Social "Time to Tip the Scales!" - Robin Social Thread

[Kenith]

OI am glad that he's gone. I feel bad for his fans yes, but I don't want a character with barely any history with Nintendo be in a Nintendo All-Stars game. Recent history has him be loyal to other companies that aren't Nintendo as well.
I only miss his unique moveset and the fact that he paved the way for Sonic, Mega Man, and Pac-Man. Other than that, I really don't care and I really don't want him back.[/collapse]

Excuse me..?
Just kidding. No disrespect to his fans, but I don't care for Snake (as a character) at all. I'll admit to Photoshopping some butt images after seeing Brawl screenshots, but that aside. All I cared about is Snake, as a fighter. If Sami from Advance Wars or something took up his moveset, I would never look back.

I have never even touched a Metal Gear game. His moveset is at least 70% of why I liked having him in Brawl.
Although I don't really agree that Solid Snake is a Playstation character, his character isn't really that important.
But I don't think it's right to paste his moveset onto a completely different character either.

 

[The_Cardinal]

I think the amusing part is unlimited Arcfire still wouldn't be anywhere near as obnoxious as Falco's blaster from Melee. My goodness.

Real talk, a character with such great rush down, pressure, punishes, combos, and a great spike has no business having a projectile THAT good.

 

[Raziek]

Would Robin would overpowered without the gimmick of running out of spells?

Nope. Wins matchups we already win a bit harder, but we'd still get pooped on by the bad matchups.

 

[Hong]

Real talk, a character with such great rush down, pressure, punishes, combos, and a great spike has no business having a projectile THAT good.

I've always said that you could give Falco's blaster to any character, Pichu included, and they would bump up at least a tier class. That is bottom to low, low to mid, etc. The remaining character, Falco without the blaster, would still be high at the minimum. His shine and unprecedental vertical movement alone is so good. Factor in his ridiculous dair and combos... You've got a bad bird.

 

[Kenith]

Nope. Wins matchups we already win a bit harder, but we'd still get pooped on by the bad matchups.

So then why does Robin need the limit?

 

[False Sense]

If Robin were given unlimited weapons... Well, it would certainly have its benefits (infinite Arcfire would be insanely good), but at the same time, it would be depriving us of a powerful tool in the form of dropped tomes and swords. They're actually Robin's most deadly projectiles, and to lose that completely would be unfortunate.

 

[Raziek]

So then why does Robin need the limit?

So that we don't completely poop on the characters who have difficulty dealing with it.

If you're unfamiliar with the concept of 'counterplay' in competitive games, I'd recommend checking out the Extra Credits episodes on the topic.

The tomes breaking provide meaningful counterplay for characters who struggle with the spells to find an opening once they break.

Shame counterplay isn't evenly applied in Smash.

 

[The_Cardinal]

If Robin were given unlimited weapons... Well, it would certainly have its benefits (infinite Arcfire would be insanely good), but at the same time, it would be depriving us of a powerful tool in the form of dropped tomes and swords. They're actually Robin's most deadly projectiles, and to lose that completely would be unfortunate.

I sometimes deliberately whiff spells to both get access to the book and ensure I have more usage of that spell for when I really need it. While I do think some things can be tweaked, I'm a fan of the mechanic overall.

 

[Deleted member]

I remember fighting a few good Falco mains in Brawl and his Blaster in particular can kill approaches, especially when it can be shot faster in the air. Coupled that with his dair, chain grab, and DACUS, he is a very tough character to fight against; you might as well call Final Destination "Falco Destination." It's no wonder why he got nerfed so hard in Smash 4...
And when you are a Luigi main like me, life isn't pretty against Falco due to Luigi's horrible range, approach, and defenses (though, it's not uncommon for this to happen; many fights in Brawl can be tough due to the heavy imbalances).

So then why does Robin need the limit?

It wouldn't match Robin's character or the spirit of Fire Emblem to have unlimited weaponry.
Still, it's good that Robin has limited tomes because the books are powerful; I've KO'd several people and even won matches by throwing a used tome.

 

[shrooby]

If Arcfire couldn't break, I would be sad panda.
It is so aggravating to play against...

Spoiler

cries out in frustration

 

[Kenith]

So is Robin the perfect character then?

 

[Hong]

I think I should also clarify on something: I don't necessarily think unlimited Arcfire would be overpowered in the sense that it won't make Robin the best character. It would no doubt be insanely more powerful, even factoring in its recovery, but not break the game. In situations where Robin can spam it indefinitely to gain a huge advantage, it could begin to border in rather binary outcome, where the Robin player should always win in those situations. That said, when you have a downward-arcing projectile in a game where everyone is full of helium, it's ultimately going to just mean people will adapt by approaching Robin more often from the air, or countering the projectile itself.

That said, it would be absolutely awful in every way in terms of a gameplay experience. It's enough with its damage and launch power. But it also takes up stage real-estate, locks you down, and it's a legitimate kill setup in a game where kill setups have separated the good from the bad. The kill setup aspect is actually good and just fine, though with all else it has it would need to be tweaked to be allowed to be unlimited.

 

[shrooby]

So is Robin the perfect character then?

Not unless his up-special is changed to Shuttle Loop.

 

[Kenith]

That said, it would be absolutely awful in every way in terms of a gameplay experience. It's enough with its damage and launch power. But it also takes up stage real-estate, locks you down, and it's a legitimate kill setup in a game where kill setups have separated the good from the bad. The kill setup aspect is actually good and just fine, though with all else it has it would need to be tweaked to be allowed to be unlimited.

Well, I'm not suggesting that Robin have the limit removed without any other changes...I just don't know if the tome limit was the best idea...I feel like Nosferatu has too few casts to be so easy to whiff and it's lame that Robin's jab is the same as Elwind.

 

[False Sense]

So is Robin the perfect character then?

No.

But he's perfect for me.

 

[shrooby]

Well, I'm not suggesting that Robin have the limit removed without any other changes...I just don't know if the tome limit was the best idea...I feel like Nosferatu has too few casts to be so easy to whiff and it's lame that Robin's jab is the same as Elwind.

The Elwind jab is pretty bad anyway since you can usually just get out of it before getting to the finishing hit.

No.

But he's perfect for me.

*False Sense and Robin reached A-level Support*

 

[The_Cardinal]

No.

But he's perfect for me.

The Elwind jab is pretty bad anyway since you can usually just get out of it before getting to the finishing hit.



*False Sense and Robin reached A-level Support*

Not quite sure why you've stopped at only A-level Support for them though....

 

[BluePikmin11]

Lip

 

[LIQUID12A]

Lip

I'm simultaneously d'aaaawing and laughing at this. It just evokes so many emotions at once. But it's overall cute.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Geo.Lupo

Geo.Lupo

 

[LIQUID12A]

bluepikmin

stahp

pls

i can only laugh so many times

 

[timetotipthescales]

The worst part is, the two cuts in Smash 4 that sucked the hardest - Snake and Ice Climbers - were doomed from the start. I would totally have given up the 3DS version, or at least wait for a New 3DS exclusive Smash, to get them. Even though I don't play them, it just feels wrong to have six unique characters completely removed.

I would've totally waited for a New 3DS exclusive Smash that could handle more characters if the Ice Climbers were a part of it, or even just the Wii U version for the Ice Climbers.

Snake was cool, but I didn't really expect him to come back. Then again, I didn't expect Sonic to come back either, yet here we are.

 

[Deleted member]

Am I the only that would be sad about the fact that Robin would lose her nice cosmetic characteristic of representing the breakability of tomes and weapons in FE if given unbreaking spells/equipment?

That's like, my favorite part of her being a representative of FE.

D:

 

[Hong]

Am I the only that would be sad about the fact that Robin would lose her nice cosmetic characteristic of representing the breakability of tomes and weapons in FE if given unbreaking spells/equipment?

That's like, my favorite part of her being a representative of FE.

D:

Oh, personally, I love Robin's characteristics. I would leave durability in, but:

1) Better integrate it on the UI someway to better communicate what is going on.
2) Make Nosferatu feel better for both ends. Just a more precise hitbox with a more accurate initial graphic.
3) Let Robin players choose if they want to use one or two Elwinds,
4) Leave Arcfire and Thunder as is.

That is to say, I rather improve the benefit to offset the drawbacks of breakable equipment than try to balance Robin without it. Improvements that are more about just improving the game experience than buffs or nerfs.

 

[Kenith]

Oh, personally, I love Robin's characteristics. I would leave durability in, but:
1) Better integrate it on the UI someway to better communicate what is going on.
2) Make Nosferatu feel better for both ends. Just a more precise hitbox with a more accurate initial graphic.
3) Let Robin players choose if they want to use one or two Elwinds,
4) Leave Arcfire and Thunder as is.
That is to say, I rather improve the benefit to offset the drawbacks of breakable equipment than try to balance Robin without it. Improvements that are more about just improving the game experience than buffs or nerfs.

That seems like a fair compromise. An indicator on the HUD for how many of a tome you have left would be extremely helpful.
Also, this is something I was expected pre-release but didn't happen, I was hoping the tome you used last would always be part of your jab like Elwind...

 

[Drakonis]

That seems like a fair compromise. An indicator on the HUD for how many of a tome you have left would be extremely helpful.
Also, this is something I was expected pre-release but didn't happen, I was hoping the tome you used last would always be part of your jab like Elwind...

Well, the Fire jab is superior in 99.99% of cases anyways, despite taking an arcfire charge.

But I'll admit that I feel somewhat sorry for you guys for losing one of your mains, as I can relate to that feeling.

Heh. One.

Yes, I know I technicly got an upgrade for Red with . I still miss the trainer being represented though.


Alas, while I do miss those guys many of the new characters are pretty dang awesome and help ease the pain. Especially .

 

[Deleted member]

Well, the Fire jab is superior in 99.99% of cases anyways, despite taking an arcfire charge.

Agreed to the max.

Once I figured out I could just jump out of the Elwind string before the finisher connects, I stopped worrying whenever I would get caught in the Elwind jab.

The Arcfire jab on the other hand cannot be jumped out of (at least I've never been able to), that and it's launch angle (coupled with its knockback) is pretty nice imo.

Not fun to be hit with that at the edge. >_>

 

[Kenith]

I take back what I said about Snake.
I was going through my music in Smash 4 earlier and went to change the music for Shadow Moses Island.
But it wasn't there.
I had to stop because it was such a tragic revelation.

 

[Hong]

The wind jab is the best because it looks so tight. Robin is all like "Yo I'm just here reading mah book and you're getting mangled." and is all like "Oh, sorry, did you say something?" as s/he shuts it.

P L E G I A N S T Y L E

 

[Drakonis]

The wind jab is the best because it looks so tight. Robin is all like "Yo I'm just here reading mah book and you're getting mangled." and is all like "Oh, sorry, did you say something?" as s/he shuts it.

P L E G I A N S T Y L E

Now if only the combo would actually trap enemies as well as other combo type attacks do.

 

[LIQUID12A]

The wind jab is the best because it looks so tight. Robin is all like "Yo I'm just here reading mah book and you're getting mangled." and is all like "Oh, sorry, did you say something?" as s/he shuts it.

P L E G I A N S T Y L E

Disappointingly, it's counter bait.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I will bet my very soul that his tome/sword breaks have NOTHING to do with balance and EVERYTHING to do with representing the limited use mechanic from FE.

Unlimited uses of tomes and Levin sword would not make him broken or help his bad matches. Robins bad matches are such due to horrible mobility and poor close range options besides jab. (which is frame 4 anyways.)

 

[Mr. Johan]

It's probably why our books and sword kill as early as they do. It provides incentive to not play conservatively with our specials and sword in an attempt to keep our options as long as possible, since we have a sweet kill move once an item gets wasted that opponents have to respect, and thus let us stall to get the item back.

To waste a book or sword, only to have the item question kill at around 230% instead? That would be very disheartening.

 

[Meta651]

The bad MU for Robin are because rushdown can really tear us apart, we have a good close combat with fast moves and powerful aerials but not like Sheik that he can pressure you with just Fair or Ftilt. I think that the weapon breaking properties is just for representation and to give a little gimmick to the tactician, still the books do tons of damage for a single item and have a really good killpower. And what we could possibly now of what Sakurai was thinking while making Robin? Only he knows.

Also, playing against @ Raziek Robin (or training with him) in a nutshell.

Spoiler

 

[Célja]

Landing double nairs to gimp someone feels so satisfying. I pulled one off the other night playing for glory and I could feel the salt levels rising since he died at like 58%

Also, I thought that yellow Robin was me at first since I associate the most with that palette swap and I too have suffered from Raziek's nairs. I realized that couldn't have been me since I've never had the joy of playing with more than one other Robin in a match
(I secretly long for the day of playing 8 player robin matches with actual people. I'll settle though for doubles/4 player free for all)

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

This KAW-racked me up.

 

[Wintropy]

This KAW-racked me up.

Are you FLOCK-ing kidding me? That's just RAVEN mad prices!

 

[Diddy Kong]

I just discovered that this thread is the best social thread.

 

[False Sense]

I just discovered that this thread is the best social thread.

We could have told you that.

 

[Diddy Kong]

We could have told you that.

Wouldn't you condemn me for being a "tier *****"?

Btw, I really like 's playstyle! He's easily my favorite newcomer in this game.