digifreak642
Smash Journeyman
Time to mega bump this... People are discussing Bowser Jr. Vs. Toad in the waluigi thread.... And this is a more suitable place. Go Toad!
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Toad Discussion
- Thread starter Falco101
- Start date
Brawlmatt202
Smash Champion
Red_Maniac
Smash Lord
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- May 30, 2006
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- SeeJayC
Thank you.
And I agree with you. Bowser Jr. is just... I just don't like him. And in my opinion, he's even more unoriginal than Waluigi. He's just Baby Bowser with a giant paintbrush.
Toad is a popular choice, but what would his moves be like? Has anyone posted a moveset here yet?
Numa Dude
Smash Lord
He has a good chance and he could be a cool character but I still think Bowser jr. has a better chance. If someone can convince me of why Toad is so much better then I'll change my mind.
Since I'm assuming you didn't read the last few pages, I feel obligated to post this again.
The following was posted by a user on the Gamewinners forums. Please have patience while reading this.
Table of Contents
I. Introduction
II. Importance Intro
Nintendo/Famicon
Super Nintendo/Super Famicon
Nintendo 64 General
Mario Party Series
Gamecube General
Hand-Held General
Super Princess Peach
Other Media
III. Popularity
IV. Toad vs. Toadsworth
V. Q&A
VI. Moveset
Introduction
Some may ask, why Toad? Well, Toad's importance, popularity, and chances of getting in SSBB surpass that of any Mario character not already in SSBB. Mario and Wario are already confirmed. Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Yoshi, and DK, if someone can explain why they’d be axed, then I’d accept Toad not getting in. The only one not standing in Toad’s way is Dr. Mario, because he’s nothing more than an alternate form of Mario, with cloned moves nonetheless. With this, I’ll explain Toad’s history in the Marioverse, as well as his history in Media in the form of popularity. I’ll also answer some of the most common questions asked about/argued against Toad. Finally, I’ll show you the moveset I made, to show an example of how Toad might work.
Importance Intro
First off, let’s look at his importance. Toad is extremely under-appreciated when it comes to how important he was to the Marioverse. He’s been around since the beginning, has earned a place in Mario Stardom, has had his own game, etc. Throughout this entire group of sections, you’ll see why Toad is important enough to be in SSBB.
Nintendo/Famicom
To get things started for Toad’s career, he was at the end of every castle to deliver you a message in the original Super Mario Bros (except for the final castle, where Peach was waiting for Mario.) At the time, Toad was known quite simply as one of the “Mushroom Retainers.” The message he gave today is one of Toad’s most famous lines. The message itself was ”Thank you Mario, but our Princess is in another castle!”
In the sequel of the sequel, Super Mario Bros 3, Toad played a similar role, with a few additions. Instead of telling you where the Princess wasn’t, Toad would tell you that the king had been transformed, and that you needed to find the Magic Wand to change him back. In addition to that, he ran the item house’s and the mini-games.
To go a little backwards now, he was also one of four playable/main characters in Super Mario Bros 2, a remake of the Japanese Doki Doki Panic. He starred along with Mario, Luigi, and Peach. He was the strongest AND the fastest of the characters, being able to lift items with ease, and zip through stages like a rabbit. He got a full 5 stars in each of those. To counter-act that, his jumping was horrendous, getting only 2 stars.
So, let’s do a quick summary. You may be wondering why he’s important with 3 games, especially considering he was only playable in 1. Well consider this, with the exception of SMB2, the only characters to be playable in any Mario game on the NES was Luigi and Mario himself. Not only Toad but Peach as well first became playable in SMB2.
Super Nintendo/Super Famicom
Despite being absent from Super Mario World and Super Mario World 2, Toad still managed to stay strong on the SNES. If nothing, he became strong (importance wise) with the SNES.
To start out with a bang, I’ll go ahead and bring up THAT. Oh yes, you know what it is, Wario’s Woods. This game featured Toad, as the main character, and the only playable character. And what else does this mean? Toad was put into the star of his own game before characters like Luigi, Peach, and Bowser.
He also appeared (as Kinopio) in Super Mario RPG. He helped you get the game started on the way to Mushroom Kingdom. After that, he spent most of the time in the Castle Throne Room with the Chancellor. He also instructed you on how to play the mini-games, and finally, ran an item shop in Smithy’s Factory. His most memorable part in this game was his famous bazooka quote, which many speculate could be an attack for Toad.
He also appeared along with Mario, Luigi, Peach, Yoshi, Bowser, DK Jr, and Koopa as a playable character in Super Mario Kart, starting off something, which I’ll get more in depth with later. He was also a character in the Japanese Mario Excitebike, along with Mario, Luigi, Peach, Wario, and Koopa Troopa, which should being saying something significant, he got in before Yoshi and Bowser.
To summarize this, Toad received a lot on the SNES. He got his own game, for one thing. He got recognition, considering that SMRPG recognized Toad as his own character, not just another random part of a race of creatures. And finally, he was obviously popular, considering his appearances in spin-offs.
Nintendo 64 General
Toad appeared in SM64, mostly sitting around the castle and telling you that they needed help, although, he also handed over a couple power stars. Also, in the DS remake, he returned the characters hat whenever it was lost.
He also appeared in the N64 RPG, Paper Mario, as a generic species. Some assume that the Toad hiding in the closet in Peach's Castle is Kinopio, but nothing is certain. Another more specific Toad included The Master, a Toad with supreme martial arts skills, whom you fought 3 times as an extra boss in the Dojo. And on another note, you also receive a post card from a Toad being shown in a Martial Arts uniform and throwing a punch, basically proving Toad’s can fight.
Mario Kart, I said I’d get back to this. The 8 characters in Mario Kart 64 were classified as the Big 8, being the 8 characters that appeared the most in Mario games and were the most popular of the Mario characters. And just look where they are now. Wario, DK, and Yoshi all have separate franchises from Mario. Luigi, Peach, and Toad have all gotten their own games. Bowser has been a constant reoccurring villain, and Mario is…Mario. And on one more note, he's been in EVERY Mario Kart game to date, beating out big names like Wario and DK for the SNES version. And he was even was in the Arcade version, Mario Kart GP, with Pac-man, and is confirmed for the arcade sequal.
On one final note, Toad was playable in Mario Tennis (as well as the original Mario Tennis for the Virtual Boy.) And to summarize the rest of this up, Toad was in the only cannon game for the N64, as well as the only sub-cannon game. He had a good amount of spin-off roles as well, considering his success in the Mario Kart franchise. Oh yeah, and don’t forget Mario Party, where Toad got another big push.
Mario Party Series
One of Toad’s most notable spin-off roles, other than Mario Kart, was in the Mario Party games. In the beginning of Mario Party, it says Mario is with his 6 best friends (who, coincidently, are the other 6 members of the Big 8 minus Bowser, though he was in it as well as the villain.) Toad was the host of the entire game, selling you the stars. Probably most importantly, he served as the final "boss" in mini-games Island. After defeating Slot Car Derby, the final mini-game, Toad would challenge you for one more round of Slot Car Derby. His skill in that game surpassed anyone's, which led some to believe that he was the greatest racer in the Marioverse. He played a host role in the next MP, but really didn't do much more importance wise as he did in the precedor. He appeared in the final 64 MP with two roles. His first role was playing an active role as the “good-guy” of mini-games (as opposed to Koopa Kid) and running the item shop for the game. His second role, was being a fighting partner in duel mode, disproving the theory of Toad being unable to fight. The biggest advantage of him was that when you landed on a space the opponent had taken over, you didn’t have to pay coins. Also, he was VERY useful when powered up, as for only two coins; he could deal 2 damage and could sustain 2 HP of attacks. He played the role of host again in MP4, along with Boo, Koopa, Goomba, and Shy Guy. He was made a playable character in MP5, and has been one ever since.
Gamecube General
Toad appeared in the cannon/sub-cannon Mario games on the Cube, Super Mario Sunshine and Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door. In the former, a group of Toad’s traveled with Mario, Peach, and Toadsworth to Isle Delfino. In the latter, Toad was once again a generic species, but this time, there were more specific Toad’s with interesting roles. Such as, for example, Prince Mush, an ex-fighter from the Glitz Pit, and Toadette, Toad’s female counterpart.On a final cannon role, Luigi’s Mansion, Kinopio appeared again, basically allowing you to save.
As stated before, he was in Mario Kart Double Dash (as secret character.) And (much to enragement of Toad fans) he was absent as a playable character in Mario Power Tennis. He was also playable in Mario Baseball and Soccer, and is set for the Soccer sequel. And, he played an active role in Mario DDR, or in other words, he spent the entire game adventuring with Mario and Luigi.
To be blunt, the cannon/sub-cannon games didn’t do much for Toad. On the flip-side, however, he got many good spin-off roles added to his collection, being playable in just about every sport. The most under-looked, but biggest thing on the Cube was DDR, which featured Toad as a main character in a storyline again, showing Nintendo hasn’t forgotten Toad as a main character.
Hand-Held General
Toad got to be controllable for a brief moment in the beginning of Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga, showing even more that Nintendo still cares for the little guy. He went on to appear in this game’s sequel, with a similar role to the last (without being controllable.) He was playable in Mario Kart: Super Circuit, and Mario Kart DS, and appeared a cameo in Mario Hoops. He also appeared in some of New Super Mario Bros’ mini-games.
Sure, Toad didn’t do much in hand-helds. But considering that most Mario hand-helds were classic platformers with Mario and occasionally Luigi, I think Toad did pretty well for himself.
Super Princess Peach
But wait, there’s more! Before starting, I’ll answer why I made SPP separate. This game marked something significant for Toad. Please read on…..
In Super Princess Peach, the start of the game mentions Hammer Bros kidnapping Mario, Luigi, and Toad (aka, Kinopio.) Why would Bowser (or Nintendo, depending on how you want to look at it) go through the trouble of kidnapping Toad as well? This, I think, is what currently helps Toad the most. Bowser must see Toad as some sort of threat; otherwise he wouldn’t go through the trouble of kidnapping him. More importantly, it shows that Nintendo hasn’t forgotten Toad’s importance to the Mario franchise.
Other Media - There were three TV shows back in the day. Mario Super Show, Super Mario Bros 3, and Super Mario World. Toad was absent from only the SMW show, as he wasn’t even in the game.
In the Super Show, Toad would often go with the Mario Bros to rescue Peach from Bowser. Though on some cases, Toad was captured as well. In one episode (The Fire of Hercufleas) the show showed Toad in an alt color scheme, which was described as Toad with a Fire Flower.
Toad remained a regular in the SMB3 show, though this time he usually stayed behind with Peach in his house (in which he let the Mario Bros stay in.) Oddly enough, he complained about always having to be left behind in the final episode.
And then in the comic book, Super Mario Bros, Toad often tagged along with Mario, seemingly replacing Luigi as the hero’s sidekick.
As you can no doubt see, Toad has been around in the Marioverse as long as people such as Peach and Bowser. Also note, Toad has been made into a plushie toy and an action figure, along with a small slew of other characters (basically, the Big 8.) He's had his own game, as well as a slew of spin-off roles, and a few other big roles.. So from all of this, we can say that Toad’s importance to the Marioverse is high.
Popularity
It can be first represented by Toad being on the list of characters Sakurai is considering (which, mind you, is a BS list. The only thing being taken from this is that Toad was popular enough to be suggested.) It can be further represented by Toad getting SECOND in the pole hosted by NP asking subscribers of who they wanted in the new SSB. (he was second to Wario, who is already confirmed. It should also be noted that Peach and Bowser were the top two for the Melee poll, and they appeared in SSBM. It can be assumed that the same is true for Wario and Toad, and it already IS true for Wario.) Plus the fact that he’s always appearing in just about every Mario game has to mean something (he also cameo’s in Kirby’s Super Star for goodness sakes!)
Finally, there is one last piece of history that explains Toads popularity. His absence from Mario Power Tennis. Toad fans were enraged by his absence from the popular tennis sequel. Their blood was really boiled when a picture of Toad and Toadette was found on the tournament bracket in the opening video, and still Toad wasn't even unlockable. So, we can conclude that Toad's popularity = HIGH
Toad vs. Toadsworth
Some say Toadsworth has been replacing Toad. This is true; Toadsworth has been replacing Toad, as a host. Toad has recently been pushed into more playable/active roles (Mario Superstar Baseball, Super Mario Strikers, Super Princess Peach, Mario DDR, etc) while Toadsworth has been hosting more things (MP7 and NSMB.)
Q&A
Toad is a generic character.
Answer To: There is one Toad that is singled out as THE Toad (Kinopio), much like Yoshi and Kamek. Kinopio appears in such games as SMB2, SMRPG, the MK series, the MP series, Wario’s Woods, etc.
Toad is Peach's B-move.
A/T: That can easily be replaced by Toadsworth, a generic Toad, or Perry, Peach's umbrella.
Toad is a filler character and has no big roles.
A/T: Toad was playable in SMB2, had a huge part in the plot of Mario Party, and was the main character for Wario's Woods, just to name a few.
There are too many Mario characters.
A/T: The Mario series is the flagship series for Nintendo. Plus, Wario, DK, and Yoshi don't count as a Mario characters in SSB.
Why Toad? Why not Waluigi, Daisy, or Birdo?
A/T: Toad was part of the Big 8 and is the only character from the Big 8 not to be in Smash yet. That and, he’s more deserving and popular.
Toad isn't a fighter! He is a weakling!
A/T: Toad was the strongest character in SMB2 out of Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Toad. This game was remade twice, both times keeping Toad the strongest. More recently, SSBM and Mario Superstar Baseball have re-emphasized Toad’s strength with profile.
Killing Shy Guy’s doesn’t count as fighting! He didn’t even punch them!
A/T: How is throwing veggies or the enemies themselves not fighting? If you throw a rock at someone, is that not considered fighting? They used veggies because it’s Mario, and knowing Shiggy, it was going to be out of the norm. And you want to see Toad throw a punch? Go play Mario Party, 5-7 more specifically. Mini games occasionally require Toad (or whoever you’re controlling) to punch, kick, ground pound, and even jump kick.
Toad wouldn't have an original moveset.
A/T: See the Moveset I made.
Toad is way too small and light.
A/T: In Mario Kart 64, Yoshi in Toad were in the same weight class. Yoshi is not the lightest character in Smash. And for his size, Kirby is supposed to be like, 8 inches, and Bowser is usually 3 times as big as Mario. Point being, they can re-size him.
Toad has an annoying voice.
A/T: And this should affect him getting in or not why? And if it’s really THAT annoying, hit “mute.” >.>
Why can't he be the tutorial guide?
A/T: Toad fans want more than that, Toad deserves better than that, Toad has evolved from that role, Toadsworth is the tutorial person now, etc.
Toad sux.
A/T: Once again, how does this affect Toad getting in or not? If you don’t like him, don’t use him, or use him as a punching bag.
And finally, his moveset, made by me, Yoshi_Lord
Stats
Strength – 5/5 (just like SMB2)
Height – 2/5 (about a head shorter than Mario)
Weight – 2/5 (about the same as Ness)
Speed – 5/5 (same a SMB2)
Jump – 2/5 (same as SB2)
B: Mushroom Bazooka – Straight from the SMRPG guard’s famous quote, a bazooka custom made to shoot high-powered, mushrooms. They fly at the same speed until the hit something or leave the arena (the speed being about as fast as the Ray Gun.) Descent knock-back (***) and descent damage (***)
B<>: Forest Bomb – Toad chucks one of the bombs that he used in Wario’s Woods. They don’t bounce, they stay where they land, blowing after laying there for a few seconds. They damage Toad as well. Low knock-back (**) but high damage (****)
B^: Toad Rocket – It’s the Super Jump used in SMB2, and it works in the same fashion. The biggest difference, it can be used in the air. This is a charging move, you start by pressing the buttons, and Toad will crouch down and begin glowing. Then you let go, the longer you hold it, the higher he flies. You can adjust the angle of the jump ever so slightly right as you launch. Descent knock-back (***) but low damage (**)
Bv: Mushroom – Toad pulls a Mushroom out of the ground via Peach’s Veggie attack. You can get one of 6 different mushrooms, each with different effects. Note that he pulls the Mushroom out and he can use it like an item, much like Peach’s veggie, being able to throw it at anyone. He can also throw them at himself (by throwing them down.) Also, to keep it fair, Toad can only use two mushroom's a life. After that, the Mushroom he pulls for the rest of the life is just like Peach's veggies.
Mushrooms include:
Super - Heal 25% Damage (25% chance (red and white))
Poison - Take 25% Damage (25% chance (slightly darker than super))
Metal - Turns Character Metal (18% chance (metallic colored))
Sluggish - Speed Cut In Half (15% chance (light blue and neon green))
Cursed - Hinders Controls (12% chance (purple and dark green))
Golden – Attack, Speed, and Defense x2 (5% chance (golden <_<))
Super Smash Attack - Road Rage – Toad whistles, and his kart comes speeding onto the stage. Toad jumps in, and as the name implies, causes some massive road rage. He drives around, running over everyone, and occasionally tossing some shells at opponents. Does high damage to everyone.
K = Knockback; No (K) = No Knockback
A - Punch (3%-5%)
AA - Punch w/ other hand (2%-4%)
AAA - Uppercut (K*) (6%-9%)
A^ - Jumping punch (4%-7%)
A> - Dropkick (5%-8%) (makes opponent fall over)
Av - Trip (2%-5%) (makes opponent fall over)
A^^ - Jumping head butt (K*) (5%-8%)
A>> - Toad Mallet (K****) (10%-12%)
Avv - Dropkicks to both sides of him (5%-8%) (makes opponent fall over)
Run A - Clothesline (6%-10%) (makes opponent fall over)
Air A - Thrusts his elbow (6%-9%)
Air A^ - Kick flip (K**) (7%-11%)
Air A> - Dives forward (K***) (5%-8%)
Air A< - Backwards missile dropkick (K**) (7%-12%)
Air Av – Spins drill style (9%-14%)
Z - Grabs, uses a combo of head butts and elbow cracks (3%-5%)
Z^ - Throws up like a rocket (12%-15%)
Z> - Lets go of opponent and quickly spears them (13%-16%)
Z< - Throws the opponent over his head (9%-13%)
Zv – Power bomb (15%-17%)
Taunt – Waves at the TV (O_O) and yells something cool (idk…)
Symbol – Mushroom
Victory Pose –
A) He drives in on his kart (from the right,) does a complete turn around in the center, jumps out, and thrusts his fist into the air
B) He throws a giant shy guy off the screen, and then wipes the sweat off his forehead, exhaling at the same time
C) He kicks a bomb away from him, but it rolls around to the other side of him, exploding, turning him black, he then blinks away the ash from his eyes
Costumes –
Red Jacket/Blue Spots
Green Jacket/Yellow Spots
Pink Jacket/White spots on Pink (Toadette style)
Brown Jacket/Brown Spots on Skin Color (Toadsworth Style)
The following was posted by a user on the Gamewinners forums. Please have patience while reading this.
Table of Contents
I. Introduction
II. Importance Intro
Nintendo/Famicon
Super Nintendo/Super Famicon
Nintendo 64 General
Mario Party Series
Gamecube General
Hand-Held General
Super Princess Peach
Other Media
III. Popularity
IV. Toad vs. Toadsworth
V. Q&A
VI. Moveset
Introduction
Some may ask, why Toad? Well, Toad's importance, popularity, and chances of getting in SSBB surpass that of any Mario character not already in SSBB. Mario and Wario are already confirmed. Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Yoshi, and DK, if someone can explain why they’d be axed, then I’d accept Toad not getting in. The only one not standing in Toad’s way is Dr. Mario, because he’s nothing more than an alternate form of Mario, with cloned moves nonetheless. With this, I’ll explain Toad’s history in the Marioverse, as well as his history in Media in the form of popularity. I’ll also answer some of the most common questions asked about/argued against Toad. Finally, I’ll show you the moveset I made, to show an example of how Toad might work.
Importance Intro
First off, let’s look at his importance. Toad is extremely under-appreciated when it comes to how important he was to the Marioverse. He’s been around since the beginning, has earned a place in Mario Stardom, has had his own game, etc. Throughout this entire group of sections, you’ll see why Toad is important enough to be in SSBB.
Nintendo/Famicom
To get things started for Toad’s career, he was at the end of every castle to deliver you a message in the original Super Mario Bros (except for the final castle, where Peach was waiting for Mario.) At the time, Toad was known quite simply as one of the “Mushroom Retainers.” The message he gave today is one of Toad’s most famous lines. The message itself was ”Thank you Mario, but our Princess is in another castle!”
In the sequel of the sequel, Super Mario Bros 3, Toad played a similar role, with a few additions. Instead of telling you where the Princess wasn’t, Toad would tell you that the king had been transformed, and that you needed to find the Magic Wand to change him back. In addition to that, he ran the item house’s and the mini-games.
To go a little backwards now, he was also one of four playable/main characters in Super Mario Bros 2, a remake of the Japanese Doki Doki Panic. He starred along with Mario, Luigi, and Peach. He was the strongest AND the fastest of the characters, being able to lift items with ease, and zip through stages like a rabbit. He got a full 5 stars in each of those. To counter-act that, his jumping was horrendous, getting only 2 stars.
So, let’s do a quick summary. You may be wondering why he’s important with 3 games, especially considering he was only playable in 1. Well consider this, with the exception of SMB2, the only characters to be playable in any Mario game on the NES was Luigi and Mario himself. Not only Toad but Peach as well first became playable in SMB2.
Super Nintendo/Super Famicom
Despite being absent from Super Mario World and Super Mario World 2, Toad still managed to stay strong on the SNES. If nothing, he became strong (importance wise) with the SNES.
To start out with a bang, I’ll go ahead and bring up THAT. Oh yes, you know what it is, Wario’s Woods. This game featured Toad, as the main character, and the only playable character. And what else does this mean? Toad was put into the star of his own game before characters like Luigi, Peach, and Bowser.
He also appeared (as Kinopio) in Super Mario RPG. He helped you get the game started on the way to Mushroom Kingdom. After that, he spent most of the time in the Castle Throne Room with the Chancellor. He also instructed you on how to play the mini-games, and finally, ran an item shop in Smithy’s Factory. His most memorable part in this game was his famous bazooka quote, which many speculate could be an attack for Toad.
He also appeared along with Mario, Luigi, Peach, Yoshi, Bowser, DK Jr, and Koopa as a playable character in Super Mario Kart, starting off something, which I’ll get more in depth with later. He was also a character in the Japanese Mario Excitebike, along with Mario, Luigi, Peach, Wario, and Koopa Troopa, which should being saying something significant, he got in before Yoshi and Bowser.
To summarize this, Toad received a lot on the SNES. He got his own game, for one thing. He got recognition, considering that SMRPG recognized Toad as his own character, not just another random part of a race of creatures. And finally, he was obviously popular, considering his appearances in spin-offs.
Nintendo 64 General
Toad appeared in SM64, mostly sitting around the castle and telling you that they needed help, although, he also handed over a couple power stars. Also, in the DS remake, he returned the characters hat whenever it was lost.
He also appeared in the N64 RPG, Paper Mario, as a generic species. Some assume that the Toad hiding in the closet in Peach's Castle is Kinopio, but nothing is certain. Another more specific Toad included The Master, a Toad with supreme martial arts skills, whom you fought 3 times as an extra boss in the Dojo. And on another note, you also receive a post card from a Toad being shown in a Martial Arts uniform and throwing a punch, basically proving Toad’s can fight.
Mario Kart, I said I’d get back to this. The 8 characters in Mario Kart 64 were classified as the Big 8, being the 8 characters that appeared the most in Mario games and were the most popular of the Mario characters. And just look where they are now. Wario, DK, and Yoshi all have separate franchises from Mario. Luigi, Peach, and Toad have all gotten their own games. Bowser has been a constant reoccurring villain, and Mario is…Mario. And on one more note, he's been in EVERY Mario Kart game to date, beating out big names like Wario and DK for the SNES version. And he was even was in the Arcade version, Mario Kart GP, with Pac-man, and is confirmed for the arcade sequal.
On one final note, Toad was playable in Mario Tennis (as well as the original Mario Tennis for the Virtual Boy.) And to summarize the rest of this up, Toad was in the only cannon game for the N64, as well as the only sub-cannon game. He had a good amount of spin-off roles as well, considering his success in the Mario Kart franchise. Oh yeah, and don’t forget Mario Party, where Toad got another big push.
Mario Party Series
One of Toad’s most notable spin-off roles, other than Mario Kart, was in the Mario Party games. In the beginning of Mario Party, it says Mario is with his 6 best friends (who, coincidently, are the other 6 members of the Big 8 minus Bowser, though he was in it as well as the villain.) Toad was the host of the entire game, selling you the stars. Probably most importantly, he served as the final "boss" in mini-games Island. After defeating Slot Car Derby, the final mini-game, Toad would challenge you for one more round of Slot Car Derby. His skill in that game surpassed anyone's, which led some to believe that he was the greatest racer in the Marioverse. He played a host role in the next MP, but really didn't do much more importance wise as he did in the precedor. He appeared in the final 64 MP with two roles. His first role was playing an active role as the “good-guy” of mini-games (as opposed to Koopa Kid) and running the item shop for the game. His second role, was being a fighting partner in duel mode, disproving the theory of Toad being unable to fight. The biggest advantage of him was that when you landed on a space the opponent had taken over, you didn’t have to pay coins. Also, he was VERY useful when powered up, as for only two coins; he could deal 2 damage and could sustain 2 HP of attacks. He played the role of host again in MP4, along with Boo, Koopa, Goomba, and Shy Guy. He was made a playable character in MP5, and has been one ever since.
Gamecube General
Toad appeared in the cannon/sub-cannon Mario games on the Cube, Super Mario Sunshine and Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door. In the former, a group of Toad’s traveled with Mario, Peach, and Toadsworth to Isle Delfino. In the latter, Toad was once again a generic species, but this time, there were more specific Toad’s with interesting roles. Such as, for example, Prince Mush, an ex-fighter from the Glitz Pit, and Toadette, Toad’s female counterpart.On a final cannon role, Luigi’s Mansion, Kinopio appeared again, basically allowing you to save.
As stated before, he was in Mario Kart Double Dash (as secret character.) And (much to enragement of Toad fans) he was absent as a playable character in Mario Power Tennis. He was also playable in Mario Baseball and Soccer, and is set for the Soccer sequel. And, he played an active role in Mario DDR, or in other words, he spent the entire game adventuring with Mario and Luigi.
To be blunt, the cannon/sub-cannon games didn’t do much for Toad. On the flip-side, however, he got many good spin-off roles added to his collection, being playable in just about every sport. The most under-looked, but biggest thing on the Cube was DDR, which featured Toad as a main character in a storyline again, showing Nintendo hasn’t forgotten Toad as a main character.
Hand-Held General
Toad got to be controllable for a brief moment in the beginning of Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga, showing even more that Nintendo still cares for the little guy. He went on to appear in this game’s sequel, with a similar role to the last (without being controllable.) He was playable in Mario Kart: Super Circuit, and Mario Kart DS, and appeared a cameo in Mario Hoops. He also appeared in some of New Super Mario Bros’ mini-games.
Sure, Toad didn’t do much in hand-helds. But considering that most Mario hand-helds were classic platformers with Mario and occasionally Luigi, I think Toad did pretty well for himself.
Super Princess Peach
But wait, there’s more! Before starting, I’ll answer why I made SPP separate. This game marked something significant for Toad. Please read on…..
In Super Princess Peach, the start of the game mentions Hammer Bros kidnapping Mario, Luigi, and Toad (aka, Kinopio.) Why would Bowser (or Nintendo, depending on how you want to look at it) go through the trouble of kidnapping Toad as well? This, I think, is what currently helps Toad the most. Bowser must see Toad as some sort of threat; otherwise he wouldn’t go through the trouble of kidnapping him. More importantly, it shows that Nintendo hasn’t forgotten Toad’s importance to the Mario franchise.
Other Media - There were three TV shows back in the day. Mario Super Show, Super Mario Bros 3, and Super Mario World. Toad was absent from only the SMW show, as he wasn’t even in the game.
In the Super Show, Toad would often go with the Mario Bros to rescue Peach from Bowser. Though on some cases, Toad was captured as well. In one episode (The Fire of Hercufleas) the show showed Toad in an alt color scheme, which was described as Toad with a Fire Flower.
Toad remained a regular in the SMB3 show, though this time he usually stayed behind with Peach in his house (in which he let the Mario Bros stay in.) Oddly enough, he complained about always having to be left behind in the final episode.
And then in the comic book, Super Mario Bros, Toad often tagged along with Mario, seemingly replacing Luigi as the hero’s sidekick.
As you can no doubt see, Toad has been around in the Marioverse as long as people such as Peach and Bowser. Also note, Toad has been made into a plushie toy and an action figure, along with a small slew of other characters (basically, the Big 8.) He's had his own game, as well as a slew of spin-off roles, and a few other big roles.. So from all of this, we can say that Toad’s importance to the Marioverse is high.
Popularity
It can be first represented by Toad being on the list of characters Sakurai is considering (which, mind you, is a BS list. The only thing being taken from this is that Toad was popular enough to be suggested.) It can be further represented by Toad getting SECOND in the pole hosted by NP asking subscribers of who they wanted in the new SSB. (he was second to Wario, who is already confirmed. It should also be noted that Peach and Bowser were the top two for the Melee poll, and they appeared in SSBM. It can be assumed that the same is true for Wario and Toad, and it already IS true for Wario.) Plus the fact that he’s always appearing in just about every Mario game has to mean something (he also cameo’s in Kirby’s Super Star for goodness sakes!)
Finally, there is one last piece of history that explains Toads popularity. His absence from Mario Power Tennis. Toad fans were enraged by his absence from the popular tennis sequel. Their blood was really boiled when a picture of Toad and Toadette was found on the tournament bracket in the opening video, and still Toad wasn't even unlockable. So, we can conclude that Toad's popularity = HIGH
Toad vs. Toadsworth
Some say Toadsworth has been replacing Toad. This is true; Toadsworth has been replacing Toad, as a host. Toad has recently been pushed into more playable/active roles (Mario Superstar Baseball, Super Mario Strikers, Super Princess Peach, Mario DDR, etc) while Toadsworth has been hosting more things (MP7 and NSMB.)
Q&A
Toad is a generic character.
Answer To: There is one Toad that is singled out as THE Toad (Kinopio), much like Yoshi and Kamek. Kinopio appears in such games as SMB2, SMRPG, the MK series, the MP series, Wario’s Woods, etc.
Toad is Peach's B-move.
A/T: That can easily be replaced by Toadsworth, a generic Toad, or Perry, Peach's umbrella.
Toad is a filler character and has no big roles.
A/T: Toad was playable in SMB2, had a huge part in the plot of Mario Party, and was the main character for Wario's Woods, just to name a few.
There are too many Mario characters.
A/T: The Mario series is the flagship series for Nintendo. Plus, Wario, DK, and Yoshi don't count as a Mario characters in SSB.
Why Toad? Why not Waluigi, Daisy, or Birdo?
A/T: Toad was part of the Big 8 and is the only character from the Big 8 not to be in Smash yet. That and, he’s more deserving and popular.
Toad isn't a fighter! He is a weakling!
A/T: Toad was the strongest character in SMB2 out of Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Toad. This game was remade twice, both times keeping Toad the strongest. More recently, SSBM and Mario Superstar Baseball have re-emphasized Toad’s strength with profile.
Killing Shy Guy’s doesn’t count as fighting! He didn’t even punch them!
A/T: How is throwing veggies or the enemies themselves not fighting? If you throw a rock at someone, is that not considered fighting? They used veggies because it’s Mario, and knowing Shiggy, it was going to be out of the norm. And you want to see Toad throw a punch? Go play Mario Party, 5-7 more specifically. Mini games occasionally require Toad (or whoever you’re controlling) to punch, kick, ground pound, and even jump kick.
Toad wouldn't have an original moveset.
A/T: See the Moveset I made.
Toad is way too small and light.
A/T: In Mario Kart 64, Yoshi in Toad were in the same weight class. Yoshi is not the lightest character in Smash. And for his size, Kirby is supposed to be like, 8 inches, and Bowser is usually 3 times as big as Mario. Point being, they can re-size him.
Toad has an annoying voice.
A/T: And this should affect him getting in or not why? And if it’s really THAT annoying, hit “mute.” >.>
Why can't he be the tutorial guide?
A/T: Toad fans want more than that, Toad deserves better than that, Toad has evolved from that role, Toadsworth is the tutorial person now, etc.
Toad sux.
A/T: Once again, how does this affect Toad getting in or not? If you don’t like him, don’t use him, or use him as a punching bag.
And finally, his moveset, made by me, Yoshi_Lord
Stats
Strength – 5/5 (just like SMB2)
Height – 2/5 (about a head shorter than Mario)
Weight – 2/5 (about the same as Ness)
Speed – 5/5 (same a SMB2)
Jump – 2/5 (same as SB2)
B: Mushroom Bazooka – Straight from the SMRPG guard’s famous quote, a bazooka custom made to shoot high-powered, mushrooms. They fly at the same speed until the hit something or leave the arena (the speed being about as fast as the Ray Gun.) Descent knock-back (***) and descent damage (***)
B<>: Forest Bomb – Toad chucks one of the bombs that he used in Wario’s Woods. They don’t bounce, they stay where they land, blowing after laying there for a few seconds. They damage Toad as well. Low knock-back (**) but high damage (****)
B^: Toad Rocket – It’s the Super Jump used in SMB2, and it works in the same fashion. The biggest difference, it can be used in the air. This is a charging move, you start by pressing the buttons, and Toad will crouch down and begin glowing. Then you let go, the longer you hold it, the higher he flies. You can adjust the angle of the jump ever so slightly right as you launch. Descent knock-back (***) but low damage (**)
Bv: Mushroom – Toad pulls a Mushroom out of the ground via Peach’s Veggie attack. You can get one of 6 different mushrooms, each with different effects. Note that he pulls the Mushroom out and he can use it like an item, much like Peach’s veggie, being able to throw it at anyone. He can also throw them at himself (by throwing them down.) Also, to keep it fair, Toad can only use two mushroom's a life. After that, the Mushroom he pulls for the rest of the life is just like Peach's veggies.
Mushrooms include:
Super - Heal 25% Damage (25% chance (red and white))
Poison - Take 25% Damage (25% chance (slightly darker than super))
Metal - Turns Character Metal (18% chance (metallic colored))
Sluggish - Speed Cut In Half (15% chance (light blue and neon green))
Cursed - Hinders Controls (12% chance (purple and dark green))
Golden – Attack, Speed, and Defense x2 (5% chance (golden <_<))
Super Smash Attack - Road Rage – Toad whistles, and his kart comes speeding onto the stage. Toad jumps in, and as the name implies, causes some massive road rage. He drives around, running over everyone, and occasionally tossing some shells at opponents. Does high damage to everyone.
K = Knockback; No (K) = No Knockback
A - Punch (3%-5%)
AA - Punch w/ other hand (2%-4%)
AAA - Uppercut (K*) (6%-9%)
A^ - Jumping punch (4%-7%)
A> - Dropkick (5%-8%) (makes opponent fall over)
Av - Trip (2%-5%) (makes opponent fall over)
A^^ - Jumping head butt (K*) (5%-8%)
A>> - Toad Mallet (K****) (10%-12%)
Avv - Dropkicks to both sides of him (5%-8%) (makes opponent fall over)
Run A - Clothesline (6%-10%) (makes opponent fall over)
Air A - Thrusts his elbow (6%-9%)
Air A^ - Kick flip (K**) (7%-11%)
Air A> - Dives forward (K***) (5%-8%)
Air A< - Backwards missile dropkick (K**) (7%-12%)
Air Av – Spins drill style (9%-14%)
Z - Grabs, uses a combo of head butts and elbow cracks (3%-5%)
Z^ - Throws up like a rocket (12%-15%)
Z> - Lets go of opponent and quickly spears them (13%-16%)
Z< - Throws the opponent over his head (9%-13%)
Zv – Power bomb (15%-17%)
Taunt – Waves at the TV (O_O) and yells something cool (idk…)
Symbol – Mushroom
Victory Pose –
A) He drives in on his kart (from the right,) does a complete turn around in the center, jumps out, and thrusts his fist into the air
B) He throws a giant shy guy off the screen, and then wipes the sweat off his forehead, exhaling at the same time
C) He kicks a bomb away from him, but it rolls around to the other side of him, exploding, turning him black, he then blinks away the ash from his eyes
Costumes –
Red Jacket/Blue Spots
Green Jacket/Yellow Spots
Pink Jacket/White spots on Pink (Toadette style)
Brown Jacket/Brown Spots on Skin Color (Toadsworth Style)
ya know...i came to this thread to state why Toad sucks major @$$ and he shouldnt be in the game, but after reading the above comment, i changed my mind. i had no idea Toad was so powerful, i thot he would be the hated weakling (like Pichu) in Brawl. well, i guess i support him Brawl, as long he doesnt take the place of more deserving characters (Bomberman, Sonic, Capt. Olimar, etc.).
NintendoWarrior
Smash Lord
I saw someone mention Peach's move from Super Princess Peach. I've never played that game, what are her moves?
Various umbrella attacks, but the centerpiece are her four emotions powers from the vibe sceptor. Joy (basically her usual float ability with added tornados, really), Calm (health regeneration), Rage (Fire. Not much else to say), and Sadness (tears)
Of the four, Joy is sorta in Smash already and I don't know what the hell Sadness would be used for (it was mainly for puzzles more than any actual attacking). Which just leaves Rage (Super Smash attack?) and Calm (health regeneration move? Sounds like a potential B move and thus replacement for the Toad move to me).
Of the four, Joy is sorta in Smash already and I don't know what the hell Sadness would be used for (it was mainly for puzzles more than any actual attacking). Which just leaves Rage (Super Smash attack?) and Calm (health regeneration move? Sounds like a potential B move and thus replacement for the Toad move to me).
Brawlmatt202
Smash Champion
I like the sound of that idea!
You know, it's funny, I got this Toad plushy at an Anime Convention the other day, along Kirby and Toad one. I could pretend SSBB until other characters are confirmed!
Brawlmatt202
Smash Champion
...You mean MY post of buying a Toad Plushy at an anime convention?
Brawlmatt202
Smash Champion
Oh, yeah, he's really cute!
Have you heard of the term "The Big Eight"? It's basically the 8 main characters of the Mario series:
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Toad
Bowser
Yoshi
Wario
Donkey Kong
It would be a real shame if the final member of the Big Eight did not make it into Brawl!
Numa Dude
Smash Lord
I was skeptical at first but I have seen the top of the mountain and it is good. Toad would be great for brawl and he has very high chance of making it. The only other character who even comes close in terms of chances is Bowser Jr.. Who knows maybe Toad and Bowser jr. will both make it.
MikeKirby
OTL Winrar
I like Toad as much as anyone here, really. But Toad for Brawl? I dont think so. I mean he is no fighter. Why you might ask?
1. The reason Princess Peach always gets kidnapped... because of the army of Toads.
2. Whenever there is danger of any sort... he runs away.
3. The only way he helps is if he runs... to Mario.
Seriously though I like the dude. But for Brawl I dont think so.
1. The reason Princess Peach always gets kidnapped... because of the army of Toads.
2. Whenever there is danger of any sort... he runs away.
3. The only way he helps is if he runs... to Mario.
Seriously though I like the dude. But for Brawl I dont think so.
Numa Dude
Smash Lord
You obviously haven't played the first Paper Mario or you would see how tough a Toad can be.
MikeKirby
OTL Winrar
hmmm... well no I haven't but enlighten me with what he did? Unless... its been posted up already... *groan* got to look through 35+ pages...
Numa Dude
Smash Lord
There is a Toad in that game that is practically invincible. You have to pull no punches you have to have the cheapest abilitys you have to be a high *** level and even then you need alot of luck to beat him.
Check out my post on page 38, everything you need is right there.
MikeKirby
OTL Winrar
Post was long I dont know if I got all of em. I dont like to read movesets. I would have cept I dont have the time right now. Again, I like Toad but the dude isnt right for Brawl. I can't picture him fighting.
Toad is Peach's B-move.
A/T: That can easily be replaced by Toadsworth, a generic Toad, or Perry, Peach's umbrella.
Actually, not really where as Toads are expendable and hundreds of them to use there is only one Toadsworth. Besides Toad is supposed to protect Peach not Toadsworth Yes, there's only one Toadsworth; that's irrelevant. For all we know, Peach could have been using the same Toad over and over again.
Toad is a filler character and has no big roles.
A/T: Toad was playable in SMB2, had a huge part in the plot of Mario Party, and was the main character for Wario's Woods, just to name a few.
He was playable in SMB2 but what was his ability? To run, wonder how he got that? Probably how he is always running away as the non-fighter he is. Of course he ran. Everyone did. That's the only way to get through the level...
There are too many Mario characters.
A/T: The Mario series is the flagship series for Nintendo. Plus, Wario, DK, and Yoshi don't count as a Mario characters in SSB.
Yeah people always say that. Though I am not agreeing with the people that say that Care to elaborate?
Why Toad? Why not Waluigi, Daisy, or Birdo?
A/T: Toad was part of the Big 8 and is the only character from the Big 8 not to be in Smash yet. That and, he’s more deserving and popular.
I don't really take popularity into consideration. I bet Sakurai does.
Toad isn't a fighter! He is a weakling!
A/T: Toad was the strongest character in SMB2 out of Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Toad. This game was remade twice, both times keeping Toad the strongest. More recently, SSBM and Mario Superstar Baseball have re-emphasized Toad’s strength with profile.
He didn't fight all he did was run. Like he always does. You can't beat bosses and hit homers by running...
Killing Shy Guy’s doesn’t count as fighting! He didn’t even punch them!
A/T: How is throwing veggies or the enemies themselves not fighting? If you throw a rock at someone, is that not considered fighting? They used veggies because it’s Mario, and knowing Shiggy, it was going to be out of the norm. And you want to see Toad throw a punch? Go play Mario Party, 5-7 more specifically. Mini games occasionally require Toad (or whoever you’re controlling) to punch, kick, ground pound, and even jump kick.
Everyone did that it doesnt make him any special. Yeah, but he threw a punch, showing he can fight, regardless of whoever else did it. Also, go play the original Paper Mario. In it, the strongest enemy (moreso than Bowser, the final boss) in the game is a Toad. Also, you get a postcard from a young Toad doing one of those karate kick things, so you know they can fight. Oh! I almost forgot Kinopio, the Toad that joins your party in Super Mario RPG. I'm pretty sure he did some fighting.
Toad is way too small and light.
A/T: In Mario Kart 64, Yoshi in Toad were in the same weight class. Yoshi is not the lightest character in Smash. And for his size, Kirby is supposed to be like, 8 inches, and Bowser is usually 3 times as big as Mario. Point being, they can re-size him.
This doesn't matter. After all I am a Kirby Main XD Yay
Toad has an annoying voice.
A/T: And this should affect him getting in or not why? And if it’s really THAT annoying, hit “mute.” >.>
Again Kirby Main, supposedly an annoying taunt is part of getting on your oppenents nerves or mindgaming. An annoying voice can be helpful. =] Yay i like it when you support my argument
Why can't he be the tutorial guide?
A/T: Toad fans want more than that, Toad deserves better than that, Toad has evolved from that role, Toadsworth is the tutorial person now, etc.
True but thats all irevelant. Its opinionative Yeah, but there was that instance with the angry mob when Toad was removed from Mario Power Tennis...
Toad sux.
A/T: Once again, how does this affect Toad getting in or not? If you don’t like him, don’t use him, or use him as a punching bag.
Yeah... Yeah...
A/T: That can easily be replaced by Toadsworth, a generic Toad, or Perry, Peach's umbrella.
Actually, not really where as Toads are expendable and hundreds of them to use there is only one Toadsworth. Besides Toad is supposed to protect Peach not Toadsworth Yes, there's only one Toadsworth; that's irrelevant. For all we know, Peach could have been using the same Toad over and over again.
Toad is a filler character and has no big roles.
A/T: Toad was playable in SMB2, had a huge part in the plot of Mario Party, and was the main character for Wario's Woods, just to name a few.
He was playable in SMB2 but what was his ability? To run, wonder how he got that? Probably how he is always running away as the non-fighter he is. Of course he ran. Everyone did. That's the only way to get through the level...
There are too many Mario characters.
A/T: The Mario series is the flagship series for Nintendo. Plus, Wario, DK, and Yoshi don't count as a Mario characters in SSB.
Yeah people always say that. Though I am not agreeing with the people that say that Care to elaborate?
Why Toad? Why not Waluigi, Daisy, or Birdo?
A/T: Toad was part of the Big 8 and is the only character from the Big 8 not to be in Smash yet. That and, he’s more deserving and popular.
I don't really take popularity into consideration. I bet Sakurai does.
Toad isn't a fighter! He is a weakling!
A/T: Toad was the strongest character in SMB2 out of Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Toad. This game was remade twice, both times keeping Toad the strongest. More recently, SSBM and Mario Superstar Baseball have re-emphasized Toad’s strength with profile.
He didn't fight all he did was run. Like he always does. You can't beat bosses and hit homers by running...
Killing Shy Guy’s doesn’t count as fighting! He didn’t even punch them!
A/T: How is throwing veggies or the enemies themselves not fighting? If you throw a rock at someone, is that not considered fighting? They used veggies because it’s Mario, and knowing Shiggy, it was going to be out of the norm. And you want to see Toad throw a punch? Go play Mario Party, 5-7 more specifically. Mini games occasionally require Toad (or whoever you’re controlling) to punch, kick, ground pound, and even jump kick.
Everyone did that it doesnt make him any special. Yeah, but he threw a punch, showing he can fight, regardless of whoever else did it. Also, go play the original Paper Mario. In it, the strongest enemy (moreso than Bowser, the final boss) in the game is a Toad. Also, you get a postcard from a young Toad doing one of those karate kick things, so you know they can fight. Oh! I almost forgot Kinopio, the Toad that joins your party in Super Mario RPG. I'm pretty sure he did some fighting.
Toad is way too small and light.
A/T: In Mario Kart 64, Yoshi in Toad were in the same weight class. Yoshi is not the lightest character in Smash. And for his size, Kirby is supposed to be like, 8 inches, and Bowser is usually 3 times as big as Mario. Point being, they can re-size him.
This doesn't matter. After all I am a Kirby Main XD Yay
Toad has an annoying voice.
A/T: And this should affect him getting in or not why? And if it’s really THAT annoying, hit “mute.” >.>
Again Kirby Main, supposedly an annoying taunt is part of getting on your oppenents nerves or mindgaming. An annoying voice can be helpful. =] Yay i like it when you support my argument
Why can't he be the tutorial guide?
A/T: Toad fans want more than that, Toad deserves better than that, Toad has evolved from that role, Toadsworth is the tutorial person now, etc.
True but thats all irevelant. Its opinionative Yeah, but there was that instance with the angry mob when Toad was removed from Mario Power Tennis...
Toad sux.
A/T: Once again, how does this affect Toad getting in or not? If you don’t like him, don’t use him, or use him as a punching bag.
Yeah... Yeah...
MikeKirby
OTL Winrar
^ #3 - the fact that people keep saying that there are too many characters of the Mario franchise in SSB, doesnt matter to me that there are a lot of Mario characters in SSB. I mean its called Super Smash BROTHERS as in Mario BROTHERS.
#4 - There are characters that people knew nothing about and had no popularity and made it into Brawl and Melee. So I dont know if Sakuria does consider popularity that much.
Said by one of my friends and I think are kind of true v
Like I said before, I like the guy but he just isnt for Brawl.
#4 - There are characters that people knew nothing about and had no popularity and made it into Brawl and Melee. So I dont know if Sakuria does consider popularity that much.
Said by one of my friends and I think are kind of true v
oh and just for the record it wasn't THE toad that did the fighting in the games you guys discussed. With the exeption of Mario Party. Even then he punched and did all that because Nintendo wasnt going to make him a sitting duck. Still, why do you think think Princess Peach gets getting kidnapped? If he can't protect the Princess who he is supposed to protect how is he going to protect himself?
Like I said before, I like the guy but he just isnt for Brawl.
... So? He still punched, he still fought, and with logic like that you could say the exact same thing for Peach, "She was only playable in SMRPG because Nintendo didn't want to make her to just be a sitting duck".MikeKirby said:
.
Pech, the one who always gets kidnapped, is never able to protect herself from Bowser/whoever, yet she was just fine in Melee.MikeKirby said:
G&W didn't fight before Melee, I don't think Falcon was ever said to be a bounty hunter until after Smash Bros, Samus without her suit is extremeley weak, all she was only able to fire fron one very crappy gun, they all made it into Melee, and they made up heaps of moves, so there's no reason why they could give Toad some punches, kicks (no legs didn't stop then giving Jiggs or Kirby kicks), or headbut's.
And If you don't mind me asking, why is is that despite how you keep saying Toad shouldn't be in because you think he dosn't fight, you support Daisy, even though the only times she has ever fought are in the Mario Party games?
TOAD IS A PUNKASS!!!!!!! What games was he actually good in? When did he fight? When did he ever kickass? By the way, throwing veggies and jumping on goombas is NOT fighting! neither is winning in a kart game. Really? Throwing veggies and jumping on goombas is what Mario does, too...
Just let TRY to defend him. What game was he actually kickass in? maybe ONE Super Mario and N64 Mario Kart, but even then, so what if you were the fastest kart? It only shows that he's good at RUNNING AWAY.Being "kickass" is all subjective, really. I happened to be quite good with him in the spinoff games. And driving a fast kart means nothing. Captain Falcon runs the fastest in SSB, does that mean he's a coward?
Just let TRY to defend him. What game was he actually kickass in? maybe ONE Super Mario and N64 Mario Kart, but even then, so what if you were the fastest kart? It only shows that he's good at RUNNING AWAY.Being "kickass" is all subjective, really. I happened to be quite good with him in the spinoff games. And driving a fast kart means nothing. Captain Falcon runs the fastest in SSB, does that mean he's a coward?
Hiroaki
Smash Cadet
If Toad was a character, what would Peach's B attack be?
Toad as a shield..
xD Random funny idea
Toad as a shield..
xD Random funny idea
MikeKirby
OTL Winrar
Same thing can be said about Waluigi or any character in Mario Party such as Shy Guy, Boo or even Koopa Kid. Just becuase they threw a punch in Mario Party doesnt mean they should or should not be added to Brawl.
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Why that is is not my decision. Go ask Nintendo how they made her at a higher tier than Bowser. Very weird how she is seemed as a damsel in destress in RPG Mario games and in Melee she kicks hard rear.
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That might be so but they were the fighting type of characters. Nintendo can make any character fight because of the history or characteristic that they have. G&W was like working with a clean slate. They could do whatever they wanted with him. As far as Toad goes he just doesn't deem the characteristic to fight.
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No, I dont mind at all. A little bit off topic but anyways -- Princess Daisy has the talk and body language to suggest she would like a good brawl. I could use the same fact that you used in Toad's defence; since she pulled a punch in Mario Party that means she can fight. Though, I won't use that to back her up as her moveset or anything. I don't like that people suggest a sports theme attire or moveset. Sure she might use something like Peach's F-Smash Tennis racket but not heavily on sports movsets.
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Unlike Toad, Mario has actually fought hand to hand in games like Mario 64 and Sunshine.
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What was meant by the comment was that he is the type of coward that runs and hides. That is why he is such a good runner like in SMB2. Because of his cowardly run-away experience. Captain Falcon on the other hand, being the F-Zero racer he is his speed was a given factor. And no, he isn't a coward. Unlike Toad, Captain Falcon in his F-Zero GCN game in the cutscenes for the chapters, his bravery or not-cowardlynes was shown.
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I still like Toad though, even if he is who he is. He represents my childhood gaming. I don't mean to dampen any ones spirits but its just my view of it all. To me it just can't picture him going up against the heavyweights (or lightweights for that matter) in SSB.It's all good.
MikeKirby
OTL Winrar
heh-heh I will get back to you on most of the statements but the last one well he was in subcon or in other words a dream world. Not "reallty" but then again a game isn't reallity. Still everyone was given exagerated special powers. And for the record, it wasn't the classic Toad I know and like. If you want to add that specific Toad fight for him not for the classic Toad. As for the fourth statement, those characters are more fighters than Toad is.
later for now...
later for now...
It may have been a dream world, but Peach has two moves from it; I don't understand your classical toad argument; I just realized that Toad has never run from a fight. Starting in the original SMB, he was simply captured. He didn't run. Again, in SM64, he never ran, he was only imprisoned, and so on and so forth.
MikeKirby
OTL Winrar
But Shy Guy and Boo have been around as long as Toad has. There is their history.
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Really? Oh, well... if you mean as in Nintendo can make anyone fight then yes. But the fact that Toad can fight well, like I said, he isn't a brawler.
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He was the fastest I will give you that but thats it. How was he the strongest? What did he do that showed his strength? Though I have read somewhere he does seem somewhat strong but then why hasn't he ever done anything strength related hero wise? Second part; was it the actual red spotted Toad that was stronger than him?
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Would you enjoy a good brawl? The point is no one, that isn't violent or something, don't like to fight. If you had to you would because you have the strength to back it up. Yoshi, Zelda, Kirby, Jigglypuff, and Pichu can fight if they had to. Yoshi had his strengths and abilities and was a hero by saving Baby Mario. Zelda in the end of LoZ OoT and TW Princess for that matter helped link defeat Ganondorf/Ganon. Kirby has had his own adventure against DeDeDe countless times. Jigglypuff and Pichu are pokemon, they are made for battle. Like I said before. G&W = Clean slate, it was anything goes for him.
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Really? I got to look into that. Seems interesting. Is it the original Toad that has that?
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Classical Toad as in, the red spoted original Toad. There are others that resemble him and are taller, shorter etc. and have there own different traits. I am not sure what game they are in. If it's them that did all the karate and bazooka shooting and everything then those are different characters than who your fighting for here.
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I got a look at the moveset and I found it a little odd. Clothesline? Drop Kick? Upper cut? Backwards missile dropkick? Power bomb? You make it sound like he's wresting. I can't really see him doing these attacks because I have never seen him do anything of that calibur exept in Super Mario Strickers. Thats the only thing I can think of, his headbutt looking tackle.
Deathcarter
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2007
- Messages
- 1,358
Toad desrves to get in before every other Mario character not already in smash cause he is more important, has been playable in more than one mario series, and is popular, but y'all cannot use the abilities of the Master, a completely different Toad, to justify that Toad can fight. THE Toad has not proven he can fight and that may make it more challenging for Sakurai to come up with a move set, but that should not discourage him from putting Toad in the game at all.
By the way, in the duel mode of Mario party 3 for the N64, Toad had a squeek hammer that he whacked opponents with though he technically was not playable in that game.
By the way, in the duel mode of Mario party 3 for the N64, Toad had a squeek hammer that he whacked opponents with though he technically was not playable in that game.
For no apparent reason, I recently got a vision of a possible SSBB trailer... well, a scene in it anyway.
It shows Peach, who is suddenly being assaulted by Bowser and other angry Brawlers. She raises her arms in front of her face in defense as the shadows draw near.
Suddenly, something swiftly runs in and blocks off all attackers.
It is Toad, and he's looking BADASS.
As badass as a little mushroom guy with a happy face can look anyway.
It makes sense. Peach was so strong in Melee, I think, because of the comic value of a damsel in distress being able to actually kick the *** of her dragon assaulter. Toad is kind of the same, he was always that supposed guard who was always useless, so.. now it's payback time.
It shows Peach, who is suddenly being assaulted by Bowser and other angry Brawlers. She raises her arms in front of her face in defense as the shadows draw near.
Suddenly, something swiftly runs in and blocks off all attackers.
It is Toad, and he's looking BADASS.
As badass as a little mushroom guy with a happy face can look anyway.
It makes sense. Peach was so strong in Melee, I think, because of the comic value of a damsel in distress being able to actually kick the *** of her dragon assaulter. Toad is kind of the same, he was always that supposed guard who was always useless, so.. now it's payback time.
h1roshi
Smash Hero
um, yeah w/e, toad is too good. toad for brawl...peace
-hiroshi
-hiroshi
digifreak642
Smash Journeyman
Toad's strength bar had the most, therefore he was the strongest.
h1roshi
Smash Hero
toad is the 7th food group!!!!!!!!!!!...peace
-hiroshi
-hiroshi
I don't think Toad is a good choice, sure he's been in all the Super Mario Bros era games and came out shouting Peach was in another castle...he is or was on the first eight Mario Spin Off characters, he had his own game Wario Woods, and appeared as a sidekick character in that one game (I forgot it's name) lol....
but.........
After the Bros separated, Toad has been replaced by Toadsworth, and that was basically the only way Toad could have gotten in Brawl.
Firght eight grew into 20+, that really doesn't matter if he was in the first group...If first is what should get a Mario character to be in Brawl...PAULINE better be in Smash, since she was one of the first THREE.
Wario woods gets to be represented by a character and not Mario Land??? How unfair, besides the fact that Dr. Mario took the spot in Melee representing the puzzle genre for Mario...also Toad wasn't the only important character in that game, Birdo and Wanda were also very important, especially Wanda.
If Wario & Mario puzzle games get represented it should be Wanda to appear and not Toad, since she was the first character to appear in the first Wario & Mario puzzle game and appeared in this game Wario Woods, she's a better rep. and is owed a return.
A sidekick role is the same thing as hero, but with less importance.
Lets take a look at other Possible Mario characters or Characters that are owed a return:
Wanda: Sidekick/ Hero
Toad: Sidekick/Hero
Daisy: Damsel in Distress
Geno: Sidekick/ Hero
Waluigi: Villain?
Mallow: Sidekick/ Hero
Paper Mario: Sidekick/ Hero
Birdo: Villain
Pauline: Damsel in Distress
Bowser Jr: Villain
Fawful: Villain
Cackletta: Villain
Prince Peasley: Sidekick/ Hero.
Now people say Bowser Jr., Toad, and Geno are the most possible ones...Well adding them to the present Mario characters and kicking out Dr. MArio this is what we get:
Mario Franchise:
4 heroes
2 Villains
1 Damsel in Distress'
How is that sooo much variety?
First off, Toad doesn't represent anything different from the present Mario characters in Melee, if he gets to be in repping his one game...Why not give the space to Wanda who is on the edge of being forgotten forever?
Then there are other characters who contributed to different things in the Mario franchise and are actually Major characters...
& I personally find it that 3 heroes should be enough for the Mario franchise representation, seeing as how Damsels in Distress and Villains together don't even take up half of the roster size in Melee...there should be more of those two categories put in, because they are also the key to the game's success and should not be left out even if they are not playable.
but.........
After the Bros separated, Toad has been replaced by Toadsworth, and that was basically the only way Toad could have gotten in Brawl.
Firght eight grew into 20+, that really doesn't matter if he was in the first group...If first is what should get a Mario character to be in Brawl...PAULINE better be in Smash, since she was one of the first THREE.
Wario woods gets to be represented by a character and not Mario Land??? How unfair, besides the fact that Dr. Mario took the spot in Melee representing the puzzle genre for Mario...also Toad wasn't the only important character in that game, Birdo and Wanda were also very important, especially Wanda.
If Wario & Mario puzzle games get represented it should be Wanda to appear and not Toad, since she was the first character to appear in the first Wario & Mario puzzle game and appeared in this game Wario Woods, she's a better rep. and is owed a return.
A sidekick role is the same thing as hero, but with less importance.
Lets take a look at other Possible Mario characters or Characters that are owed a return:
Wanda: Sidekick/ Hero
Toad: Sidekick/Hero
Daisy: Damsel in Distress
Geno: Sidekick/ Hero
Waluigi: Villain?
Mallow: Sidekick/ Hero
Paper Mario: Sidekick/ Hero
Birdo: Villain
Pauline: Damsel in Distress
Bowser Jr: Villain
Fawful: Villain
Cackletta: Villain
Prince Peasley: Sidekick/ Hero.
Now people say Bowser Jr., Toad, and Geno are the most possible ones...Well adding them to the present Mario characters and kicking out Dr. MArio this is what we get:
Mario Franchise:
4 heroes
2 Villains
1 Damsel in Distress'
How is that sooo much variety?
First off, Toad doesn't represent anything different from the present Mario characters in Melee, if he gets to be in repping his one game...Why not give the space to Wanda who is on the edge of being forgotten forever?
Then there are other characters who contributed to different things in the Mario franchise and are actually Major characters...
& I personally find it that 3 heroes should be enough for the Mario franchise representation, seeing as how Damsels in Distress and Villains together don't even take up half of the roster size in Melee...there should be more of those two categories put in, because they are also the key to the game's success and should not be left out even if they are not playable.
The "runaway" argument: I disagree completely. Speaking in terms of SMB, the Toads were captured, not exiled. Peach and Toad(s) were both imprisoned, so that deflates that part of the argument. And as for his strength: in SMB2, Toad can lift veggies, blocks, enemies, etc. faster than any of the three other characters. Yes, SMB2 takes place in the dream world of Subcon, but by the same token: if stats and such in this "dream world" have no bearing in Brawl, why can Peach float and why can Luigi jump so much higher than Mario?
A lot of the recent arguments against Toad don't really discount his probability of being in Brawl, they just state a one-sided view of his character. The same types of arguments could be applied to Peach as of Melee. At that point, she had yet to star in her own game, and was only a selectable adventure-game character in SMB2--just like Toad. Her only forays into the playable arena were the spin-offs: Mario Kart, Mario Party, Mario Tennis, etc. Toad had likewise participated in those games (save MP 1-4). Just remember that you can't further a discussion by repeating your original argument again, especially once it has been refuted. =)
A lot of the recent arguments against Toad don't really discount his probability of being in Brawl, they just state a one-sided view of his character. The same types of arguments could be applied to Peach as of Melee. At that point, she had yet to star in her own game, and was only a selectable adventure-game character in SMB2--just like Toad. Her only forays into the playable arena were the spin-offs: Mario Kart, Mario Party, Mario Tennis, etc. Toad had likewise participated in those games (save MP 1-4). Just remember that you can't further a discussion by repeating your original argument again, especially once it has been refuted. =)