Toad/Captain Toad for Smash, Toad Brigade Assemble!

Chinderblock

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I think what would help is if you reposted the moveset but then added a note of where the move came from in regards to Toad.

Like the hadoukens seem quite random for Toad.
Are you suggesting, for example, they are blasts of mushroom spores shaped like Hadoukens or the Fire Flower is at play or is it a somewhat obscure reference to say...Paper Mario's "The Master" who utilises ki. I think a bit more info about the less obvious choices would help.
Actually, the Hadoukens aren't nearly as random. They're not good choices, imo, but Kart Fighter was a bootleg fighting game that was pretty much Street Fighter II with the Mario cast. We even had "Green Mario" for the Ken variant. A lot of names were their Japanese names as well. In fact, the first time Luigi had a missile-like move was this game, though I highly doubt it was of inspiration for Sakurai. Spin-offs are one things, but bootlegs?
 

kaithehedgefox

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kaithehedgefox said:
Toad's moveset isn't too hard to assemble. Since he would most likely be a semi-clone of Mario, or Dr. Mario. Most or some of his moveset would be cloned from Mario, and/or Dr. Mario.

Here's my idea for Toad's distinct moves:

Down Aerial: Mario's down aerial from Melee.

Dash Attack: Does a dash attack similar to Beck's Acxelerate.

Forward Smash: Toad charges up a hadouken-like energy projectile by performing a series of rapid arm movements, then he fires it with his cupped hands.

Up Smash: Toad fires a beam of energy from his index finger upwards.

Down Smash: Toad fires a beam of energy from his index finger downwards.

Standard Special: Energy Ball: Same as Mario's fireball, only with ki/chakra/energy instead of fire.

Side Special: Ki Blasts: Nearly identical to Goku's ki blasts in Super Smash Flash 2, except that it always flies straight regardless of Toad being in midair or not.

Down Special: Energy Absorption: Similar to Ness and Lucas's PSI Magnet. Toad raises his hand forward to absorb certain projectiles.

Final Smash: Super Toad: Nearly Identical to Sonic's final smash from Smash 4.

Almost the rest of Toad's moveset would be identical to Mario's. But if Toad gets officially released as a DLC for Smash Ultimate (probably after the first 5), his official moveset would be completely different from my concept above.
I think what would help is if you reposted the moveset but then added a note of where the move came from in regards to Toad.

Like the hadoukens seem quite random for Toad.
Are you suggesting, for example, they are blasts of mushroom spores shaped like Hadoukens or the Fire Flower is at play or is it a somewhat obscure reference to say...Paper Mario's "The Master" who utilises ki. I think a bit more info about the less obvious choices would help.
Actually, the Hadoukens aren't nearly as random. They're not good choices, imo, but Kart Fighter was a bootleg fighting game that was pretty much Street Fighter II with the Mario cast. We even had "Green Mario" for the Ken variant. A lot of names were their Japanese names as well. In fact, the first time Luigi had a missile-like move was this game, though I highly doubt it was of inspiration for Sakurai. Spin-offs are one things, but bootlegs?
Actually, Toad's Hadouken-like attack (forward smash) was invented by myself. It's more like Megaman's Mega Buster, Samus's Power Beam, and Trunk's Burning Attack. Toad is supossed to fire a sphere-shaped energy blast from his cupped hands nearly identical to Ryu's Hadouken, but he charges it up more like Trunk's Burning Attack. Where he performs a series of rapid arm movements instead of cupping his hands.

Toad's finger beam up and down smash attacks are similar to Yusuke's spirit gun. Where he fires a beam of energy from his finger. The up and down Smash attacks were also invented by myself.

Toad's neutral special is based on Mario's fireball, but with energy instead of fire.

Toad's side special is based on Goku's side special (ki blasts) from Super Smash Flash 2.
 

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Actually, Toad's Hadouken-like attack (forward smash) was invented by myself. It's more like Megaman's Mega Buster, Samus's Power Beam, and Trunk's Burning Attack. Toad is supossed to fire a sphere-shaped energy blast from his cupped hands nearly identical to Ryu's Hadouken, but he charges it up more like Trunk's Burning Attack. Where he performs a series of rapid arm movements instead of cupping his hands.

Toad's finger beam up and down smash attacks are similar to Yusuke's spirit gun. Where he fires a beam of energy from his finger. The up and down Smash attacks were also invented by myself.

Toad's neutral special is based on Mario's fireball, but with energy instead of fire.

Toad's side special is based on Goku's side special (ki blasts) from Super Smash Flash 2.
here's a question, why?
 

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Actually, Toad's Hadouken-like attack (forward smash) was invented by myself. It's more like Megaman's Mega Buster, Samus's Power Beam, and Trunk's Burning Attack. Toad is supossed to fire a sphere-shaped energy blast from his cupped hands nearly identical to Ryu's Hadouken, but he charges it up more like Trunk's Burning Attack. Where he performs a series of rapid arm movements instead of cupping his hands.

Toad's finger beam up and down smash attacks are similar to Yusuke's spirit gun. Where he fires a beam of energy from his finger. The up and down Smash attacks were also invented by myself.

Toad's neutral special is based on Mario's fireball, but with energy instead of fire.

Toad's side special is based on Goku's side special (ki blasts) from Super Smash Flash 2.
Kind of an odd mishmash, but him not having a lot of well-known/specific moves does make you want to just throw in something fun. My question is how the rest of his moveset works. How does it flow together to some degree? Is he more of an energy attack, kind of akin to what Shadow is in Sonic Battle? His abilities do sound like you combined some DBZ moves(and a Hadouken), so kind of like Cell, heh.

I at one point made a thing called "Nintendo Fighter". I still got a lot of work to fix up on it, but it did have a nice list of 22 characters with literally two full clones(being Proto Man and Luigi, respectively. It was made before I played a lot of series, so it's clearly biased and needs a rehaul for the first roster at least. It's mainly the NES/SNES era with a single Playstation guest, respectively. Peach was pretty much a variation on Ryu, which was mostly thanks to a combination of her recently released M.U.G.E.N. version and Kart Fighter. Yes, it was that long ago).
 

kaithehedgefox

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Kind of an odd mishmash, but him not having a lot of well-known/specific moves does make you want to just throw in something fun. My question is how the rest of his moveset works. How does it flow together to some degree? Is he more of an energy attack, kind of akin to what Shadow is in Sonic Battle? His abilities do sound like you combined some DBZ moves(and a Hadouken), so kind of like Cell, heh.

I at one point made a thing called "Nintendo Fighter". I still got a lot of work to fix up on it, but it did have a nice list of 22 characters with literally two full clones(being Proto Man and Luigi, respectively. It was made before I played a lot of series, so it's clearly biased and needs a rehaul for the first roster at least. It's mainly the NES/SNES era with a single Playstation guest, respectively. Peach was pretty much a variation on Ryu, which was mostly thanks to a combination of her recently released M.U.G.E.N. version and Kart Fighter. Yes, it was that long ago).
Correct, my distinct moves for Toad are based on moves from Dragonball. I couldn't think of any other way to declone him from Mario, so I just decided to give him some energy blast moves.

And plus I've added some more distinct moves for Toad:

Neutral Attack: High Speed Rush: Toad performs a punch, a kick, and then a downward strike with his hand.

Side Tilt: Heavy Finish: performs a powerful kick.

Forward Aerial: Flying Kick: performs a barrage of rapid kicks in the midair.

Down Aerial: Double Axe Handle: Performs a downwards slam with both hands.
 

fogbadge

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Correct, my distinct moves for Toad are based on moves from Dragonball. I couldn't think of any other way to declone him from Mario, so I just decided to give him some energy blast moves.

And plus I've added some more distinct moves for Toad:

Neutral Attack: High Speed Rush: Toad performs a punch, a kick, and then a downward strike with his hand.

Side Tilt: Heavy Finish: performs a powerful kick.

Forward Aerial: Flying Kick: performs a barrage of rapid kicks in the midair.

Down Aerial: Double Axe Handle: Performs a downwards slam with both hands.
ok but why give him dbz moves?
 

kaithehedgefox

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ok but why give him dbz moves?
That's because the moves that I've mentioned seem to be a great way to declone Toad from Mario.

I've also added another distinct move:

Grabs and Throws: Telekinesis: Toad uses his hand via telekinesis to pick up his oppenent, then he throws them.
 

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Does Toad really need ***pulls to have a distinct moveset from Mario? This is like saying Impa should pick her nose to have a different moveset from Link.

I think you're only doing this because you think statements Sakurai's said before aren't enough to deconfirm Goku.
 
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kaithehedgefox

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Does Toad really need ***pulls to have a distinct moveset from Mario? This is like saying Impa should pick her nose to have a different moveset from Link.



I think you're only doing this because you think statements Sakurai's said before aren't enough to deconfirm Goku.
No, not really. As aforementioned, I already know that Goku's already been deconfirmed. But to get back on topic. I just wanted to create something unique and distinct for Toad. It has nothing to do with Goku's deconfirmation.

So here's my moveset for him so far.
Neutral Attack: High Speed Rush: Toad performs a punch, a kick, and then a downward strike with his hand.

Side Tilt: Heavy Finish: performs a powerful kick.

Forward Aerial: Flying Kick: performs a barrage of rapid kicks in the midair.

Down Aerial: Double Axe Handle: Performs a downwards slam with both hands.

Dash Attack: Does a dash attack similar to Beck's Acxelerate.

Forward Smash: Toad charges up a hadouken-like energy projectile by performing a series of rapid arm movements, then he fires it with his cupped hands.

Up Smash: Toad fires a beam of energy from his index finger upwards.

Down Smash: Toad fires a beam of energy from his index finger downwards.

Grabs and Throws: Telekinesis: Toad uses his hand via telekinesis to pick up his oppenent, then he throws them.

Standard Special: Energy Ball: Same as Mario's fireball, only with ki/chakra/energy instead of fire.

Side Special: Ki Blasts: Nearly identical to Goku's ki blasts in Super Smash Flash 2, except that it always flies straight regardless of Toad being in midair or not.

Down Special: Energy Absorption: Similar to Ness and Lucas's PSI Magnet. Toad raises his hand forward to absorb certain projectiles.

Final Smash: Super Toad: Nearly Identical to Sonic's final smash from Smash 4.

Almost the rest of Toad's moveset would be identical to Mario's.
 
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When it came for a moveset for Toad, I always thought taking inspirations from Captain Toad and Wario's Woods would work well enough. Give him bomb attacks to represent Wario's Woods, Pickax from Captain Toad, Turnips as well, which even relate to SMB2, his first playable debut. That's what I did for the moveset I put together for him.
 
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This topic right now ^

I'm down with the punch and kick combos and to a certain extent I could stretch to him absorbing projectiles, due to years of doing that for Peach in Smash Bros itself, but ki/chakra/energy attacks and a super saiyan form is a little too far removed from both Toad himself, and Super Mario the series as a whole.

Besides which, we have a ki style user already; :ultlucario: and to a lesser extent; :ultryu::ultken:. Lucario even has a super form in Mega Lucario, can perform after image attacks and shoots a giant Kamehameha style blast in his Final Smash.

Personally, I've been playing with the idea of Toad having a few attacks based around the Double Cherry item, which clones him briefly. It's a canon thing Toad(and Captain Toad and Toadette) have used in recent games and simultaneously represents those who insist Toad is just one of many whilst keeping him as his own fighter.
That's the most similar to a Dragonball/Naruto move I can imagine him having honestly.

Sorry to be dismissive of the idea, but bar looking a little like Kid Krillin in cosplay, Toad doesn't really have a logical reason to be firing life force out of his palms or having super forms.
 

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That's because the moves that I've mentioned seem to be a great way to declone Toad from Mario.

I've also added another distinct move:

Grabs and Throws: Telekinesis: Toad uses his hand via telekinesis to pick up his oppenent, then he throws them.
if you want to declone him from mario (even though hes not in the game yet) i would recommend looking up a list of the various power ups toad has used through the games and construct a moveset from them be it fully unique or a semi clone trust us you dont have to make stuff up to differentiate toad
 
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So I've been pretty slow on the uptake with the Captain Toad Treasure Tracker DLC since I wanted to experience it with the girlfriend in two player. Finally gave up and played through the special levels solo.

I think I may actually adore the final level of this DLC the most. Chaos in the Grand Labyrinth is bizarrely addictive. I found a lot of the bonus Mummy Me levels extremely stressful but this one's weirdly enjoyable. Although I'll admit I've yet to attempt to tackle Mummy Me Maze forever.

I have yet to keep Hint Toad, Bank Toad and Yellow Toad all alive to the end of the mission but I'm working on getting it. Also throughly enjoying the Boo spotting levels. Weirdly relaxing to just erase Boos, Peepas and Mudtroopers. Good stuff!

What was your favourite level Toad Brigade?
 

fogbadge

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So I've been pretty slow on the uptake with the Captain Toad Treasure Tracker DLC since I wanted to experience it with the girlfriend in two player. Finally gave up and played through the special levels solo.

I think I may actually adore the final level of this DLC the most. Chaos in the Grand Labyrinth is bizarrely addictive. I found a lot of the bonus Mummy Me levels extremely stressful but this one's weirdly enjoyable. Although I'll admit I've yet to attempt to tackle Mummy Me Maze forever.

I have yet to keep Hint Toad, Bank Toad and Yellow Toad all alive to the end of the mission but I'm working on getting it. Also throughly enjoying the Boo spotting levels. Weirdly relaxing to just erase Boos, Peepas and Mudtroopers. Good stuff!

What was your favourite level Toad Brigade?
either goomba galleon or the one with the rising cocoa, dont know why just love em
 

fogbadge

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i suppose it makes sense that super bell hill would be left over from the last game, and i agree with you there that cake stage looks awesome

great news brigade toad and toadette confirmed for mario maker multiplayer mode and a large role in the story mode

have to say loving racoon toad and toadette
 
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great news brigade toad and toadette confirmed for mario maker multiplayer mode and a large role in the story mode

have to say loving racoon toad and toadette
It's brilliant to see the Toads being playable in the different sprite forms of the older titles as well!

Even though Toad is once again spotted blue once more (Blue Toad?), it's very nice to see both him and Toadette being playable once again. Also looks like Toad and Toadette are titled as the Taskmaster and Chief characters respectively in the story mode as well!
 

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This entire direct was gold, but the existence of a story mode has me shook. Like, I entertained the thought a couple weeks ago, but I didn't think they'd actually add a story mode! This game has more bells & whistles than it has any reason to.

Not exactly fond of the ongoing identity crisis for Toad himself (blue ones' called Toad, but the red cap+blue vest boi is in a cutscene?:dizzy:), but what can you do? Still glad to see the Shroom duo in another major role, & in all game styles no less!
 
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Well I must admit I was momentarily concerned when Maker had only TWO controllers linking labelled Mario and Luigi, but Nintendo really came through with the four player action.

Also seeing how Blue Toad was picked I guess Nintendo were listening to the outrage about Blue Toad seemingly initially missing from New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe and have finalised him and Toadette as player 3 and 4 of the Mario platformers.

One small detail I found nifty in the Story Mode is when all the Toads are lined up...Yellow is asleep again! This seems to be yellow's default trait!
 
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great news brigade toad and toadette confirmed for mario maker multiplayer mode and a large role in the story mode

have to say loving racoon toad and toadette
Toad finally playable in the Super Mario Bros. 3 mode makes up for Toad not being playable in the actual Super Mario Bros. 3.

Now if they will add Peach (and maybe Daisy) in Super Mario Maker 3 along with the Super Mario Bros. 2 mode...
 
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You select the 3D World style from a menu that says "Extra Game Styles". You may not even have to wait that long.
That’s true. You never know.

I noticed that the Super Mario 3D World mode is much different from the other four modes. Too different that the course you already made in other modes will be reset and erase all of the parts that have been placed.

So... maybe the Super Mario Bros. 2 mode will do the same. Forcing you to start from scratch with new parts like grass and vegetables and whales and flying carpets and Shy Guys and Birdos. Oh, and you would not be able to stomp enemies... instead you would have to jump on them and pick them up.
 
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if you want to declone him from mario (even though hes not in the game yet) i would recommend looking up a list of the various power ups toad has used through the games and construct a moveset from them be it fully unique or a semi clone trust us you dont have to make stuff up to differentiate toad
I've also made a moveset for Waluigi to declone him from Luigi to make him a semi-clone.

You can see it here.
 
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Toad finally playable in the Super Mario Bros. 3 mode makes up for Toad not being playable in the actual Super Mario Bros. 3.

Now if they will add Peach (and maybe Daisy) in Super Mario Maker 3 along with the Super Mario Bros. 2 mode...
Additionally, seeing sprites for Toad (and likewise Toadette) in the SMW format fills the gap where this title was the only mainstream series game where Toad(s) were exempt from completely. It's brilliant to see the Toads in these sprites as well as a reimagining as to how they'd look both playable in the original SMB and SMB3 as well as an overall SMW design!


They're so happy!
 
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I've also made a moveset for Waluigi to declone him from Luigi to make him a semi-clone.

You can see it here.
slight nitpick, but theyre not in the games as clones to be de-cloned so youre making them as semi clones and you still havent told us why you feel the need to de-clone them when theyre not clones yet

Additionally, seeing sprites for Toad (and likewise Toadette) in the SMW format fills the gap where this title was the only mainstream series game where Toad(s) were exempt from completely. It's brilliant to see the Toads in these sprites as well as a reimagining as to how they'd look both playable in the original SMB and SMB3 as well as an overall SMW design!


They're so happy!
i think ive found my new favourite video game artwork
 
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if you want to declone him from mario (even though hes not in the game yet) i would recommend looking up a list of the various power ups toad has used through the games and construct a moveset from them be it fully unique or a semi clone trust us you dont have to make stuff up to differentiate toad
ok but why give him dbz moves?
The reason why I gave Toad the generic moves from Dragon Ball (AKA Goku's series), in adddition to some of my own moves that I invented myself is because with my moveset, he is now a pseudo-clone of Mario, or dr. Mario. It's also a moveset that makes him a unique or highly distinct playable character from both Mario and Luigi.

Neutral Attack: High Speed Rush: Toad performs a punch, kick and then a flurry of alternating rapid punches.

Side Tilt: Heavy Finish: performs a powerful kick.

Forward Aerial: Flying Kick: performs a barrage of rapid kicks in the midair.

Down Aerial: Double Axe Handle: Performs a downwards slam with both hands.

Dash Attack: Does a dash attack similar to Beck's Acxelerate.

Forward Smash: Toad charges up a hadouken-like energy projectile by performing a series of rapid arm movements, then he fires it with his cupped hands.

Up Smash: Toad fires a beam of energy from his index finger upwards.

Down Smash: Toad fires a beam of energy from his index finger downwards.

Grabs and Throws: Telekinesis: Toad uses his hand via telekinesis to pick up his oppenent, then he throws them.

Standard Special: Energy Ball: Same as Mario's fireball, only with ki/chakra/energy instead of fire.

Side Special: Ki Blasts: Nearly identical to Goku's ki blasts in Super Smash Flash 2, except that it always flies straight regardless of Toad being in midair or not.

Down Special: Energy Absorption: Similar to Ness and Lucas's PSI Magnet. Toad raises his hand forward to absorb certain projectiles.

Final Smash: Super Toad: Nearly Identical to Sonic's final smash from Smash 4.

Almost the rest of Toad's moveset would be identical to Mario's.
As you see, Toad's only similar moves are his up special, neutral special, up tilt, down tilt, neutral aerial, up aerial, and back aerial. The rest of his moveset is unique.
 
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The reason why I gave Toad the generic moves from Dragon Ball (AKA Goku's series), in adddition to some of my own moves that I invented myself is because with my moveset, he is now a pseudo-clone of Mario, or dr. Mario. It's also a moveset that makes him a unique or highly distinct playable character from both Mario and Luigi.



As you see, Toad's only similar moves are his up special, neutral special, up tilt, down tilt, neutral aerial, up aerial, and back aerial. The rest of his moveset is unique.
ok but thats not what i asked, i asked why you felt the need to make him distinct from mario as if he already in the game as a mario clone
 
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Personally, I've been playing with the idea of Toad having a few attacks based around the Double Cherry item, which clones him briefly.
I was thinking... what if Toad becomes two for some smash moves and throws? I have a couple ideas.

Down Smash - Toad becomes two and they headbutt in opposite directions.

Pummel - Toad becomes two and one of them holds the opponent while the other punches the opponent.

It doesn’t have to be a special move.
 
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Hi guys, how was that Mario Maker 2 Direct for y--
>talk about Toad being like Goku to be included
I just hope Electrichu doesn't post in here.

Additionally, seeing sprites for Toad (and likewise Toadette) in the SMW format fills the gap where this title was the only mainstream series game where Toad(s) were exempt from completely. It's brilliant to see the Toads in these sprites as well as a reimagining as to how they'd look both playable in the original SMB and SMB3 as well as an overall SMW design!


They're so happy!
Yeah, that was my favorite part. It's so refreshing to see brand-new SMB, SMB3 and SMW graphics for playable characters after the fact. Funny thing is, Toad had been playable in the rom hack SMB3 Mix before this happened, too.
 

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Don't snipe at other members. In addition, the "hey what's going on here -insert image of site on fire posts-" are spammy and create unnecessary drama. Cut it out. Show respect to other ideas, even if you don't like them. Mocking them instead of explaining their flaws is very disrespectful. There's no reason to do so.

For the record, I get the gist of what the issue is that people are bringing up, but it's being explained too vaguely to make it clear enough. Right now, Toad is not playable. There's no reason to believe he's be based off of Mario's gameplay. So the idea of him being a "clone" doesn't make much sense. Thus, there's no reason to try and de-clone him. The moveset, which is actually pretty imaginative, is basically just being unique. So far, I'm not reading why it being unique is a bad thing. IMO, I think it barely resembling Toad is the issue, but I couldn't see a single post that is making that clear(maybe that's not anyone's argument to begin with? But if is, it's not being made clear in any way. Think of how easy it it for another user to understand the points you're making. Try to explain them thoroughly without dismissing their fun ideas as well. I am seeing a lot more dismissal than properly explaining the flaw too. How is that going to convince another user to go for a different idea? It won't.)
 
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Sorry...:teeth: Never bringing him up again.

Anyway, yeah I'm not sure why Toad would need something so radical like that for a moveset when there's enough stuff from the games to work with, not just Captain Toad, but also his other appearances, like SMB2 and Wario's Woods. No need to pull so many liberties like :ultwario: or :ultfalcon: unless there was no other choice.

It's sort of like say, if you wanted to include Jack Frost, but have him fight like Sub-Zero from Mortal Kombat. It can work, but it's not particularly faithful to the source material.
 
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Chinderblock

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Captain Toad and the main Toad are very different characters, so it's best to keep 'em separated. I could see Cap as a costume reference, maybe, but they have a ton of different abilities at this point. Other than the same bodyshape, they have nearly as similar moves as blue pig Ganon and Ganondorf(that is, almost nothing at all).

Wario was more of a representation of his personality than just moves from a few games, to be fair. He was always like this. Most just didn't realize it because it's his Japanese personality. WarioWare just... uses that personality far better.
 
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Captain Toad and the main Toad are very different characters, so it's best to keep 'em separated. I could see Cap as a costume reference, maybe, but they have a ton of different abilities at this point. Other than the same bodyshape, they have nearly as similar moves as blue pig Ganon and Ganondorf(that is, almost nothing at all).

Wario was more of a representation of his personality than just moves from a few games, to be fair. He was always like this. Most just didn't realize it because it's his Japanese personality. WarioWare just... uses that personality far better.
Yeah, that is fair. Especially since Super Mario-Kun was never localized until France got it a few years ago.
 
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Captain Toad and the main Toad are very different characters, so it's best to keep 'em separated. I could see Cap as a costume reference, maybe, but they have a ton of different abilities at this point. Other than the same bodyshape, they have nearly as similar moves as blue pig Ganon and Ganondorf(that is, almost nothing at all).
Nintendo needs to make a canon game that shows Toad and Captain Toad as two separate people instead of making it like a Superman/Clark Kent situation like they have done over the years.
 
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Nintendo needs to make a canon game that shows Toad and Captain Toad as two separate people instead of making it like a Superman/Clark Kent situation like they have done over the years.
I know it wasn't intentional, but that just gave me a hilarious mental image of Toad seeing Wingo go on a rampage, get in a phone booth while no one is staring, and coming out as Captain Toad.

Although knowing them, they'd probably make it an interdimensional crossover ala Paper Jam to muddle things further.
 
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Now to answer you're question, the reason why I made Toad distinct from Mario is because Mario already has a clone Dr Mario, although he's not an echo. And I don't want Toad to be an echo.
Toad can't be an echo anyway due to his proportions.
 

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Now to answer you're question, the reason why I made Toad distinct from Mario is because Mario already has a clone Dr Mario, although he's not an echo. And I don't want Toad to be an echo.
That's not how Echoes work. But more importantly, why would Toad be a clone to Mario anyway? I mean, maybe the throws might work better that way if no easy ideas come up. You could see a few similar enough attributes, like run speed, but even they have different jump heights. Toad does play like Mario in a lot of games.

Also, are you under the impression that Echo just means "save exact moveset" or something?
 
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