To clear things up

[GeZ]

If your character has one move that can allow you to cover 90% of all other characters options, both on stage on on ledge, you are dealing with something that's a little bit stupid.

What the hell are you talking about?

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

What the hell are you talking about?

What I casually ask myself when I scroll smashboards.

 

[GeZ]

The best mixup.

 

[Mischief]

I actually meant to post that on a pit discussion thread. Serves me right for having too many tabs open lol

 

[Heartstring]

He makes a point though for sure, watching Prof vs. Armada in numerous different sets, it's proof that Snake has absolutely no answer for Pit's arrows offstage, and doesn't really have one onstage outside of powershields. I think they need juuusst a little bit of nerfing

 

[CraigUK37]

He makes a point though for sure, watching Prof vs. Armada in numerous different sets, it's proof that Snake has absolutely no answer for Pit's arrows offstage, and doesn't really have one onstage outside of powershields. I think they need juuusst a little bit of nerfing

Can't remember for sure, but it seemed like when he was recovering low, cipher blocked the arrows. But literally thats it.

 

[Heartstring]

Can't remember for sure, but it seemed like when he was recovering low, cipher blocked the arrows. But literally thats it.

That is correct, the cipher got in the way, but he has to go so low that he needs to C4 to get back...which gets him arrowed

 

[Risky]

The counterplay for most projectiles is "don't get hit". They can be crouch canceled and also ducked which he does numerous times. Offstage Snake is extremely vulnerable to... everything. It's delicate, since reducing knockback/hitstun will make comboing with them extremely difficult for Pit.

I admit I hate watching people get arrowed 5-6 times in a row and getting juggled with literally no counterplay though.

 

[Heartstring]

The counterplay for most projectiles is "don't get hit". They can be crouch canceled and also ducked which he does numerous times. Offstage Snake is extremely vulnerable to... everything. It's delicate, since reducing knockback/hitstun will make comboing with them extremely difficult for Pit.

I admit I hate watching people get arrowed 5-6 times in a row and getting juggled with literally no counterplay though.

Perhaps increasing cooldown? or do the ivysaur thing and make it so they can still move and such at the same speed, but arrows take a a slightly longer period of time to refresh. that way extending combo's with arrows still works fine, but we don't get scenarios where someone is juggled with only arrows

Anyway, that's for a different thread. back to the main topic:

PROF BEAT ARMADA IN TURNAMENT
PROF>ARMADA>MEW2KING>ROLEX
CHECKMATE 'MURRICANS

 

[Malkasaur]

I don't know much about Snake in PM. However, I have seen both Rolex and Prof play. And judging from gameplay, I'd say hands down Rolex is gonna get wrecked. I think Prof's Snake is much faster and better than Rolex's. I remember the first time I saw Rolex's Snake. I thought, "Oh my god that snake is sexy.". Then I saw Prof's. Mind was litterally blown. Well that's just my opinion. Now excuse me while I read the rest of this thread.

 

[Paradoxium]

Why are people saying that this wont determine who the best snake is? Like I thought pride was on the line, meaning whoever loses has to acknowledge that the other has the superior Snake. You guys are sucking the hype out of this.

 

[CraigUK37]

Why are people saying that this wont determine who the best snake is? Like I thought pride was on the line, meaning whoever loses has to acknowledge that the other has the superior Snake. You guys are sucking the hype out of this.

It is more than that, as the Prof keeps doing well and Rolex fanboys realise that they backed the wrong snake, they push back the criteria of best snake. Prof needed results, he got results, prof needed to beat someone of note, he beat the most note-worthy. Now dittos dont determine who is best. So even beating rolex isnt enough to satisfy these guys.

It is becoming a joke actually.

 

[Risky]

Everything is subjective, there are infinite variables in every match to consider. It doesn't matter who wins it only means they are better at that matchup at that time and the Red Bull they drank before the match game them an advantage.

 

[Empyrean]

Lmao, people making the weirdest of arguments trying to defend who the better player is. I couldn't care less. I'm just here for some hype as ****, entertaining matches. And the inevitable salt.

 

[FlashingFire]

As a Prof backer with nothing to lose and little chance of losing it, this whole thread is quite entertaining.

 

[Paradoxium]

Everything is subjective, there are infinite variables in every match to consider. It doesn't matter who wins it only means they are better at that matchup at that time and the Red Bull they drank before the match game them an advantage.

And that is why pride is on the line, they are doing this to prove who the better snake is. They are doing this to settle the score. Everyone has to stop chickening out and trying to make it seem like this match won't mean anything. Bunch of goofs. A ditto is the same as like every other match up, actually I think it is more important. Because in a ditto it is completely fair. So it is truely a test of player skill. So stop making Pre johns and just accept the mm as it is, the contest to see who the better snake is.

And I can take the "infinite variables" argument to make anyone sound like the best smash player.

I can't believe people are trying to argue that whoever wins in a completely balanced scenario isn't the better player. Making up these stupid excuses as to why a win isnt legit is called Johning.

 

[MonkUnit]

so.. where are all the rolex supporters, lol

 

[Strong Badam]

Actually a Snake ditto is one of the few dittos that is inherently unfair. Port Priority matters most in a Snake ditto, so whoever has Port 4 is at an advantage.

 

[Paradoxium]

Actually a Snake ditto is one of the few dittos that is inherently unfair. Port Priority matters most in a Snake ditto, so whoever has Port 4 is at an advantage.

Yea I forgot about priority lol. That is why it is much better to do a set than a single match. And if one loses when the other has port priority he ain't got no johns.

 

[Jolteon]

In 20XX, Snake dittos are decided by port priority.

 

[Paradoxium]

In 20XX, Snake dittos are decided by port priority.

In 20XX Snake dittos are decided by infinite variables.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

If Pit's arrows need nerfing because Snake can't deal with them then Ivy's back-air needs nerfing because Roy can't deal with it.

The arrows have been messed with a lot already. They're fine now and can't be nerfed further without neutering them entirely. Snake has an absurdly linear recovery, trash aerial mobility and needs a player to be extremely clever to manage him well off-stage. That's not a balance issue, it's a fact of the Pit-Snake match-up.

Which is almost certainly not in Snake's favor

 

[Mischief]

I really don't see how port priority will affect anything other than Up b out of shield, and the only way Up b out of shield will work is if someone makes a bad approach meaning they're probably not going to be hitting Up b at the same time.

Also who has an effective strategy to deal with Pit's arrows?

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Port will effect grabs as well. Just be on the move, be close enough so it's unsafe, use your own projectiles or power sheild.

 

[MonkUnit]

The main thing that port priority affects for Snake is whether or not he gets hit by his own explosions during things like grabs. For example, if Snake is in Port 4 and grabs someone where a grenade or mine (d-smash) is, the opponent will get hit by the explosion but Snake will simply do a grab release. IIRC, that also works for any Port that is higher than the opponent, so if Snake is in Port 2 and the opponent is in Port 1 or Snake is in Port 3 and the opponent is in Port 1 or 2, then the opponent would get hit with the explosion and Snake would not.
However, if Snake is not in Port 4, such as Snake in Port 2 vs the opponent in Port 3 or 4, then Snake will get hit with the explosion instead of the opponent, IIRC.

 

[Mischief]

Yeah but then port priority matters just as much as other dittos in regards to grabs, Marth dittos are all about the grabs baby, and I don't think port priority is considered a deciding factor in Marth dittos. Aside from the land mines I think you're going to see a lot of baited grabs and tranq mix ups.

 

[MonkUnit]

It matters a bit more in Snake dittos because having a higher port allows for kills you normally would not be able to do such as grabbing and then walking into a d-smash mine.

Anyone know if Rolex uses port 4 most if not all of the time in his matches? I know Prof does, so we'll probably see them doing an RPS for ports, haha.

 

[Empyrean]

$5K that Rolex will win the RPS.

 

[standardtoaster]

It's really going to be a $100 RPS match. The snake ditto is just a friendly

 

[RvlvRBobcat]

so.. where are all the rolex supporters, lol

You serious? We have said what we needed to say and we are now waiting for Sktar. We don't have to baby sit you until then do we?

 

[Matty89]

Actually a Snake ditto is one of the few dittos that is inherently unfair. Port Priority matters most in a Snake ditto, so whoever has Port 4 is at an advantage.

Better give it to Rolex then, I'd like to see an actual match other than Prof fighting the equivalent of a Snake cpu.

 

[Matty89]

I remember the first time I saw Rolex's Snake. I thought, "Oh my god that snake is sexy.". Then I saw Prof's. Mind was litterally blown. Well that's just my opinion. Now excuse me while I read the rest of this thread.

I remember the first time I saw Rolex as well. I thought to myself, "looks like this guy is just juggling grenades and getting extremely lucky that he is even hitting anyone." I was even more amazed at how people just stumbled into his s***.

 

[Paradoxium]

I remember the first time I saw Rolex as well. I thought to myself, "looks like this guy is just juggling grenades and getting extremely lucky that he is even hitting anyone." I was even more amazed at how people just stumbled into his s***.

Remembering where the mines are is way harder than it looks, no joke everyone I know stumbles into them. Its hard to focus on your opponent and remember where the mine is.

 

[GeZ]

Rememering where the mines are is way harder than it looks, no joke everyone I know stumbles into them. Its hard to focus on your opponent and remember where the mine is.

I have one friend who has a problem with remembering that, and literally everyone else I know handles it fine. Maybe it's particularly tough for some people, I just don't see why.

 

[Paradoxium]

I have one friend who has a problem with remembering that, and literally everyone else I know handles it fine. Maybe it's particularly tough for some people, I just don't see why.

Its hard when he starts changing the positions of the mines, if you arent paying attention its easy to miss where the last mine was placed. You also gotta keep track of tranq shots, grenades, c4, that dacus, and neutral game ****. It is very easy to forget where the mines are.

 

[Heartstring]

If you've played against snake at all in the past (a.k.a: In brawl) then you will have no problem remembering where mines are, how long the grenades take, etc.

...you don't ever stop thinking you're gonna get Utilted from across the stage though

 

[Empyrean]

...you don't ever stop thinking you're gonna get Utilted from across the stage though

Those were the days.

 

[Strong Badam]

Yeah but then port priority matters just as much as other dittos in regards to grabs, Marth dittos are all about the grabs baby, and I don't think port priority is considered a deciding factor in Marth dittos. Aside from the land mines I think you're going to see a lot of baited grabs and tranq mix ups.

port doesn't determine who grabs if both characters grab each other on the same frame. it's random in that instance.

 

[GeZ]

port doesn't determine who grabs if both characters grab each other on the same frame. it's random in that instance.

Edit: NEW META

 

[Heartstring]

port doesn't determine who grabs if both characters grab each other on the same frame. it's random in that instance.

That changed from brawl, is was it all just rumour in brawl?