To everyone involved in AL's smash scene

[nice1]

I get it yall *****s is too lazy to work lol. Its just like any fighting game there's always a good character that doesn't hav a too many bad match ups. There's a reason THEY ARE TOP TIER cuz of what they can do.Since u say u got kirby for mk shut that **** up and stop *****ing and play kirby for mk. o and cam since u say I barely won that wanna run by me wat happen n our friendlies. As I recall I was winning majority our matches. As of now if u wanna do somethin bout it com at me $10 3/5 pika vs snake. Since I barely won prove me wrong kid. I see y tha smash community is always talked about from other fighting communites, *****s don't wanna put n work to beat top tier characters. that chick on SC4 has crazy ringouts but u don't see them sayin omg she ringout too easy ban her. But tha cat at evo proved she can be beatin and did that **** not once but twice. Accept that mm or don't say nothin.

 

[Pika_Cam]

Nice1, friendlies are friendlies and don't mean anything. I'm not trying to call you out, although I believe right now you are calling me out. I'm not calling you a bad player, so cool your jets and stop making the MK ban issue so personal.

 

[nice1]

Naw it aint personal u can call friendlies wat u want tha fact is I took majortiy of the games and don't say u aint try or nothin. U can say I barely won tha fact is I took tha game but like i said since I barely won we can go 10 3/5. I don't got no beef but I am callin u out on this mm tho

 

[I SEE YOU]

He Called You Out Cam!!! Oohhhhh ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[theONEjanitor]

l

I really don't see people switching over to mk that dont already main/use mk anymore.

And I disagree about the whole people never learned to beat mk thing, I think people are getting a lot better at the matchup that actually invest sometime into it. Hell, im even starting to see some possibilities luigi has against mk nowadays so that hopefully I can drop snake entirely once I get good enough at the luigi/mk matchup.

Exactly, people *who invest time into it* learn the matchup (which, honestly isn't rocket science, its a matter of breaking bad habits because MK easily punishes every mistake you do).

But the mere fact that over half of this community wants him banned shows me that over half of this community either plays olimar or didn't invest enough time into learning the match up. I mean seriously, people have been calling for a MK ban since about a month after the game came out.

 

[theONEjanitor]

Cam and any one else that thinks Metaknight should be banned because he's "too good".
Explain in detail what is "too good" about him. What are these "safe options" that he has "too many of" so as to break the game. expect me to respond to your points.

Do not bring up the he breaks "the counterpick system" issue until you explain A. When the **** smash became a game focuses around counterpicks B. Why that is essential for a game to be a good competitive game C. Why no other fighting game series ever made has this mysterious "triangle of power" yet they have much stronger/more cohesive/more developed competitive communities than ours. D. Why no other Smash game has this mysterious "triangle of power" (64 Pikachu, Melee Sheik both best characters with no bad matchups), yet both games had thriving competitive communities.

i'm not dealing with the "everyone's switching to MK and for some inexplicable reason that's a bad thing" issue yet, I want to talk about the "he's too good" issue.

 

[nice1]

T1J let's make babies
*waiting for an answer*

 

[Winnar]

People should listen to nice1 because he plays lots of fighter games outside of brawl.

Actually now that I think about it I kind of do too.

Having a best character with no bad matchups is not uncommon in fighter games at all.

But yeah, another reason why it would be good if everyone played only MK is that it would make the few who don't look noble.

And even better, when we win anyway it'll make us so much cooler for it.

Edit - As of now I can confidently say I'm not going to any MK banned tournaments.

Unless it's a low-tier tournament.

 

[Pika_Cam]

Naw it aint personal u can call friendlies wat u want tha fact is I took majortiy of the games and don't say u aint try or nothin. U can say I barely won tha fact is I took tha game but like i said since I barely won we can go 10 3/5. I don't got no beef but I am callin u out on this mm tho

No, I'm not saying I wasn't trying. I can say however that neither of us was under the pressure of a tournament and we were both warming up. Those were the first matches I played at the tournament.

Cam and any one else that thinks Metaknight should be banned because he's "too good".
Explain in detail what is "too good" about him. What are these "safe options" that he has "too many of" so as to break the game. expect me to respond to your points.

Do not bring up the he breaks "the counterpick system" issue until you explain A. When the **** smash became a game focuses around counterpicks B. Why that is essential for a game to be a good competitive game C. Why no other fighting game series ever made has this mysterious "triangle of power" yet they have much stronger/more cohesive/more developed competitive communities than ours. D. Why no other Smash game has this mysterious "triangle of power" (64 Pikachu, Melee Sheik both best characters with no bad matchups), yet both games had thriving competitive communities.

i'm not dealing with the "everyone's switching to MK and for some inexplicable reason that's a bad thing" issue yet, I want to talk about the "he's too good" issue.

Well, I went into some detail earlier, although I don't know if you caught that post. I'll be happy to go into some of his safe options, but first let me reiterate some of the points I made earlier.

1) He has an unusually easy time planking, while still avoiding breaking any edge grab limits. He is also at an advantage on the ledge whereas most characters are at a disadvantage.

2) He breaks edgehogging on stages where he can glide under the bottom and grab the other edge if he misses.

3) His recovery is phenomenal. He has five midair jumps, 2 glides, and all 4 special moves that have excellent recovery potential.

4) He has no bad matchups and no bad stages. Counterpicking is part of brawl whether you'll admit it or not. It's there to balance the set in case one person feels they could do better with a different matchup if they lost the first round. Counterpicking has been part of smash tournaments since the first game. Although precedent in other games may be different than this, we should rely on precedent from our own series first. When a MK goes into a set, that player has a guarantee that they will have at worst an even matchup and will not play on any unfavorable stages. No other character in the game has that luxury.


Now then, the reason I say Metaknight has lots of safe options is because he has tons of virtually lagless high priority moves. He can cancel the lag from his shuttle loop, tornado, and drill rush, which all have lots of priority and lots of knockback where shuttle loop is concerned. He has a super fast and long range down smash. 4 of his aerials are lagless and high priority, where nair has some lag. His down and forward tilt are fast with priority and range for the ftilt. He has glide attacks from the glide and shuttle loop that will knock you back too far to shield grab AND can be comboed into down smash. My point is that MK has an abnormal amount of safe moves that aren't punishable except when the player screws up.

The question isn't whether Metaknight is beatable. Metaknight is obviously beatable as displayed by great players like Ally. The question is whether MK ruins certain aspects of the game enough to ban him. Think about everything in the game that we ban. We ban items. We don't ban items because you can't win with items turned on. We ban items because they detract from what the majority of players believe should be the focus of the game. We ban stages. Just like items, stages can take away from what we believe to be important in the game. We ban stalling. We ban stalling because it takes away from the fighting, which is what we perceive to be the most important aspect of brawl. It takes skill to use items effectively, do well on banned stages, and it even takes skill to stall. It takes skill to use Metaknight at mid and high level of play, but he decreases the quality of the game because he detracts from other aspects we deem important: mindgames, spacing, tech skill, etc. He decreases the importance of these aspects just as items or a funky stage would.

 

[Sandtru27]

i didn't read more than 90 percent of nice1's post but he just owned all you ***ssssssssss

 

[nice1]

so do u accept the mm yay or nay if moneys on the line then we both should play in tip top shape so either accept or not
sandtru- i gots to keep it real lmao.

 

[Pika_Cam]

so do u accept the mm yay or nay if moneys on the line then we both should play in tip top shape so either accept or not
sandtru- i gots to keep it real lmao.

If I see you at a tournament, I'll be more than happy to play you. My ego's not on the line though. I don't care if you're better than me or not.

 

[nice1]

Its not about ego I'm not forcin u to do it. If u want to u want to if not then not.

 

[Winnar]

MK doesn't ruin anything lmao

Just because he can glide under a stage doesn't mean he "breaks edgeguarding"

The same could be said about ROB or Pit or Jiggs or even Charizard for his glide if you really wanted to be stupid. Ability to go under the stage doesn't make a character broken.

Why do I even post here nobody has addressed anything I've said yet.

Edit - Except Sand but you crazay

 

[I SEE YOU]

No, I'm not saying I wasn't trying. I can say however that neither of us was under the pressure of a tournament and we were both warming up. Those were the first matches I played at the tournament.



Well, I went into some detail earlier, although I don't know if you caught that post. I'll be happy to go into some of his safe options, but first let me reiterate some of the points I made earlier.

1) He has an unusually easy time planking, while still avoiding breaking any edge grab limits. He is also at an advantage on the ledge whereas most characters are at a disadvantage.

2) He breaks edgehogging on stages where he can glide under the bottom and grab the other edge if he misses.

3) His recovery is phenomenal. He has five midair jumps, 2 glides, and all 4 special moves that have excellent recovery potential.

4) He has no bad matchups and no bad stages. Counterpicking is part of brawl whether you'll admit it or not. It's there to balance the set in case one person feels they could do better with a different matchup if they lost the first round. Counterpicking has been part of smash tournaments since the first game. Although precedent in other games may be different than this, we should rely on precedent from our own series first. When a MK goes into a set, that player has a guarantee that they will have at worst an even matchup and will not play on any unfavorable stages. No other character in the game has that luxury.


Now then, the reason I say Metaknight has lots of safe options is because he has tons of virtually lagless high priority moves. He can cancel the lag from his shuttle loop, tornado, and drill rush, which all have lots of priority and lots of knockback where shuttle loop is concerned. He has a super fast and long range down smash. 4 of his aerials are lagless and high priority, where nair has some lag. His down and forward tilt are fast with priority and range for the ftilt. He has glide attacks from the glide and shuttle loop that will knock you back too far to shield grab AND can be comboed into down smash. My point is that MK has an abnormal amount of safe moves that aren't punishable except when the player screws up.

The question isn't whether Metaknight is beatable. Metaknight is obviously beatable as displayed by great players like Ally. The question is whether MK ruins certain aspects of the game enough to ban him. Think about everything in the game that we ban. We ban items. We don't ban items because you can't win with items turned on. We ban items because they detract from what the majority of players believe should be the focus of the game. We ban stages. Just like items, stages can take away from what we believe to be important in the game. We ban stalling. We ban stalling because it takes away from the fighting, which is what we perceive to be the most important aspect of brawl. It takes skill to use items effectively, do well on banned stages, and it even takes skill to stall. It takes skill to use Metaknight at mid and high level of play, but he decreases the quality of the game because he detracts from other aspects we deem important: mindgames, spacing, tech skill, etc. He decreases the importance of these aspects just as items or a funky stage would.

This was a thought out and pretty KRUNK rebuttal

 

[Winnar]

Well, I went into some detail earlier, although I don't know if you caught that post. I'll be happy to go into some of his safe options, but first let me reiterate some of the points I made earlier.

1) He has an unusually easy time planking, while still avoiding breaking any edge grab limits. He is also at an advantage on the ledge whereas most characters are at a disadvantage.

Planking is banned at most tournaments (all AL tournaments I've been to). Besides, he's not the only character who can plank well. Marth, Jiggs, even Falcon can plank pretty well.

Argument nullified.

2) He breaks edgehogging on stages where he can glide under the bottom and grab the other edge if he misses.

Addressed already, that doesn't "break" edgeguarding because he's not the only character who can do that. In fact there are quite a few characters that can go under the stage if they're having troubles getting edgeguarded.

Argument nullified.

3) His recovery is phenomenal. He has five midair jumps, 2 glides, and all 4 special moves that have excellent recovery potential.

This has no bearing on whether or not he's a "broken" or bannable character. It just means that MK will not likely be gimped and that he'll probably be getting back on stage any time he's off. He's still limited in his recovery, just not as much as say Ganon. Anyone who has ever played a good Samus, Peach, or Jiggs knows that this isn't really a novel concept to smash bros.

Argument nullified.

4) He has no bad matchups and no bad stages. Counterpicking is part of brawl whether you'll admit it or not. It's there to balance the set in case one person feels they could do better with a different matchup if they lost the first round. Counterpicking has been part of smash tournaments since the first game. Although precedent in other games may be different than this, we should rely on precedent from our own series first. When a MK goes into a set, that player has a guarantee that they will have at worst an even matchup and will not play on any unfavorable stages. No other character in the game has that luxury.

This is the only legitimate point you've brought up so far. In smash bros history it's not like this is a first. Melee Sheik was close to MK in this regard, but 64 Pikachu surpasses MK completely. You want smash bros. precedent, you got it.

Besides, you're putting way too much weight into character matchups than you should. At the level of competition we're talking about character matchups kind of melt away in the face of player matchups.

Argument nullified.

Now then, the reason I say Metaknight has lots of safe options is because he has tons of virtually lagless high priority moves. He can cancel the lag from his shuttle loop, tornado, and drill rush, which all have lots of priority and lots of knockback where shuttle loop is concerned. He has a super fast and long range down smash. 4 of his aerials are lagless and high priority, where nair has some lag. His down and forward tilt are fast with priority and range for the ftilt. He has glide attacks from the glide and shuttle loop that will knock you back too far to shield grab AND can be comboed into down smash. My point is that MK has an abnormal amount of safe moves that aren't punishable except when the player screws up.

"Cancelling" lag on side b is extremely situational and also too risky for any MK to ever use it. Not to mention in order to cancel the lag you have to be in a very specific location. Even if it's "virtually lagless" if you know where they're going to be at the end of it you can punish them very easily, which completely defeats the purpose.

And mach tornado you can reduce lag on, but it still has lag.

Actually the only move that is practical to reduce lag of his specials is the shuttle loop.

Argument nullified.

The question isn't whether Metaknight is beatable. Metaknight is obviously beatable as displayed by great players like Ally. The question is whether MK ruins certain aspects of the game enough to ban him. Think about everything in the game that we ban. We ban items. We don't ban items because you can't win with items turned on. We ban items because they detract from what the majority of players believe should be the focus of the game. We ban stages. Just like items, stages can take away from what we believe to be important in the game. We ban stalling. We ban stalling because it takes away from the fighting, which is what we perceive to be the most important aspect of brawl. It takes skill to use items effectively, do well on banned stages, and it even takes skill to stall. It takes skill to use Metaknight at mid and high level of play, but he decreases the quality of the game because he detracts from other aspects we deem important: mindgames, spacing, tech skill, etc. He decreases the importance of these aspects just as items or a funky stage would.

You might honestly believe that, but it only serves to make you look inexperienced in high level play.

All that other stuff about banning items and stages to make the game playable doesn't apply to Metaknight.

At all. The difference between banning hammers and banning metaknight should be painfully obvious to anyone who plays smash at a competitive level. Trying to make that argument comparing the two basically subverts the quality of every other thing you said on the subject because of how obviously wrong that comparison is.

Argument nullified.

...

I just dismantled the entire pro-ban MK argument in 20 minutes.

Congratulations.

 

[TiekoForever]

Right, these people quickly decide that its the character, its very true, and they have no right idea to learn any good way to play. I use snake and no matter what the match up, i always show good results. The results of no bull****, actual skill.

 

[Pika_Cam]

Planking is banned at most tournaments (all AL tournaments I've been to). Besides, he's not the only character who can plank well. Marth, Jiggs, even Falcon can plank pretty well.

Argument nullified.


Addressed already, that doesn't "break" edgeguarding because he's not the only character who can do that. In fact there are quite a few characters that can go under the stage if they're having troubles getting edgeguarded.

Argument nullified.


This has no bearing on whether or not he's a "broken" or bannable character. It just means that MK will not likely be gimped and that he'll probably be getting back on stage any time he's off. He's still limited in his recovery, just not as much as say Ganon. Anyone who has ever played a good Samus, Peach, or Jiggs knows that this isn't really a novel concept to smash bros.

Argument nullified.


This is the only legitimate point you've brought up so far. In smash bros history it's not like this is a first. Melee Sheik was close to MK in this regard, but 64 Pikachu surpasses MK completely. You want smash bros. precedent, you got it.

Besides, you're putting way too much weight into character matchups than you should. At the level of competition we're talking about character matchups kind of melt away in the face of player matchups.

Argument nullified.


"Cancelling" lag on side b is extremely situational and also too risky for any MK to ever use it. Not to mention in order to cancel the lag you have to be in a very specific location. Even if it's "virtually lagless" if you know where they're going to be at the end of it you can punish them very easily, which completely defeats the purpose.

And mach tornado you can reduce lag on, but it still has lag.

Actually the only move that is practical to reduce lag of his specials is the shuttle loop.

Argument nullified.


You might honestly believe that, but it only serves to make you look inexperienced in high level play.

All that other stuff about banning items and stages to make the game playable doesn't apply to Metaknight.

At all. The difference between banning hammers and banning metaknight should be painfully obvious to anyone who plays smash at a competitive level. Trying to make that argument comparing the two basically subverts the quality of every other thing you said on the subject because of how obviously wrong that comparison is.

Argument nullified.

...

I just dismantled the entire pro-ban MK argument in 20 minutes.

Congratulations.

Just because you say "Argument Nullified" doesn't make it so.

Metaknight can plank better than any other character in the game. I don't know how you can deny that. He can easily avoid projectiles being sent at him on the ledge (fireballs, tjolts, etc.) and has a very high priority, high knockback move to keep grabbing the ledge (shuttle loop). Should I even mention that shuttle loop will stage spike you? Large tournaments don't always have rules against planking like our local AL tournaments. They may have an edge grab rule specifically put in place because of lame MK users, but even then some Metaknights have been able to plank while not going over the limit.


You are misreading my post. I said "edgeHOGGING." If MK gets edgehogged, he can go under the stage to the other edge much much easier than Pit or Charizard. We are talking about missing the ledge with up B. Charizard's up B is not a glide, nor is Pit's. Besides, Pit can be hit once and die after he uses his up B.


I mention all his recovery options not as a reason alone to ban him, but another trait added to a character that has too many good traits as it is.


Character MUs DO NOT melt away at high level play. They are extremely important to know in order to win the match, especially at high level play. Tell me you think Anther doesn't know Pika's matchup against Snake when he fights Ultimate Razer (or vice versa).


If you don't believe you can cancel the lag on MK's specials, then watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDCG6NF10oU


As far as items go, let's say we are talking about food set on very low. Tell me that food set on low will affect the outcome dramatically between two players. Then, tell me that items don't take skill to use. Tell me stalling doesn't take skill to perform. Tell me it doesn't take skill to do well on some of the banned stages. All of these things do take skill, so why do we ban them for competitive play? We ban them, as I said before, because it detracts from the other aspects we hold more valuable: spacing, mindgames, combos, etc. He may take skill to use, but he breaks the game enough to detract from other aspects we find enjoyable.

 

[Winnar]

The planking argument was nullified because planking is banned at almost all tournaments nationwide. Why would that be considered a valid argument in determining MK's strengths over other members of the cast when it's not even an option in competitive play anyway?

I've seen the video before, just because fiction cancels a few side b's back to back on battlefield doesn't mean that it's a useful technique. The whole movement is basically scripted, so when your opponent figures out the path you're going to take then why would there be any problem punishing it?

Also the character matchups thing being all/most important is a misconception that I have no way of proving to you. I don't know how I would even start.

Also also it's not impossible for most characters to double edgehog MK and it's more likely anyway that a good MK wouldn't recover with up b if he thought he'd be edgehogged.

And once again you should drop the items argument, as you don't seem to understand the rationale that went into banning items in the first place.

My posts are finally being addressed/acknowledged, but it still feels like they aren't being read.

Edit - P.S. My little brother (age 13) just pointed out to me that Brown Scourge u-tilting through mach tornado backwards pretty much nullifies any ban-MK argument.

Any. Ban-MK. Argument.

 

[_Keno_]

I honestly don't think any of your counter-points were better than his points, Winnar. Cept the comparison of items and MK.

 

[Pika_Cam]

The planking argument was nullified because planking is banned at almost all tournaments nationwide. Why would that be considered a valid argument in determining MK's strengths over other members of the cast when it's not even an option in competitive play anyway?

I've seen the video before, just because fiction cancels a few side b's back to back on battlefield doesn't mean that it's a useful technique. The whole movement is basically scripted, so when your opponent figures out the path you're going to take then why would there be any problem punishing it?

Also the character matchups thing being all/most important is a misconception that I have no way of proving to you. I don't know how I would even start.

Also also it's not impossible for most characters to double edgehog MK and it's more likely anyway that a good MK wouldn't recover with up b if he thought he'd be edgehogged.

And once again you should drop the items argument, as you don't seem to understand the rationale that went into banning items in the first place.

My posts are finally being addressed/acknowledged, but it still feels like they aren't being read.

Edit - P.S. My little brother (age 13) just pointed out to me that Brown Scourge u-tilting through mach tornado backwards pretty much nullifies any ban-MK argument.

Any. Ban-MK. Argument.

I think most of my arguments still stand without me needing to add anything. I will address items though.

This is why items were banned: I'm talking about items that have very little impact on the game like food. They were banned because we don't like them. It's not because they are random or because they don't take skill. I don't think it's wrong at all to say they were banned because it decreases the importance of other aspects of the game, the aspects we deem more important like mindgames, tech skill, spacing, combos, etc.

Your posts are being acknowledged but not being read? Wow, that's hilarious. Your logic must be so flawless that anyone who disagrees with you just doesn't understand your arguments. Brilliant.

 

[Sandtru27]

wtf are people reading what you guys are posting

keep things short

it makes it more appealing

it's good for when you get a "job"

 

[Winnar]

Your posts are being acknowledged but not being read? Wow, that's hilarious. Your logic must be so flawless that anyone who disagrees with you just doesn't understand your arguments. Brilliant.

Is it such a stretch to say that there's a difference between reading something and considering something?

Where is this defensive attitude coming from, anyway? I thought we were debating, not arguing. I'm trying to supply an intelligent counter-argument to an intelligent argument.

Also please don't ever superimpose egotism on what I say again. If you have any respect for me at all you'll not do that, as I go very far out of my way to keep arguments objective and respect for others at its highest.

 

[Pika_Cam]

Is it such a stretch to say that there's a difference between reading something and considering something?

Where is this defensive attitude coming from, anyway? I thought we were debating, not arguing. I'm trying to supply an intelligent counter-argument to an intelligent argument.

Also please don't ever superimpose egotism on what I say again. If you have any respect for me at all you'll not do that, as I go very far out of my way to keep arguments objective and respect for others at its highest.

Your arguments imply not necessarily egotism, but definitely a lack of respect for other points of view, whether you realize it or not. For example, you cited that your 13-year-old brother "understands" that MK shouldn't be banned. This implies that the answer is obvious and that pro-ban players are either silly or not too bright.


Or when you said this:
"The same could be said about ROB or Pit or Jiggs or even Charizard for his glide if you really wanted to be stupid."

Ok, so if I really want to be stupid, I'll make the arguments I was making?


"MK doesn't ruin anything lmao"

Lmao-ing at another person's argument implies that you have no respect for it.


Or how about when you kept saying "argument nullified"? You think that was disrespectful or at least arrogant?


Or how about this:
"I just dismantled the entire pro-ban MK argument in 20 minutes."

Was that a necessary statement? Are you debating when you say that or simply making a rude comment about how little value you give to pro-ban arguments?

I'm not superimposing anything, Winnar. Your words speak for themselves.


And no, it's not a stretch to say there's a difference. It is funny though that you get mad at me for "assuming" you are being disrespectful, and yet you assume that I am narrow minded and don't even take your arguments into consideration. Why is that? The only evidence you have of that is that I haven't switched sides. Therefore, you believe your arguments are strong enough that anyone who doesn't switch sides from them either hasn't considered them or doesn't understand them. Neither of which is true in my case. I have considered all of your arguments, although only a few of them have held much water with me. I've considered quite a bit what you said about Pikachu in N64. The most convincing argument I've heard is that if we ban Metaknight in AL but not in the nation, we will be handicapping our own players when they play OoS. I agree. I think if MK is not banned nationwide, then we should not ban him here.

 

[Sandtru27]

pikacam.... go cry more jesus....

like wow

 

[Pika_Cam]

pikacam.... go cry more jesus....

like wow

Umm... what?

 

[Winnar]

Almost every one of those things was said to be humorous. Charizard's glide to go under the stage is stupid because it's slow, MK "ruining" something seems like such an exaggeration that it seemed funny to me, the argument nullified thing wasn't necessary but it wasn't disrespectful and it felt **** good. It was supposed to only be for the first one, but then as I started thinking about it I challenged myself to come up with legitimate reasons for why the other arguments could be nullified as well. Apparently this is a **** move?

And the part about my brother was just more injected humor which you read way too much into. He literally walked up to me, asked what I was posting about, then he made a joke about scourge and his epic MK destruction, and walked away. I edited it in and then boom suddenly that makes me an ******* who calls people

Also the reason why I said it feels like my arguments aren't being considered is because you dismissed all of my arguments without providing any justification at all other than "I think most of my arguments still stand without me needing to add anything."

What am I to think when I see you extrapolate, "...that anyone who disagrees with you just doesn't understand your arguments. Brilliant," from "My posts are finally being addressed/acknowledged, but it still feels like they aren't being read."

You are superimposing malintentions and egotistic overtones onto meaningless filler jokes.

How can you say you're considering my arguments when the only things I've said you HAVEN'T addressed are my points regarding why we shouldn't ban MK?

Edit - You know what? Forget it. I'm done talking about this.

 

[KOkingpin]

lol why are you guys even trying. Everything that can be said has already been said for both sides. Pro-Ban ***** anti-ban's Essay. If you went through the trouble to read both you would notice there are a multitude of reasons why he should be banned and the anti-ban group runs out of steam so quickly that they resort to using the same statistics as Pro-Ban when it comes to Winning tournaments and what not. For the most part the community wants him gone and if the community has their way he will be gone.

I agree with the pro-ban statement completely. that being said i also dont care about such a horrible game when i have Brawl+ sitting in front of me

 

[Pika_Cam]

How can you say you're considering my arguments when the only things I've said you HAVEN'T addressed are my points regarding why we shouldn't ban MK?

Because every point you made was a reiteration of something you said before or not even an argument at all. For instance, you said that the character matchups is a misconception that you don't know how to prove to me. I don't think that something needs a response if it really doesn't add any new points. Another thing you said regarded planking where I've already stated previously that large tournaments don't officially ban planking, but they set an edge grab limit. I could say it again, but it would bring nothing new to the topic. You said the drill rush lag cancelling is scripted, therefore can be punished. I don't see why the Metaknight couldn't easily do another drill rush, shuttle loop, do an aerial, etc to avoid getting punished.

Is there something you feel I have not addressed? I don't have an answer for the 64 Pikachu argument, although I will say that I know very little about the matchups in Smash 64. I know more about Melee and Brawl.

EDIT: Yeah, KO, I did not completely decide to be Pro-Ban until I read all of their arguments in that essay. It was very well argued.

 

[KOkingpin]

Because every point you made was a reiteration of something you said before or not even an argument at all. For instance, you said that the character matchups is a misconception that you don't know how to prove to me. I don't think that something needs a response if it really doesn't add any new points. Another thing you said regarded planking where I've already stated previously that large tournaments don't officially ban planking, but they set an edge grab limit. I could say it again, but it would bring nothing new to the topic. You said the drill rush lag cancelling is scripted, therefore can be punished. I don't see why the Metaknight couldn't easily do another drill rush, shuttle loop, do an aerial, etc to avoid getting punished.

Is there something you feel I have not addressed? I don't have an answer for the 64 Pikachu argument, although I will say that I know very little about the matchups in Smash 64. I know more about Melee and Brawl.

EDIT: Yes, KO, I did not completely decide to be Pro-Ban until I read all of their arguments in that essay.

I dont see why people use the Pika in 64 as an arguement because it doesnt matter what character to pick against Isiah. He will beat your Pika with Link. Kidding aside. Smash 64 was not really known to be competitive till after Melee was out and by then pretty much phased out. The biggest difference between the two characters from different generations is that MK has physics that dont adhear to the physics of the game. No character should have as many Character specific things. He meets all of the Smash series Ban-able offenses.

 

[Winnar]

The counter for the 64 argument is that it's an old game and there are so few tournaments that it doesn't matter.

Just an FYI

Also just because a move is virtually lagless does not mean it's punishable. Think about it.

And also you're right, I didn't actually have many anti-ban MK arguments because I didn't need to or didn't think I needed to.

I dismantled all the pro-ban arguments pretty effectively to see what the response would be. Backlash, apparently.

But whatever, KO's right this is useless.

 

[munkus beaver]

I agree with the pro-ban statement completely. that being said i also dont care about such a horrible game when i have Brawl+ sitting in front of me

You are wasting a lot of effort for something you don't care about.

 

[munkus beaver]

And for all the complaining about MK and how easy he is to pick up, I still haven't seen anyone at an AL tourney effectively pick up MK as a secondary. I've seen a lot of people have a low/mid-tier main and use snake as a secondary.

It's laughable that some of you are so serious about the banning MK movement when it won't affect how well you do in tourneys. It will just hinder those of us who stuck with MK for a long time because we enjoyed the character.

This isn't New Jersey, clean yo'self up son.

 

[Pika_Cam]

And for all the complaining about MK and how easy he is to pick up, I still haven't seen anyone at an AL tourney effectively pick up MK as a secondary. I've seen a lot of people have a low/mid-tier main and use snake as a secondary.

It's laughable that some of you are so serious about the banning MK movement when it won't affect how well you do in tourneys. It will just hinder those of us who stuck with MK for a long time because we enjoyed the character.

This isn't New Jersey, clean yo'self up son.

We're lucky to not live in a Metaknight heavy region. Like I said before, I want them to ban him everywhere, else I don't want him banned in AL. I don't want to handicap the players in this state for when the travel OOS and have to play the matchup.

 

[munkus beaver]

The snake paradox still counters any metaknight ban argument.

 

[Sandtru27]

brawl+ is GARBAGE

 

[munkus beaver]

I'd post a long argument too but I feel that this thread is more for mental masturbation than actual convincing of sides.

 

[Will_]

I'd post a long argument too but I feel that this thread is more for mental masturbation than actual convincing of sides.

That's like...every internet argument in existence.

One thing I don't understand is why the mk ban issue is heating up now. If anything, genesis results should have cooled it down.

 

[munkus beaver]

If anything, genesis results should have cooled it down.

Snake: So that's an average day for you then?
MK: No doubt.
Snake: You whirlwind into an uptilt and die?
MK: HAIL yeah.
Snake: And I think you said something there about sucking sheik's ****
MK: Nope.
Snake: Actually, I'm pretty sure you did.
MK: Nah, that ain't me.
Snake: Ok well. This has been really eye opening for me.
MK: I'm tha bauss.
Snake: Yeah, I know, you said that a hundred times.
MK: I'm the bauss.
Snake: This is Snake, I'm done here.

 

[Winnar]

I'd post a long argument too but I feel that this thread is more for mental masturbation than actual convincing of sides.

Why couldn't you have been here like yesterday before I started posting