Toad/Captain Toad for Smash, Toad Brigade Assemble!

[osby]

Now to answer you're question, the reason why I made Toad distinct from Mario is because Mario already has a clone Dr Mario, although he's not an echo. And I don't want Toad to be an echo.

Toad isn't related to Mario, you don't need to go out of your way to mention he's distinct from Mario, all unique fighters are distinct from Mario.

Also this still doesn't explain why you are so hell-bent on giving Toad unrelated Dragon Ball moves.

 

[fogbadge]

Captain Toad and the main Toad are very different characters, so it's best to keep 'em separated. I could see Cap as a costume reference, maybe, but they have a ton of different abilities at this point. Other than the same bodyshape, they have nearly as similar moves as blue pig Ganon and Ganondorf(that is, almost nothing at all).

would it be any worse than than having pp have moves from other pp

Nintendo needs to make a canon game that shows Toad and Captain Toad as two separate people instead of making it like a Superman/Clark Kent situation like they have done over the years.

no come on you know nintendo dont care about canon

Now to answer you're question, the reason why I made Toad distinct from Mario is because Mario already has a clone Dr Mario, although he's not an echo. And I don't want Toad to be an echo.

but thats what we dont understand, we get that you want to make him different from mario, what we dont get is why you feel the need to do this as if he was already clone or guaranteed to be a clone when we have no idea how he might play

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

would it be any worse than than having pp have moves from other pp

Yes. Because PP is more of a species and is designed to reference other related species. Toad is way more established than that and we have two entirely different characters with extremely distinct abilities. Mishmashing them is kind of silly at that point. That worked fine with Link, since he's a legacy character and every Link has the same basic abilities. Which can't be said of Toad and Captain Toad. Hell, Wario in both his forms has more similarities, as he's always been a gross-out character to begin with. That's why you could mishmash him fine.

no come on you know nintendo dont care about canon

Proven entirely wrong by the Zelda series alone. Also, Nintendo cares. Miyamoto is the one who doesn't care about Mario canon specifically. He doesn't believe it should have some kind of real storytelling, which is part of why. He thinks Zelda should be all about story as well. Nowhere is there a remote suggestion he doesn't care about canon stuff entirely. Honestly, this is a very flawed and silly view of Nintendo.

 

[fogbadge]

Yes. Because PP is more of a species and is designed to reference other related species. Toad is way more established than that and we have two entirely different characters with extremely distinct abilities. Mishmashing them is kind of silly at that point. That worked fine with Link, since he's a legacy character and every Link has the same basic abilities. Which can't be said of Toad and Captain Toad. Hell, Wario in both his forms has more similarities, as he's always been a gross-out character to begin with. That's why you could mishmash him fine.


Proven entirely wrong by the Zelda series alone. Also, Nintendo cares. Miyamoto is the one who doesn't care about Mario canon specifically. He doesn't believe it should have some kind of real storytelling, which is part of why. He thinks Zelda should be all about story as well. Nowhere is there a remote suggestion he doesn't care about canon stuff entirely. Honestly, this is a very flawed and silly view of Nintendo.

alright pp wasnt the best example should of said ness having paula's moves and lucas having kumatora's

as for the second point i was joking

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

alright pp wasnt the best example should of said ness having paula's moves and lucas having kumatora's

as for the second point i was joking

Well, to be fair, Ness and Lucas were directly trying to represent the gameplay of the Mother series. We're talking about mishmashing characters who are solely related by species, but entirely different genres too.

Why would Toad need to represent a game in a different genre that's very separated from his abilities. Like, as I said, a costume referencing Captain Toad makes some sense, but this is more like the Detective Pikachu case. A completely different character who can't really do the same things as Pikachu. Though for the record, I think they made the right decision with that too, as it'd be vastly OOC.

And fair enough on the joke. To be fair, though, on that part, you seem like you've been pushing the "Nintendo doesn't care about canon" thing for a while. I probably missed the memo you were joking. Sorry about that.

 

[fogbadge]

Well, to be fair, Ness and Lucas were directly trying to represent the gameplay of the Mother series. We're talking about mishmashing characters who are solely related by species, but entirely different genres too.

Why would Toad need to represent a game in a different genre that's very separated from his abilities. Like, as I said, a costume referencing Captain Toad makes some sense, but this is more like the Detective Pikachu case. A completely different character who can't really do the same things as Pikachu. Though for the record, I think they made the right decision with that too, as it'd be vastly OOC.

And fair enough on the joke. To be fair, though, on that part, you seem like you've been pushing the "Nintendo doesn't care about canon" thing for a while. I probably missed the memo you were joking. Sorry about that.

well yes i suppose that does make sense even though there are some things they share in treasure tracker and 3d world they there are plenty things unqiue to each

and if theyre kept separate in smash then they can both be fully fledged characters (i can dream)

i suppose i have said it a number of times

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I'm pretty sure that when it comes to Mario canon, the general mindset is "don't think about it too much".

Spoiler

Also, it's best to use when joking or otherwise being facetious, otherwise it's hard to tell intent through text.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

well yes i suppose that does make sense even though there are some things they share in treasure tracker and 3d world they there are plenty things unqiue to each

and if theyre kept separate in smash then they can both be fully fledged characters (i can dream)

i suppose i have said it a number of times

That sounds more fun that way, imo. I mean, I could see a few similar moves, being they literally have the same bodyshape, etc.

 

[Arcadenik]

I know it wasn't intentional, but that just gave me a hilarious mental image of Toad seeing Wingo go on a rampage, get in a phone booth while no one is staring, and coming out as Captain Toad.

This is it. This should be Toad/Captain Toad’s entrance.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

What, Toad coming through a pipe isn't enough for you guys?

 

[Arcadenik]

What, Toad coming through a pipe isn't enough for you guys?

Nope. Needs to make it explicitly clear they are the same person.

 

[fogbadge]

Nope. Needs to make it explicitly clear they are the same person.

how bout he changes in a starshroom?

 

[YoshiandToad]

For the record, I get the gist of what the issue is that people are bringing up, but it's being explained too vaguely to make it clear enough. Right now, Toad is not playable. There's no reason to believe he's be based off of Mario's gameplay. So the idea of him being a "clone" doesn't make much sense. Thus, there's no reason to try and de-clone him. The moveset, which is actually pretty imaginative, is basically just being unique. So far, I'm not reading why it being unique is a bad thing. IMO, I think it barely resembling Toad is the issue, but I couldn't see a single post that is making that clear(maybe that's not anyone's argument to begin with? But if is, it's not being made clear in any way. Think of how easy it it for another user to understand the points you're making. Try to explain them thoroughly without dismissing their fun ideas as well. I am seeing a lot more dismissal than properly explaining the flaw too. How is that going to convince another user to go for a different idea? It won't.)

I think for my part at least, the issue isn't the uniqueness, but it's that it's seemingly just a work around to get anime series moves into Smash on a character that doesn't really relate to it.
Same reason I'm not keen on the suggestion of Waluigi bringing forth a stand. Lucario is there for your almost Dragonball abilities, and Joker kind of has a stand anyway, and those moves suit the characters far better than Toad or Waluigi. Although if you must give Waluigi a stand at all, I'd suggest rather than punching it serves a flurry of tennis balls.

Or at the very least if you're going to give Toad ki attacks...please explain why!
For example Fox's specials are based off his Arwing's abilities, or Falcon is based (very, VERY) loosely around the F-Zero racing concept. I just don't know what energy blasts say about Toad as a character!

I'm all up for distinct movesets but I feel they need to say something about the character or reference something about the characters history at least.

--------------------------

Ironically the only time I think the only Mario game that really relates to other games in any canonical sense is actually Captain Toad Treasure Tracker...it's set up as a direct prequel to 3D World/Odyssey and the Super Crown from New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe seems to be an ancient treasure Toadette in particular searched out, hence her being the one who uses it in NSMBUD.

Speaking of, one neat little thing I like in the DLC was the illustrations depicting that canon hunt;

As you can see in the artwork; Toadette is the one of the duo who finds the ancient map describing the legendary crown, and whilst Captain Toad is happy with the heaps of crowns he finds, Toadette isn't as easily impressed...she WANTS that magic crown. Even in the last image she's examining the one they got from Wingo.

Lastly after you beat the final maze, Toadette is standing BY the super crown ready to collect it. I think these are neat little additions.

 

[fogbadge]

cap with that tower of crowns on his head would make a cracking victory pose

 

[1.21 Jiggawatts]

Here is what I think Captain Toad’s Moveset should be

Neutral Special - Pack - Toad grabs a item out of his backpack and his weight decreases. If Toad is holding an item, he instead puts it in his backpack and his weight increases

Side Special - Slingshot - Toad launches himself using the straps of his backpack. Toad’s backpack stays where he was launched

Up Special - Backpack Boost - Toad jumps on his backpack. If the backpack hits anyone as it falls it will launch them

Down Special - Item Pull - Toad pulls a random item out of the ground.

Final Smash - IDK

 

[fogbadge]

Final Smash - IDK

why dont you check out some of our move sets in the op for ideas

 

[kaithehedgefox]

Toad isn't related to Mario, you don't need to go out of your way to mention he's distinct from Mario, all unique fighters are distinct from Mario.

Also this still doesn't explain why you are so hell-bent on giving Toad unrelated Dragon Ball moves.

Well, I thought it would be fun to play as Toad if he had Dragon Ball inspired moves.

Neutral Attack: High Speed Rush: Toad performs a punch, kick and then a flurry of alternating rapid punches.

Side Tilt: Heavy Finish: performs a powerful kick.

Forward Aerial: Flying Kick: performs a barrage of rapid kicks in the midair.

Down Aerial: Double Axe Handle: Performs a downwards slam with both hands.

Dash Attack: Does a dash attack similar to Beck's Acxelerate.

Forward Smash: Toad charges up a hadouken-like energy projectile by performing a series of rapid arm movements, then he fires it with his cupped hands.

Up Smash: Toad fires a beam of energy from his index finger upwards.

Down Smash: Toad fires a beam of energy from his index finger downwards.

Grabs and Throws: Telekinesis: Toad uses his hand via telekinesis to pick up his oppenent, then he throws them.

Standard Special: Energy Ball: Same as Mario's fireball, only with ki/chakra/energy instead of fire.

Side Special: Ki Blasts: Nearly identical to Goku's ki blasts in Super Smash Flash 2, except that it always flies straight regardless of Toad being in midair or not.

Down Special: Energy Absorption: Similar to Ness and Lucas's PSI Magnet. Toad raises his hand forward to absorb certain projectiles.

Final Smash: Super Toad: Nearly Identical to Sonic's final smash from Smash 4.

Almost the rest of Toad's moveset would be identical to Mario's.

As you see, Toad's only similar moves are his up special, neutral special, up tilt, down tilt, neutral aerial, up aerial, and back aerial. The rest of his moveset is unique.

Not to mention, I've already aforementioned that in addition to having Toadette as an alternate costune, Sally Acorn (although she's been deconfirmed since Smash 64.) She could actually be a pseudo-clone/semi-clone of Toad.

Sally's only similar moves would be her special moves and final smash. Almost the rest of her moveset would be unique. But TBH, I would rather have her as an assist trophy instead of playable.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Well, I thought it would be fun to play as Toad if he had Dragon Ball inspired moves.

Could he not be fun with more appropriate moves?

 

[kaithehedgefox]

Could he not be fun with more appropriate moves?

Actually, he could still be fun with more apropriate moves.

 

[fogbadge]

Well, I thought it would be fun to play as Toad if he had Dragon Ball inspired moves.


Not to mention, I've already aforementioned that in addition to having Toadette as an alternate costune, Sally Acorn (although she's been deconfirmed since Smash 64.) She could actually be a pseudo-clone/semi-clone of Toad.

Sally's only similar moves would be her special moves and final smash. Almost the rest of her moveset would be unique. But TBH, I would rather have her as an assist trophy instead of playable.

youre still avoiding the question of why you feel the need to declone a character who's not yet a clone

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Have you guys seen this yet?

Lol this is so fake.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

Have you guys seen this yet?

Lol this is so fake.

That trailer was so badass and marvelous! I hope it's not a mod/hack. If it's real I'm going to be delighted since Waluigi will be the only remaining Mario newcomer left.

I wouldn't be dissappointed/suprised if he gets in before Tails.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Have you guys seen this yet?

Lol this is so fake.

It's by King Bob Gaming to promote his Project M Toad mod, but god damn is it glorious.

I almost felt bad for Peach as she got blasted.

Almost.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I almost felt bad for Peach as she got blasted.

Almost.

I lmao when Toad was smiling after seeing Peach get shot by Samus's blast.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I lmao when Toad was smiling after seeing Peach get shot by Samus's blast.

For what it's worth, if Toad ever does make the leap from moveset to playable, I hope beyond all hope that Sakurai makes something similar to this for his trailer.

 

[jreed3842]

For what it's worth, if Toad ever does make the leap from moveset to playable, I hope beyond all hope that Sakurai makes something similar to this for his trailer.

I agree 100%
I want Toad’s reveal trailer to be exactly like this.
I always imagined a Toad reveal trailer to just be Toad coming out of nowhere and blasting Peach to infinity.
BUT I like the idea of him deciding to just step to the side and let someone else blast Peach away instead. It made me laugh. I loved it!

 

[fogbadge]

id much rather toads trailer had him taking out bowser and ganondorf in one hit, its not peachs fault hes in his current position

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

This doesn't make sense. If they wanted a fan-made trailer so badly, why not make one for Captain Toad, people want that persona more nowadays.

 

[fogbadge]

This doesn't make sense. If they wanted a fan-made trailer so badly, why not make one for Captain Toad, people want that persona more nowadays.

i think most people see supporting toad and captain toad as much the same thing

 

[YoshiandToad]

Here's the entire thing in all it's glory!

Even includes some surprises!

 

[RetrogamerMax]

id much rather toads trailer had him taking out bowser and ganondorf in one hit, its not peachs fault hes in his current position

So you basically want Toad to be One-Punch Man in his reveal trailer?

Here's the entire thing in all it's glory!

Even includes some surprises!

Oh sweet! It's a actual character mod for Smash Legacy. I knew it wasn't real, but for a mod it's very damn impressive.

 

[fogbadge]

So you basically want Toad to be One-Punch Man in his reveal trailer?

well ive never seen one punch man so i wouldnt know, also i never said taking them out at the same time

 

[YoshiandToad]

Honestly I think I prefer Peach getting some cummuppance. Ultimate made it appear to be Toad's choice to bodyguard, which is a vast improvement, but I'll never forget how hapless he looked and how callous she looks thrusting him forward to save herself.

Getting a tongue in cheek slapstick payback is both a great legacy gag and fun way to have him segue from counter to playable.

One last little easter egg I noted; Toad's first ever appearence in Smash was a screenshot of Samus firing missiles at Peach, so it seems appropriate that Samus was the one to attack Peach this time.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Honestly I think I prefer Peach getting some cummuppance. Ultimate made it appear to be Toad's choice to bodyguard, which is a vast improvement, but I'll never forget how hapless he looked and how callous she looks thrusting him forward to save herself.

Getting a tongue in cheek slapstick payback is both a great legacy gag and fun way to have him segue from counter to playable.

One last little easter egg I noted; Toad's first ever appearence in Smash was a screenshot of Samus firing missiles at Peach, so it seems appropriate that Samus was the one to attack Peach this time.

I totally forgot about that screenshot, man does that bring back memories.

 

[fogbadge]

Honestly I think I prefer Peach getting some cummuppance. Ultimate made it appear to be Toad's choice to bodyguard, which is a vast improvement, but I'll never forget how hapless he looked and how callous she looks thrusting him forward to save herself.

its kind of out of character for peach as well when you think about it

 

[Yoshi_smash]

I'd like to see Captain Toad or Toad join the roster, as he (specifically Toad) is a classic Mario character that has been excluded from Smash games for the past 20 years. If Toad or Captain Toad became a playable fighter, he/they could incorporate traits from Super Mario Bros. 2 (the first game to feature Toad as a playable character, as far as I know), as well as more recent Captain Toad traits. Or, Toad could be the main character and Captain Toad could be an alternate (similar to how the Koopalings are alternates of Bowser Jr.)

 

[fogbadge]

I'd like to see Captain Toad or Toad join the roster, as he (specifically Toad) is a classic Mario character that has been excluded from Smash games for the past 20 years. If Toad or Captain Toad became a playable fighter, he/they could incorporate traits from Super Mario Bros. 2 (the first game to feature Toad as a playable character, as far as I know), as well as more recent Captain Toad traits. Or, Toad could be the main character and Captain Toad could be an alternate (similar to how the Koopalings are alternates of Bowser Jr.)

care to join our supporters list

 

[Ed-boy]

Honestly I think I prefer Peach getting some cummuppance. Ultimate made it appear to be Toad's choice to bodyguard, which is a vast improvement, but I'll never forget how hapless he looked and how callous she looks thrusting him forward to save herself.

Getting a tongue in cheek slapstick payback is both a great legacy gag and fun way to have him segue from counter to playable.

Heck yeah. For the past couple times I've watched that moment in the trailer, the word that always came to my head was "cathartic".

Well, that and this little gem I found from years past...

 

[fogbadge]

geez guys can we not support toad with out being mean to peach?

daisy's fine

 

[YoshiandToad]

its kind of out of character for peach as well when you think about it

Actually was one of my biggest complaints about Peach's moveset. That and no moves from her own game(Super Princess Peach) included in later titles was a missed opportunity.

I love Super Mario Peach a lot, but Smash Peach has it coming. They feel like totally different characters to me honestly!