To clear things up

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Zero ain't on armada level wacko

 

[Heartstring]

lol, this is what I mean about the Pro drama queens. They bring up how close Pro came to beating Armada, yet since the Armada set I havent seen anyone mention that in the same tournament he lost to Leffen and proceeded to john his hands off about how badly he was playing that tournament. They bring up how poorly rolex does vs m2k, but wont mention m2k's experience against snake vs Armadas. Theyll bring up how M2K was double eliminated in PM by Armada, but keep hush that Armada only entered 1 event while m2k entered 3 and performed subpar in everything based on his results up to that point.

Kudos to Pros accomplishments, but the arguments can't be taken seriously and are kinda funny.

MY end of the argument wasn't even meant to be serious, it was meant to highlight how stupid-sounding the inverse argument was. Guess that got missed too. alas

 

[Matty89]

All this talk about "even if Rolex loses he is still the better player because of his results and this just proving who is better at a Snake ditto match" is nonsense. This is a match about one thing. Who is the better Snake player. If Rolex gets beat, he is not the better snake period. It's his main and Professor Pro's main. All other tournament results are out of context of the actual match. It is Snake vs Snake. Not who's the better player based on results of one time Rolex lost to M2K or Pro took Armada the extra mile. When it comes time and the two of them sit down results of who they beat and who they lost to will not matter at all. Just one result matters, the winner.
#Destruction

 

[ELI-mination]

Did this guy just say dittos determine the better player

 

[Matty89]

*face palm* lets try this another way...Prof Pro gonna win regardless of tournament results. No contest.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Did this guy just say dittos determine the better player

BEST
Correct yourself

 

[ELI-mination]

Lol you should facepalm yourself based on that "logic" you posted.
Like even if I strongly believed Professor Pro was better (which is possible) and it was not even close, I still wouldn't think dittos mattered that much.
I think they're both amazing and I think Rolex is extremely underrated because he's not as technical, and Professor Pro MIGHT be better but simply has yet to prove it. I will definitely admit Professor Pro is better if he outplaces Rolex at SKTAR and beats him in the MM, and has a winning record against lots of people at that event. But right now, its just speculation. Rolex currently has better results.

Like, sure you don't have access to a lot of tournaments but that doesn't excuse you from the rule. You might be better but you definitely haven't proven it yet, and you also might NOT be better.
This is all just trash talk right now.
CURRENTLY, Rolex is the best Snake until proven otherwise, that's just objectively true based on tournament results.

Although, Professor Pro could be better, and his results recently hold a LOT of ground considering he got 2nd to Armada multiple times and played amazingly.

Dittos mean jack **** though. Admit this fact.

*FACEPALM*

 

[Praxis]

Can we stop talking about which player that can't win a national is better than which other player that can't win a national?

Gosh, I thought the Brawl Peach boards were bad about this dramatic crap.

 

[GeZ]

Eli with the knowledge.

An isolated matchup (including mirrors) does not define a better player. You have to do it by record because individual matchups almost always favor one character. If, somehow, the mirror is 50:50, it's still not an accurate gauge of which player is best, and I'll eat my cowl.

 

[RvlvRBobcat]

I have no paypal, but I am willing to make a bet for money if anyone is going there from the UK.
I have found a job. XD

 

[Heartstring]

Eli with the knowledge.

An isolated matchup (including mirrors) does not define a better player. You have to do it by record because individual matchups almost always favor one character. If, somehow, the mirror is 50:50, it's still not an accurate gauge of which player is best, and I'll eat my cowl.

I agree that judging who is better off a single matchup is not a good way to do it

But I'm really struggling to figure out how a mirror could be anything BUT a 50:50 matchup

 

[Professor Pro]

I have no paypal, but I am willing to make a bet for money if anyone is going there from the UK.
I have found a job. XD

Well if you're betting on Rolex then this thread would be the best place to bet.
http://smashboards.com/threads/rolex-vs-prof-sidebet-thread.349707/page-2#post-16677165

I agree that judging who is better off a single matchup is not a good way to do it

But I'm really struggling to figure out how a mirror could be anything BUT a 50:50 matchup

Port priority in a Snake ditto will prob change it from being exactly 50:50 tbh lol.

 

[Professor Pro]

Also I never understand this notion where people seem to imply dittos don't mean anything or are even less important then any other MU with that character.
Am I allowed to say that in Melee if I lose to another Fox main in a ditto that it doesn't matter because it's a ditto?

It's still a Match Up at the end of the day, and the player who performs better will win as in EVERY OTHER MU.

 

[Darkshooter]

Also I never understand this notion where people seem to imply dittos don't mean anything or are even less important then any other MU with that character.
Am I allowed to say that in Melee if I lose to another Fox main in a ditto that it doesn't matter because it's a ditto?

It's still a Match Up at the end of the day, and the player who performs better will win as in EVERY OTHER MU.

Exactly Prof!

Whoever's got the better Snake when it comes to dittos is the better player generally.

 

[ELI-mination]

^ Not even a little bit true.

Dittos practically don't mean much because it's just one matchup out of what, 30-something?
And it's also how you adapt to the player you're fighting against, too. For example, you each play a top player and you average differently against them in terms of wins/losses/stocks/etc.

There's a lot more that factors into who the better player is, which is kind of what you conceded there on some level anyway, so this assertion that a ditto will determine the better player is as false as can be, and you know it. You just want a ditto to mean a lot because if you win, you feel like you can definitively say the debates are over you're the better Snake. Maybe you're really good at Snake dittos, idk.

And if you say that others want the ditto not to mean anything just because if Rolex loses, they can latch onto the false idea that he might be the best Snake still, then its pretty telling that you want to simplify Snake skill in terms of a Snake ditto between the top 2 Snakes. And if you do, fine. Just know that you're deluding yourself.

What's gonna happen if you lose the ditto? Are you gonna say that Rolex is 100% the better Snake? What if you SD twice in the ditto? What are you factoring in? Just the result of the ditto? Okay, well if that's all you need in order to consider who the best Snake is, go for it.

What if 1 player wins the ditto but places higher than the other player? What if 1 player beats m2k and the other loses to m2k, but the one who lost to m2k wins the Snake ditto?

Do you see what I'm getting at?

#facepalm

 

[Professor Pro]

I didn't even mention Rolex or me in my statement, I was specifically addressing the mentality of dittos (specifically dittos) meaning less than any other MU on it's own (<<<< key part)

example -
Snake vs DK - Matters
Marth vs Ness - Matters
Lucas vs Lucas - It's a ditto, it doesn't matter

When people say or imply, 'It's a ditto it doesn't matter' it doesn't make sense, because it's still a MU.

I already understand that there are other factors which make a better player and most of what you were saying I agree with, it was literally just the point or implication of dittos don't really matter which I don't agree with.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Nobody is saying "dittos don't matter"

They're saying "dittos don't mean EVERYTHING"

 

[9bit]

Yeah my whole stance on this thing is that this money match is going to answer only one question: who is better at Snake dittos. Not who is the better Snake. Who places higher in the bracket is the more interesting result to me.

I love watching both these players, they're very exciting for different reasons. I am very hype for SKTAR for a lot of reasons, and this whole overhyped overdramatized overtrashtalked Snake ditto is one of them.

I don't necessarily care who wins, I'm just happy to watch some really high level 20XX meta Snake play.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

If I didn't truly believe that these two really don't like each other, I'd think this was "overdramatized" and "overtrashtalked" too. But I really do think that Rolex and Pro are both extremely bitter that there are people who don't believe they are the #1 PM Snake. This **** is real. Get hype.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Stop this yapping about dittos, jeez. We're all smart people and know what it means if one beats the other, doesn't mean we can't get hype over it.

I for one plan to john very adamantly about how winning the Snake ditto proves nothing if Rolex wins but undoubtedly makes Prof superior if he does. #howitworks

 

[Professor Pro]

So I took a set off of AR-mada at a UK tournament in Winners Finals 3-1 being the first person in the world to actually take a set off of him (could of won 3-0 if I didn't mess up, and yes it got recorded) but he beat me in Grand Finals first set 3-2, second set 3-1.

But I guess I'm still a nobody who has no results and hasn't beat anyone important

 

[tauKhan]

When will it be uploaded? I want to see it. And as Twitch chats tell you, ofc a win over rustmada means nothing

 

[Professor Pro]

When will it be uploaded? I want to see it.

I will post it in this thread when it is uploaded. It should be uploaded today, I am not the person with the footage though but I will pest the person who has it to upload lol.

 

[RvlvRBobcat]

"But I guess I'm still a nobody who has no results and hasn't beat anyone important" - Professor Pro 2014

Yes I will use this out of context.

 

[Cassio]

lol, congrats but it doesnt change my personal opinion. In the amount of sets hes played in the US you were able to win once. Winning once is a good accomplishment, but bragging about being his first loss loses meaning when you attach the record and tournament result.

 

[Professor Pro]

lol, congrats but it doesnt change my personal opinion. In the amount of sets hes played in the US you were able to win once. Winning once is a good accomplishment, but bragging about being his first loss loses meaning when you attach the record and tournament result.

I don't even know/remember who you are or what your opinion is to want to change it lol

 

[Cassio]

lol, why would you quote a post that clearly conveys an opinion then state you don't know what that opinion is? Either way, you seemed to understand enough to respond with salty sarcasm. I was just stating some hard truths.

 

[batistabus]

It should be uploaded today.

*today becomes yesterday*

 

[tauKhan]

Somebody get it uploaded already
I would totally brag the hell out of it if I took a set from Armada. Just saying.

 

[FlashingFire]

lol, congrats but it doesnt change my personal opinion. In the amount of sets hes played in the US you were able to win once. Winning once is a good accomplishment, but bragging about being his first loss loses meaning when you attach the record and tournament result.

He stated that he won a set against Armada and then gave him credit for bringing it back in the next two sets. Nothing wrong with acknowledging a formidable opponent. Besides, his record against Armada in PM is now better than that of anyone else in the world.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

If we had sth like a ELO rating system for Project M that set would give Prof probably as much as Armada took off him all other sets :D

 

[Professor Pro]

lol, why would you quote a post that clearly conveys an opinion then state you don't know what that opinion is? Either way, you seemed to understand enough to respond with salty sarcasm. I was just stating some hard truths.

No...I literally mean I don't know what your opinion is...
The way you stated it was as if you had an existing opinion before my post which was known to others and that it doesn't change it...and I was saying I don't even remember who you are or what your opinion is to even want to change it.

Basically in your next post if you would have stated your opinion then it would of made things easier.

 

[Heartstring]

lol, congrats but it doesnt change my personal opinion. In the amount of sets hes played in the US you were able to win once. Winning once is a good accomplishment, but bragging about being his first loss loses meaning when you attach the record and tournament result.

 

[CraigUK37]

Winners finals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pTXx7ns864

Grand Finals are not up as of right now. Might update this post with it if it gets uploaded before anyone else posts it.

 

[EIiitti]

Professor Pro beating Armada 3-1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pTXx7ns864

 

[Jolteon]

Professor Pro's Pit friend is really talented, I hope they record more friendlies.

 

[Empyrean]

****, I stopped getting alerts from this thread 2 weeks ago, and it appears I missed all the juicy trash talk.

Gratz to Prof beating Armada in a set. Need to check that **** out as soon as I can. And here I was worried that all the hype had died down. I can't wait for the MM, let alone Sktar in general. Good luck to both players, I hope to see some cool stuff.

Here's hoping Zero makes a "To clear things up" thread soon.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I can't see zero doing that. He seems pretty humble.

 

[Empyrean]

I can't see zero doing that. He seems pretty humble.

Ik, was just joking the last part. I do hope he faces Armada soon though.

 

[Mischief]

If your character has one move that can allow you to cover 90% of all other characters options, both on stage on on ledge, you are dealing with something that's a little bit stupid.