Legend of Zelda Timeline Discussion

[Wizzrobe]

Isnt the Link the same though? Because I think that it would be strange if they changed the Zelda, but not the Link.

 

[GwJ]

Yeah, the Link is the same one.

 

[Wizzrobe]

Yeah, the Link is the same one.

So, then that Link has saved 2 different Zeldas...

 

[GwJ]

Exactly correct.

 

[zyth]

I just looked at the fron page and was looking at the timeline and i dont think I saw Links awakening anywhere in there. would that one go before or after MM?

 

[GwJ]

Here's the timeline:

It's in a different universe than MM.

 

[FooltheFlames]

Personally I think Nintendo just *****d itself out and quickly made up the "official" timeline just to make some quick cash, not giving it much thought. I still believe in my own timeline theory.

 

[Masky]

^ Actually they didn't. The official timeline agrees with every statement that Nintendo has ever made over the years (except the statement they made about OoT being the seal war), so they probably always had it planned out this way.

 

[GwJ]

The only problems that arose out the timeline that are serious are the disconnect between FS and FSA as far as I recall.

 

[Masky]

The only thing it directly contradicts is an ambiguously worded sentence in the FSA manual, right?

 

[GwJ]

Directly, possibly. I haven't read the manual. Indirectly though, it just doesn't seem right.

 

[Jeff the Killer]

Hmm, Four Swords Adventures AFTER Twilight Princess? No way would Link revert to his cartoon form from the time being. Characters would in fact, have no single way to actually turn small and get huge heads. Well, here is my timeline (please don't hate on me):

Unified:
Skyward Sword
Ocarina of Time

Adult:
The Wind Waker
Phantom Hourglass
Spirit Tracks

Child:
Majora's Mask
Twilight Princess

Decline (Link's Downfall):
A Link to the Past
Link's Awakening
The Legend of Zelda
Adventure of Link

Lost in Water Temple:
The Minish Cap
Four Swords
Four Swords Adventures
Oracle Series

 

[Masky]

Directly, possibly. I haven't read the manual. Indirectly though, it just doesn't seem right.

It's pretty much the best way to put FSA into the timeline. The only other way that didn't mess everything else up would have been FS-FSA-OoT, but that would have seemed even less right imo.

Lost in Water Temple:

...What? I hope you're trolling.

The Water Temple isn't even hard at all. It's just going through each unlocked door until you find a key, then using the key to advance through a locked door, and repeating the process.

 

[Morin0]

...What? I hope you're trolling.

The Water Temple isn't even hard at all. It's just going through each unlocked door until you find a key, then using the key to advance through a locked door, and repeating the process.

Don't undermine the fact that they most likely played this game at a young age

 

[Spire]

He deliberately separated the Oracle games though. They aren't part of the Four Sword arc, they're sequels to ALttP.

Whatever. I don't think there's really a point to this thread any longer.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

If anyone is interested, [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica][SIZE=-1]Hyrule Historia is a[SIZE=-1]vailable for preorder [SIZE=-1]on Amazon.com

[SIZE=-1]I preordered it along with the History of Sonic book.[/SIZE]
[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT]

 

[GwJ]

Yeah I think I pre-ordered both of those a while ago. Looking forward to getting them.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

eh, I guess it's possible I JUST noticed it and they've had the preorder for a while...

I don't go to Amazon unless I'm specifically looking for something

 

[Mr. game and watch]

So if I wanted to play every Zelda game in some sort of timeline order, what order would that be?

I've only finished the story of MM and OoT tbh. However I've played most of the games, just not finished.

 

[GwJ]

Depends which order you want to go in. If you want to go with the Adult Timeline, you have to play SS, FS, OoT, WW, PH, and ST.

If you're playing the Child Timeline, it's SS, FS, OoT, MM, TP, and FSA

If it's the fallen timeline, it's SS, FS, OoT, aLttP, OoX (both Oracle Games), LA, Zelda 1, and Zelda 2.

I think I got those right.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

Rest assured, I need to buy SS :/


So, according to the imaged timeline in the OP, does that mean there's opportunity for 8 or 9 games to fill in those gaps with things like the Hyrule Unification War or The Sealing War?

 

[GwJ]

Well yeah, there's always opportunities for games to fill gaps in the timeline. Just remember that every time you fill a gap, two more gaps appear beside whatever just filled the previous gap. As long as there remains any lore that we haven't played through or any room to expand the lore, there can be a game.

 

[Ove]

I don't get this "fallen hero" timeline. Can someone explain this to me? I mean, with that logic, every Zelda game can be further divided into a "fallen hero" timeline. What is it that makes OoT so special that "fallen hero" only applies to that specific game?

It seems like such a rationalization to me...

 

[GwJ]

We didn't make it up, Nintendo did. The "Fallen Hero" timeline is the result of Link being defeated in the fight with Ganon.

I think the reason why the Fallen Hero timeline exists is because they were trying to reconcile all their lore in a way that would cause no discrepencies when they realized they can't make it work in just two timelines. Therefore, they probably needed to find a way for a third line to exist to make it work.

I also posit that, with what I've stated as a presupposition, no more timeline branches will occur unless they make logical sense at this point since they've now started paying attention to the timeline. We shouldn't see any "Fallen Hero V2.0" show up in the near future unless it made actual sense to the story.

tl;dr Nintendo was lazy and needed to make the timeline work.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

The reason it's OoT tho.

I'm assuming cause Ganon is the MAIN boss in LoZ, and OoT is the only game where you can be child link or adult link.

 

[GwJ]

It didn't have anything to do with being both Child and Adult Link. It had to do with the placement of aLttP's backstory having similarities with OoT, but not enough to be the correct backstory. Nintendo needed a way to make OoT relevant to the backstory yet be able to reconcile the fact that it actually ISN'T the backstory.

 

[Ove]

We didn't make it up, Nintendo did. The "Fallen Hero" timeline is the result of Link being defeated in the fight with Ganon.

I think the reason why the Fallen Hero timeline exists is because they were trying to reconcile all their lore in a way that would cause no discrepencies when they realized they can't make it work in just two timelines. Therefore, they probably needed to find a way for a third line to exist to make it work.

I also posit that, with what I've stated as a presupposition, no more timeline branches will occur unless they make logical sense at this point since they've now started paying attention to the timeline. We shouldn't see any "Fallen Hero V2.0" show up in the near future unless it made actual sense to the story.

Thank you for the reply, but I have never claimed that you have made it up. I have read the Hurule Saga. "Fallen hero" is a lazy move by Nintendo, in my opinion. The logic is flawed, because then they might as well make a fallen hero timeline for every game.

 

[GwJ]

Oh, I didn't mean "make it up" as you thought. I was referring to "make it up" as "we're the ones that created the timeline, not Nintendo" as it used to be before the Historia.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

It exists because of all the time paradoxes created in the game

Except one of the ones that happened in Oracle of Ages, which was a MUCH worse paradox

 

[Frostwraith]

I'd assume that the Fallen Hero line is merely a side-storyline to Ocarina of Time. and Zelda isn't the only franchise that does things like these alternate scenarios.

in A Link to the Past, there's no mention of a legendary hero and only the Sages are mentioned as the ones that defeated Ganon.

Ocarina was originally made to develop A Link to the Past's backstory, but ended up in having sequels to the branched timeline caused by Zelda returning Link to his time, creating a time paradox.

the assumption that Link died during his duel with Ganon makes the link (no pun intended) between Ocarina of Time and A Link to the Past more coherent.

correct me if I'm wrong, as I've played every Zelda, except A Link to the Past, both Oracle games and Minish Cap.

 

[GwJ]

The "Fallen Hero" timeline isn't a time-paradox based timeline. Whereas both the Adult and Child timeline happened, the Fallen Hero timeline only happens if the Adult and Child timelines DON'T happen and vice versa.

 

[Frostwraith]

did I even say that the Fallen Hero branch is part of the time paradox? o.O

what I said is that the Child+Adult timelines and Fallen Hero timeline are more like side-stories to each another.

 

[GwJ]

I wasn't replying to you.

 

[Frostwraith]

sorry, then.

you could have stated that on your post, though.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

The "Fallen Hero" timeline isn't a time-paradox based timeline. Whereas both the Adult and Child timeline happened, the Fallen Hero timeline only happens if the Adult and Child timelines DON'T happen and vice versa.

The definition of an alternate timeline being created is because of a paradox

 

[GwJ]

That timeline didn't necessarily happen.

Either A happened (Where A = Child + Adult)
or B happened (Where B = Fallen)

A or B happening is not based on time, but based on the result of a specific battle.

 

[Ove]

Another thing that bugs me is Zelda II being the last game in the timeline, that doesn't make any sense. It is stated in the manual that it is the same Zelda in Zelda II as in the original LoZ, and the story says it was from that point every new princess of Hyrule should be named Zelda. But then why are there so many princesses named Zelda prior to this?

 

[etecoon]

A lot of the story in the older Zelda games is incongruent with post OoT Zelda, that's why all of those games were conveniently tossed aside into the "maybe if Ganon had won, but of course he actually didn't" timeline

I still feel like the connections between some games like TP and LTTP are too overwhelming to be ignored, like they were clearly going in that direction and then just changed their minds.

 

[Xatres]

Ever since Hyrule Historia was released, I've only had one issue with the 3 branch timeline. I simply find the idea of having a timeline where Link loses distasteful. I'm sure other people feel that way as well. I'm actually curious if their intent is to make that the official stance or the "in universe" stances. As in: In the fallen timeline, people may have heard of some hero who was supposed to stop Ganon but failed.

I think a great solution which would rest better in my mind is that the fallen timeline is simply a branch of history that was also created when Link time traveled. Essentially, everything that Young Link did in OoT happened, including gathering the spiritual stones and opening the Temple of Time. But then when Link disappears into the timestream, we get a new timeline where he never reappears again.

Each time travel event is considered an intervention that changes history, and disappearing and reappearing are considered separate events. I think this makes a lot of sense based on the way the other two branches are formed and gets rid of the idea that Link could just fail. That opens the doors to having a huge number of timelines spinning out of every game in the series (which isn't quite as tidy). Other than that one issue, I think the official timeline does a stellar job wrapping all the games together. Much better than a single or double timeline could.

 

[GwJ]

Don't get too confused by the time travel thing. In Ocarina of Time, the past and future universes are bidirectionally connected. When Link is traveling backing and forth in time, he's doing it in the same two universes every single time because the Master Sword bridges the gap between those two universes. He's not going to a random universe every time.

And besides, if we're going to start saying we're getting new universes from time travel, we should be looking at Majora's Mask, not Ocarina of Time.