greenblob
Smash Lord
Falcon, too slow? Surely you jest.
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Tiers? (Include an explaination)
- Thread starter Nero
- Start date
This is the most ******** statement I've heard in the past month. My brain couldn't even process the first sentence.
1. Any character should win if played "perfect"ly
2. Imagine a "perfect" yoshi vs a "perfect" fox. /headasplode
Neither would ever hit each other.
I hope the migraine you just gave me was intentional. If not, plz proof-read your posts. Better yet, think before you type.
_kSo_
Smash Master
yoshi has parry and "just defend"
tech-wise, he has better skills. his DJC is 2 leet
Zantetsu
Smash Master
See this is what I don't get. Ness is top tier because he can be INSANE if played to the max. But the same with yoshi and he's bottom tier? The tier list is all screwed up >_>
greenblob
Smash Lord
Yoshi can't combo floaties.
SuPeRbOoM
Smash Master
djc nair jigglypuff...see what happens
SheerMadness
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2005
- Messages
- 4,781
Yoshi can combo floaties.
Zantetsu
Smash Master
Yeah I think your just focusing on his up tilt and uair's =\
Edit : 1,400th post ^^
_kSo_
Smash Master
ness is *easier* to use than yoshi
Zantetsu
Smash Master
Easier to use cheap wise. Throw throw throw SPIKE! But that shouldn't make him top tier =\
M3tr01D
Smash Lord
ness shouldn't be top tier I've already said it but no one ever changes it 
Fox is far superior to him.
Fox is far superior to him.
Zantetsu
Smash Master
Exactly what I'm trying to get through some people's heads =_=ness shouldn't be top tier I've already said it but no one ever changes it
Dash_Fox
Smash Ace
SHUT UP Ness owns just not online. 
Zantetsu
Smash Master
Don't tell me to shut up you big meanySHUT UP Ness owns just not online.
limitbreak
Smash Ace
Ness just has that stupid ada that is like a super spike.
Zantetsu
Smash Master
Falcon and kirby's is also broken.
MarioReincarnate
Smash Journeyman
This is st00pid... everyone knows Giant DK is top tier... just nobody mains him.
DUH
DUH
Zantetsu
Smash Master
What I mean by broken is...The spikes that come out so fast like falcon, ness and kirby weren't supposed to be spikes. Thats why spikes in melee do a little charge kind of thing.
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 26, 2006
- Messages
- 5,744
Too bad Ness has the mobility of a rat missing it's two hind feet.
Yeah, I lost a large post about Falcon being better than Pikachu.
It went something along the lines of Falcon having rigged combo starters on the ground.
Upsmash = giant pillow hitbox attached to man on jetskis. Maneuverable jetskis.
Throw = SSB64 near lagless throw attempts + stupid jetskis.
And from there, it's Uair x 20 --> Up-b, the stupidly easy to do finisher.
Pika actually has to work for his combos. It's harder to start from 0 with him. Though now that I've played him for a while, I'm thinking they're more equal now. Stupid gigantic hitboxes.
There's one thing that makes Falcon eligible for broken tier though, and that's combos that're relatively unaffected by DI. It's much harder to DI Falcon combos than people who rely on drills and multihits.
Yeah, I lost a large post about Falcon being better than Pikachu.
It went something along the lines of Falcon having rigged combo starters on the ground.
Upsmash = giant pillow hitbox attached to man on jetskis. Maneuverable jetskis.
Throw = SSB64 near lagless throw attempts + stupid jetskis.
And from there, it's Uair x 20 --> Up-b, the stupidly easy to do finisher.
Pika actually has to work for his combos. It's harder to start from 0 with him. Though now that I've played him for a while, I'm thinking they're more equal now. Stupid gigantic hitboxes.
There's one thing that makes Falcon eligible for broken tier though, and that's combos that're relatively unaffected by DI. It's much harder to DI Falcon combos than people who rely on drills and multihits.
pikachu combos might be harder but you can still consistently do them, especially when you have ******** hitboxes (f-air d-air u-air) you can use to open them with.
you can talk about tiers in SSB64 in terms of how accessible it is to play characters effectively, and in these terms i think the current tier lists (fox falcon pikachu kirby > other characters) are pretty accurate, but the 64 'metagame' is a worthless topic. what would the true 64 metagame be like? people 0-death'ing and nothing else? that's stupid and no one plays like that. ssb gameplay is too simple to be worth talking about tiers, unless you want to give some numerical value to things like priority and come up with huge averages. this isn't melee and any kind of tier difference can be overcome with mindgames (unless you are samus. samus blows)
you can talk about tiers in SSB64 in terms of how accessible it is to play characters effectively, and in these terms i think the current tier lists (fox falcon pikachu kirby > other characters) are pretty accurate, but the 64 'metagame' is a worthless topic. what would the true 64 metagame be like? people 0-death'ing and nothing else? that's stupid and no one plays like that. ssb gameplay is too simple to be worth talking about tiers, unless you want to give some numerical value to things like priority and come up with huge averages. this isn't melee and any kind of tier difference can be overcome with mindgames (unless you are samus. samus blows)
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 26, 2006
- Messages
- 5,744
I don't think Fox deserves to be higher than Falcon...he gets gimped almost as easily as Falcon does, and a lot of his combos need a drill somewhere in them to keep going...I'm not a big fan of drills. They're relatively easy to DI out of.
limitbreak
Smash Ace
Yea falcon's is somewhat more difficult to pull off but even if kirby misses he can just fly to safety. Its garbage.
Zeee
Smash Journeyman
My samus is mid tier.... Keyboard ftw
StealthECartman
Smash Apprentice
Most definately not, she has terrible combo ability
rokimomi
Smash Lord
Dream Chaser
Smash Journeyman
My Take on the tier list is
Top
-Fox
-Captain Falcon
High
-DK
-Ness
-Kirby
Middle
-Mario
-Pikachu
-Yoshi
Low
-Luigi
Bottom
-Link
-Jigglypuff
-Samus
Although I think it should be in three categories
The splits being in between kirby and mario and link and jigglypuff
Top
-Fox
-Captain Falcon
High
-DK
-Ness
-Kirby
Middle
-Mario
-Pikachu
-Yoshi
Low
-Luigi
Bottom
-Link
-Jigglypuff
-Samus
Although I think it should be in three categories
The splits being in between kirby and mario and link and jigglypuff
greenblob
Smash Lord
Just so you guys know, the best way to say "I'm a noob!" is to say that Jiggly sucks.
Rain(ame)
Smash Champion
edit: I feel stupid for my actual post...so I'm just gonna quote what I heard at a SSB tourny.
"It's not Super Smash Brothers....it's really who has the best Pikachu"
"It's not Super Smash Brothers....it's really who has the best Pikachu"
Yep, he's the only character with a debatable position. Where would you put him ?
rokimomi
Smash Lord
Id put yoshi somewhere around Jiggs. Not quite sure on how "around" because of her godly combos as well, but still.
_kSo_
Smash Master
regardless, he can't be top tier kuz he runs too slowly and his recovery is easily edge-guard-able
if characters were hard to use and that made them low tier, then i guess since fox is hard to use in melee, he shouldnt be top tier? no, but i guess the tier list in melee is much better defined than the tier list in 64
First, forgive me if this has already been addressed -- I've read many of but NOT all of the 48 pages on this thread.
People have been saying a lot that "skill > tier" and "just because one player's link can beat another player's pikachu it doesn't mean pikachu isn't still a higher tier" etc.
My question then: what exactly does the tier ranking mean, if anything?
Does the list mean "this is how good the characters are for people who aren't very good at the game"? We've clearly established that it DOESN'T mean "this is how good the characters are for people who have mastered the game." People who have mastered the game (Isai) seem to really like beating people with Link and Donkey Kong.
Does the list mean "this is how easy the characters are to learn"?
"This is a ranking of character statistics that don't determine match outcome"?
Tell me, how exactly does one define the tier system.
People have been saying a lot that "skill > tier" and "just because one player's link can beat another player's pikachu it doesn't mean pikachu isn't still a higher tier" etc.
My question then: what exactly does the tier ranking mean, if anything?
Does the list mean "this is how good the characters are for people who aren't very good at the game"? We've clearly established that it DOESN'T mean "this is how good the characters are for people who have mastered the game." People who have mastered the game (Isai) seem to really like beating people with Link and Donkey Kong.
Does the list mean "this is how easy the characters are to learn"?
"This is a ranking of character statistics that don't determine match outcome"?
Tell me, how exactly does one define the tier system.
greenblob
Smash Lord
Basically, imagine the best Pikachu you've ever seen. Pit that against the best Link you've ever seen. Who would win?
Surri-Sama
Smash Hero
Tier system would mean the best possibul playign style (an automaticly responding bot who can reflex to any action at any time and return intsiently with the best possibul counter attack) for each char, then who wins in a fight best link vs best fox..fox wins...bets pika vs best fox...pika wins of course we dont actually have the technology (or inteligance as 99% of you people have proven) to make a bot like that so we guesstimate
P.S.: also these "tiers" dont include the fact that DI is HUGE in ssb (dont argue because i dont care) ((bad attitude i know but again i dont care)) and no matter what char you are you can DI so the level of skill+DI+knowlage .vs. Technicalnessisims of tiers....we all know what really matters
If two players of exactly equal skill were to go against each other, the one who has a higher tiered character would win the match.