush that could do things unseen in SSB, and his unique small but heavy style would be something. If there is one character to be in from Mario's games, it's him.

Toad really isn't as unique as you make him out to be in terms of how his body translates to a fighting game. He is simply a very small humanoid...with dinky arms and dinky feet (no legs). I can't see Toad using his feet or arms to fight, I don't care what anyone says. The one thing he has going for him is that dome of his, which may be the one unique thing about him. I don't think that saves him though in terms of how he could fight, all he would be able to do without looking weird is jump and use his head for every attack possible....or scream and panic like previously noted.

I do find it funny that I went to Luigi's Mansion on youtube to check if he saves Mario or not(it's been long) and saw Toad as an npc. This is what I mean.

Now see. This is a far better post and I feel less venomous towards you now you've explained your stance like that. I understand your points(but for the record; Wario's Woods is kinda Toad's game; he did technically get his own game before Luigi even! I would recommend it if you get the chance too, it's very addictive.) which are clearly explained, and although I may not agree on all of them, they seem far less spiteful.

Okay, so in the case of Bowser Jr...I just don't like him. Not a great reason, I'm aware. But I don't underestimate his ability to be a Smasher. The paintbrush IS a unique item, but he could easily be a Bowser semi-clone. In Toad's case he's at worst case scenario going to be a mash up mix of the Mario Bros(with their various powerups perhaps) and Peach moveset wise(especially since Peach's B move IS Toad and Pluck was something Toad was really good at in SMB2).

Whilst I don't have a problem with King Boo(I'd be a supporter if Luigi repped his own series no doubt, I genuinely love the Luigi's Mansion games) I imagine his constant floating being an awkward thing to translate into Smash since unlike other floaties; Puff, Kirby and Dedede he never really truly lands. This would make KOing him insanely hard and I find it'd be an awkward translation to Smash itself. If you want to support King Boo I won't slate that but personally I'm in "King Boo for Boss" camp.

I'll finish this post later. Gotta head out for a bit.

 

[Sobreviviente]

I am crazy about Toad because:

• I love Toad's design... I like the mushroom hat with colorful spots... I like the vest... and he looks so cute with these stubby arms and legs.
• Toad is badass adorable... no wonder Sakurai said it seems "out of place" for Toad to have superhuman strength.
• I liked playing as Toad in SMB2, especially in desert levels that involved lots of digging.... and in some levels where I can pull out lots of coins in one go (useful for getting extra lives in the slots mini-game).
• I liked playing as Toad in Mario Kart games... he is so fast and I love going fast in racing games.
• I liked Wario's Woods because I thought it was fun and challenging.

Warios woods is one of my favorite games of all time, yes.
Never thought in toad being "badass adorable" and i still dont, but i guess xD

 

[AEMehr]

Never thought in toad being "badass adorable" and i still dont, but i guess xD

This sorta screams "badass adorable" to me.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

I am crazy about Toad because:

• I love Toad's design... I like the mushroom hat with colorful spots... I like the vest... and he looks so cute with these stubby arms and legs.
• Toad is badass adorable... no wonder Sakurai said it seems "out of place" for Toad to have superhuman strength.
• I liked playing as Toad in SMB2, especially in desert levels that involved lots of digging.... and in some levels where I can pull out lots of coins in one go (useful for getting extra lives in the slots mini-game).
• I liked playing as Toad in Mario Kart games... he is so fast and I love going fast in racing games.
• I liked Wario's Woods because I thought it was fun and challenging.

Toad's "Heh heh heh" from that game is the Nintendo equivalent of Nelson's "Haw haw!" laugh. It drives every Mario Kart racer crazy when racing against him in the Grand Prix Mode of any game past Mario Kart Wii. That alone proves that Toad is the biggest troll in the Mario universe.

 

[Sobreviviente]

This sorta screams "badass adorable" to me.

Not to me, and basically all the game can be considered like that xD

But this... this is just too... OMG *D*

 

[Gimj]

That's stupid. Just because Toad is a very small humanoid with dinky arms and feet (no legs) doesn't mean Toad cannot fight. Kirby and Jigglypuff have dinky arms and feet (no legs). R.O.B. doesn't even have feet, let alone legs. And you suggest Boo when he doesn't have feet or legs and he has dinky arms... how hypocritical.

Are you seriously discounting Wario's Woods just so you could say "Toad doesn't have his own game"?

At this point, Toad is now where Luigi used to be back in the pre-SSB64 days.... when Luigi was just 2P in the original Super Mario Bros. games... in this case, Toad is now 2P in the New Super Mario Bros. games. Toad is getting there, all right... he is bound to get his own game again sooner or later.

Allow me to elaborate. The only reason why I think Boo could still fight even though he has no feet is because of other factors intrinsic to the character that could "substitute." Like R.O.B, he doesn't have legs. But since R.O.B is a robot, he had the potential to use propulsion from his lower part as a "substitute" for legs. Another example would be Mewtwo, he has legs but doesn't kick. Why? He has a factor intrinsic to his design, namely psychokinesis. This is why I think there are ways for Boo to "kick" without legs. Instead of a down-air, for example, he could pause midair and look downwards, giving a scary face that paralyses them for an extended period of time(pseudo-meteorstrike). He has invisiblity, teleportation, possession, tounge, "fear" of being a ghost...there is plenty to go off. I agree that it would be more fitting to just make King Boo as a boss, but I can still easily see some potential in a moveset and he would just be a really different character.

Toad, on the other hand, really doesn't seem to have much going for in terms of intrinsic factors of his design. Kirby is very different, when he punches he uses Knuckle Joe's tactics thereby making little energy come from his punches to make up for it. Kirby also is very malleable and his feet are not really small, so I don't think Toad can necessarily be compared.

I agree that Toad is "on his way" to becoming a Luigi-esque character. That's why I say as of now, I don't think he should be in. Maybe if he got his own game that gave him some abilities to be used in "substitute" of his shortcomings, I could see it.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I was going to edit my post, but since the conversation has moved on since, it seems like it'd be a waste; the points I was working on have been covered either for or against Toad.

Regarding Toads arms and legs: I agree Toad's skull should be the thing to use for most his A attacks, but those little feet have proven to outspeed Mario and Luigi(which...by the way, am I the only one who thinks it odd that the shorter the legs you have in Mario, the better at running you are? Toad>Mario>Luigi>Peach in terms of speed...Yoshi wrecks this though, but Jr. is also quite speedy and stubby.)

My problem with King Boo is he's a technical nightmare, and that he's super unimportant. Like less so than Toad. For the Mario series anyway.
When Luigi's Mansion becomes it's own recognised series within Smash, King Boo it up.
He would be very different, I'll agree to this, but I still can't see how the usually invincible, constantly floating/able to fly King Boo would make for a great balanced character in a game where you need to punch and kick enemies off ledges to win, whilst I can see speedy and powerful Toad being balanced due to his light frame and poor jumping skills.

Also I just watched the King Boo boss fight of the Dark Moon games...he hides his face still when you look at him and then disappears. In the original game he hides in a Bowser suit.

Regardless currently the future for Toad is looking rather bright: He's been playable far more since Brawl in the main Mario games and with 3D World coming out I'm hoping this is going to give him the additional boost.

Will he be in Smash?

Maybe. Maybe is very much what my gut is telling me. I have no idea if he'll get in, it's been looking unlikely, but with model alterations made to the capsules it's still not out the realm of possibility Sakurai is hiding him. Or maybe he's not! Hell if we know, but being a Toad fan is far more interesting at current than being a fan of 90% the other popular candidates. We actually have things to discuss!

Although at times it may seem like I'm ranting that I believe Toad IS going to make the cut, I assure you all, I'm actually ranting that Toad is WORTHY of making the cut and a pretty cool guy all around.

 

[Forcerounds]

Perhaps the biggest thing some people don't understand about Toad is his move set potential. I don't feel like addressing opponents who think that Toad won't fight directly, so I'll dedicate this post to describing how I think Sakurai could design a unique character out of the guy.

Indeed, Toad's role in many installments is very passive, but having a non-violent role in your series of origin is no longer an issue for newcomers in Smash 4. The Villager doesn't fight in the Animal Crossing series, but due to popularity and uniqueness, Sakurai made a very compelling character for this new game. How did he do it? By basing the Villager on a concept associated with his series of origin. In the Developer Direct, Sakurai says that because the point of Animal Crossing is to collect, the villager uses many things, and even has a pick up move that can collect just about anything. The Wii Fit Trainer also plays according to the concept of fitness present in the gameplay of Wii Fit. That said, any character that is iconic and popular has move set potential if there is a concept from the series of origin to work off of. This has allowed Captain Falcon to remain a playable character in this series forever.

What's Toad's concept? When Toad is platforming along side the Mario brothers, what features make him unique? When Toad is not a playable character, what purpose does he have for being around? Well, there's SMB2 to work off of as the first step. In that game, Toad is the fastest character, can pluck things out of the ground more quickly, and is comparatively faster when holding a heavy object, but his jumping is lacking compared to the other characters. Good. This can be translated into Super Smash Bros. really easily. Toad will be faster than Mario, will have a lower jump height than Peach, and will have strong grab moves with the additional ability to carry his victim around like Donkey Kong. Unfortunately, these features only appear in one game. Toad doesn't play any differently in New Super Mario Bros. Wii/U, and is merely just fast in 3D World. Yet, the SMB2 model is a great start to move on from. There's also Wario's Woods to consider. One common element between Wario's Woods, SMB2, and SM3DW is the ability to pick up and throw bombs. So naturally, one of Toad's special moves can/should/will involve bombs. The rest of Toad's move set can actually be invented through a concept that is associated with his non-violent roles.

In most games Toad appears in, Toad is the greatest ally of the Mario Bros, and when not playable, provides essential assistance to the player's survival or progression throughout many Mario games. How does he assist? Power-ups and items. TONS of Power-ups and items. Despite never going through the levels themselves, in SMB3 and the New Super Mario Bros. games, Toads have amassed an impressive amount of power-ups, and some of them are rare. In fact, most of them are not currently in Mario and Luigi's move sets despite being iconic features of the Mario platforming games. And with Toads being playable in New Super Mario Bros. games and Super Mario 3D World, he even uses most of them. Therefor, Toad's association with the power-ups is a window of opportunity to design a unique character in a fighting game. Here's a summary of what we've learned so far:

1. Toad's unique play style in Super Mario Bros. 2 is the basis for his performance compared to Mario, Luigi, and Peach in a Super Smash Bros. game.
2. Toad has a strong, iconic association with power-ups in the Super Mario Bros. series.
3. Toad has access to, and even uses power-ups in Mario games that are not included in the move sets of Mario and Luigi.

So here is a basic move set to demonstrate this concept. All of Toad's special moves here make reference to games where Toad is playable.
--
Neutral B: Ice Ball- As a character that is given the honor of platforming on par with the Mario bros, it is also acceptable for Toad to use a similar projectile to the Fire Ball. The Ice Ball sinks to the ground faster than the Fire Ball, and does not travel very far after it bounces. It also has a chance of freezing. The Ice Flower most prominently appears in New Super Mario Bros. Wii and U, where Toads are playable characters.

Up B: Propeller Mushroom- Toad's most reliable form of vertical recovery considering he can't jump very high. Sends Toad up vertically, can hit an opponent multiple times if close enough, and does little damage. After reaching peak height, Toad can glide down gently like Peach, or press down to fall. This power up debuted in New Super Mario Bros. Wii, where Toads were playable.

Forward B: Cat Toad- Toad transforms into Cat Toad and dashes forward with his paws very quickly. This move performs differently on the ground and in the air. On the ground, Toad dashes forward normally, and the attack hits the opponents upwards. In the air, Toad dashes down at an angle like he does in Super Mario 3D World (where he's playable and totally rocks this power up btw).

Down B: Bombs- Toad plucks a bomb out of the ground similar to Peach's vegetable pluck. In contrast to Link's bombs, Toad's bombs do not explode as soon as they hit something. They go off after a certain amount of time passes after it spawns into Toad's hand. Three bombs can be spawned on the stage at a time. When on the ground, the bombs can be moved by grabbing them as items or hitting them with attacks, which will make them slide on the platform in the direction they are hit. When a bomb explodes, it will do less damage than one of Link's bombs on its own. HOWEVER, as a reference to Wario's Woods, when all three bombs are right next to each other, they explode immediately and with tremendous force.


Like Peach's Vegetable move, Toad has a small chance of picking up a bob-omb, beam sword, or Mr. Saturn. He also has a small chance of picking up a small SMB2 turnip that does 1% damage, or a pumpkin that does the same amount of damage as a bomb, but explodes upon impact.

With enough skill, this move can perform differently in the air. If Toad is in the air and is on top of another character when using this move, he will perform a grab underneath himself and toss the opponent overhead in the direction he's facing, which is something Toad can do in SMB2.


Dash: Penguin Suit- Toad quickly transforms into his Penguin suit form, and slides on his belly for a short distance. It hits multiple times. Toad can use this ability in New Super Mario Bros. Wii and U.

Possible Additional abilities:

Wall Jump: Because he can do it in New Super Mario Bros. Wii and Wii U.

Flying Squirrel Suit Gliding: Not necessary, but he can do it in New Super Mario Bros. Wii U.

--

So there should be no more room for debate regarding Toad's ability and basis for being in a fighting game. It's there and perhaps been right underneath your nose. The issue of Toad's limb length is not an issue in Super Smash Bros. Mario's character design is not based off of punching, so in Super Mario 64 and Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2, Mario's fists expand in size when punching or doing a spin attack to add more to Mario's range and make it look like it has more impact. Mario's normal moves in the Super Smash Bros. series has always done this too. There's no reason why Toad would not undergo the same treatment for his normal attacks. And mushrooms would have more flexibility in this sort of thing wouldn't you think?

 

[Gimj]

Perhaps the biggest thing some people don't understand about Toad is his move set potential. I don't feel like addressing opponents who think that Toad won't fight directly, so I'll dedicate this post to describing how I think Sakurai could design a unique character out of the guy.

Indeed, Toad's role in many installments is very passive, but having a non-violent role in your series of origin is no longer an issue for newcomers in Smash 4. The Villager doesn't fight in the Animal Crossing series, but due to popularity and uniqueness, Sakurai made a very compelling character for this new game. How did he do it? By basing the Villager on a concept associated with his series of origin. In the Developer Direct, Sakurai says that because the point of Animal Crossing is to collect, the villager uses many things, and even has a pick up move that can collect just about anything. The Wii Fit Trainer also plays according to the concept of fitness present in the gameplay of Wii Fit. That said, any character that is iconic and popular has move set potential if there is a concept from the series of origin to work off of. This has allowed Captain Falcon to remain a playable character in this series forever.

What's Toad's concept? When Toad is platforming along side the Mario brothers, what features make him unique? When Toad is not a playable character, what purpose does he have for being around? Well, there's SMB2 to work off of as the first step. In that game, Toad is the fastest character, can pluck things out of the ground more quickly, and is comparatively faster when holding a heavy object, but his jumping is lacking compared to the other characters. Good. This can be translated into Super Smash Bros. really easily. Toad will be faster than Mario, will have a lower jump height than Peach, and will have strong grab moves with the additional ability to carry his victim around like Donkey Kong. Unfortunately, these features only appear in one game. Toad doesn't play any differently in New Super Mario Bros. Wii/U, and is merely just fast in 3D World. Yet, the SMB2 model is a great start to move on from. There's also Wario's Woods to consider. One common element between Wario's Woods, SMB2, and SM3DW is the ability to pick up and throw bombs. So naturally, one of Toad's special moves can/should/will involve bombs. The rest of Toad's move set can actually be invented through a concept that is associated with his non-violent roles.

In most games Toad appears in, Toad is the greatest ally of the Mario Bros, and when not playable, provides essential assistance to the player's survival or progression throughout many Mario games. How does he assist? Power-ups and items. TONS of Power-ups and items. Despite never going through the levels themselves, in SMB3 and the New Super Mario Bros. games, Toads have amassed an impressive amount of power-ups, and some of them are rare. In fact, most of them are not currently in Mario and Luigi's move sets despite being iconic features of the Mario platforming games. And with Toads being playable in New Super Mario Bros. games and Super Mario 3D World, he even uses most of them. Therefor, Toad's association with the power-ups is a window of opportunity to design a unique character in a fighting game. Here's a summary of what we've learned so far:

1. Toad's unique play style in Super Mario Bros. 2 is the basis for his performance compared to Mario, Luigi, and Peach in a Super Smash Bros. game.
2. Toad has a strong, iconic association with power-ups in the Super Mario Bros. series.
3. Toad has access to, and even uses power-ups in Mario games that are not included in the move sets of Mario and Luigi.

So here is a basic move set to demonstrate this concept. All of Toad's special moves here make reference to games where Toad is playable.
--
Neutral B: Ice Ball- As a character that is given the honor of platforming on par with the Mario bros, it is also acceptable for Toad to use a similar projectile to the Fire Ball. The Ice Ball sinks to the ground faster than the Fire Ball, and does not travel very far after it bounces. It also has a chance of freezing. The Ice Flower most prominently appears in New Super Mario Bros. Wii and U, where Toads are playable characters.

Up B: Propeller Mushroom- Toad's most reliable form of vertical recovery considering he can't jump very high. Sends Toad up vertically, can hit an opponent multiple times if close enough, and does little damage. After reaching peak height, Toad can glide down gently like Peach, or press down to fall. This power up debuted in New Super Mario Bros. Wii, where Toads were playable.

Forward B: Cat Toad- Toad transforms into Cat Toad and dashes forward with his paws very quickly. This move performs differently on the ground and in the air. On the ground, Toad dashes forward normally, and the attack hits the opponents upwards. In the air, Toad dashes down at an angle like he does in Super Mario 3D World (where he's playable and totally rocks this power up btw).

Down B: Bombs- Toad plucks a bomb out of the ground similar to Peach's vegetable pluck. In contrast to Link's bombs, Toad's bombs do not explode as soon as they hit something. They go off after a certain amount of time passes after it spawns into Toad's hand. Three bombs can be spawned on the stage at a time. When on the ground, the bombs can be moved by grabbing them as items or hitting them with attacks, which will make them slide on the platform in the direction they are hit. When a bomb explodes, it will do less damage than one of Link's bombs on its own. HOWEVER, as a reference to Wario's Woods, when all three bombs are right next to each other, they explode immediately and with tremendous force.


Like Peach's Vegetable move, Toad has a small chance of picking up a bob-omb, beam sword, or Mr. Saturn. He also has a small chance of picking up a small SMB2 turnip that does 1% damage, or a pumpkin that does the same amount of damage as a bomb, but explodes upon impact.

With enough skill, this move can perform differently in the air. If Toad is in the air and is on top of another character when using this move, he will perform a grab underneath himself and toss the opponent overhead in the direction he's facing, which is something Toad can do in SMB2.


Dash: Penguin Suit- Toad quickly transforms into his Penguin suit form, and slides on his belly for a short distance. It hits multiple times. Toad can use this ability in New Super Mario Bros. Wii and U.

Possible Additional abilities:

Wall Jump: Because he can do it in New Super Mario Bros. Wii and Wii U.

Flying Squirrel Suit Gliding: Not necessary, but he can do it in New Super Mario Bros. Wii U.

--

So there should be no more room for debate regarding Toad's ability and basis for being in a fighting game. It's there and perhaps been right underneath your nose. The issue of Toad's limb length is not an issue in Super Smash Bros. Mario's character design is not based off of punching, so in Super Mario 64 and Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2, Mario's fists expand in size when punching or doing a spin attack to add more to Mario's range and make it look like it has more impact. Mario's normal moves in the Super Smash Bros. series has always done this too. There's no reason why Toad would not undergo the same treatment for his normal attacks. And mushrooms would have more flexibility in this sort of thing wouldn't you think?

WARNING! CHALLENGER APPROACHING: Super Mario Bros 2 Power-Ups!

That is the red flag that came up after reading it. At least he has the ability to pick up bombs...at the very least. To me, this seems like he brought absolutely nothing to the table that others could not have/already have. This is exactly why I don't see the appeal of Toad in particular. Ice, Propeller, Cat, Wall Jump, and Flying Squirrel(your whole moveset besides grab) are not unique to Toad nor are essential to his character. Replace every occurrence of Toad in your post with Mario and tell me if it is not a perfect fit(besides his one "unique" ability of picking bombs...scratch that Mario can do it as well to a degree). Sorry to say but you just tacked on powerups to Toad and called it a day. I do like your moveset though and I'm puzzled as to why Mario doesn't have any of the newer powerups. I digress.

Your limb-growth argument is valid it seems, however don't you feel it is a bit unfortunate how 95% of Toad's capabilities are paralleled with Mario? All I see Toad as is a filler character or npc, nothing more nothing less. Sorry but all you seem to be doing is adding a faster but badly-jumping version of Mario that uses powerups. It would be a waste of a Mario rep to put him in over Bowser Jr, a PIVOTAL, ESSENTIAL character to MANY plots with a splash of uniqueness. In terms of the moveset alone on a SSB standpoint, it IS UNIQUE and I give you that no doubt. It's just Mario could literally have his entire moveset without one single problem whatsoever.

So again I wonder, what can Toad do? Not "What can characters in Super Mario Bros do?"

 

[Arcadenik]

You know, Toad using power-ups as moves in Smash make sense... Toads are always minding Toad Houses that hold power-ups. Sometimes Toads tutor Mario and Luigi how to use items (see: Super Mario RPG) or moves (see: Mario & Luigi games). Sakurai could justify it by saying Toad experimented with the power-ups at the Toad Houses whenever Mario is not around.... kinda like how Sakurai said Paula and Kumatora taught Ness and Lucas how to use their moves even though they couldn't use those games in the actual games... difference is, Toads were actually shown using those items or performing those moves in various games.

 

[AEMehr]

WARNING! CHALLENGER APPROACHING: Super Mario Bros 2 Power-Ups!

That is the red flag that came up after reading it. At least he has the ability to pick up bombs...at the very least. To me, this seems like he brought absolutely nothing to the table that others could not have/already have. This is exactly why I don't see the appeal of Toad in particular. Ice, Propeller, Cat, Wall Jump, and Flying Squirrel(your whole moveset besides grab) are not unique to Toad nor are essential to his character. Replace every occurrence of Toad in your post with Mario and tell me if it is not a perfect fit(besides his one "unique" ability of picking bombs...scratch that Mario can do it as well to a degree). Sorry to say but you just tacked on powerups to Toad and called it a day. I do like your moveset though and I'm puzzled as to why Mario doesn't have any of the newer powerups. I digress.

Your limb-growth argument is valid it seems, however don't you feel it is a bit unfortunate how 95% of Toad's capabilities are paralleled with Mario? All I see Toad as is a filler character or npc, nothing more nothing less. Sorry but all you seem to be doing is adding a faster but badly-jumping version of Mario that uses powerups. It would be a waste of a Mario rep to put him in over Bowser Jr, a PIVOTAL, ESSENTIAL character to MANY plots with a splash of uniqueness. In terms of the moveset alone on a SSB standpoint, it IS UNIQUE and I give you that no doubt. It's just Mario could literally have his entire moveset without one single problem whatsoever.

So again I wonder, what can Toad do? Not "What can characters in Super Mario Bros do?"

These "abilities" may not be unique to Toad in Super Mario Brothers, but they would be unique to Toad in Smash Brothers. Which is basically the important thing here.

You can make Toad an interesting character through the use of Power-Ups, there's the originality that you've been saying Toad lacks.

 

[Bowserlick]

Toad has his own power-up. The Golden Mushroom. Perfect side B. Toad can zoom forward and even scale walls while running as a throwback to Wario Woods.

I also think that Toad (being the best plucker in SMB2) should be able to pluck items such as a Pow block and even opponent's in the air in order to hold them above his head and toss them.

I would even throw in the crouching power-up as a mechanic. When Toad crouches, the dots of his shroom flash which leads to a higher vertical jump out of the crouch.

Smash and sport games have made spores another option.

But loading up Toad with other power-ups does seem like overkill. The ice ball really seems out of place.

 

[Forcerounds]

It's just Mario could literally have his entire moveset without one single problem whatsoever.

Unfortunately for your argument, Mario doesn't use these power-ups in his move set, and he probably never will. He could, but he doesn't. Toad can, and it would be an appropriate fit for his character because as someone who is NOTABLY playable in the games where these power-ups are present, AND as a distributor of these power-ups in Toad Houses, there is no better character that these power-ups could be "tacked on" to.

PK Fire and PK Thunder were "tacked on" to Ness, who does not actually use these moves in Earthbound. Paula uses them, but she doesn't get a character slot, does she? Why? Perhaps Ness is the more iconic, popular, and important rep for the Mother series despite being mostly limited to support-based PSI moves in his game. Perhaps in addition for being more important to the Mother series, the fact his character is strongly associated with the concept of PSI from the Mother series and the fact that he CAN use offensive PSI makes it acceptable for him to have PK Fire and PK Thunder in his move set. There was no better character for those moves to be "tacked on" to.

 

[Gimj]

I guess it does make sense to have Toad be the "power-up" rep since Toads do bear and distribute them often. It seems instinctive to me that Mario should be the one to represent such a major facet of the game you know? I just think power-ups as a moveset is a little generic, seeing as how every character can use them. But as mentioned earlier, I guess it does fit to put all the power-ups on the power-up bearer. Now that I think about it, it would be pretty good advertising/homage to the series history if he had all those newer power-ups; representing one of the most fun parts of the Mario games. It just gets to me how growing up Toad was just the annoying and weak npc; which I feel is what the true Toad is. Things do change however, and I guess my opinion has as well.


When representing the power-ups of the series, I could definitely see Toad being included now. Despite all this, I still prefer Jr over him. Bowser Jr was awesome and different since Sunshine. Not to mention DK + Diddy vs Bowser + Jr.


Forgive my criticism of Toad, he's just annoyed me my whole childhood. >_>.......wait a second....TOAD FOR SMASH4 PLZ!

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

So did Toad get a contender with Rosalina now?

I've been quite pessimistic about his chances still but you know, I could see Sakurai actually setting us up for Rosalina as the character reveal- maybe because "WTF"-factor and perhaps relevancy to SMG-games' fame.

 

[BluePikmin11]

At this point:
Toad > Rosalina > Bowser Jr. > Paper Mario

 

[Pacack]

At this point:
Toad > Rosalina > Bowser Jr. > Paper Mario

I would disagree.

If anything, it's
Toad > Bowser Jr. > Rosalina > Paper Mario
or
Toad > Bowser Jr. > Paper Mario > Rosalina

EDIT: Also, sudden realization...Toad could still be used to advertise Mario Party: Island Tour since he's a playable character whenever he's revealed. He doesn't have to use SM3DW

 

[Arcadenik]

Just what Toad needed... More competition. It was bad enough that he had to contend with characters based on Mario, Luigi, and Bowser... Now he has to contend with a character based on Peach. On top of being part of Peach's moveset.

It is not easy being a Toad fan/supporter.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Toad and Rosalina both have one thing no other Mario Candidate has. Both are/will be playable in a mainstream Mario game as opposed to BJ, Daisy and Walugi's spin-off only playability.

I'm a Rosalina supporter myself but I bear no ill against the Mushroom men and want to see what he/they can do. There's some hope for him yet, even if it ends up being spelt D-L-C.

 

[Pacack]

Toad and Rosalina both have one thing no other Mario Candidate has. Both are/will be playable in a mainstream Mario game as opposed to BJ, Daisy and Walugi's spin-off only playability.

I'm a Rosalina supporter myself but I bear no ill against the Mushroom men and want to see what he/they can do. There's some hope for him yet, even if it ends up being spelt D-L-C.

I honestly think Rosalina would be an absolutely perfect fit for DLC (I actually love Rosalina, I just love toad ten times more)!

Though, is there really any reason for Rosalina to be added in over Toad? Maybe if request surge, but I don't really see that happening.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I think they're equal in terms of moveset potential (Toad using Old Mario Power-ups and Rosalina using Mario Galaxy attacks/moves) so it'd be in the hands of the ever mysterious Sakurai.

We have whole threads dedicated to trying to figure that man out and they haven't gotten anywhere.

 

[Pacack]

I think they're equal in terms of moveset potential (Toad using Old Mario Power-ups and Rosalina using Mario Galaxy attacks/moves) so it'd be in the hands of the ever mysterious Sakurai.

We have whole threads dedicated to trying to figure that man out and they haven't gotten anywhere.

While I do think Toad has a little bit more moveset potential, I basically agree. Sakurai's the guy here.

(I only say that Toad has more due to him having his own game and him having more previous games to pull from than Rosalina.)

 

[Arcadenik]

I think they're equal in terms of moveset potential (Toad using Old Mario Power-ups and Rosalina using Mario Galaxy attacks/moves) so it'd be in the hands of the ever mysterious Sakurai.

We have whole threads dedicated to trying to figure that man out and they haven't gotten anywhere.

What if Toad represents New Super Mario Bros. games and Rosalina represents Super Mario Galaxy games? Toad could use power-ups and abilities from NSMB games and Rosalina could use power-ups and abilities from SMG games.

 

[Inawordyes]

I would actually be fine with both Toad and Rosalina as DLC as long as there is DLC and at least Toad is included in that if not in the game proper. Both hold more relevance and actual playable status in mainstream games as compared to Bowser Jr., Waluigi and Daisy, which is why, like others, I'd now be putting Rosalina's chances above them all - especially due to her large status in not one but two mainstream games, and a third that she is now playable in, albeit as an unlockable bonus extra. She even has Galaxy-themed attacks as her specials, which sets her apart from Peach, so I could see her being at least semi-unique if she were to ever grace the Smash world with her Luma-inous presence - but Toad takes precedence first and foremost, and he has the potential to be a very unique character, unlike Jr., Daisy, and even Rosalina to a certain extent, who would likely be clones of Bowser and Peach, respectively; and Waluigi, who has the potential to be unique, but has never even been in any mainstream game period, and doesn't have the positive recognition to warrant a playable spot at this point, especially compared to the others. Paper Mario is, of course, a very possible contender as well, but still suffers from being Mario in Game & Watch form basically, and despite the potential for great uniqueness, this would likely get lost in translation as has been the case with several characters being clones of another (Falcondorf, anyone?), and I personally don't have high hopes, though it would be awesome.

 

[Pacack]

What if Toad represents New Super Mario Bros. games and Rosalina represents Super Mario Galaxy games? Toad could use power-ups and abilities from NSMB games and Rosalina could use power-ups and abilities from SMG games.

Are you suggesting we get both?

 

[YoshiandToad]

Actually is it bad I'm just glad that the secret 5th character wasn't either Yellow Toad(even as a Toad fan we've got TWO already playable in the game) or Nabbit?

But looks like the Smash community may need to consider Rosalina a more likely addition now she's actually been playable in a platformer. More than what Waluigi and Daisy have done. Rosalina's one of those characters I don't particularly dislike for Smash, but as one of the Toad Brigade's more vocal members;

DEATH TO ROSALINA I would still prefer Toad to the secret 5th playable. Or 6th. Not really sure what Captain Toad counts as now.

Pro Toad this week: Models are subject to alteration! Toadsworth shield is looking slightly liklier than it was since Peach's reveal and thus freeing Toad from her tyrannical clutches. Say what you want about Bowser being a bad boss but at least he doesn't throw a Koopa Troopa into the enemies attack.

Anti Toad this week: Rosalina is now ALSO a playable protagonist in the SM3DW game! A NEW CHALLENGER APPROACHES. Add her to the list of serious contenders with Bowser Jr., Waluigi and Paper Mario.

It's only Wednesday too.

The life of a Toad supporter continues to be a rollercoaster week by week.

My expectations for the rest of the week:
Sakurai will release a statement that a royal guard will be revealed to be playable in Smash. We will be excited. The Bandanna Dee supporters will get excited.
Friday's reveal: Luma joins the battle! No sign of Rosalina as playable either. Just Luma. Everyone groans. Chandelure tells Sakurai he's next. I agree with him. We are both immedietly arrested.

That should keep us going until next week at least.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Both Rosie and Toad together would be beyond sweet. On the other hand I wouldn't mind Rosie if she got in instead- I dig her quite a lot too.