Q&A Tips & Answers from a Passing Ninja - Greninja Q&A Thread

[Spiralviper]

Hmm... are there any other things that were made safer on shield? F-tilt comes to mind, but I don't know if it has enough damage to make a difference.

 

[bc1910]

Ftilt is -14 on shield now. Requires good spacing to be safe but is now unpunishable by most dashgrabs. Same goes for Dtilt which is also -14.

I think everything Greninja has is still negative on block but unpunishable if spaced well. He doesn't get dumb block pressure, but he gets safety in his pokes.

 

[ArcGale]

So, what would be some good things to practice solo as Greninja?

 

[Blaziking17]

What is RAR and how do you execute it, i.e. RAR Bair?

 

[Gunla]

What is RAR and how do you execute it, i.e. RAR Bair?

A RAR is a Reverse Aerial Rush. It's used when you want to use a Bair in front of you or simply move forward in the opposite direction.

In order to do a RAR, you must be running, and will need to, while still running, quickly turn the control stick around, and jump as soon as the turnaround begins. If you did it right, you should keep your forward momentum and will face the opposite direction, allowing you to perform a Bair in front of you.

Greninja's RAR Bair is pretty decent.

 

[FrankOcean11]

Tips on landing fair on someone grounded after short hopping? Specifically advice on:
1) Landing it more consistently.
2) Having it less telegraphed.
3) Spacing it so it's (more) safe on shield.

 

[Makani]

Tips on landing fair on someone grounded after short hopping? Specifically advice on:
1) Landing it more consistently.
2) Having it less telegraphed.
3) Spacing it so it's (more) safe on shield.

1: Landing it consistently just comes down to practice, practice using it on shorter characters the most.
2: Just empty hop fastfall constantly if you're not being approached too much, it'll keep them guessing.
3: Try to retreat with it instead of approaching, only approach with FAir if you can read what they're going to do.

 

[FrankOcean11]

1: Landing it consistently just comes down to practice, practice using it on shorter characters the most.
2: Just empty hop fastfall constantly if you're not being approached too much, it'll keep them guessing.
3: Try to retreat with it instead of approaching, only approach with FAir if you can read what they're going to do.

How do you even land fair with a fast fall short hop? The move has like an hour worth of start up frames.

 

[Makani]

How do you even land fair with a fast fall short hop? The move has like an hour worth of start up frames.

Muscle memory from practice, that's why you should practice it on shorter characters since the timing is more strict.

 

[Onyxsbayne]

I can pull off short hop ff nairs and up air spikes, but with how high Greninja jumps and how tricky footstools are, (at least for me), I don't know if it's worth trying to learn the footstool combos with Dair spikes, especially since the timing is so strict. It could be useful, but I don't know where to start with training.

 

[Guimartgon]

What are Greninja's options when your opponent is on the platform right above you?(so Greninja stands underneath any of the low platforms of BF or Dreamland or underneath the moving platform in smashville and your opponent stands in said platform) I feel like I get punished for most things since Greninja's SH height exposes him to be hit by faster moves, SH Uair is just not great at all either, SH Bair could be alright maybe and then everything else has startup. Usmash doesn't sweetspot (and somehow Sheik's does, thanks Sakurai) and Utilt doesn't reach.

Are BF and Dreamland just bad stages for the frog?(I kinda feel that way since the platforms get in my way 90% of the time) or is there something I'm missing in those stages that makes them not horrible?

 

[Steve.Stone]

I always thought Battlefield and similar stages were really cramped for Greninja, but I just being able to put space in between me and my opponent regardless of who I play as. I prefer FD, Town and City, Smashville, though I favor Smashville because of the platform arrangement.

Also my own question, I heard all of Greninja's water swords have their own unique sweetspot, I obviously know up smash's sweetspot but what about all the others?

 

[FullMoon]

Only Up-Smash has a sweetspot.

 

[Xyrohip]

Where is a reliable combo thread for this character? I have recently begun playing greninja for fun and Im not really all that sure on combos. All I know is stuff like Nair ---> Insert Move Here / U Tilt -> U air Meteor -> U tilt repeat/ U throw U air. I know that greninja has some pretty cool combos with footstool dair etc and I was wondering what is guaranteed.

 

[Steve.Stone]

Does up air meteor even still work? I thought it was removed in one of the patches?

 

[Spiralviper]

Does up air meteor even still work? I thought it was removed in one of the patches?

I think it's just a semi-spike. You have to be falling, too.

 

[Xyrohip]

Does up air meteor even still work? I thought it was removed in one of the patches?

It's stronger on some hits. iprefer the first hit as it has the strongest semi. I saw a Greninja mixclip with alot of cool dair / footstool stuff and I wanted to know if any of that is true / worth learning

 

[Xyrohip]

https://youtu.be/aM27Y46FoDI

 

[Steve.Stone]

I'll have to mess around with Uairs then. As for footstools to down air, I suppose it could work but I know I can't do it, but I have plenty of other tools instead. To me Greninja seems like you have the opportunity to develop your own unique fighting style with his moves, try asking around other players and test footstool combos, if you or anyone else can manage it consistently, you can definitely develop it into your style.

 

[Steve.Stone]

I'll have to mess around with Uairs then. As for footstools to down air, I suppose it could work but I know I can't do it, but I have plenty of other tools instead. To me Greninja seems like you have the opportunity to develop your own unique fighting style with his moves, try asking around other players and test footstool combies, if you or anyone else can manage it consistently, you can definitely developeit into your style.

 

[Xyrohip]

I'll have to mess around with Uairs then. As for footstools to down air, I suppose it could work but I know I can't do it, but I have plenty of other tools instead. To me Greninja seems like you have the opportunity to develop your own unique fighting style with his moves, try asking around other players and test footstool combos, if you or anyone else can manage it consistently, you can definitely develop it into your style.

I Would ask others but I got banned from the Greninja Skype group last night for posting an ad for a tournament xD

 

[Steve.Stone]

What's a good way to use substitute? I've gotten better at actually landing it (I used to press the button too early or late and miss it, now I can actually time it consistently.) But what should I like...do with it? The best option I have is 'counter some down move and attack straight up. Kills them off the ceiling but only at higher percentage.

 

[Spiralviper]

What's a good way to use substitute? I've gotten better at actually landing it (I used to press the button too early or late and miss it, now I can actually time it consistently.) But what should I like...do with it? The best option I have is 'counter some down move and attack straight up. Kills them off the ceiling but only at higher percentage.

I find it best to use it offstage if you expect an attack (such as a Falcon who constantly goes for spikes), or to punish very laggy moves (such as Link's dash attack).

Also, if you counter a projectile close-by the person who used it, the counter will target them instead.

As for the angles, straight up has the best kill power, diagonally up is the hardest to punish, and straight down has a meteor hitbox (can be used if you are at least one jump higher than the stage when offstage).

 

[Steve.Stone]

That's another thing, you know how the targeting works? Sometimes it's a projectile I counter and Greninja reappears on the person who shot it, sometimes he doesn't. And this happens at seemingly random distances. Also say I counter someone's jab and I'm on their left side and then hold left to counterattack, where do you reappear? Behind them and go left, where you disappeared and go left?

Lastly if you do counter an attack off stage and attack downward, are you at great risk for SDing since you're moving down so quickly?

 

[Spiralviper]

That's another thing, you know how the targeting works? Sometimes it's a projectile I counter and Greninja reappears on the person who shot it, sometimes he doesn't. And this happens at seemingly random distances.

I don't know. It's a little confusing about the distance. It seems to depend on the projectile.

Also say I counter someone's jab and I'm on their left side and then hold left to counterattack, where do you reappear? Behind them and go left, where you disappeared and go left?

If you hold left, you will appear from the right, and travel left.

If you do counter an attack off stage and attack downward, are you at great risk for SDing since you're moving down so quickly?

You have to be at least a jump's height above the stage, or else you will probably SD. Oops.
Now that I think about it, the diagonal down angles might have a meteor or spike, but I can't remember. I'll have to test it.

 

[Lemonade Candy]

how do you guys deal with people that jump out of your low percent set ups?

 

[Spiralviper]

how do you guys deal with people that jump out of your low percent set ups?

Sometimes you can punish their jump with a Fair, but it depends on the set up, rage, character, etc.

 

[Smashifer]

Hi! I'm here because I want to learn Greninja because he seems like a very fun character. The only problem is...well, I have no idea what to do.
I've gotten a few basic things like dthrow > fsmash but Jab1 > Jab2 > grab but I'm having trouble killing and I don't know much else. So I was wondering if any frog-ninja veterans could give me a few pointers?

 

[Steve.Stone]

So this works on For Glory alot so take that how you will but, what if after you lose a stock, you start shadow sneaking towards the opponent while still on the platform(you won't fall off if you start it while you're floating down riding it.) And then shadow sneak to the opponent, they try to get a punish but you're still invincible so you punish them? How well do you think that would work in a real competitive setting?

 

[Curleh_Mustache]

Are there any good shield pressure options?

 

[SteadyDisciple]

Are there any good shield pressure options?

Not really, no. We have a number of relatively safe pokes, but no real shield pressure tools.

 

[Steve.Stone]

If they're shielding, leave and try something else, there's plenty of safe options.

 

[FMHappy]

Just started playing Greninja and I have a few questions;
-How are spaced SHFF Nair and SHFF Fair as approaches? Are they safe of shield?
-What are some bread and butter throw combos?
-How does he fare against the top tiers?
-Any good Greninjas to watch?

 

[Steve.Stone]

Fair is good if you can space it right, try to just hit them/their shield with the tip, then you can still get away. With Nair, go behind them or challenge them in the air.

Throws depend on how you play, at zero percent I can do up throw to a few up tilts, up throw to 2 up airs to up Smash. Down throw to down tilt to f Smash.

I think tiers are bullcrap. Depends on how good YOU are.

I only know Amsa as probably the 'best' I also like to watch Techei since he's usually on the weekly Tuesday VG bootcamp stream.

 

[Steve.Stone]

Also, I don't know how good this would work, but play for Glory, get confident in your Greninja, and then just try stuff. Do crazy things and see what works and what doesn't, it's more fun and reliable then computers I think since you can learn to read real human players.

 

[SteadyDisciple]

Just started playing Greninja and I have a few questions;
-How are spaced SHFF Nair and SHFF Fair as approaches? Are they safe of shield?
-What are some bread and butter throw combos?
-How does he fare against the top tiers?
-Any good Greninjas to watch?

I'll try to handle these in order. I'm no expert, but it should be a start.

-SHFF F-air is only safe on shield when you aren't moving forward to my knowledge, and SHFF N-air is relatively safe as a cross-up but still not great. With that said, Greninja tends towards more defensive play, since WS is an awesome tool for forcing approaches, and the character's speed forces approaching enemies to take big risks to get in.
-U-throw to U-smash at very low percents against fast fallers, U-throw to U-air is a true combo against most cast members for early-mid percents, and D-throw to either F-air or U-smash makes for a decent 50/50 at kill percents. There are also a number of footstool combos people are still finding. There is also a combo thread on the board somewhere.
-Greninja currently is listed as having 4 bad matchups, with those being Sheik, Fox, Sonic, and Pikachu (the last of which is currently under discussion as possibly being even since the last patch). All other matchups are currently listed as being either even, or in Greninja's favor. Even then, only Sheik is currently considered worse than a 45:55, so nothing too bad to overcome.
-Sadly, can't help much on this front. The frog is very under-repped, and the few good names out there currently escape me.

 

[Steve.Stone]

How does down throw to fair work out? Wouldn't your opponent just guard or move? I guess I should experiment with it more.

And Greninja Vs. Sheik and Fox is so much fun! And Sonic is just annoying. Pikachu...meh.

 

[SteadyDisciple]

How does down throw to fair work out? Wouldn't your opponent just guard or move? I guess I should experiment with it more.

And Greninja Vs. Sheik and Fox is so much fun! And Sonic is just annoying. Pikachu...meh.

D-throw pops opponents into the air in front of you. Due to the hit stun of D-throw, your opponent can only avoid F-air by air dodging. However, if they choose to air dodge and you go for U-smash instead, you can easily catch air dodge's end lag, hence this being a 50/50.

 

[Steve.Stone]

(I don't know if this is listed somewhere else so, excuse me.) But! Exactly how does the trajectory for hydro pump work when trying to gimp people, whenever I try to hit them away it always seems to miss, or send them straight up and actually help them recover. Like if they are low and right up against the wall of the stage I try to shoot the water diagonally down and left, and it always seems to send them up, or just miss. I've o ly really been able to gimp people when they received high or horizontally.

Side question, can you do hydro pump out of a dash?

 

[SteadyDisciple]

(I don't know if this is listed somewhere else so, excuse me.) But! Exactly how does the trajectory for hydro pump work when trying to gimp people, whenever I try to hit them away it always seems to miss, or send them straight up and actually help them recover. Like if they are low and right up against the wall of the stage I try to shoot the water diagonally down and left, and it always seems to send them up, or just miss. I've o ly really been able to gimp people when they received high or horizontally.

Side question, can you do hydro pump out of a dash?

In regards to missing, the projectiles travel in the opposite direction from you/your input, and can be air dodged. Hitting with them is just a matter of practice.

Also, sadly, HP will not push opponents downward. I believe if it hits them horizontally it will only move them sideways, but and upward/downward angle will push them up as well. For stopping people below the edge from recovering, run off B-air is a better option because it can stage spike, and D-air will spike when it starts (but kill you if you miss). With that said, HP also slows the opponent's fall speed, and does not reset jumps/special fall, making it easier to hit with arials afterwards as well.

Side answer: jump cancelled HP will let you perform it quickly from dash, not sure personally if it can be done while dashing.