Toad/Captain Toad for Smash, Toad Brigade Assemble!

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah I think this is an apples and oranges situation. And besides, they probably want to avoid too much Gen 1 oversaturation for now anyway, so Meowth or anyone else that's more known due to the anime won't immediately be considered until further notice, since the priority seems to firmly be on promotional Pokémon that plug current/upcoming releases.

As far as actual "all-stars" go, once the remaining ones do get in, there will be even more emphasis on B and C-listers than ever before, that I'm certain of.

To be fair, Greninja and Incineroar were both chosen before the respective Pokemon games were out, but they don't actually become playable in a Smash game till after the Pokemon games are out too. They're not really promotional Pokemon in order to make the games sell. It's more the fact that Pokemon is huge so he set aside a slot for the latest Generation because the character would be easily well known. It's basically more akin to the "timing" factor than anything else. You could also say he is using Pokemon to promote Smash, not the other way around.

Mewtwo in 4 was more of a promotional thing to help gauge DLC as a possibility. Actually, I forgot about that earlier, so he's one of the three characters who got into Smash in some way for promotional reasons specifically(though Mewtwo was a returning veteran. There's some theories that it was meant to promote the first two Pokemon movies, though, but I don't remember any accuracy to those statements).

 

[Guynamednelson]

There's some theories that it was meant to promote the first two Pokemon movies, though, but I don't remember any accuracy to those statements

I think Mewtwo's popularity was the biggest influence overall. It was the winning Pokemon on the "If there was a Smash 2" poll, and we all know how unpopular its removal from Brawl was.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I think Mewtwo's popularity was the biggest influence overall. It was the winning Pokemon on the "If there was a Smash 2" poll, and we all know how unpopular its removal from Brawl was.

Oh, no doubt it heavily influenced it. There's a reason it was the character used to promote DLC in the first place.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

To be fair, Greninja and Incineroar were both chosen before the respective Pokemon games were out, but they don't actually become playable in a Smash game till after the Pokemon games are out too. They're not really promotional Pokemon in order to make the games sell. It's more the fact that Pokemon is huge so he set aside a slot for the latest Generation because the character would be easily well known. It's basically more akin to the "timing" factor than anything else. You could also say he is using Pokemon to promote Smash, not the other way around.

Mewtwo in 4 was more of a promotional thing to help gauge DLC as a possibility. Actually, I forgot about that earlier, so he's one of the three characters who got into Smash in some way for promotional reasons specifically(though Mewtwo was a returning veteran. There's some theories that it was meant to promote the first two Pokemon movies, though, but I don't remember any accuracy to those statements).

Yeah, well most Pokémon that got in just so happened to get focus in some way prior to being chosen by Sakurai. Jiggly was a hot topic via the anime back in the 90s, Mewtwo had gotten a movie (for the first time, I know that the Smash 4 DLC is a different story), Lucario is clearly based on his movie incarnation, Ash had a Greninja, and now Incineroar.

So it makes one wonder, is there a chance there will be another Pokémon pick that got less attention via ads/movies/the anime/other tie-in material before getting in? At this stage, I doubt that Pokémon from previous gens will get a chance, never mind from ones that got skipped due to timing (3 and 5).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah, well most Pokémon that got in just so happened to get focus in some way prior to being chosen by Sakurai. Jiggly was a hot topic via the anime back in the 90s, Mewtwo had gotten a movie (for the first time, I know that the Smash 4 DLC is a different story), Lucario is clearly based on his movie incarnation, Ash had a Greninja, and now Incineroar.

So it makes one wonder, is there a chance there will be another Pokémon pick that got less attention via ads/movies/the anime/other tie-in material before getting in? At this stage, I doubt that Pokémon from previous gens will get a chance, never mind from ones that got skipped due to timing (3 and 5).

Greninja was chosen independent of the anime entirely. It's possible Gamefreak made Greninja a focus so it would be accepted in Smash once the public knew of it. Incineroar was intended to have a role in the anime regardless, but it had no influence to our knowledge. Sakurai wanted a wrestler, basically. Decidueye being projectile-heavy(so a focused archer) was the reason he looked at that character. He wanted the wrestler more than the archer.

The rest of the Pokemon did have focus in some way... except Ivysaur. Like, it was never particularly special compared to how much more Bulbasaur and Venusaur were. Even Charmeleon and Wartortle had more focus. Ivysaur was the "last option" at that point. Process of elimination. It is possible he intended for Venusaur to be among Pokemon Trainer, but that's just a guess.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Greninja was chosen independent of the anime entirely. It's possible Gamefreak made Greninja a focus so it would be accepted in Smash once the public knew of it. Incineroar was intended to have a role in the anime regardless, but it had no influence to our knowledge. Sakurai wanted a wrestler, basically. Decidueye being projectile-heavy(so a focused archer) was the reason he looked at that character. He wanted the wrestler more than the archer.

The rest of the Pokemon did have focus in some way... except Ivysaur. Like, it was never particularly special compared to how much more Bulbasaur and Venusaur were. Even Charmeleon and Wartortle had more focus. Ivysaur was the "last option" at that point. Process of elimination. It is possible he intended for Venusaur to be among Pokemon Trainer, but that's just a guess.

In any case, it is a pretty big coincidence. The one thing that would break this current pattern is if Sak's next pick is one that hasn't been given any extra focus by outside parties.

Though it does help that the fighter pass could allow some wiggle room for a Gen 8 starter, depending on when S/S will get out, exactly, so I haven't heard about the anime being ready to move on to that yet. Also, wow, that abbreviation is even more awkward than for Sun & Moon.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

In any case, it is a pretty big coincidence. The one thing that would break this current pattern is if Sak's next pick is one that hasn't been given any extra focus by outside parties.

Though it does help that the fighter pass could allow some wiggle room for a Gen 8 starter, depending on when S/S will get out, exactly, so I haven't heard about the anime being ready to move on to that yet. Also, wow, that abbreviation is even more awkward than for Sun & Moon.

Well, you gotta look at it from Sakurai's aspect; he has to choose over 800 different characters. He goes for the ones with focus or have interesting enough concept art because it's impossible to choose otherwise. He wants one who are already hot or he can see dance in his head.

It's not like with Mario, which has a far smaller cast of characters left to choose from. Sure, we have generic enemies among the table of various characters now too, but it's not like the others are forgotten either. Waluigi is an AT, Captain Toad has a full stage cameo, Toad was always part of a moveset. Some are a bit more like Birdo, with only the small cameo in Mushroom Kingdom II being worth mentioning. Paper Mario generally had a trophy, at least, but also has a stage named after his series. I admit he's also a bit forgotten too, sadly so. Even then, notice how small a list this still is? You could also add King Boo, Goomba, Koopa Troopa, and Shy Guy to it. Though I'd put Shy Guy more under Yoshi, imo, but point stands. Compare it to well over 800 Pokemon left(even before Sword/Shield), and you see which one is a lot easier to choose from.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Well, you gotta look at it from Sakurai's aspect; he has to choose over 800 different characters. He goes for the ones with focus or have interesting enough concept art because it's impossible to choose otherwise. He wants one who are already hot or he can see dance in his head.

It's not like with Mario, which has a far smaller cast of characters left to choose from. Sure, we have generic enemies among the table of various characters now too, but it's not like the others are forgotten either. Waluigi is an AT, Captain Toad has a full stage cameo, Toad was always part of a moveset. Some are a bit more like Birdo, with only the small cameo in Mushroom Kingdom II being worth mentioning. Paper Mario generally had a trophy, at least, but also has a stage named after his series. I admit he's also a bit forgotten too, sadly so. Even then, notice how small a list this still is? You could also add King Boo, Goomba, Koopa Troopa, and Shy Guy to it. Though I'd put Shy Guy more under Yoshi, imo, but point stands. Compare it to well over 800 Pokemon left(even before Sword/Shield), and you see which one is a lot easier to choose from.

Well, that's a fair point. This principle can also be applied to Fire Emblem, which habitually swaps out entire casts outside of a handful of recurrers. Which does lead to the unfortunate issue of lacking weapon variety for the lords, something even Sakurai himself has taken notice. Compared to that, Pokémon has an easier time providing unique moveset possibilities.

Also, good of ya to consider Shy Guy as a Yoshi character, they're far more iconic on that end, imo.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Well, that's a fair point. This principle can also be applied to Fire Emblem, which habitually swaps out entire casts outside of a handful of recurrers. Which does lead to the unfortunate issue of lacking weapon variety for the lords, something even Sakurai himself has taken notice. Compared to that, Pokémon has an easier time providing unique moveset possibilities.

Also, good of ya to consider Shy Guy as a Yoshi character, they're far more iconic on that end, imo.

It's a funny thing about Shy Guy; he debuted in a Mario game, not a Yoshi game. But it's not just because of Super Mario Bros. 2 USA. The original game, Doki Doki Panic, was meant to be a Mario game originally as is. In other words, he was created as a regular Mario enemy from the getgo.

But yeah, Shy Guy plays a way bigger role in the Yoshi games. The species itself is highly defined in the Paper Mario series as well. It's the first series to give them an extremely different amount of alternate species. We still had some in other Mario and Yoshi games, like Bandit, Fly Guy, Propeller Guy, and Snifit. But then you have thing like General Guy, Anti-Guy, and them being the main enemies in Color Splash, being the Goombas of that game, just with a more clear role beyond "main mook"(like Slime would be for Dragon Quest).

 

[fogbadge]

guys can we stick to the toads

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

guys can we stick to the toads

At least we moved on to Mario-related characters.

Besides, all we can do right now is stall until Joker's last surprise gets revealed.

 

[fogbadge]

At least we moved on to Mario-related characters.

Besides, all we can do right now is stall until Joker's last surprise gets revealed.

well ive never known us to have trouble coming up with stuff to talk about

 

[Arcadenik]

Currently there's a lot of talk about trying to get SMRPG revitalized on Smashboards...and I immedietly remembered this little gem...what if he DIDN'T forget his bazooka this time round?

It would be nice if Super Mario RPG gets remade with Toad and Yoshi as new party members. Toad joins the party if you find his bazooka. Yoshi joins the party if you beat Boshi in a race.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I don't want to be that guy, but I get the impression that the Toad in question was being sarcastic, in response to his not being in a position to help.

On a side note, I noticed that the "main" Toad always had his name explicitly shown in the dialogue boxes, so that there is no doubt that he is the heroic one people know of.

 

[Ed-boy]

^Y'know I've pointed this out before on this thread, but it really is odd to me how a number of third-party made Mario spinoffs (Sega with the Olympics series or Square with SMRPG) seem to backup the classic western view of Toad as "the one & the only" while the big N themselves have been practically gung-ho with their own identity-crisis induced mushroom folk as early as Super Mario 64.

 

[warelander]

^Y'know I've pointed this out before on this thread, but it really is odd to me how a number of third-party made Mario spinoffs (Sega with the Olympics series or Square with SMRPG) seem to backup the classic western view of Toad as "the one & the only" while the big N themselves have been practically gung-ho with their own identity-crisis induced mushroom folk as early as Super Mario 64.

It is very noticable, to be honest I feel that third parties just put more care into that stuff then Nintendo, even supplementary materials like Super Mario Kun explicably treat Toad as his own character and it does seem to reflect Nintendo's visions, since it also had the original DK Arcade damsel and Pauline as seperate characters, which according to the official 1994 Mario character guide, was Nintendo of Japan's vision at the time:


I think the biggest problem is that where as third parties tend to have a pretty unified view on the Mario cast, the many divisions of Nintendo do not. Toad is probably the greatest example of this, not just for how much some games muddle the line between species and character, but also the infamous Captain Toad identity issue.

You got one producer saying they are not the same, only for Mario Maker, which was made by a different EAD division, to state the opposite and the only other time this got adressed was Smash Ultimate, where Toad's spirit can be evolved into Captain Toad, further nudging them towards being the same character instead. Same goes for the ''Toads aren't actually mushrooms'' claim from the same producer, which has also been contradicted by both earlier and later games and other materials or interviews.

Moral of the story: Nintendo can't make up their minds.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

It is very noticable, to be honest I feel that third parties just put more care into that stuff then Nintendo, even supplementary materials like Super Mario Kun explicably treat Toad as his own character and it does seem to reflect Nintendo's visions, since it also had the original DK Arcade damsel and Pauline as seperate characters, which according to the official 1994 Mario character guide, was Nintendo of Japan's vision at the time:
View attachment 195803

I think the biggest problem is that where as third parties tend to have a pretty unified view on the Mario cast, the many divisions of Nintendo do not. Toad is probably the greatest example of this, not just for how much some games muddle the line between species and character, but also the infamous Captain Toad identity issue.

You got one producer saying they are not the same, only for Mario Maker, which was made by a different EAD division, to state the opposite and the only other time this got adressed was Smash Ultimate, where Toad's spirit can be evolved into Captain Toad, further nudging them towards being the same character instead. Same goes for the ''Toads aren't actually mushrooms'' claim from the same producer, which has also been contradicted by both earlier and later games and other materials or interviews.

Moral of the story: Nintendo can't make up their minds.

I have one solution to this dillemma; mush all the various divisions into one, that'll help to sort out whoever actually wants to use other people's stuff.

Besides, Nintendo Software Technology basically doesn't do anything noteworthy beyond the Captain Toad ports these days, and that led to Koizumi formally inducting Pauline into the mainline Marioverse, so it'd be just as well. Just having one console to work with going onwards may help.

 

[Ed-boy]

I also forgot to mention Ubisoft as an odd example in the third-party viewpoint group with Mario + Rabbids. In that game, Toad & Toadette are a recurring duo, yet at the same time, every other Toad wore a red hat/blue vest combo (again, just like SM64). Weird.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I also forgot to mention Ubisoft as an odd example in the third-party viewpoint group with Mario + Rabbids. In that game, Toad & Toadette are a recurring duo, yet at the same time, every other Toad wore a red hat/blue vest combo (again, just like SM64). Weird.

Well, Toad and the Toad race are two different things. They had slightly different names in Japan too. It's a reverse of the Kamek situation(Kamek is the English-only name for Bowser's caretaker, while Magikoopas are called Kameks in Japan). So Toad is the name of the race and the character separately. You could compare it to any of the Pokemon in Smash. It's both the name for an established and fleshed out character and the specific race in general. So Toad(along with Toadette) are specific people, and the rest are just unnamed members of the Toad race.

I hope that explains it well.

 

[warelander]

I also forgot to mention Ubisoft as an odd example in the third-party viewpoint group with Mario + Rabbids. In that game, Toad & Toadette are a recurring duo, yet at the same time, every other Toad wore a red hat/blue vest combo (again, just like SM64). Weird.

That's something the games go back and forth on.

In some cases, like in Super Mario RPG or Mario + Rabbids you have THE Toad in an explicit role, while also having other red spots/blue vest Toads around, while others like 3D Land or all of the party and sports games generally only have one red spots/blue vest Toad and the other red Toads all have red vests.

That's not even going by how Galaxy 2 has red spots/blue vest Toad on the cover on Starship Mario, once again implying he's Captain since no such Toad is in the game and there is only one prominent red Toad who is also around Starship Mario. That's not even going into other cases during the GameCube era, where we had Toad with a red vest, like the basball games or Sunshine, the latter of which even goes out of it's way to identify him:

In short: it's a mess and the depction of the Toad species and how THE Toad is identified has varied at times.

 

[fogbadge]

i said a million times but ill say it again nintendo aint that bothered about whos the toad

or canon in general

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I mean, canon in Mario is fluid like the ocean. No point in trying to sort it out like for Zelda.

 

[fogbadge]

I mean, canon in Mario is fluid like the ocean. No point in trying to sort it out like for Zelda.

like i said they dont care

 

[pupNapoleon]

since it also had the original DK Arcade damsel and Pauline as seperate characters, which according to the official 1994 Mario character guide, was Nintendo of Japan's vision at the time:
View attachment 195803

The photo doesnt address my confusion to the following: Pauline is allegedly not the damsel in DK arcade?

 

[warelander]

The photo doesnt address my confusion to the following: Pauline is allegedly not the damsel in DK arcade?

There was a point where Nintendo of Japan seemed to go with the idea of them being seperate characters, since they were treated as such in the official 90s japanese character guide and other media like Super Mario Kun also went with it.

Whether this still applies today in japanese sources (including Odyssey) is something I'm not sure of, but it's entirely possible that they may have merged the characters since.

Nintendo does that a lot, there was a time where they were trying to nudge the current DK towards being merged with the Arcade incernation (his bios in the first two Smash games and Mario vs Donkey Kong being examples of that), though they have moved away from that since.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

At least the pre-DK '94 blonde Pauline did get called Lady, so that makes it easy to separate the two incarnations.

Anyway, to get back under Toad-related matters, Treasure Tracker does play a bit like some of those older games, whatwith the lack of jumping, and there is a DK arcade reference stage to boot (granted, DK itself did let you jump, albeit in a limited manner).

like i said they dont care

Eh, it's a bit more complicated than that. Besides not wanting to confuse new players with continuity (never mind making sense of the geography shifting constantly), they treat the characters as if they were actors in a play for the sake of adaptability, a mindset that's more explicitly shown in Super Mario Bros. 3 and the Paper Mario series (which feature stages with curtains). It's kinda like older cartoons like Looney Tunes in regards to not being concerned about past events (and briefly Tom & Jerry, since DK arcade had Mario and DK swap roles once).

Compare this to the Crash Bandicoot series post-Naughty Dog era, in which there is no reason at all for the increasing amount of inconsistencies and plot holes, and they clearly didn't care (the alternate continuity GBA games write themselves into a corner story-wise, N. Trance's appearance in Nitro Kart makes no sense under any account, the Radical entries barely even pretend to be part of the same series, etc).

So really, the MST3K mantra applies in this case.

 

[fogbadge]

At least the pre-DK '94 blonde Pauline did get called Lady, so that makes it easy to separate the two incarnations.

Anyway, to get back under Toad-related matters, Treasure Tracker does play a bit like some of those older games, whatwith the lack of jumping, and there is a DK arcade reference stage to boot (granted, DK itself did let you jump, albeit in a limited manner).



Eh, it's a bit more complicated than that. Besides not wanting to confuse new players with continuity (never mind making sense of the geography shifting constantly), they treat the characters as if they were actors in a play for the sake of adaptability, a mindset that's more explicitly shown in Super Mario Bros. 3 and the Paper Mario series (which feature stages with curtains). It's kinda like older cartoons like Looney Tunes in regards to not being concerned about past events (and briefly Tom & Jerry, since DK arcade had Mario and DK swap roles once).

Compare this to the Crash Bandicoot series post-Naughty Dog era, in which there is no reason at all for the increasing amount of inconsistencies and plot holes, and they clearly didn't care (the alternate continuity GBA games write themselves into a corner story-wise, N. Trance's appearance in Nitro Kart makes no sense under any account, the Radical entries barely even pretend to be part of the same series, etc).

So really, the MST3K mantra applies in this case.

no they just dont care

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Does continuity even matter anyway? Outside of the RPGs and maybe Koizumi's 3D Marios, nobody plays Mario for the story. Although it is fun to see what kind of nonsense plan Bowser comes up with next for New SMB.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Does continuity even matter anyway? Outside of the RPGs and maybe Koizumi's 3D Marios, nobody plays Mario for the story. Although it is fun to see what kind of nonsense plan Bowser comes up with next for New SMB.

I dont think continuity matters- but the characters are definitely in need of being defined. In fact, particularly WITHOUT story, having strong characterization is what makes players feel connected to gameplay.

The idea of characters being players in a stageplay is akin to Commedia Dell'arte, with hyper exaggerated stock characters playing a loose story to improvised freedom. This requires the characters to be immediately recognized by the audience. Not every moment involved can be a variable.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Does continuity even matter anyway? Outside of the RPGs and maybe Koizumi's 3D Marios, nobody plays Mario for the story. Although it is fun to see what kind of nonsense plan Bowser comes up with next for New SMB.

Miyamoto pretty much doesn't want a lot of story in the Mario series. Even to the point he wanted it cut from the Paper Mario games. Of course, that's just his opinion of how the series should be. The light story is great for some platformers, though. I actually like how he created the screenplay thing, since it fits the lack of continuity in a lot of stuff well while not compromising any useful character points brought up. As they clearly have direct continuity, but that's basically just another part of the same particular play(or if you will, a sequel to that play's story). You can even say the Mario Kart games do that with returning stages.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I dont think continuity matters- but the characters are definitely in need of being defined. In fact, particularly WITHOUT story, having strong characterization is what makes players feel connected to gameplay.

The idea of characters being players in a stageplay is akin to Commedia Dell'arte, with hyper exaggerated stock characters playing a loose story to improvised freedom. This requires the characters to be immediately recognized by the audience. Not every moment involved can be a variable.

Yeah, though I don't mind it, but at least Daisy could use more main roles, and Waluigi needs to be allowed to have a villain role that actually sticks for more than 5 minutes.

Thankfully and among a few other Mario regulars got plenty of definition in their spin-offs.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Yeah, though I don't mind it, but at least Daisy could use more main roles, and Waluigi needs to be allowed to have a villain role that actually sticks for more than 5 minutes.

Thankfully and among a few other Mario regulars got plenty of definition in their spin-offs.

I cant wait to see Waluigi in Warioware... eventually.
It's really the only way I think we would get him into Smash.

And i'm back to hoping for a captain toad 2 and a new Warioware (what we should have gotten instead of 1-2 switch).

But alas- does anyone have any numbers on Nintendo releasing DLC for a game, and how long the next in the series came out? I doubt we could count on Treasure Trackers 2 anytime soon.

I wish they just made the port a sequel (or at least full on DX- I would have likely rebought even with different branding).

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I cant wait to see Waluigi in Warioware... eventually.
It's really the only way I think we would get him into Smash.

And i'm back to hoping for a captain toad 2 and a new Warioware (what we should have gotten instead of 1-2 switch).

But alas- does anyone have any numbers on Nintendo releasing DLC for a game, and how long the next in the series came out? I doubt we could count on Treasure Trackers 2 anytime soon.

I wish they just made the port a sequel (or at least full on DX- I would have likely rebought even with different branding).

Everyone from Wario Ware hasn't been able to get anything beyond a bit part in Smash so far, so that'll take a while.

In any case, I'm glad that the TT port gave Nintendo Software Technology something to do, lord knows they need that to not get the boot these days...

 

[pupNapoleon]

Everyone from Wario Ware hasn't been able to get anything beyond a bit part in Smash so far, so that'll take a while.

In any case, I'm glad that the TT port gave Nintendo Software Technology something to do, lord knows they need that to not get the boot these days...

But Waluigi has everything he already did, except shouldn't be showcasing a series thats not Wario.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

But Waluigi has everything he already did, except shouldn't be showcasing a series thats not Wario.

Right, I think the only issue is whether anyone actually knows what to do with him besides just putting him in spin-offs.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Right, I think the only issue is whether anyone actually knows what to do with him besides just putting him in spin-offs.

Probably has something to do with him being created solely for spin-offs. I mean, it's what he is. He's the spin-off character. Even the few who had a similar situation have nowhere near the same reputation popularity(Baby Daisy, Baby Rosalina, Pink Gold Peach, who all debuted in Mario Kart no less). I mean you could say the other Metals are more liked due to Mario Party II's first appearance(Metal Luigi, Metal Peach, Metal Donkey Kong, Metal Yoshi), or even Metal Dr. Mario(from Dr. Mario 64), but Waluigi isn't just the only truly unique one to appear in tons of different games among the Spin-off Originals, he's the only one that's reasonably well-liked. There's some pointless haters, but most of it comes down to them not even making a legitimate attempt to understand why he's liked. If they just dismiss him as nothing but a meme(when his personality helped create the memes, instead), they're literally just trolls. They don't have a legitimate point. Now, some do like the character due to the memes he spawned, which is logical too. Cause they like content related to the character.

That said, I do wish regular Toad had a more distinct design so people wouldn't confuse him with the race instead. Besides that, I wish NSMB would use the main Toad and someone else instead of just shoehorning in two new nameless Toads(the Yellow and Blue ones). I get that Peach wasn't in due to having the dress too hard to animate(which is actually a pretty good reason, especially if DLC isn't easy to create for the game), but that's way better than some bad excuses of "she must be a damsel in distress", which she clearly doesn't have to be. I mean, they evolved all three of the main damsels, Peach, Pauline/Lady, and Daisy into way more interesting characters than that. Rosalina is the only one that didn't start as a damsel(coincidentally, she's not a princess either. Though neither is Pauline/Lady, heh).

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

That said, I do wish regular Toad had a more distinct design so people wouldn't confuse him with the race instead. Besides that, I wish NSMB would use the main Toad and someone else instead of just shoehorning in two new nameless Toads(the Yellow and Blue ones). I get that Peach wasn't in due to having the dress too hard to animate(which is actually a pretty good reason, especially if DLC isn't easy to create for the game), but that's way better than some bad excuses of "she must be a damsel in distress", which she clearly doesn't have to be. I mean, they evolved all three of the main damsels, Peach, Pauline/Lady, and Daisy into way more interesting characters than that. Rosalina is the only one that didn't start as a damsel(coincidentally, she's not a princess either. Though neither is Pauline/Lady, heh).

Fun thing is, the first thing Koizumi did when he got to do a mainline Mario on the Wii U is make Peach playable for a modern 3D platformer. The man doesn't hesitate to make risks, since he's capable of making successful Mario titles.

 

[Arcadenik]

That said, I do wish regular Toad had a more distinct design so people wouldn't confuse him with the race instead. Besides that, I wish NSMB would use the main Toad and someone else instead of just shoehorning in two new nameless Toads(the Yellow and Blue ones). I get that Peach wasn't in due to having the dress too hard to animate(which is actually a pretty good reason, especially if DLC isn't easy to create for the game), but that's way better than some bad excuses of "she must be a damsel in distress", which she clearly doesn't have to be. I mean, they evolved all three of the main damsels, Peach, Pauline/Lady, and Daisy into way more interesting characters than that. Rosalina is the only one that didn't start as a damsel(coincidentally, she's not a princess either. Though neither is Pauline/Lady, heh).

KInda makes me wish Nintendo made New Super Mario Bros. 3 or New Super Mario Bros. Switch instead of New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe.

I know Nintendo figured out how to make Peach work in a new 2D Mario game. Super Mario Run and Peachette are proof of that in my opinion. They just didn’t want to change the damsel storyline or make a new 2D Mario game so they had Toadette transform into Peachette in a Switch port of a Wii U game.

If someone has to be a kidnapping victim for the damsel storyline, then bring back the Mushroom Kings from Super Mario Bros. 3 or the Sprixie Princesses from Super Mario 3D World or both. Unlike Toadette, Peach could be the permanent Peachette. She’s still Peachette even when she’s small (retains the floating ability when she’s small).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

KInda makes me wish Nintendo made New Super Mario Bros. 3 or New Super Mario Bros. Switch instead of New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe.

I know Nintendo figured out how to make Peach work in a new 2D Mario game. Super Mario Run and Peachette are proof of that in my opinion. They just didn’t want to change the damsel storyline or make a new 2D Mario game so they had Toadette transform into Peachette in a Switch port of a Wii U game.

If someone has to be a kidnapping victim for the damsel storyline, then bring back the Mushroom Kings from Super Mario Bros. 3 or the Sprixie Princesses from Super Mario 3D World or both. Unlike Toadette, Peach could be the permanent Peachette. She’s still Peachette even when she’s small (retains the floating ability when she’s small).

Hell, why can't they they use Pauline or something? She seriously don't have an active role in the action, so at least it makes some sense. Daisy should definitely be playable too, like in Super Mario Run. They could even license to throw in Rabbid Peach for cripes' sake. There's a ton of potential characters. Or even better, have a ton of playable characters(including Wario and Waluigi). Just have a list of potential characters who can be captured, and you can just switch 'em out based upon who you're playing as.

 

[Arcadenik]

I would like a new 2D Mario game with a map system similar to Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins. It was nice to be able to visit all worlds in any order and not have to beat all levels in one world just to see the next world. Imagine Mushroom Kingdom with that map system! Maybe New Super Mario Bros. 3 could do that.