Toad/Captain Toad for Smash, Toad Brigade Assemble!

[ChronoBound]

Probably has something to do with him being created solely for spin-offs. I mean, it's what he is. He's the spin-off character. Even the few who had a similar situation have nowhere near the same reputation popularity(Baby Daisy, Baby Rosalina, Pink Gold Peach, who all debuted in Mario Kart no less). I mean you could say the other Metals are more liked due to Mario Party II's first appearance(Metal Luigi, Metal Peach, Metal Donkey Kong, Metal Yoshi), or even Metal Dr. Mario(from Dr. Mario 64), but Waluigi isn't just the only truly unique one to appear in tons of different games among the Spin-off Originals, he's the only one that's reasonably well-liked. .

Here is the thing though. Waluigi is not the only notable Mario character that was created solely for spinoffs. Just like Waluigi, Toadette was created with the sole purpose of giving an existing character a partner. Toadette also made her first game appearance only three years after Waluigi did.

However, here is the thing. Toadette has made her way into major roles both playable and nonplayable in the mainline series and has even been one of the two heroes for a spinoff title (Captain Toad). Toadette has even had some notable roles in a few of the RPGs.

Toadette is a very well liked character, and she is even referred to as a rising star by Nintendo themselves.

Here is a look at what Toadette's roles outside of spinoffs have been:

Platformers:

Super Mario Run: Playable character (only one of two characters playable in that game that are still not playable in Smash Bros., the other being Toad)
New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe: Playable character
Super Mario Maker 2: Playable character
Super Mario Odyssey: Major NPC (she gives you the most moons of any NPC in Odyssey)

Major spinoff:
Captan Toad: Treasure Tracker

RPGS
Paper Mario The Thousand Year Door: Host of the game's new ability tutorials
Mario & Luigi Paper Jam: Major NPC

Toadette has a very impressive resume that she has racked up just from the last four years alone. Heck, just this year we have her making playable appearances in TWO Mario platformer titles.

When people say Waluigi would "rep" the Mario "spinoff titles", just like Toad, Toadette is overlooked.

Toad and Toadette have both the main series and spinoffs covered as far as a "deserving" newcomer go. The fact is, you would be hard pressed to find characters that have a more impressive resume than just Toadette alone.

Toadette now has more mainline series appearances under her belt than both Waluigi and Daisy combined.

The fact that Toadette's accomplishments is overlooked in a topic about Toad support itself just goes to show just the sheer magnitude of work that the Toad fanbase has cut out for it. Toad is a Nintendo All-Star, and Toadette is a proclaimed "rising star".

Toadette was a spinoff exclusive character that managed to break out into the mainline series. For the first 11 years of that character's history, her sole notable role outside of the spinoffs was in Paper Mario The Thousand Year Door (which only happened a year after her debut appearance). Since Captain Toad, Toadette has branched out to multiple platformer installments and made another RPG role.

Fans of Toad have a tough road ahead of them, no doubt. As I said a few weeks ago, there is a part of me that wants to do an extensive essay on the Toads like I am doing with Dixie Kong. I would write about not just the credentials of the Toads, but their potential as fighters, as well as possibly a few ideas on how the Toad fanbase could build itself into something that would be able to make it stand out from existing character fanbases. However, I simply do not have the time for it or the passion (I care much more about Dixie Kong honestly). However, I will consider possibly doing it.

Toad is a character I am very sympathetic to. He is a character that might very well have been kept out of Smash Bros. due to a compromise made very early in the series's history (Toad being made into Peach's special). He now has both a specific incarnation, Captain Toad, that is a notable re-occurring character in the 3D platformers titles and has his own spinoff title, as well as his main spinoff partner that was initially spinoff exclusive but now alongside the likes of Mario and Luigi in the mainline series.

As I said about Dixie Kong, Toad is a gift to the future. Many younger Smash Bros. fans might have come to the realization that all of the biggest Nintendo characters have already been added to the series at this point (this might be a primary factory about why some of them are gravitating towards "effectively retro" characters, they want to feel as being part of a "legacy"). However, one of the biggest is still not in yet. Toad is a character that has been cherished by Nintendo fans going all the way back to the 1980's. A history of over 30 years. Fans to Toad have struggled to give him the notice he deserves. However, in a pool, where most of the Nintendo characters left people are championing are either "effectively retro" (have not had a major role in their franchise for over 15 years) or characters whom are merely only part of an ensemble cast, the Toads, despite their very short stature, stand very tall. A legacy going back to the 1980's gives a very rich history for younger Nintendo fans to appreciate the character.

However, going back to the original impetus for this post, the idea that "Waluigi is the spinoff representative" is yet another example of the Toads being overlooked. Toadette had the same history and purpose as Waluigi did, yet Toadette has done the incredible, she has broken out into the mainline series, and is on track to being one of Nintendo's most admirable heroines.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Here is the thing though. Waluigi is not the only notable Mario character that was created solely for spinoffs. Just like Waluigi, Toadette was created with the sole purpose of giving an existing character a partner. Toadette also made her first game appearance only three years after Waluigi did.

However, here is the thing. Toadette has made her way into major roles both playable and nonplayable in the mainline series and has even been one of the two heroes for a spinoff title (Captain Toad). Toadette has even had some notable roles in a few of the RPGs.

Toadette is a very well liked character, and she is even referred to as a rising star by Nintendo themselves.

Here is a look at what Toadette's roles outside of spinoffs have been:

Platformers:

Super Mario Run: Playable character (only one of two characters playable in that game that are still not playable in Smash Bros., the other being Toad)
New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe: Playable character
Super Mario Maker 2: Playable character
Super Mario Odyssey: Major NPC (she gives you the most moons of any NPC in Odyssey)

Major spinoff:
Captan Toad: Treasure Tracker

RPGS
Paper Mario The Thousand Year Door: Host of the game's new ability tutorials
Mario & Luigi Paper Jam: Major NPC

Toadette has a very impressive resume that she has racked up just from the last four years alone. Heck, just this year we have her making playable appearances in TWO Mario platformer titles.

When people say Waluigi would "rep" the Mario "spinoff titles", just like Toad, Toadette is overlooked.

Toad and Toadette have both the main series and spinoffs covered as far as a "deserving" newcomer go. The fact is, you would be hard pressed to find characters that have a more impressive resume than just Toadette alone.

Toadette now has more mainline series appearances under her belt than both Waluigi and Daisy combined.

The fact that Toadette's accomplishments is overlooked in a topic about Toad support itself just goes to show just the sheer magnitude of work that the Toad fanbase has cut out for it. Toad is a Nintendo All-Star, and Toadette is a proclaimed "rising star".

Toadette was a spinoff exclusive character that managed to break out into the mainline series. For the first 11 years of that character's history, her sole notable role outside of the spinoffs was in Paper Mario The Thousand Year Door (which only happened a year after her debut appearance). Since Captain Toad, Toadette has branched out to multiple platformer installments and made another RPG role.

Fans of Toad have a tough road ahead of them, no doubt. As I said a few weeks ago, there is a part of me that wants to do an extensive essay on the Toads like I am doing with Dixie Kong. I would write about not just the credentials of the Toads, but their potential as fighters, as well as possibly a few ideas on how the Toad fanbase could build itself into something that would be able to make it stand out from existing character fanbases. However, I simply do not have the time for it or the passion (I care much more about Dixie Kong honestly). However, I will consider possibly doing it.

Toad is a character I am very sympathetic to. He is a character that might very well have been kept out of Smash Bros. due to a compromise made very early in the series's history (Toad being made into Peach's special). He now has both a specific incarnation, Captain Toad, that is a notable re-occurring character in the 3D platformers titles and has his own spinoff title, as well as a female counterpart that was initially spinoff exclusive but now alongside the likes of Mario and Luigi in the mainline series.

As I said about Dixie Kong, Toad is a gift to the future. Many younger Smash Bros. fans might have come to the realization that all of the biggest Nintendo characters have already been added to the series at this point (this might be a primary factory about why some of them are gravitating towards "effectively retro" characters, they want to feel as being part of a "legacy"). However, one of the biggest is still not in yet. Toad is a character that has been cherished by Nintendo fans going all the way back to the 1980's. A history of over 30 years. Fans to Toad have struggled to give him the notice he deserves. However, in a pool, where most of the Nintendo characters left people are championing are either "effectively retro" (have not had a major role in their franchise for over 15 years) or characters whom are merely only part of an ensemble cast, the Toads, despite their very short stature, stand very tall. A legacy going back to the 1980's gives a very rich history for younger Nintendo fans to appreciate the character.

However, the going back to the original impetus for this post, the idea that "Waluigi is the spinoff representative" is yet another example of the Toads being overlooked. Toadette had the same history and purpose as Waluigi did, yet Toadette has done the incredible, she has broken out into the mainline series, and is on track to being one of Nintendo's most admirable heroines.

...And Waluigi has zero appearances outside of spin-offs. That was my point(and what I meant. I probably said that a bit poorly). Toadette is also a member of the Toad species, which started off from the first game. It's not exactly the same situation either. I meant actual spin-off only characters. Toadette isn't an example of that. Though her being more or less a regular Toad probably has a lot to do with why she broke off from the spin-off thing. If she's in games besides spin-offs, she isn't the "spin-off representative", as I was pretty strict in how I defined that. Zero mainline appearances is the key to that point. Created for and never appearing outside of that. She absolutely could've shared that role, but she didn't.

Captain Toad is a different person than main Toad. I wouldn't say he's a specific incarnation so much as a different person altogether. It's not really the same way as ones like Dr. Mario are, or how Metal Mario is in Mario Kart(which were literally the same person, while Captain Toad is another member of the race in general. Just like Toadette, or Toadsworth are. Odd part is Captain Toadette and Toadette apparently are the same person in comparison?) I mean, one literally has his most notable feature as "can't jump"(not that it isn't possible to work around that entirely and still make an interesting character without ignoring their key ability. Even if that ability is more like a character flaw, but still important). The other meanwhile is more of an average guy in abilities(moreso than Mario at times), but also had a ton of different roles, spin-off or otherwise.

Well, she has Captain Toad and New Super Mario Bros. as mainline appearances. There's also Super Mario Run, which... is barely a real mainline game to begin with anyway(where all the mainline platformers have a bare minimum story, I don't remember Super Mario Run even having that much?) It just doesn't seem to really do anything other than throw a bunch of characters into the platforming genre as is. I'd count that as much as Super Mario Maker, though. They're just regular platformers by all means. In a twist, Waluigi is in SMM, so I guess he isn't true spin-off only either. He's just far more known for that than Toadette, probably due to having an earlier start, doesn't have a second official version of himself(like we have Captain Toadette, meaning there's not another version of him to know, so the popularity is split between two). While, as I said, I meant popularity among pure spin-off characters(but only if you don't count Super Mario Maker as mainline), my bad on forgetting Toadette's origins(it's definitely more complicated than Waluigi's though. One felt like they were already meant for things beyond the spin-offs. In a twist, it was the Toad race that got hardwired into Paper Mario as the only worthwhile npc's).

 

[ChronoBound]

...And Waluigi has zero appearances outside of spin-offs. That was my point(and what I meant. I probably said that a bit poorly).

Toadette was a spinoff exclusive character for most of her history though. It was only when the character was already 11 years old that she had her first major role outside of the spinoff titles (aside from that one off tutorial hosting role in Thousand Year Door), which was Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker. Since then, she has steadily been making more and more mainline appearances.

I also think that if Waluigi started to make appearances in Wario's games, or had his own spinoff, you would be using a different language metric on what Waluigi's "rep role" would be.

Toadette is also a member of the Toad species, which started off from the first game. It's not exactly the same situation either. I meant actual spin-off only characters. Toadette isn't an example of that.

Toadette being a member of the mushroom-race has no bearing on her not being less of her own being than Waluigi is. You can make just as much an argument that Waluigi is simply a gangly, lanky Wario.

Though her being more or less a regular Toad probably has a lot to do with why she broke off from the spin-off thing. If she's in games besides spin-offs, she isn't the "spin-off representative", as I was pretty strict in how I defined that. Zero mainline appearances is the key to that point. Created for and never appearing outside of that. She absolutely could've shared that role, but she didn't.

As I said earlier, Toadette was spinoff exclusive for most of her history. If Waluigi makes an appearance outside of the spinoffs, you will very quickly lose your talking point, and let me say, "spinoff rep" is a very weak talking point for character inclusion.

Other than Captain Toad, isn't Toadette's only mainline appearance Super Mario Run, which... is barely a real mainline game to begin with anyway.

I literally listed every single non-spinoff appearance Toadette has made in my earlier post. She is a playable character in New Super Mario U Deluxe, which was released back in January. That is as mainline as you can get. She was also a major NPC in Super Mario Odyssey, as she gives out the most moons of any NPC in the game.

I'd count that as much as Super Mario Maker, though. They're just regular platformers by all means. In a twist, Waluigi is in SMM, so I guess he isn't true spin-off only either.

A ton of characters get a Mystery Mushroom costume (in the original Mario Maker, almost the entire Smash 4 roster did). What's Toadette has going for her in Super Mario Maker 2 is that it seems she will be playable across the five different themes to the game, as opposed to just Super Mario Bros. 1 like the Mystery Mushroom characters.

He's just far more known for that than Toadette, probably due to having an earlier start, doesn't have a second official version of himself(like we have Captain Toadette, meaning there's not another version of him to know, so the popularity is split between two).

I highly doubt the existence of "Captain" Toadette has any splitting on Toadette's popularity. I very much doubt there is much of any individuals that like "Captain" Toadete and not regular Toadette.

I think Waluigi's present advantage in popularity comes mostly from a more consistent attendance rate in the spinoffs as opposed to a three year seniority. Toadette was gone from Mario titles for six years (her last appearance was 2008's Mario Super Sluggers), and she did not return until 2014 (where she made playable appearances in Mario Kart 7, Mario Golf: World Tour, and Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker). Six years is a long time, and long hiatuses for appearances is something that does impact character popularity.

I think if Toadette continues to make mainline appearances her popularity will probably continue to grow. She is a very lovable and endearing character.

While, as I said, I meant popularity among pure spin-off characters(but only if you don't count Super Mario Maker as mainline), my bad on forgetting Toadette's origins(it's definitely more complicated than Waluigi's though. One felt like they were already meant for things beyond the spin-offs. In a twist, it was the Toad race that got hardwired into Paper Mario as the only worthwhile npc's).

Toadette was never any more meant for anything beyond the spinoffs than Waluigi was. Waluigi was literally created to be a partner for Wario in Mario Tennis, and Toadette had literally the same exact origins in Mario Kart Double Dash to the point where Toad was kept as a hidden character in that game simply so Toadette would debut alongside him.

Toadette simply had a miraculous turnaround. As mentioned earlier, she was gone from Mario games for six years. That is a typical console generation in terms of time. She did not start to make regular appearances in the spinoff titles again until 2014, and her first major role outside of the spinoffs was also that year. Since then she has steadily been having major roles outside of the spinoffs (Mario & Luigi Paper Jam, Super Mario Run, Super Mario Odyssey, New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe, and the upcoming Super Mario Maker 2). Toadette has even been referred to as a "rising star" in the trailer for New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe.

Toadette breaking out from the spinoff titles is simply a very new development for the character.

 

[Dinoman96]

The key difference between Toadette and Wah is that the former was actually created by EAD (now EPD).

Waluigi on the other hand is a Camelot creation. Which is kind of a problem, because EAD/EPD have shown time and time again that they're not super crazy using other developers' characters within their games. They once even tried phasing out Rare's Donkey Kong characters with their own OCs for Jungle Beat, because they, in Koizumis's words, weren't "fresh enough".

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm going to condense this a bit. There's just a bit too much said, with a lot of repeated points;

I do believe Waluigi would make sense as the spin-off representative only because he's had zero mainline appearances. Right now, that's his thing. No other character who had a lot of spin-off appearances(Daisy or Toadette) can claim this. So it's a different situation. Of course, yeah, if he finally gets a mainline Mario appearance(I wouldn't count anything but Super Mario, as the Wario Land and WarioWare series are still a spin-off of the Mario franchise to some degree. He also has a cameo in a WarioWare game, so if any appearance counted at that point, it should've been that).

Toadette actually had less personality than Waluigi did, but established herself within her next appearance pretty quickly. https://www.mariowiki.com/Toadette BTW, her wiki page. She actually wasn't in a Mario game for 5 years, not 6. Regardless, she's definitely consistent among the Spin-offs, but overall evolved beyond that. Waluigi never did. Hence, their situations are overall different. Even then, yes, I was mistaken that Waluigi was the only beloved spin-off character, but he's also the only one who hasn't become a mainline character too, so it's a bit different of a situation.

Also, I just noticed that Vanna T. and Toadette have the same Japanese name. Maybe Toadette was loosely based upon her? That would make some sense. There were female Toads first introduced in Paper Mario, after all. That is, ones with very clear genders. Previous games weren't clear(besides the main Toad) if they had some kind of gender.

I also finally figured out why Super Mario Run is a mainline game. Same story as Super Mario Bros. 1. Go on an Adventure to rescue Peach. Super Mario Maker is a spin-off because it doesn't have that story. Now that makes sense. Yay for that wiki. Anyway, Toadette isn't known pretty much for only spin-offs. Daisy is more known for that at this point, and she was a mainline character originally, so... among the 3 most consistent spin-off characters(Waluigi, Daisy, Toadette), they all are overall different in how they go about it. Waluigi wasn't just made for spin-offs, but kept there. Daisy was made as a Peach replacement, and soon became her de facto partner. Toadette was made "similar" to Waluigi, but they have a lot more differences in design, personality variation, and one didn't stay as a spin-off only character.

The key difference between Toadette and Wah is that the former was actually created by EAD (now EPD).

Waluigi on the other hand is a Camelot creation. Which is kind of a problem, because EAD/EPD have shown time and time again that they're not super crazy using other developers' characters within their games. They once even tried phasing out Rare's Donkey Kong characters with their own OCs for Jungle Beat, because they, in Koizumis's words, weren't "fresh enough".

And this too. Though I'd say the fact Waluigi had more personality than being a carbon copy of Wario helped. Toadette was near identical to Toad from the start, effectively being a genderswap counterpart. She very quickly got more differences in her next appearance, so she and Waluigi feel the same idea, very high personality characters while originating as partners for a character. They just had some creation differences.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Why would they even compete as "spin-off rep?"'
Waluigi was born and raised in the sports spin-offs, and would likely pull from both those games. Toadette would most likeky pull from her own moveset potential and the classic Mario Kart items

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

It's less competition and more of Waluigi possibly being passed over until they completely run out of notable Mario characters.

The key difference between Toadette and Wah is that the former was actually created by EAD (now EPD).

Waluigi on the other hand is a Camelot creation. Which is kind of a problem, because EAD/EPD have shown time and time again that they're not super crazy using other developers' characters within their games. They once even tried phasing out Rare's Donkey Kong characters with their own OCs for Jungle Beat, because they, in Koizumis's words, weren't "fresh enough".

Yeah, didn't Daisy's appearance in Super Mario Run happen specifically because one division got fused into EAD/EPD?

Granted, Japanese devs in general do prefer to use their own creations, but Waluigi's case is one of the more obstructive ones. Hell, Wah outright got cut out of Mario Kart once, you can imagine how well THAT blew over...

 

[fogbadge]

how did we get on to waluigi?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Time for adventure!

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...e_trackers_special_episode_dlc_launches_today

Also, that title is snazzy-looking. I do hope to get the Switch version sooner or later tho.

 

[YoshiandToad]

IS IT TIME?

IT IS TIME.

TIME FOR ADVENTURE GANG.

ADVENTURES WITH BOTH CAPTAIN TOAD AND TOADETTE AT THE SAME TIME.

18 new challenges(or five new levels). Download, enjoy, give me your thoughts!

 

[fogbadge]

wait the dlc is out? typical you go to the cinema and you miss out

better check nintendo uk for my own region

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Yo there Toad Brigade. Long time no see~

I think I hadn't popped in this forum much since last year's final month into the release window. Needless to say I felt like coming here to share in to the celebration.

That strangely strong faith and support on Captain Toad has allowed to do the impossible once again, with major gameplay update and DLC levels on top. It feels strangely nostalgic to the time I saw his game announced back in E3 2014.

Anyway, here's to Captain Toad still finding new places to venture even after being forced to miss the boat on Smash up to this point. What a plucky fun guy.

I would like a new 2D Mario game with a map system similar to Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins. It was nice to be able to visit all worlds in any order and not have to beat all levels in one world just to see the next world. Imagine Mushroom Kingdom with that map system! Maybe New Super Mario Bros. 3 could do that.

Somehow I'm reminded of Paper Mario Next Gens (which I refer Post-SPP games like Sticker Star and Color Splash as) with this, with their overdone level themes seen in NSMB-games, and suddenly don't want that. At least SML2's map system was largely helped by the fact that all the "Zones" found in Mario Land were all completely unique and quirky types of themes for each world. Might be sound harsh here but again, I hope the map system isn't just a minor innovation to justify another NSMB-game that doesn't do much new (Hah.), compared to last games.

 

[fogbadge]

man the dlc is awesome id love to see some of it in smash, goomba galleon as i mentioned before and cocoa meltdown. forget your rising acid/lava levels rising cocoa would be much better

 

[Deleted member]

Captain Toad would be cool to have in Smash, yeah.
Not much else to say doh, since many users probably have shared all the stuff I could say.

 

[fogbadge]

Captain Toad would be cool to have in Smash, yeah.
Not much else to say doh, since many users probably have shared all the stuff I could say.

want on the support list?

 

[Deleted member]

want on the support list?

Sure.

 

[fogbadge]

Sure.

done, welcome to the brigade

 

[Arcadenik]

Been playing New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe lately. I love that solo players can play as Toad and Toadette. No more being forced to play as Mario only. It’s the closest thing we have to Toad’s and Toadette’s own side-scrolling game.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Been playing New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe lately. I love that solo players can play as Toad and Toadette. No more being forced to play as Mario only. It’s the closest thing we have to Toad’s and Toadette’s own side-scrolling game.

What about Super Mario Run? I mean, it's a bit of a different kind of platformer, but can't you play as either of them specifically if you want to?

 

[fogbadge]

What about Super Mario Run? I mean, it's a bit of a different kind of platformer, but can't you play as either of them specifically if you want to?

well endless runners arent quite the same

 

[YoshiandToad]

What about Super Mario Run? I mean, it's a bit of a different kind of platformer, but can't you play as either of them specifically if you want to?

I guess there's also SMB2,

...as long as you ignore Toadette anyway.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I guess there's also SMB2,

...as long as you ignore Toadette anyway.

And Super Mario 3D World. Same deal.

 

[Arcadenik]

What about Super Mario Run? I mean, it's a bit of a different kind of platformer, but can't you play as either of them specifically if you want to?

Yeah, you could do that. I played Super Mario Run. It was fun while it lasted. I prefer the New Super Mario Bros. games. More control over your character.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah, you could do that. I played Super Mario Run. It was fun while it lasted. I prefer the New Super Mario Bros. games. More control over your character.

I just want an actual new platformer game in the Mario series. They're recycling the formula too close with NSMB. It's like rehashing Street Fighter II. It's not a bad formula, but it's neither new nor interesting. If they would actually have more playable characters, I'd be willing to pick up a new one. I basically got NSMBU for free(bundle deal) and picked up NSMB(DS) and never bothered with another at any point. They didn't anything to really change up to the formula at all. Make way more playable and I'll finally have interest. I want to play as Peach. Wario, Even Waluigi. And so on. They had it right with the earlier scrolling platformers by innovating over and over. Here they're not really trying to liven it up. I felt more differences from the Mario Parties and Karts, honestly. They're solid games, but don't spark any actual interest to me. Though I will pick up Odyssey at some point. While no 3D game has outdone Super Mario 64 for me yet, I still liked those games because they did something new. Sure, I found Sunshine meh since the controls didn't feel very solid(lol, water joke. But no, Mario was way too slippery. I felt more control in Shadow the Hedgehog, which is saying something. That game, as much as I like it, has a lot of control issues. I won't go into how cheesy it is and the unneeded swearing. Even if it's memetastic. I will say I found the gunplay great and fitting for a person who grew up in a military base, though). Galaxy and Galaxy 2 were fun, but I prefer being able to attack with Mario normally, and the Wii controls were kind of ehhhhhhish to me. Good ideas, just didn't do it for me.

I haven't played 3D land(or was that world? I forget. It's the 3DS game. I did play Mario + Rabbids, and that game is amazing. I really really like this one. This is pretty much the first 3D Mario game console-wise I fully got into since Super Mario 64). I didn't like the Wii NSMB games cause the wii remote controls felt too shoehorned in and arbitrary. The only thing it remotely did of use was "shaking the controller", and it barely felt needed. A bit of button mashing could've replaced that and it would've worked fine. In fact, I think the only time where the Wii Remote was truly needed was that you could point at your teammates to burst their bubbles to save them or something. Otherwise, I'll honestly say the controls were nothing to write home about. Meanwhile Super Paper Mario felt a bit better. The pointing at the screen thing has some very good usage. It felt like it actually tried. Hell, I'll give the Secret Rings some credit too, along with Black Knight. The tilting was fully used, despite being a bit slippery, as well as the "waggle" was very useful. It actually felt like it innovated. They're not topnotch games, but I had more fun because the controls didn't feel arbitrary in any way. Though to be fair, I still found 06 more enjoyable than Secret Rings, but that's not saying much since SR really wasn't a good game by any means. It had great music, but the level design was mediocre at best and many of the challenges were horribly designed. Not saying 06 isn't flawed, but other than Mach Speed, I had no issues with the game at all(the glitches needed fixing, but other than literally one glitch that constantly happens in multiplayer if two people try to use the same spring and get stuck, nothing caused me real issues). I'll be fair; I didn't play the final level myself. And the load times were ass. Like, no denying that. What I'd like to see from a 2D game, though, is to keep it more like what Super Mario Maker is doing. Fully changing it up with tons on innovation, but still sticking to many of the same formula pieces. Just not rehashing it outright.

 

[fogbadge]

as long as you ignore Toadette anyway.

who would ever do such a thing?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2019/03/feature_the_best_3d_platformers_on_nintendo_switch

Hmm, good to see the captain brought up in a good light despite some stiff competition. Also, no Hat in Time?

who would ever do such a thing?

That was phrased poorly, he meant that she isn't in that game. Unless there's a version of SMB2 I don't know of that lets you play as her.

 

[fogbadge]

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2019/03/feature_the_best_3d_platformers_on_nintendo_switch

Hmm, good to see the captain brought up in a good light despite some stiff competition. Also, no Hat in Time?



That was phrased poorly, he meant that she isn't in that game. Unless there's a version of SMB2 I don't know of that lets you play as her.

no she first appeared in mario kart double dash many years later

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

no she first appeared in mario kart double dash many years later

I know of that.

Eh, just forget I said anything earlier.

 

[fogbadge]

I know of that.

Eh, just forget I said anything earlier.

oh sorry i misread what you typed a little, in answer to what you actually said, i imagine theres a mod somewhere

 

[1FC0]

Sure, I found Sunshine meh since the controls didn't feel very solid(lol, water joke. But no, Mario was way too slippery. I felt more control in Shadow the Hedgehog, which is saying something. That game, as much as I like it, has a lot of control issues.

What do you mean slippery? Do you mean that Mario slipped on the ground? I played the game and do not remember having those problems at all. Mario was great at maneuvering in tight spots too and could even do his Side Jump in tight spots. Maybe my memory is bad but I think Sunshine had much better controls than Shadow the Hedgehog had.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

What do you mean slippery? Do you mean that Mario slipped on the ground? I played the game and do not remember having those problems at all. Mario was great at maneuvering in tight spots too and could even do his Side Jump in tight spots. Maybe my memory is bad but I think Sunshine had much better controls than Shadow the Hedgehog had.

I couldn't control Mario much at all. He slipped everywhere and it wasn't tight in any way. I constantly fell off the side of stages(which weren't well-designed either). I never had much of an issue with Shadow besides him not stopping on a dime at all, but the controls worked extremely well. The game itself just had a few stage bugs in comparison. Still was easier to control than Unleashed(day stages) ever was, though. Oy, that wasn't really well-designed as a game. -_-

 

[1FC0]

I couldn't control Mario much at all. He slipped everywhere and it wasn't tight in any way. I constantly fell off the side of stages(which weren't well-designed either). I never had much of an issue with Shadow besides him not stopping on a dime at all, but the controls worked extremely well. The game itself just had a few stage bugs in comparison. Still was easier to control than Unleashed(day stages) ever was, though. Oy, that wasn't really well-designed as a game. -_-

Guess opinions differ. I loved the controls and stages. Like I said I remember it being very tight and the small stages where just challenging to me. Mario Sunshine had difficult but fair challenges IMO. Though maybe I will play it again sometime, double-checking my memory.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Guess opinions differ. I loved the controls and stages. Like I said I remember it being very tight and the small stages where just challenging to me. Mario Sunshine had difficult but fair challenges IMO. Though maybe I will play it again sometime, double-checking my memory.

There is nothing fair about the Pachinko level. It's pretty much horrifically designed. The levels were... okay at best(if you look at them as a whole. Some were good, some were bad). I never could remotely beat the game, and I never had issues with the first Legend of Zelda(which is a better example of challenging but fair, having very tight controls, with the only real disadvantage being the lack of slash. Well, there's the 3 heart factor if you restart/die at best, but that's not that hard to work with) nor the first Super Mario Bros.(except Level 8-3, but I've almost beaten it. Last level isn't hard in comparison). And those games were reasonably challenging but fair. Sunshine has way too much stuff that doesn't work very well. The controls aren't really that great, as you can't even hover decently. It's a neat game, and the idea of F.L.U.D.D. is neat too, but it really could use some improvements and tightening for a remake.

Ironically Super Mario 64's remake actually made the game far harder to control. XD

 

[fogbadge]

ooh imagine a sunshine remake with luigi, peach and toad playable

 

[1FC0]

Ironically Super Mario 64's remake actually made the game far harder to control. XD

That was because the DS had no control stick. They tried compensating for it by making the characters make sort of circling turns when you turn around in any other direction than 180 degrees but it just makes some levels with small platforms like Tick Tock Clock annoying because it causes your character to walk right off.

I heard that Mario 64 was meant to showcase the control stick of the N64 by making good use of it. If that is true then that makes Mario 64 a weird choice to port to the DS.

 

[Lenidem]

That was because the DS had no control stick. They tried compensating for it by making the characters make sort of circling turns when you turn around in any other direction than 180 degrees but it just makes some levels with small platforms like Tick Tock Clock annoying because it causes your character to walk right off.

I heard that Mario 64 was meant to showcase the control stick of the N64 by making good use of it. If that is true then that makes Mario 64 a weird choice to port to the DS.

I agree with that. The DS should have had a stick from the beginning, or the port should have waited a version of the DS with a stick. And that's too bad, because apart from that, this remake is excellent: more playable characters, more stars, bosses and secret levels, mini-games...

I had no problem with Sunshine's controls. What was really unfair in this game was the secret blue coins: it's impossible to find them all by yourself...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That was because the DS had no control stick. They tried compensating for it by making the characters make sort of circling turns when you turn around in any other direction than 180 degrees but it just makes some levels with small platforms like Tick Tock Clock annoying because it causes your character to walk right off.

I heard that Mario 64 was meant to showcase the control stick of the N64 by making good use of it. If that is true then that makes Mario 64 a weird choice to port to the DS.

Oh, I know why. It was an awful way to port the game. The context was why it's ironic, since usually remakes have better control schemes. That's what I was getting at.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

At the risk of fog getting the thread back on track ASAP, I need to ask...

Does owning a 3DS model of any sort help get around SM64DS' stick issue? It reminds me of Ape Escape's PSP remake and the Vita in that sense.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

At the risk of fog getting the thread back on track ASAP, I need to ask...

Does owning a 3DS model of any sort help get around SM64DS' stick issue? It reminds me of Ape Escape's PSP remake and the Vita in that sense.

No. It's designed to entirely work like a d-pad.

Also, I wouldn't mind another remake of 64, but having just a lot more options and making the characters fully interchangeable instead(like the Pikmin Captains are). So Toad, Mario, Luigi, Wario, Waluigi, Toadette, variant of Shy Guy maybe. Yoshi doesn't have the same type of controls, so it doesn't work right. He could work better as a mount in this case. Peach and Daisy could theoretically work if they wear their sports outfits, though? Also, maybe Toadsworth as a skin.

...Okay, at this point we need a Lego Mario game.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

...Okay, at this point we need a Lego Mario game.

Well, somewhat did beat him to the punch via Dimensions, so why not? At least Traveller's Tales are almost assured to acknowledge Toad's status in one.

The only problem is that when someone wanted to submit a custom Zelda set for approval to Lego a while back, it didn't pass, so it could be troublesome.