Toad/Captain Toad for Smash, Toad Brigade Assemble!

[GalacticPetey]

I've always chalked up Toad having blue spots to be reference to SMB2. There's no in universe reason, it's just a retcon. Mario's never cared about canon or consistency anyway. He just happens to look like that in that one game. But he is distinct from the Blue Toad from the NSMB games.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Makes me really wish that Toads actually wore the mushrooms on their heads as hats again - I can at least give some credit for SMB Super Show for that kind of sensible canon. Not to mention it'd lead to less silly-looking iteration of Toads literally wearing hats on top of those mushrooms in Odyssey.

(Also I'd understand Blue Toad being The Toad in 3D World, since he could have been just switching "mushroom caps" that day the adventure would start.)

Though at this point I've been getting a strong picture that Mario-canon seems to be really little cared about by the devs, as they seem to claim a weird "fact" after another now and then, and it's forced down fans' throats as "Word of God" by those who probably find it silly to have Mario share any sort of consistency or canon.

I mean, I still can't get behind some of them due how more confusion they add rather than actually explain something about the character(s) in a believable way.

Like, weren't Toads, including Toadette, once claimed to be genderless or something?

 

[Albo]

Like, weren't Toads, including Toadette, once claimed to be genderless or something?

"This is maybe a little bit of a strange story, but we never really went out of our way to decide on the sex of these characters, even though they have somewhat gendered appearances […] But I think what I can say is that Toadette and Toad are not siblings — perhaps it would be more accurate to say they are adventure pals. And that’s certainly true here [in Captain Toad]."

Kind of? I'm not sure how much credibility this holds, as "we didn't create them with gender identity in mind" and "Toads/Toadette(s?) are genderless" aren't inherently the same statement but they likely are.

On the other hand, you can't create a character like Toadette and not have considered gender identity.

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

"This is maybe a little bit of a strange story, but we never really went out of our way to decide on the sex of these characters, even though they have somewhat gendered appearances […] But I think what I can say is that Toadette and Toad are not siblings — perhaps it would be more accurate to say they are adventure pals. And that’s certainly true here [in Captain Toad]."

Kind of? I'm not sure how much credibility this holds, as "we didn't create them with gender identity in mind" and "Toads/Toadette(s?) are genderless" aren't inherently the same statement but they likely are.

On the other hand, you can't create a character like Toadette and not have considered gender identity.

Yeah, I don't like how Toadette is lumped into that sentence. I believe him when he says that they didn't consider sexes for toads as a species back in 1985, but even by the time Paper Mario came out, they were already giving clear gender distinction since there are a few female toads NPCs in the game.

Toadette was very clearly designed with the same "female partner" concept in mind that led to them reviving Birdo. I don't think Hayashida meant to imply they were still sexless.

 

[Ed-boy]

Makes me really wish that Toads actually wore the mushrooms on their heads as hats again - I can at least give some credit for SMB Super Show for that kind of sensible canon. Not to mention it'd lead to less silly-looking iteration of Toads literally wearing hats on top of those mushrooms in Odyssey.

(Also I'd understand Blue Toad being The Toad in 3D World, since he could have been just switching "mushroom caps" that day the adventure would start.)

Though at this point I've got a strong picture that Mario-canon seems to be really little cared about by the devs, as they seem to claim something weird "fact" after another, and it's forced down fans' throats as "Word of God" by those who probably find it silly to have Mario share any sort of consistency or canon.

I mean, I still can't get behind some of them due how more confusion they add rather than actually explain something about the character(s) in a believable way.

Ditto. I can believe stuff like the Koopalings not being Bowser's biological kids, but then we get stuff like Yoshi's Island supposedly being in an alternate universe rather than the Mario series' origin story, or, as you said, Toads being genderless. At this rate, I'll just pick & choose what "Words of God" to follow, & continue viewing Toad's cap as a hat.

 

[hinode]

This is something I always found interesting. Is there any benefit to having Toad and Captain Toad be distinct characters? The only real benefit I can see is in 3D World to avoid confusion, but given his other appearances, I would argue that it's easier to just call the Blue Toad...well, Blue Toad (or Buckenberry ) and keep Captain Toad as the Toad. Heck, as far as I'm concerned, there isn't even a "the" Toad in Odyssey (despite the Mushroom Kingdom being filled with red-spotted blue-vested Toads).

Besides, why can't Toad just be both Toad and Captain? Again, 3D World is the only instance where I see this possibly being confusing, whereas games prior to and following 3D World never feature Toad and Captain Toad in the same place. Honestly, with Toad's mushroom cap being confirmed as his head, I'm much more confused as to how 3D World's blue-spotted Toad can be the red-spotted Toad we all know and love. Just makes more sense that Toad threw on a headlamp and a backpack and called himself Captain...which is supposedly his origin story in the Galaxy games and thus the Toad Brigade in general?

For our visual learners, I put together a little graphic that charts the course of Captain/Toad's identity.

View attachment 151597
Of course, I could be making a mountain out of a mole hill.

I registered just to tell you that this chart gave me flashbacks to all those Zelda timeline theories/arguments. Now I can't get the image out of Toad wielding the Master Sword and being dubbed the 'Hero of Toads' out of my head.

 

[Propeller Toad]

Yeah, I don't like how Toadette is lumped into that sentence. I believe him when he says that they didn't consider sexes for toads as a species back in 1985, but even by the time Paper Mario came out, they were already giving clear gender distinction since there are a few female toads NPCs in the game.

Toadette was very clearly designed with the same "female partner" concept in mind that led to them reviving Birdo. I don't think Hayashida meant to imply they were still sexless.

I've assumed this as well - that the answer was meant for at a time for when the toads/mushroom retainers were originally designed back in 1985. There wasn't much to them at the time outside of being kidnapped hostages; however, by the time we got characters like Toad and Toadette along with the species being more defined in Paper Mario, there was a clear difference between the male and female toads. I feel that the answer might have been a bit cut off in the translation and was left loop-ended with it sounding as if Nintendo didn't consider Toad or Toadette to having genders despite source materials giving them defined genders since their debuts. Perhaps the toads do actually just assume genders (they still resemble young children with large mushroom heads)? Ah well, I'll still call em adventure pals regardless.

Outside of that, I haven't given up hope yet for a playable toad in Smash, and I really do hope we see something happen by July 13th. Captain Toad/Toad has everything going for him with the rich library of games that toads have appeared in along with multiple playable roles as heroes. Sadly, it's Sakurai that stands as an obstacle at this point. Toad is undeniably a Nintendo all star, though at this point Captain Toad is the option we have to resort to with his better defined character in recent times along with relevancy.

Though...as YoshiandToad mentioned, it can be discouraging. You'd think that Toad would be in by now...but he isn't even after all these years. It's tough, the toads have appeared as playable heroes in several platformers (SMB2, NSMB Wii, NSMB U/LU, SM3DW, and SMR) and Toad in general has been skipped as a playable character in Smash (aside from Nabbit in NSLU) so far. There's also Wario's Woods and Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker that stars Toad/Captain Toad along with the multitude of spinoffs that Toad has frequently been playable in. Even Rosalina who was playable in SM3DW as an unlockable character...got in before Toad himself? I like the character, but it just baffles me...If you want the option to play Mario, Luigi, Peach or Rosa in Smash, you can. However, Toad is completely skipped as a mere meatshield for years. It just feels completely wrong especially considering his seniority even as a playable character in the Mario series, and it's hard to consider this a true Smash Bros Ultimate to me at least without a Toad of some form being playable. Toad has starred in his own games, playable in several platformers, and frequently appears in the main series and spinoffs. He played a massive role in my childhood, and I personally still hold out for his chance to Smash.

Ah...had to get that out of my chest. But still, I hope we get Captain Toad at the very least. It stings to see Toad still being confined as Peach's move, but it is ...definitely more of a step up from Toad's treatment in the past in the Smash games. Captain Toad and Toadette have yet to be seen in Smash Ultimate yet, so there's some hope. Hopefully July 13th will reveal something to ease our minds. A confirmation would be...a true celebration considering how long some of us have waited for a playable Toad. But if it's a deconfirmation, at least Nintendo would acknowledged Captain Toad's relevance and will put away our disappointment as opposed to leaving us in the dark for much longer. There is always the option of DLC, but we will have to see how Captain Toad is represented in the game by then. The rise of Waluigi's popularity is scary while Sakurai's view on Geno could give him a leg up over poor Toad considering how Sakurai seems to view Toad rather poorly. I just hope our shroomy bud gets a good treatment this time via the Captain. 5th time's the charm, right?

Bah, Sakurai just give us our little shroom. It just feels wrong to look at the Mario roster icons on the Smash site without a Toad there.

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

I've assumed this as well - that the answer was meant for at a time for when the toads/mushroom retainers were originally designed back in 1985. There wasn't much to them at the time outside of being kidnapped hostages; however, by the time we got characters like Toad and Toadette along with the species being more defined in Paper Mario, there was a clear difference between the male and female toads. I feel that the answer might have been a bit cut off in the translation and was left loop-ended with it sounding as if Nintendo didn't consider Toad or Toadette to having genders despite source materials giving them defined genders since their debuts. Perhaps the toads do actually just assume genders (they still resemble young children with large mushroom heads)? Ah well, I'll still call em adventure pals regardless.

Outside of that, I haven't given up hope yet for a playable toad in Smash, and I really do hope we see something happen by July 13th. Captain Toad/Toad has everything going for him with the rich library of games that toads have appeared in along with multiple playable roles as heroes. Sadly, it's Sakurai that stands as an obstacle at this point. Toad is undeniably a Nintendo all star, though at this point Captain Toad is the option we have to resort to with his better defined character in recent times along with relevancy.

Though...as YoshiandToad mentioned, it can be discouraging. You'd think that Toad would be in by now...but he isn't even after all these years. It's tough, the toads have appeared as playable heroes in several platformers (SMB2, NSMB Wii, NSMB U/LU, SM3DW, and SMR) and Toad in general has been skipped as a playable character in Smash (aside from Nabbit in NSLU) so far. There's also Wario's Woods and Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker that stars Toad/Captain Toad along with the multitude of spinoffs that Toad has frequently been playable in. Even Rosalina who was playable in SM3DW as an unlockable character...got in before Toad himself? I like the character, but it just baffles me...If you want the option to play Mario, Luigi, Peach or Rosa in Smash, you can. However, Toad is completely skipped as a mere meatshield for years. It just feels completely wrong especially considering his seniority even as a playable character in the Mario series, and it's hard to consider this a true Smash Bros Ultimate to me at least without a Toad of some form being playable. Toad has starred in his own games, playable in several platformers, and frequently appears in the main series and spinoffs. He played a massive role in my childhood, and I personally still hold out for his chance to Smash.

Ah...had to get that out of my chest. But still, I hope we get Captain Toad at the very least. It stings to see Toad still being confined as Peach's move, but it is ...definitely more of a step up from Toad's treatment in the past in the Smash games. Captain Toad and Toadette have yet to be seen in Smash Ultimate yet, so there's some hope. Hopefully July 13th will reveal something to ease our minds. A confirmation would be...a true celebration considering how long some of us have waited for a playable Toad. But if it's a deconfirmation, at least Nintendo would acknowledged Captain Toad's relevance and will put away our disappointment as opposed to leaving us in the dark for much longer. There is always the option of DLC, but we will have to see how Captain Toad is represented in the game by then. The rise of Waluigi's popularity is scary while Sakurai's view on Geno could give him a leg up over poor Toad considering how Sakurai seems to view Toad rather poorly. I just hope our shroomy bud gets a good treatment this time via the Captain. 5th time's the charm, right?

Bah, Sakurai just give us our little shroom. It just feels wrong to look at the Mario roster icons on the Smash site without a Toad there.

I hope Sakurai eventually gives an answer as to why Toad is still absent as a fighter. All I can think of is lack of a full moveset (but creative liberties have been taken before and I seriously doubt much is incomplete anyways). I just want an answer so I can finally know and brainstorm ways around the problem.

Maybe if this was going to be a normal Smash sequel with priority to newcomers, Toad would've made it but instead was outprioritized by the other additions.

 

[Propeller Toad]

I hope Sakurai eventually gives an answer as to why Toad is still absent as a fighter. All I can think of is lack of a full moveset (but creative liberties have been taken before and I seriously doubt much is incomplete anyways). I just want an answer so I can finally know and brainstorm ways around the problem.

Maybe if this was going to be a normal Smash sequel with priority to newcomers, Toad would've made it but instead was outprioritized by the other additions.

Those who grew up with games where toads were common npcs that do nothing but panic and fear might resort to the viewpoint of having trouble envisioning toad as a fighter/boring as a fighter; however, to me it just feels incredibly criminal to leave Toad behind this long considering the history of the toads in general. And this includes their playable roles as heroes too which some of us have grew up with (whether it SMB2/Wario's Woods or as of late, NSMB Wii/SM3DW and CT:TT for future/recent audiences). Hopefully the future continues to be bright for Toad (though no idea what Mario Party is doing - going back to the roots with Toad as main host again?).

Captain still has a shot considering his and Toadette's absence in Smash Ultimate so far, but we will see. I for one am excited for Treasure Tracker for the Switch, and here's for more adventures for Captain Toad to star in the future! I'd love to see this adventure/puzzle hybrid continue onwards as a long lasting series akin to Yoshi, WarioWare, DKC and LM. Maybe it will grow big enough to the point Sakurai can't ignore it like Villager as a fighter? Ah well, outside of Smash - I love both Captain Toad; Treasure Tracker and Animal Crossing, so hopefully Captain gets his due too!

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

Those who grew up with games where toads were common npcs that do nothing but panic and fear might resort to the viewpoint of having trouble envisioning toad as a fighter/boring as a fighter; however, to me it just feels incredibly criminal to leave Toad behind this long considering the history of the toads in general. And this includes their playable roles as heroes too which some of us have grew up with (whether it SMB2/Wario's Woods or as of late, NSMB Wii/SM3DW and CT:TT for future/recent audiences). Hopefully the future continues to be bright for Toad (though no idea what Mario Party is doing - going back to the roots with Toad as main host again?).

Captain still has a shot considering his and Toadette's absence in Smash Ultimate so far, but we will see. I for one am excited for Treasure Tracker for the Switch, and here's for more adventures for Captain Toad to star in the later future! I'd love to see this adventure/puzzle hybrid continue onwards as a long lasting series akin to Yoshi, WarioWare, DKC and LM. Maybe it will grow big enough to the point Sakurai can't ignore it like Villager as a fighter? Ah well, outside of Smash - I love both Captain Toad; Treasure Tracker and Animal Crossing, so hopefully Captain gets his due too!

Getting into Smash would do the character some good. He'd be seen in a positive light as a cool character who can take as much of a beating as he dishes out! Strikers left an impression on me with how fierce he and his theme were. Smash would encourage Nintendo to give him more of those brave roles where he's not afraid to get his hands dirty with adventure. I know toads are seen as non-confrontational pacifists, but it's nice to see the little guy stand up with confidence that makes him look tall and proud. Same goes for Toadette too because she always seemed like she could kick butt.

 

[ChronoBound]

To be fair, I'm pretty sure we'll get something of him. I'd rather it NOT be an AT, as Assist Trophies rarely get promoted, and we're mostly here because we want a playable Toad character be it regular or Captain. A stage would be pretty fun however.

Kind of been a bit of a hard life being a Toad fan in terms of Smash speculation:

Smash 64
"This game is awesome. It's got 4 of the Mario Kart crew in it! Maybe one day Toad will join alongside Peach, Bowser and Wario..."

Melee:
"Okay, so now they got Bowser and Peach in, that's all the major Mario characters right outside Toad and Wario? And hey, look, they got a Toad running in the background! They made a unique model for him...oh wait, it's an animated Peach counter...well okay, at least it proves it can be done!
I even heard Toad's a secret character. Some rumour going around about the credits...hope this means good things"

Brawl:
"Okay, well, we all knew Wario would probably also outprioritise Toad due to having his own game series. That's...I guess that's fair? And hey; Toad's done well on that poll! Toad is literally the next biggest character in the Mario series left now...oh, I guess Bowser Jr is being heavily promoted though...oh no..."

Sm4sh:
"...Toad's one of the first deconfirmed characters, and just as he finally started getting playable roles in the main series again. ROSALINA GOT IN OVER HIM?!? But she's the secret character from 3D World, and he's a default one...this is bull..."

Sm4sh DLC period:
"...okay so our boy is a counter, and Bowser Jr is now in alongside Rosalina and...fricking Dr. Mario returning...but hey everyone from the actual Nintendo newcomers were somewhat recent characters, and the detractors have now shut up since Captain Toad has given Toad both an identity, his own game, and a role. The game's even sold really well considering it's been on the worst selling console to date! And look, Toad may have done well in the ballot since the Miis have been given an outfit to fight in...things are looking good for the next game!""

Ultimate period:
"Okay guys this is it; Captain Toad Treasure Tracker is recent, pretty successful game of which he is the protagonist, he's a recognisable face, it's fair to believe he did decently on the poll due to how famous Toad is in general, he got a Mii outfit(Hell if K. Rool and Geno fans can count it, why not?) and there's literally no bigger Mario character in his way at this point. He's got to have a good shot...."

Sakurai: "The focus of this game is veterans. Also Daisy is in, and you shouldn't expect too many newcomers this time round. But hey; Toad no longer acts like he's a hostage. ENJOY."

"...****."

So now Captain Toad holds the only chance we have to get in and despite his impressive resume that would have gotten him in the door for literally any other Smash game before(being recent and a protagonist of a successful spinoff), we're now dealing with limited newcomers, Sakurai's been stated on record that he wants Geno as a playable character and if this is his last game, he's likely to promote Geno above Captain Toad, and as for Mario spinoff characters; WarioWare's Ashley looks like she's also a big frontrunner.

At least Toad's being treated with a modicum of respect after nearly 17 years in Peach's moveset. And I guess there's always the possibility of the Mii outfit returning. I SUPPOSE we shouldn't grumble, but still none of these are what we've desired for nearly 20 years.

Toad fans sound as defeated as Ridley fans did up until the Vergeben leak. Keep in mind that Sakurai outright said Ridley was too big in November 2014, only to end up changing his mind only a year later (possibly when he submitted his first game design plan for Ultimate in December 2015). There were not too many "new" characters for him to put in during this gap of time (Inklings, a Pokemon from Sun/Moon, possibly Elma, and maybe Captain Toad). However, this was likely a major factor for why Sakurai decided to bring back everyone, and why Sakurai decided to re-evaluate his long running stance on Ridley.

I really feel for you guys. You are among the longest running communities in Smash Bros., and unlike K. Rool who merely had to wait behind Diddy Kong, it seems there is a neverending line of characters that somehow manage to bump ahead of Toad (Rosalina, Bowser Jr., and now it seems like Geno and Waluigi).

Like Ridley, Toad is a character whose resume was strong enough make it in for Brawl, and if not Brawl due to how many other characters had to make it in, certainly so for Smash 4, of which during the interim years found him having a playable role in the mainline series again after 20 years (New Super Mario Bros. Wii, New Super Mario Bros. U, New Super Luigi U, and Super Mario 3D World). Toad is a mainline major character in Nintendo's single most popular and well known franchise, and has been a major character for over 30 years now.

This is a desperate battle that few other characters who have gotten into Smash Bros. (or returned to it) have ever seen, especially so for a character with the credentials like Toad.

Toad has already been ruled out for this game (as mentioned earlier, its nice to see that Toad is actually being shown as a combatant this time), however, Captain Toad's status is still unknown. Captain Toad was THE sleeper hit of the Wii U, and its not just getting a port on the Switch like many other Wii U games, but also the aging (its over seven years old now) 3DS. Nintendo obviously wants people to play that game (and so do I, it was one of the few games that made me wish I had a Wii U).

Captain Toad's main handicap I feel is his inability to jump as one of his core points in his game. I feel such a bullet point, is enough to make Sakurai rule him out right off the bat. However, Sakurai has said this in his recent Famitsu column, "Smash is Special"
"It takes a lot of ingenuity to come up with a way to implement seemingly impossible characters into the game"

I do not think Sakurai was talking about Captain Toad in particular, but Sakurai seems to relish implementing characters people seem to think would not work or people have overlooked. Sakurai finding a way to make a character with the inability to jump work, would be just another example of Ultimate making the impossible possible (bringing back all veterans ever and finally making Ridley playable would be two other examples).

I would be deceiving all of you if I did not say that I am personally not optimistic about Captain Toad's prospects. I am not even 50/50 on him happening. However, try to keep fighting. Its not over this round until the Captain goes down. We still have another week until the ports drop, so hopefully we will have our answer in a week or less time (for better or worse).

Whether it be a stage, an Assist Trophy, or hopefully a playable character, let's hope we finally learn of what kind of place Captain Toad and its content have in Ultimate. Toad fans, victory or defeat, let us keep moving. The fight is not over for this battle (Ultimate), until the Captain falls.

Toad for Smash Bros.

 

[SonicMario]

On Geno and Waluigi/competition in general... I can't help but think even if Geno gets in it's be a supremely special case given he's owned by Square and would really have no bearing on Mario representation. I even feel like he'd get his own logo rather then a Mushroom. Just can't shake that feeling about that. I know if Captain Toad still doesn't make it and Geno does, it may feel that way to some. But I really don't think that's how it would work. I don't think Sakurai is going to just be given the choice between a 1st-party Nintendo rising star or a more difficult to get obscure cult classic character.

And the best case scenario for Waluigi right now is if some people's crazy theories are right and Waluigi could still at least be DLC if the outcry to his assist trophy status is really that big of a deal. But at least for the base game, Waluigi is definitely not a factor either right now.

I feel like Captain Toad's biggest wall (Besides prioritizing other franchises over Mario) in his way is simply if the Smash team is happy with how Mario is represented already. And I'm not even saying Daisy is part of that given she's an echo AKA a bonus addition. There is at least a good chance Captain Toad is in the original Project Plan back in December 2015 when his game had just hit a little over one year old. By all means if the Mario representation expands at all in regards to unique newcomers it should be Captain Toad. Before people bring up Paper Mario, Color Splash came out in October of 2016. Which even if the December 2015 project plan was not the final one, I doubt Sakurai spent nearly an entire year until they got a final project plan. So the last Paper Mario game before Ultimate plan's was made still should of been Sticker Star. And that only got a stage in Smash 4.

So in regard to true unique Mario reps that would have the mushroom symbol. I think it's still Captain Toad or bust. In short, Geno would be a special case, Waluigi's still an AT, and while Paper Mario might arguably be Captain Toad's biggest threat. According to project plan timelines, Sticker Star was still the last released game in the series before the plan was made.

 

[Albo]

According to project plan timelines, Sticker Star was still the last released game in the series before the plan was made.

And there were so many Toads in Sticker Star that could actually be a pro towards Captain Toad!

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Toad fans sound as defeated as Ridley fans did up until the Vergeben leak. Keep in mind that Sakurai outright said Ridley was too big in November 2014, only to end up changing his mind only a year later (possibly when he submitted his first game design plan for Ultimate in December 2015). There were not too many "new" characters for him to put in during this gap of time (Inklings, a Pokemon from Sun/Moon, possibly Elma, and maybe Captain Toad). However, this was likely a major factor for why Sakurai decided to bring back everyone, and why Sakurai decided to re-evaluate his long running stance on Ridley.

I really feel for you guys. You are among the longest running communities in Smash Bros., and unlike K. Rool who merely had to wait behind Diddy Kong, it seems there is a neverending line of characters that somehow manage to bump ahead of Toad (Rosalina, Bowser Jr., and now it seems like Geno and Waluigi).

Like Ridley, Toad is a character whose resume was strong enough make it in for Brawl, and if not Brawl due to how many other characters had to make it in, certainly so for Smash 4, of which during the interim years found him having a playable role in the mainline series again after 20 years (New Super Mario Bros. Wii, New Super Mario Bros. U, New Super Luigi U, and Super Mario 3D World). Toad is a mainline major character in Nintendo's single most popular and well known franchise, and has been a major character for over 30 years now.

This is a desperate battle that few other characters who have gotten into Smash Bros. (or returned to it) have ever seen, especially so for a character with the credentials like Toad.

Toad has already been ruled out for this game (as mentioned earlier, its nice to see that Toad is actually being shown as a combatant this time), however, Captain Toad's status is still unknown. Captain Toad was THE sleeper hit of the Wii U, and its not just getting a port on the Switch like many other Wii U games, but also the aging (its over seven years old now) 3DS. Nintendo obviously wants people to play that game (and so do I, it was one of the few games that made me wish I had a Wii U).

Captain Toad's main handicap I feel is his inability to jump as one of his core points in his game. I feel such a bullet point, is enough to make Sakurai rule him out right off the bat. However, Sakurai has said this in his recent Famitsu column, "Smash is Special"
"It takes a lot of ingenuity to come up with a way to implement seemingly impossible characters into the game"

I do not think Sakurai was talking about Captain Toad in particular, but Sakurai seems to relish implementing characters people seem to think would not work or people have overlooked. Sakurai finding a way to make a character with the inability to jump work, would be just another example of Ultimate making the impossible possible (bringing back all veterans ever and finally making Ridley playable would be two other examples).

I would be deceiving all of you if I did not say that I am personally not optimistic about Captain Toad's prospects. I am not even 50/50 on him happening. However, try to keep fighting. Its not over this round until the Captain goes down. We still have another week until the ports drop, so hopefully we will have our answer in a week or less time (for better or worse).

Whether it be a stage, an Assist Trophy, or hopefully a playable character, let's hope we finally learn of what kind of place Captain Toad and its content have in Ultimate. Toad fans, victory or defeat, let us keep moving. The fight is not over for this battle (Ultimate), until the Captain falls.

Toad for Smash Bros.

Biggest thanks for your uplifting speech Chrono - the comparison to Ridley-fans is rather eye-revealing in this case, actually. Not to mention, as you said, playable Ridley has happened despite all the odds.

I can only pray the part about Sakurai re-evaluating over these characters he's been building generalized opinions during series' run, will hopefully work in our plucky captain's favor. Some signs have already pointed on this development via Toad being more proactive in this installment - so there's more "listening" and giving fans what they've been wanting done in this iteration.

With all that and the port coming next week, I'm having a gut feeling that things will be substantially moving on forward, soon enough.

 

[ChronoBound]

The fight is not over for this battle (Ultimate), until the Captain falls.

Toad for Smash Bros.

As much as there were quite a few of you that loved my uplifting words, I do not think this was a good sentence to end it on since it looks only towards Toad fans' battle ending whenever Captain is deconfirmed ("until the Captain falls"), but rather I should have said (I was rushing), "This fight is not over for this battle (Ultimate), until the Captain falls... or rises! May his next journey lead him onto the roster of Smash Bros."

Biggest thanks for your uplifting speech Chrono - the comparison to Ridley-fans is rather eye-revealing in this case, actually. Not to mention, as you said, playable Ridley has happened despite all the odds.

Its not just with Ridley, but Roy had an absolutely dire situation of returning at the end of 2014:
1. There were already four Fire Emblem characters on the roster (which people thought was more than enough).
2. One of those four characters was a Marth clone (Lucina).
3. Lots of popular Brawl veterans were cut which overshadowed Roy.
4. Trolls said Roy could not return due to another Roy being in the game (Roy Koopa).
5. There being limited slots for DLC.

Despite all of the odds, Roy ended up returning. Heck, even every character coming back (even Young Link) for this game was a miracle of effort and circumstance.

I have a hard time seeing a Nintendo Direct happening next week (and thus a newcomer unveil), but at the very least owners of the Switch and 3DS (one a growing userbase, and the other a massive one), will finally have the opportunity to learn why so many have been endeared by this Mario character for the last 30 years. I, myself am contemplating whether to pick up Captain Toad for the 3DS (which I own) or the Switch (which I plan to eventually pick up). I will decide once the game releases and I see what people have to say about each of the ports.

Captain Toad, a character who cannot jump, a character representing a Nintendo All-Star with an incredible resume who has already been "half de-confirmed", making it onto the roster, might be another "impossible made possible" feat that Sakurai has attained with Ultimate. Here is hoping and dreaming.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

As much as there were quite a few of you that loved my uplifting words, I do not think this was a good sentence to end it on since it looks only towards Toad fans' battle ending whenever Captain is deconfirmed ("until the Captain falls"), but rather I should have said (I was rushing), "This fight is not over for this battle (Ultimate), until the Captain falls... or rises! May his next journey lead him onto the roster of Smash Bros."

I kind of get that - but on the other side, whether deconfirmed (or not), I think we'll ought to keep on going anyway in the future. I think Ridley and his fan support is something we can at least look up to as a proof that maybe things might not stay the same for certain characters forever.

Nevertheless, let's stick to the now.

Its not just with Ridley, but Roy had an absolutely dire situation of returning at the end of 2014:
1. There were already four Fire Emblem characters on the roster (which people thought was more than enough).
2. One of those four characters was a Marth clone (Lucina).
3. Lots of popular Brawl veterans were cut which overshadowed Roy.
4. Trolls said Roy could not return due to another Roy being in the game (Roy Koopa).
5. There being limited slots for DLC.

Despite all of the odds, Roy ended up returning. Heck, even every character coming back (even Young Link) for this game was a miracle of effort and circumstance.

It so was pretty miraculous to witness back then - I'm still pretty damn ecstatic to remember that.

And goodness, how this game's just upping that ante. Still glad to have Roy again among Squirtle and much more. (Young Link's highly appreciated from me too, been digging this iteration lately from Links)

I have a hard time seeing a Nintendo Direct happening next week (and thus a newcomer unveil), but at the very least owners of the Switch and 3DS (one a growing userbase, and the other a massive one), will finally have the opportunity to learn why so many have been endeared by this Mario character for the last 30 years. I, myself am contemplating whether to pick up Captain Toad for the 3DS (which I own) or the Switch (which I plan to eventually pick up). I will decide once the game releases and I see what people have to say about each of the ports.

Robin and Lucina didn't need a Direct for their reveal though, so I think we could see a newcomer reveal without a Direct in the future. (The keyword is Twitter~)

The least I can wish for now is that Sakurai won't be showcasing his first "new" content from Ultimate in his SSBU Blog-site featuring Captain Toad in NPC-role or something, essentially deconfirming him the very same day he'd be having his port finally out. That'd be most disappointing way to reveal him for us, to say the least...

I guess my wishful thinking is on hinting on Captain Toad him being in the game ambiguously? The best way I can see this being done is that they'd show a stage based on Treasure Tracker with fighters in it - but not showing Captain Toad himself there, of course.

That'd be a big kind of boost in progression compared to what we have now, and definitely would create a good sum of buzz in the community.
Of course, it'd be still making us have higher stakes to dread on with, but I rather keep this game going than have it end already next week.

Captain Toad, a character who cannot jump, a character representing a Nintendo All-Star with an incredible resume who has already been "half de-confirmed", making it onto the roster, might be another "impossible made possible" feat that Sakurai has attained with Ultimate. Here is hoping and dreaming.

One definitely could say we're having one hell of an adventure dealing with all that. It's a real crunch.

Which is why I'll be hoping even more dearly that we'll be witnessing the Captain been making his way through those obstacles in the future.

No crying till the end.

 

[Albo]

The least I can wish for now is that Sakurai won't be showcasing his first "new" content from Ultimate in his SSBU Blog-site featuring Captain Toad in NPC-role or something, essentially deconfirming him the very same day he'd be having his port finally out. That'd be most disappointing way to reveal him for us, to say the least...

Memories from that Pic of the Day for 3D World...

shudder

 

[SonicMario]

Memories from that Pic of the Day for 3D World...

View attachment 151913
shudder

The day Rosalina was confirmed I felt was worse. They had Toad in front of Link about to shoot an arrow with Sakurai making Toad say something like "Hold on! We don't want to miss today's direct do we?"

That was perhaps the dirtiest a potential newcomer/already deconfirmed character was treated until the Chrom thing happened.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I, myself am contemplating whether to pick up Captain Toad for the 3DS (which I own) or the Switch (which I plan to eventually pick up). I will decide once the game releases and I see what people have to say about each of the ports.

An early review/comparison came out recently which may help you choose your preferred version:

 

[Arcadenik]

The day Rosalina was confirmed I felt was worse. They had Toad in front of Link about to shoot an arrow with Sakurai making Toad say something like "Hold on! We don't want to miss today's direct do we?"

That was perhaps the dirtiest a potential newcomer/already deconfirmed character was treated until the Chrom thing happened.

That was the worst. It was almost like Sakurai was giving Toad fans hope that Toad would finally get in Smash.

Imagine if it went like this.

Toad: "Hold on! We don't want to miss today's direct do we?"

Direct: *Toad confirmed!*

That's how giving hope works. But Sakurai gave us false hope. That's how it felt!

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

The day Rosalina was confirmed I felt was worse. They had Toad in front of Link about to shoot an arrow with Sakurai making Toad say something like "Hold on! We don't want to miss today's direct do we?"

That was perhaps the dirtiest a potential newcomer/already deconfirmed character was treated until the Chrom thing happened.

Urgh, that still stings. I had forgotten about that until now.

I guess it's why I even moreso hope they don't try to "outdo that" via my speculative worst case scenario regarding what could go down next Friday.

 

[fogbadge]

i looking forward to next week and the tone around here changes when everyone starts playing treasure tracker again

 

[SonicMario]

Credit to Gold_Jacobson for this

It's a list of the Top 50 best selling Wii U games. I'll only quote the first half/Top 25 of what Gold Jacob's post had though

Mario Kart 8 – Represented
New Super Mario Bros. U – Represented
Super Smash Bros. for Wii U – Represented
Super Mario 3D World – Represented
Splatoon – Inkling
Nintendo Land – Represented
Super Mario Maker – New Mario Costume
New Super Luigi U – Represented
Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker HD – Represented
Mario Party 10 – Represented
Wii Party U – Represented
Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze – Debatable
Yoshi’s Woolly World – Represented
Minecraft – Unrepresented
Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker – Unrepresented
Pokken Tournament – Represented
Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild – Represented
Hyrule Warriors – Represented
LEGO City Undercover – Eh
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess HD – Represented
Pikmin 3 – Debatable
Paper Mario: Color Splash – Debatable
Wii Fit U – Represented
Bayonetta 2 – Represented
Xenoblade Chronicles X – Unrepresented

For the exception of maybe Tropical Freeze, Treasure Tracker is the highest selling first party game not yet represented in some way. This should bode well for Captain Toad and should promise, even if not a playable character. A good stage and/or Assist Trophy. So in other words, Dixie Kong and Captain Toad should be the characters next in-line for characters representing a Wii U game going by sales numbers after the Inklings have done so. We all know Wii Fit Trainer while certainly catching everybody by surprise must of been at least partly considered because she was carried in which just how well Wii Fit and the Wii series did in general. Not to mention the game Treasure Tracker spin-offed from is #4 in this list

 

[Arcadenik]

i looking forward to next week and the tone around here changes when everyone starts playing treasure tracker again

I hope so but none of the leaks say Captain Toad is in.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Credit to Gold_Jacobson for this

It's a list of the Top 50 best selling Wii U games. I'll only quote the first half/Top 25 of what Gold Jacob's post had though



For the exception of maybe Tropical Freeze, Treasure Tracker is the highest selling first party game not yet represented in some way. This should bode well for Captain Toad and should promise, even if not a playable character. A good stage and/or Assist Trophy. So in other words, Dixie Kong and Captain Toad should be the characters next in-line for characters representing a Wii U game going by sales numbers after the Inklings have done so. We all know Wii Fit Trainer while certainly catching everybody by surprise must of been at least partly considered because she was carried in which just how well Wii Fit and the Wii series did in general. Not to mention the game Treasure Tracker spin-offed from is #4 in this list

This is actually something I brought up with BluePikmin during Captain Toad's initial day in Rate Their Chances. He was commenting that whilst Captain Toad appears to have his own franchise it pales in sales comparison to the other Mario spinoffs.

Whilst DK definitely blew Captain Toad out of the water without any debate(1.73m), Yoshi had pretty similar sales(CTTT: 1.42m, YWW: 1.51m), Paper Mario did worse(0.87m although this could be due to Sticker Star leaving a bad taste in everyone's mouths) and Wario came in at only 76 on this list with a measly 0.25m sales despite Ashley's massive popularity and Warioware being an established beloved franchise.

I'll be very interested to see how Captain Toad does on Switch and 3DS.

I mean aside from the obvious that DK has 18 games to his name, Yoshi has 12 and Wario has 16 to Captain Toads 1(arguably 2 if we count the Switch/3DS versions as a seperate game rather than a port) it seems Treasure Tracker held it's own pretty well against the fellow Mario spinoff cast.

 

[Arcadenik]

Feeling TOAD-ivated? What adventures are you getting up to with your friends these school holidays? #CaptainToad #NintendoSwitch #3DS pic.twitter.com/e9ozcPpFtE

— Nintendo AU NZ (@NintendoAUNZ) July 8, 2018

All the fan demand for Toad for Smash started with The Toad.

 

[Hot_N_Tasty]

Something I was thinking about: Say CaptainToad DOES get a Stage (or even better, a playable fighter!), but it's not listed as "Mario Series" and is its own identity (Ala DK, Yoshi, and Wario). What do you think the emblem/logo for the CTTT "Series" be?

I personally like the idea of the Super Gem being the basis of the design. It's something easily associated with Captain Toad and his games, as well as being distinct enough from the Super Mushroom to be confused with it.

 

[Arcadenik]

Sounds good but let’s be real. Captain Toad is not getting his own series icon like Yoshi. No point in grasping straws from that angle.

The only straw we can grasp onto is Toadette not being part of Daisy’s moveset so she could be Captain Toad’s alt.

Behind every great Toad is a great Toadette.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I hope so but none of the leaks say Captain Toad is in.

Looks like you got your wish.

Of course, leaks so, probably a bunch of baloney.

"In November there will be a Super Smash Brothers Ultimate Direct giving many details on the game before it's release in December. 2 final characters will be announced here, code named Explorer and Spirit. Explorer can travel to a lot of places on foot, but when going vertical, needs the help of a second entity. Spirit hasn't been seen for a long time, yet still has a huge fan-base. This character was decided on to capitalize on the theme of Ultimate, which was giving the fans exactly what they want. "

Explorer would refer to Captain Toad, and I guess Geno is Spirit unless it's somehow Isaac. "Pirate" "Foldable" and "Underground" are also in the leak which insantly throw doubt.

So we're gonna get; Daisy, Paper Mario(Foldable), Captain Toad(Explorer) AND Geno(Spirit)...that's FOUR Mario characters and I just don't see it. Everyone but Waluigi fans get their dreams come true? Doubt!

 

[Arcadenik]

So we're gonna get; Daisy, Paper Mario(Foldable), Captain Toad(Explorer) AND Geno(Spirit)...that's FOUR Mario characters and I just don't see it. Everyone but Waluigi fans get their dreams come true? Doubt!

Four Mario newcomers? Daisy, Paper Mario, Captain Toad, and Geno?! As a lifelong fan of the Mario series, that would be a dream come true!

Pirate = King K. Rool OR Tetra
Foldable = Paper Mario
Underground = Muddy Mole?
Explorer = Captain Toad
Spirit = Geno

But no Simon Belmont? No Dixie Kong?

Edit

Underground could be Quote from Cave Story. I would be okay with that. I actually enjoyed Cave Story on the original Wii. I still have the WiiWare version.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Incidentally, this just got posted in the Official discussion thread:

Post Smash 64 most requested characters

for those without a google translate; Toad made the top ten at number 9, although he is the lowest ranking of the Mario requests(Bowser, Peach and Wario were 1,2 and 3 respectively) as well as ranking below Dedede, Mewtwo and Ganondorf although he ranked above Diddy Kong, Marth, Pokemon Trainer, "someone new from Fire Emblem"(Roy?), and Metaknight from eventual Smash fighters.

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

Incidentally, this just got posted in the Official discussion thread:

Post Smash 64 most requested characters

for those without a google translate; Toad made the top ten at number 9, although he is the lowest ranking of the Mario requests(Bowser, Peach and Wario were 1,2 and 3 respectively) as well as ranking below Dedede, Mewtwo and Ganondorf although he ranked above Diddy Kong, Marth, Pokemon Trainer, "someone new from Fire Emblem"(Roy?), and Metaknight from eventual Smash fighters.

Interesting that there were people who wanted both Marth and a recent FE lord before Sakurai made it happen...

It's entirely possible that by the end of this game, we get Banjo & Kazooie and the only realizable character in the top ten that would still be absent (sorry James and Mew) is Toad. Sakurai's had requests for Toad going on twenty years and who knows how many times he's had internal debates with himself over it?

Toad is always relevant so his support shouldn't have petered off come ballot time. That's pretty significant when you think about it.

 

[Arcadenik]

Toad made the top ten at number 9, although he is the lowest ranking of the Mario requests(Bowser, Peach and Wario were 1,2 and 3 respectively).

This was before Rosalina and Bowser Jr. existed. This was before Daisy, Waluigi, and Paper Mario built huge fanbases over the years. They got their start in year 2000 (Daisy was revived in 2000).

 

[Albo]

I think Pirate much more likely refers to King K. Rool than Tetra, with "This character has a long history with Nintendo but hasn't been very relevant until speculation for Smash Brawl and 4 started" probably referring to the fact that he's missed out on the more recent DKC games but he, besides Dixie, is the most likely DK candidate for Smash and he's been around since the original DKC. Plus, Tetra's introduction in the GameCube era places her in a much more recent period of time.

While the prospect of three new Mario representatives seems daunting, it honestly wouldn't be that hard to believe. When considering both mechanics and aesthetics, Paper Mario is arguably the most unique Mario-based spinoff of...well, Mario himself, and in my opinion it's probably the aesthetics that knock M&L Mario/Luigi or SMRPG Mario below him since the other two, outside of slight stylistic choices, are essentially just Mario. (Of course, Sakurai could say f**k all and just use Paper Mario as a rep for all the Mario RPGs by blending moves from M&L and SMRPG, which actually sounds pretty cool now that I'm thinking about it). With regards to Captain Toad and Geno, well, I'm sure I don't need to justify Captain Toad. And we all know Sakurai's been wanting Geno for some time now, and he does have a pretty vocal fanbase.

To be honest I find this leak slightly more believable than that other recent 4chan leak simply because I doubt we'll be receiving 11 newcomers. I think when Sakurai said we won't be receiving as many newcomers this time around, he really meant they were scaling back.

Then again, I might want to believe this leak because it means getting Captain Toad, Paper Mario, and a new Paper Mario game.

but what if Foldable is really referring to a Nintendo Labo rep

Toad is always relevant so his support shouldn't have petered off come ballot time. That's pretty significant when you think about it.

I wonder if this is why Toad is just Peach's counter in Melee, because fans clearly wanted him there but he was the least popular Mario rep and being Peach's neutral special was a sort of compromise?

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

I think Pirate much more likely refers to King K. Rool than Tetra, with "This character has a long history with Nintendo but hasn't been very relevant until speculation for Smash Brawl and 4 started" probably referring to the fact that he's missed out on the more recent DKC games but he, besides Dixie, is the most likely DK candidate for Smash and he's been around since the original DKC. Plus, Tetra's introduction in the GameCube era places her in a much more recent period of time.

While the prospect of three new Mario representatives seems daunting, it honestly wouldn't be that hard to believe. When considering both mechanics and aesthetics, Paper Mario is arguably the most unique Mario-based spinoff of...well, Mario himself, and in my opinion it's probably the aesthetics that knock M&L Mario/Luigi or SMRPG Mario below him since the other two, outside of slight stylistic choices, are essentially just Mario. (Of course, Sakurai could say f**k all and just use Paper Mario as a rep for all the Mario RPGs by blending moves from M&L and SMRPG, which actually sounds pretty cool now that I'm thinking about it). With regards to Captain Toad and Geno, well, I'm sure I don't need to justify Captain Toad. And we all know Sakurai's been wanting Geno for some time now, and he does have a pretty vocal fanbase.

To be honest I find this leak slightly more believable than that other recent 4chan leak simply because I doubt we'll be receiving 11 newcomers. I think when Sakurai said we won't be receiving as many newcomers this time around, he really meant they were scaling back.

Then again, I might want to believe this leak because it means getting Captain Toad, Paper Mario, and a new Paper Mario game.

but what if Foldable is really referring to a Nintendo Labo rep



I wonder if this is why Toad is just Peach's counter in Melee, because fans clearly wanted him there but he was the least popular Mario rep and being Peach's neutral special was a sort of compromise?

I think people are taking the "less newcomers" comment too closely to heart, because we don't know what his frame of reference was for "too many". For all we know, it could just be a few less than Smash 4 when you take into account echo fighters.

And yes, back in Melee when even Diddy and Wario were absent, and then Brawl when those two were just getting added in, I think the counter was a fair compromise. By Smash 4 though, a promotion for Toad was becoming overdue. With Ridley now finally making the leap, it's not fair to keep Toad sidelined.

 

[Arcadenik]

People badmouthing Toad in Smash Ultimate Discussion thread is pissing me off. Some of them are saying Toad doesn't deserve to be in Smash.

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

People badmouthing Toad in Smash Ultimate Discussion thread is pissing me off. Some of them are saying Toad doesn't deserve to be in Smash.

Detractors of a character don't dictate who does or doesn't get into Smash. Only Sakurai and in this game's case, the supporters, determine that. It's probably the same reasoning as Bandana Dee being "just a Goomba wearing a hat" where Toad is seen as a useless NPC or something, right?

I've had to deal with people saying Isaac and Takamaru are just stereotypical swordsmen and that couldn't be further from the truth. You can always plead your case and get more people to agree with your side. Just remember that while it's irritating that they're so firm and confident in their stance being the "right" way to think, they don't decide the roster. Don't let it get to you even if they're not convinced after a debate.

 

[SonicMario]

People badmouthing Toad in Smash Ultimate Discussion thread is pissing me off. Some of them are saying Toad doesn't deserve to be in Smash.

I mean the one person who said (regular one anyway, the one currently used by Peach) Toad would be the most boring character said they wouldn't mind Captain Toad at least. That's gotta account for something.

 

[Arcadenik]

Detractors of a character don't dictate who does or doesn't get into Smash. Only Sakurai and in this game's case, the supporters, determine that. It's probably the same reasoning as Bandana Dee being "just a Goomba wearing a hat" where Toad is seen as a useless NPC or something, right?

Yeah, but they are saying Toad is the most boring character ever and that a generic Mario enemy like a f*****g Scuttlebug is more interesting than Toad.

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

Yeah, but they are saying Toad is the most boring character ever and that a generic Mario enemy like a f*****g Scuttlebug is more interesting than Toad.

Now that's probably a troll. Some people (and/or haters of characters) say ridiculous things to get attention. I don't visit the thread, but did anybody start to talk back against them?