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tiers

Tenki

Tenki

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
6,966
Location
GA
aeghrur said:
To Tenki, why would you want KASR2 gone? Just look at my sig, do you see stuff like that happening without him? :(
Click to expand...
And my sig wouldn't be happening without him either.

It's double edged.
 
da K.I.D.

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
19,658
Location
Rochester, NY
ShadowLink84 said:
I would have to say.
A more serious forum.
I understand what blue says, the Sonic forums has alot of spam and really does not take things seriously most of the time.

While asking for people to go to tournaments is a bit much (some like me just cannot go) it is understandable that he wants people to stop talking and put more action into things.

@inui:Inui go away.

Stop referring to yourself as a top player cause you have a long way to go.

If Blue is very good it is probably because of his skill and the hardwork he put into things, not just the fact that he faces top players.
The ability to take what you have learned and make it into an actuality is what matters.
Click to expand...
the times that we do take stuff seriously, we get a lot done, we just have fun at the same time, theres nothing wrong with that.

@the bolded part, hes taken the first step already...
he switched to MK
memphis_chains said:
i'm confused what we got out of this thread
Click to expand...
we learned that sonic mains are goofy and like to joke around dispite the fact that we are good and productive.

weve also learned that SONIC ***** LOW TIERS
 
M

memphis_chains

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
83
i actually never minded inui until he start talking like he was a big shot.

i mean, i gave him **** the entire time because of inui logic, but now he actually makes me angry.
 
da K.I.D.

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
19,658
Location
Rochester, NY
@boxy, trudat

@MC yah i know what you mean, before all i knew him as was a portable john factory
but the guy wins like 2 tourneys and now him and his friends are teh ultimate experts on everthing? I mean really? how do you go and take the opinion of a 16 year old as undeniable fact liek that? (no offence to X and his brothers...) atomsk may be a good player but theres a reason that the BR is a decent sized group of people...
i actually started bragging about myself LESS after I won a tourney
 
da K.I.D.

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
19,658
Location
Rochester, NY
as of right now, who the hell you are is confusing me right now...lolj/k

but still, good to see a new face (so to speak) around here, welcome to the sonic boards
 
Kinzer

Kinzer

Mammy
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
10,397
Location
Las Vegas, NV
NNID
Kinzer
3DS FC
2251-6533-0581
Whew did I miss a lot when I spent the night at a friends.

Edit: Lol Cat chooses to go Red in a Blue forum. (get it?)
 
Kinzer

Kinzer

Mammy
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
10,397
Location
Las Vegas, NV
NNID
Kinzer
3DS FC
2251-6533-0581
I like to call him X5, reminds me of one of my favorite video games.

Anybody have any idea what I'm talking about?...here's a hint:

Capcom is known for making it.
 
Terios the Hedgehog

Terios the Hedgehog

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 25, 2006
Messages
6,452
Location
Shenandoah, PA
Play the game. You'll get more than that blown. XD

Nah. I haven't played it. I saw it on G4. As far as I know it's not in english. It'd be fun to preorder though. ^_^
 
infomon

infomon

Smash Scientist
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
5,559
Location
Toronto, Canada
Anther said:
I has some newer vids, I'm getting comfy with him a bit, still not quite enough to use him as the marth counterpick I want him for yet though XD...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4hBCeWlLYM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeUVXH8H5HA
Click to expand...
Anther, (and all Sonic mains!), I noticed in these videos that at high percent, your instinct is correct to use an aerial attack as soon as possible to escape hitstun early. All should read [this thread] for details; if you're sent towards the sides, use your fastest aerial so you can 2nd jump away from the edge as early as possible, and if you're sent towards the stage top, you can fastfall the aerial as soon as it starts; the fastfall can happen even while you're travelling upwards in knockback, so it helps avoid the ceiling.

However an exception is Sonic's Dair; due to the momentum-changing properties of his down-air, it actually doesn't fastfall if you're in knockback, so it's worse than insta-fastfalling any of his other aerials if you're trying to avoid the stage ceiling. Even though many instincts, including Anther's, is to down-air asap out of hitstun, it's much better to use a different aerial. When heading to the top, hold down on the control stick and C-stick an Fair or Bair as soon as you can.

Edit: Yeah, that's right a real post. Take that, ridiculous fail-thread! Hah!

Also, Bowser's really not that bad, despite some bad matchups, guys don't trash him unless you've really studied Bowser's strengths.
 
da K.I.D.

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
19,658
Location
Rochester, NY
good info let me specify some...

f-air is fastest, it starts at the same time as u-air but ends before it, so should you need to do it twice, f-air is the better option.

dont second jump away from the blastzone, that limits your options..
instead, side b
it cancels ALL HORISONTAL MOMENTUM but release it quickly because the actual move itself moves you ever so slightly backwards so if you are right right at teh barrier, that holding side b too long could kill you, not likely but definitely important to know
 
infomon

infomon

Smash Scientist
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
5,559
Location
Toronto, Canada
Nonono.

da K.I.D. said:
f-air is fastest, it starts at the same time as u-air but ends before it, so should you need to do it twice, f-air is the better option.

dont second jump away from the blastzone, that limits your options..
instead, side b
it cancels ALL HORISONTAL MOMENTUM but release it quickly because the actual move itself moves you ever so slightly backwards so if you are right right at teh barrier, that holding side b too long could kill you, not likely but definitely important to know
Click to expand...
Good to know that Fair is fastest, but you never want to do it twice; not to avoid a blastzone, anyway. During knockback, you don't have horizontal aerial influence, all you can do is fastfall an aerial (at any point during the aerial, unless it's weird like Sonic's Dair). If you're headed towards the sides, you only use an aerial so you can quickly do something else to avoid the edge. So yeah use Fair to avoid the sides, but just do it once.

Afterwards, your aerial influence might be enough to avoid the side, but using your 2nd jump towards the stage helps more, so it might well be necessary.

Do not use your side-B. Let me be more clear... You're hit towards the side, after using an aerial as soon as possible to escape hitstun, you'll still be travelling towards the edge (knockback), but now you're free to use a Special. But if you use a momentum-changing special, such as Sonic's side-B, normally it would stop your momentum, but since you're in knockback, this weird thing happens. You get a boost upwards and away from the stage, like even more than the knockback you were in. It's a punishment for trying to alter your momentum with a Special during knockback. It happens with many Specials, like Peach's side-B and Fox's Shine. And it happens with Sonic's Side-B and HA, and maybe even Spring.

So remember: side-B only cancels horizontal momentum if you're in control of that momentum in the first place.
 
infomon

infomon

Smash Scientist
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
5,559
Location
Toronto, Canada
Down-B doesn't affect momentum, right? So it should be fine. Where "fine" is defined as, you continue moving along your knockback trajectory, so you better hope you're not on a deadly trajectory that you could have avoided by jumping.

Although I haven't tested down-B to say for sure.

With side-B.... try it out for yourself, decide if you think it's worth the charge-up time. Because you get pushed away as soon as you start the side-B; there is start-up lag to it, as you know.

The way I test is I made a huuge custom level, but a floor along the whole bottom, set Sonic to 120% and use DK's Fsmash (c-stick or whatevs) at 1/4 speed from the leftmost part of the stage sending Sonic right. Fair and side-B asap, see what happens. Also try out HA, it's pretty wild.
 
Tenki

Tenki

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
6,966
Location
GA
infzy said:
Anther, (and all Sonic mains!), I noticed in these videos that at high percent, your instinct is correct to use an aerial attack as soon as possible to escape hitstun early. All should read [this thread] for details; if you're sent towards the sides, use your fastest aerial so you can 2nd jump away from the edge as early as possible, and if you're sent towards the stage top, you can fastfall the aerial as soon as it starts; the fastfall can happen even while you're travelling upwards in knockback, so it helps avoid the ceiling.

However an exception is Sonic's Dair; due to the momentum-changing properties of his down-air, it actually doesn't fastfall if you're in knockback, so it's worse than insta-fastfalling any of his other aerials if you're trying to avoid the stage ceiling. Even though many instincts, including Anther's, is to down-air asap out of hitstun, it's much better to use a different aerial. When heading to the top, hold down on the control stick and C-stick an Fair or Bair as soon as you can.

Edit: Yeah, that's right a real post. Take that, ridiculous fail-thread! Hah!

Also, Bowser's really not that bad, despite some bad matchups, guys don't trash him unless you've really studied Bowser's strengths.
Click to expand...
This is turning out to be like the "Ganondorf is the worst character in the game" thread, which, despite its title and random trolls, was THE Ganondorf metagame development thread at the time lol.

And yeah, Bowser isn't too bad if the player using him plays safe and doesn't miss much.

infzy said:
Nonono.



Good to know that Fair is fastest, but you never want to do it twice; not to avoid a blastzone, anyway. During knockback, you don't have horizontal aerial influence, all you can do is fastfall an aerial (at any point during the aerial, unless it's weird like Sonic's Dair). If you're headed towards the sides, you only use an aerial so you can quickly do something else to avoid the edge. So yeah use Fair to avoid the sides, but just do it once.

Afterwards, your aerial influence might be enough to avoid the side, but using your 2nd jump towards the stage helps more, so it might well be necessary.

Do not use your side-B. Let me be more clear... You're hit towards the side, after using an aerial as soon as possible to escape hitstun, you'll still be travelling towards the edge (knockback), but now you're free to use a Special. But if you use a momentum-changing special, such as Sonic's side-B, normally it would stop your momentum, but since you're in knockback, this weird thing happens. You get a boost upwards and away from the stage, like even more than the knockback you were in. It's a punishment for trying to alter your momentum with a Special during knockback. It happens with many Specials, like Peach's side-B and Fox's Shine. And it happens with Sonic's Side-B and HA, and maybe even Spring.

So remember: side-B only cancels horizontal momentum if you're in control of that momentum in the first place.
Click to expand...
trooth.

da K.I.D. said:
and if you do use side b, that helps more cus if you release it quickly, than you avoid that little side affect
Click to expand...
infzy said:
Down-B doesn't affect momentum, right? So it should be fine. Where "fine" is defined as, you continue moving along your knockback trajectory, so you better hope you're not on a deadly trajectory that you could have avoided by jumping.

Although I haven't tested down-B to say for sure.

With side-B.... try it out for yourself, decide if you think it's worth the charge-up time. Because you get pushed away as soon as you start the side-B; there is start-up lag to it, as you know.

The way I test is I made a huuge custom level, but a floor along the whole bottom, set Sonic to 120% and use DK's Fsmash (c-stick or whatevs) at 1/4 speed from the leftmost part of the stage sending Sonic right. Fair and side-B asap, see what happens. Also try out HA, it's pretty wild.
Click to expand...
yessss this.

I've died multiple times trying to stop momentum with side-B and...

homing attack.

lol.

I've also died double jumping, because Sonic's failaerial acceleration doesn't cut it just quite enough.

Down-B idea sounds good, if you can get the timing for a single charge ASC right. Only if you have the airtime to charge it though. Otherwise you'll die charging :[

I'm wondering about using spring to 'break' momentum though. I only died once using spring to break momentum, and it was a spring done towards the upper corner or so of the level (I used it really late). Otherwise, it's your fastest attack ever, and after the initial "OSHI-" momentum slide, you can regain momentum like a normal spring jump with an F-air or something.
 
infomon

infomon

Smash Scientist
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
5,559
Location
Toronto, Canada
lol about Ganandorf thread.

Tenki said:
I'm wondering about using spring to 'break' momentum though. I only died once using spring to break momentum, and it was a spring done towards the upper corner or so of the level (I used it really late). Otherwise, it's your fastest attack ever, and after the initial "OSHI-" momentum slide, you can regain momentum like a normal spring jump with an F-air or something.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what you mean. You can't use Spring out of hitstun; it's a Special, and during hitstun (the part of hitstun where you can do stuff, which comes some arbitrary amount of time after hitstun starts not sure what determines it lol), you can either airdodge, or use an aerial (A-button) attack. Or throw an item if you're holding one, which is by far the fastest thing to do for everyone, and hence the best to use (to avoid the sides.... not sure if you can fastfall the item-throw or not to avoid the ceiling lol).

Hrm, I'm rambling. Anyway, are you trying to avoid the side killzones with the spring, or the top one? You can definitely spring over the top into death, so don't spring thinking it can't kill you. I think the condition is that you can spring much higher than the normal vertical killzone, only if you don't have any knockback-effect on your momentum; otherwise, you probably get that weird extra boost from the Spring into death, lol.

I don't at all see how the spring could save you from the side killzones, although I'll admit I've tried it anyway out of desperation when my 2nd jump wasn't available. And I died, lol. Why do you think it would help?

Oh, and for single-charge down-B.... it doesn't make sense. If you're in knockback but out of hitstun, and heading toward the side... you've already regained your horizontal aerial influence. Just leaning towards the stage you'll be using your drift against the knockback on you. This alone can save you without using your 2nd jump, but the jump gives you a really big surge against the knockback, which can save you, but doesn't always. Giving up a jump opportunity (if you have it), or even just your horizontal aerial influence, for the sake of down-B surely wouldn't help, IMO. Because I think if you're in the rare situation where it could help instead of your aerial influence, then you're almost surely in a situation where the down-B start-up lag will kill you before you can release it.

I think. Hmm, I'll have to test that in the morning.
 
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